[Advanced] French Revolution Mafia - Day 3

[Andrej]

Double postage.

[Andrej]

 

4. Thorum said if someone that's town doesn't have something in their role pm mentioning starvation, they should let everyone know. Peace said this was a bad idea because of the wifom it would present (which is really kind of silly as it wouldn't present much wifom at all {btw I should specify that I don't think Thorum's idea was a good one, as I HIGHLY doubt anyone would have come forward in that situation- if someone that is immune to famine, they are likely third party of some kind}). You agreed with Peace, then pointed out how you "revealed" (in this case synomonous with hinted) info from your role pm purposefully.

 

So you agree that asking someone to reveal role pm info which could potentially clear up a situation for town is a bad idea, even tho you yourself already willingly gave up role pm info to gain something. That seems like a contradiction to me.

 

The only agreeing I did with Peace in regards to Thorum is bolded below, as it was when I posted it the first time. I'm not commenting on the WIFOM stuff or about revealing, just that I agreed with his point about why assume that all players would receive bread when nothing previously had proved this one way or the other.

 

 

 

And I really mean that: if the famine wasn't mentioned in your pm, and you're a townie: come out and say so.  It would make the basel-case kinda moot.

 

That's just not gonna work.  Just creates wifom that some will want to test for test purposes only.

 

Nothing stated says the mod gave everyone bread in their role pm.  Why would you assume this?

 

Why are you providing defense for Basel? 

 

 

I agree with Peace here.

 

[Andrej]

Yikes, triple post.

[peacesells]

 

Desp - ie the baker stuff and game balance.  I don't make assumptions about balance cause I don't know all the roles nor how Dap has tweaked this role.  Until more info is there I go by what is given.

 

On the TOWN world being used globally.  That is a possibility.  But I still think that Basel slipped a bit by not having a clue what AJ meant by starving. 

 

It's not really an assumption tho. If you had never heard about let's say.... a Sensor. Upon hearing about the role, would you think that the Sensor might know exactly which people on the train were scum, instead of just how many? I'd hope not, cause that would be an incredibly overpowered role that would be nigh impossible to balance.

 

I still agree that Basel could be scum, but I think there are better candidates right now. Speaking of which, what do you think about Yates right now?

 

 

I think he's falling into the "teacher role" which is a common tool scum use. 

[dapianoplay3r]

MOD NOTE

 

ALL PARTIES CAN BE EFFECTED BY THE FAMINE

[hazelkrs1]

Well glad that's established now lol.

 

@AJ: I missed the bolded, thanks. So eh disregard point 4 I suppose. As far as the hinting at your role pm thing, I think it's both wrong to legitimately use that technique to catch scum as town, and to use the guise of using that technique as scum. Tho I suppose considering the mod of this game ALSO got MK'ed in that game for the same offence, he probably views it differently lol.

 

Honestly, my views on mafia and its decorum have changed a LOT over the past year or so. There's a lot of things that I used to find acceptable that now seem underhanded to me, and in general I think focusing on the things you SHOULD focus on in mafia has elevated my play somewhat. Worrying too much about theme, mechanics, or little tricks like hinting at your pm or stuff like that keeps you from being able to focus on the REAL meat and potatoes of this game: trying to read people and use logic and intuition to "solve" the puzzle that is each and every game. Case in point- I used to be cool with mass claims, even promoted them in some instances. Now I find that to be a fairly cheap maneuver, and am only open to resorting to that if town has been steamrolled so far and needs any bit of help to have a chance of coming back.

[Basel Gill]

I suppose I should clear up that I did get the bread and starving stuff in my PM, but AJ's post about starving came so soon after dinnertime that it reminded me more of what I'd just eaten for real. I'll check back in tonight.

 

I'm still feeling strongest about Thorum and Peace (in that order of stronger feel first.)

[michellem]

 

Apologies for my abscense; although I was not hungover yesterday, exhaustion from the last month came and kicked me in the ass and rendered me utterly useless. I gotta look over the last two pages again, as I've only skimmed them, but for now it feels more like town on town for me.

 

Which interactions specifically?

 

 

Oh gee, what had happened I wonder? The game was sooo big, I guess it's really hard to understand what I was talking about /sarcasm

 

The Peace/Des/Yates-debate, d'uh.

 

*nodnod* The 'it' is vague just a little

 

Look who's talking. Wanna come with some game thoughts yourself instead of just subtly poking at me?

 

 

*nodnod* The 'it' is vague just a little

 

This post gives me a town-vibe from Hallia btw.

 

 

 

Because her agreeing with my question of Mish tells me that her thoughts are in-line with mine, which is a good sign considering my alignment.

 

 

Lol. That is priceless. Linking yourself hard to Hallia, and why would you do that unless you know she is town? And the only way for you to know is... If you are mafia. So you are using her to make yourself look good. And potentially make her a target by linking you together so strongly if you get lynched before her. Scum.

 

 

Vote AJ

 

 

And @ Peace, Des, Yates... Meh I don't have the brain capacity to deal with the newer developments there. AJ is more obvious.

[michellem]

Ooops.

 

Unvote vote AJ

[Thorum]

AJ = Andrej ?

 

We have an Elf playing that hasn't really contributed yet (unless I miss something).

 

Graendal's Favorite 's absence is as-always. Will probably get modkilled after this day. Just one question for you: why sign up for game after game if you never interact with the other players?

 

 

Mish, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're voting Andrej because he thinks he isn't alone in his opinion on that post of yours?

[Yates]

 

 

Did I say you were?

Let's not split hairs - it was implied.

 

 

It's not what I was implying.  I won't speak for Desp though.   I said exactly what I meant.

 

Retracted. I mistakenly believed you had agreed with his assertion that I was going after the "easy lynch" on Thorum.

[michellem]

 

Mish, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're voting Andrej because he thinks he isn't alone in his opinion on that post of yours?

 

No, I'm voting AJ because he on purpose links himself very strongly to Hallia. Wich I see way more mafia motivations for than town motivations.

 

And yes, AJ = Andrej.

[Hallia]

Because her agreeing with my question of Mish tells me that her thoughts are in-line with mine, which is a good sign considering my alignment.

; . ; I want to believe you're just agreeing with me and not buddying, my San Diego buddy

 

Desp - ie the baker stuff and game balance.  I don't make assumptions about balance cause I don't know all the roles nor how Dap has tweaked this role.  Until more info is there I go by what is given.

 

On the TOWN world being used globally.  That is a possibility.  But I still think that Basel slipped a bit by not having a clue what AJ meant by starving. 

 

Glad this got solved as I was reading, because I was about to say debating it's just bringing in WIFOM until we get a mod answer.

[Thorum]

 debating it's just bringing in WIFOM until we get a mod answer.

 

²

 

Which is exactly why I haven't replied to anything for most of the day

[Hallia]

What's the worst that can happen? :gets lynched:

[Yates]

Soooo many things wrong with this post.

 

1. Occam's razor is a dumb concept to use in mafia. It's generally a good idea not to make too many assumptions, but figuring out who the mafia could be is rarely a simple solution.

Just because you claim you don't believe in Occam's razor doesn't make it "dumb." The only thing "dumb" in this argument is how you call it "dumb" then go on to agree with it "in general" [as per the bolded].

 

2. I could give two craps about your point system.

Noted. How would you prefer I alert you [and the Town] to statements you make that are wrong, dumb, or scummy?

 

3. Nice try trying to pigeonhole me into a scum hole just because I didn't fetch an example of Thorum's meta for you lol

I'm not your lapdog. I don't have to fetch examples of other games for you just to prove that I'm town. Im not the only one who said that stuff about Thorum's meta. If you don't buy it for lack of evidence, then just disregard it. Meta reads aren't really that reliable anyhow.

I agree. You aren't my lapdog. What you are, though, is someone that made a statement that should be verifiable. You told me I was wrong to pursue the Thorum lynch because he is easily mislynched. That implies that you have meta knowledge on Thorum that suggests he his easy lynch bait. Therefore, you have the burden of proof if you want me to accept that argument as a valid reason for unvoting. Since you are obviously hinting that you have meta evidence, I don't see why my asking you for it is such a hassle. Do you not have meta evidence? Is that why you are unable to provide it? This could be so easily settled with a simple link...

 

4. I NEVER said or hinted or implied in any way that my meta read on Thorum was "fact". You sir are completely pulling that shite out your rear.

When you say "Thorum is too easy of a lynch most the time" while we are discussing our perspective lynch choices, what am I supposed to think? That you said it but that you don't believe it to be a "fact?"

 

Imma come back to this point in a sec, but you link me and Peace in omgus fashion, yet contradict yourself on this type of reasoning in the same post. You say that Peace can't make the link between you and Basel without a flip on Basel... yet you yourself link me and Peace? Hypocrite much?

Not really. Peace tied himself to you when he agreed with your "Double chainsaw" speculation. The "potential scum buddies" comment is clearly hyperbole. The difference here is that I'm not building a case around your interaction and am instead defending myself against two people making the same absurd accusation. Clearly not the same thing.

 

Again, blatantly scummy things here.

 

1. You link me and Peace as apparent teammates, then quote that post and say people shouldn't look for "teamtells" without a flip. How are you okay with that blatant contradiction?!

As posted above, I'm not building a case on you based on your interaction with Peace. I am, in fact, defending myself against nonsensical speculation that you fabricated and he seemed to agree with. Not a contradiction at all.  Also, are you aware of who I am currently voting for?

 

Again with that lame points system, and again you try and force others to fetch something from outside the game, acting like the onus of proving something is on everyone else, not on you.

Point system has been discussed. I should not have included Peace in this portion, that was my misunderstanding. The onus IS on YOU, though, because you are the one speculating that I "could be" pretending not to know Thorum's meta and that I "could be" taking cues from my scum buddies in my QT and that I "could be" trying to go after the easy mislynch. Since the only allegation that is provable is that I might be the kind of person willing to go after low hanging fruit, I don't see how I'm out of line to ask you to prove this is something I would do - as EITHER alignment, really.

 

3. Such a WEAK WEAK attempt at defense with that shiz. First of all, most of us haven't had THAT much interaction at all with you, you just joined this site not too long ago. Second, your behavior in past games as a certain alignment IN NO WAY dictates EXACTLY how you will act as that alignment in the future. This is such a fail in logic I see no way you could genuinely buy it yourself. Scum abuse their meta all the time. If peeps expect me to do something as scum in one game, I will often do the opposite JUST to throw people off.

Fine. Meta isn't great. Is it better than fabricated speculation, though? This is what I'm accusing you of.

 

4. You seem to be fearmongering about your lynch a lot, which is absurd considering you're not even close to being lynched at this point. You make it seem like it should just be taken for granted that you're town, so we can "move on" to other targets apparently. This is just an outragously scummy thing to say. Being eager to "clear" yourself from the discussion is extremely antitown. If you're town, it will eventually show if you try to actively find scum.

"Fearmongering." I do not think that means what you think it means. I'm not saying "if I get lynched you are ALL going to pay and Town is going to lose so WTF!!" That would be fearmongering. Instead, I see what is obviously a bad case - which just so happens to be on myself - and I'm calling you out on it. That's not "fearmongering" that's responding to false allegations. You guys have a habit of speculating about nonsense and then getting carried away with it. I'm sure I'll be able to find an example or two if I have to but I think you know I'm right without links. So instead, I'm choosing to nip this in the bud before some other derp asks "well why didn't you respond to this 20 pages ago? Why you dodge??"

 

Or perhaps you mean to say that Town doesn't defend themselves? I hope this isn't what you are stating.

 

Sooo many scumtells from him. [1]If you don't fetch whatever evidence he asked from you for something, you must be scum. [2]If you fos him for something, you must be scum. [3]Trying to use meta in his own defense, and tragically at that. Trying to fearmonger people away from fos'ing him, plain and simple. [4]Yates wouldn't play this shifty as town. Dude is obviscum.

So let's break it down:

1. Asking for evidence from someone who made a claim has been scummy since when?

2. Asking for clarification on a fabricated case has been scummy since when?

3. Holding someone accountable for false speculation has been scummy since when?

4. Again you make a meta claim about me while: A. claiming meta reads "aren't really that reliable" and B. not providing meta to support your meta claim. I'd ask for you to prove this but you can't and wont. "Hypocrite much?" [TM Desp Enterprises - all rights reserved.]

 

 

 

I think he's falling into the "teacher role" which is a common tool scum use.

Any chance it's because I'm actually a mentor in an ongoing game and it's carrying over?? Just a thought...

 

Also, you mean like this?

Honestly, my views on mafia and its decorum have changed a LOT over the past year or so. There's a lot of things that I used to find acceptable that now seem underhanded to me, and in general I think focusing on the things you SHOULD focus on in mafia has elevated my play somewhat. Worrying too much about theme, mechanics, or little tricks like hinting at your pm or stuff like that keeps you from being able to focus on the REAL meat and potatoes of this game: trying to read people and use logic and intuition to "solve" the puzzle that is each and every game. Case in point- I used to be cool with mass claims, even promoted them in some instances. Now I find that to be a fairly cheap maneuver, and am only open to resorting to that if town has been steamrolled so far and needs any bit of help to have a chance of coming back.

[Yates]

Plus, the reasoning on Despo's theory makes no sense.

What does this mean?

 

"In character ploy?" What does that mean?

Do you mean when I hand waved Basel's statement as an "in character joke" or are you asking about something else? If you are talking about my statement, all I was saying is knowing this is a famine game means his statement is null. That said, I did ask him to clarify in post 56.

 

Actually, still waiting on that.

 

Also, why would you provide Basil an excuse of any kind. Let the man answer his own accusations.

Point taken. I was too busy selling my pony to realize Basel needed to respond of his own accord.

[Andrej]

 

 

Apologies for my abscense; although I was not hungover yesterday, exhaustion from the last month came and kicked me in the ass and rendered me utterly useless. I gotta look over the last two pages again, as I've only skimmed them, but for now it feels more like town on town for me.

 

 

Which interactions specifically?

 

Oh gee, what had happened I wonder? The game was sooo big, I guess it's really hard to understand what I was talking about /sarcasm

 

The Peace/Des/Yates-debate, d'uh.

 

*nodnod* The 'it' is vague just a little

 

 

Look who's talking. Wanna come with some game thoughts yourself instead of just subtly poking at me?

 

 

*nodnod* The 'it' is vague just a little

 

 

This post gives me a town-vibe from Hallia btw.

 

 

Because her agreeing with my question of Mish tells me that her thoughts are in-line with mine, which is a good sign considering my alignment.

 

 

 

Lol. That is priceless. Linking yourself hard to Hallia, and why would you do that unless you know she is town? And the only way for you to know is... If you are mafia. So you are using her to make yourself look good. And potentially make her a target by linking you together so strongly if you get lynched before her. Scum.

 

 

Vote AJ

 

 

And @ Peace, Des, Yates... Meh I don't have the brain capacity to deal with the newer developments there. AJ is more obvious.

Ew. This is how you come back into the game, seriously?

 

I've got about 3 times the amount of posts you do and that's the one thing you try to spin on me? I explained previously how I got a town-read on her. Generally I find it good when I agree with players, it shows we are thinking alike and tells me we are coming from the same place. I wasn't the only one to pick up on your generalization post. Your sarcasm and defensive tone are bad too. There were plenty other interactions outside of the 3 amigos you named.

 

unvote vote Mish

 

The only thing 'obvious' is your apathy to actually participate. Your lack of comment on anything else tells me you simply skimmed the thread looking for something to vote on and have now latched onto that so you have a vote on the books.

 

Day 1 lynch right here people.

[GoldeneyesND]

I'm getting a town read on AJ and Peace; scum reads on Mish and Despo at the moment from the current interactions. I will post quotes when I get back home.

[Andrej]

I suppose I should clear up that I did get the bread and starving stuff in my PM, but AJ's post about starving came so soon after dinnertime that it reminded me more of what I'd just eaten for real. I'll check back in tonight.

 

I'm still feeling strongest about Thorum and Peace (in that order of stronger feel first.)

Lol that must've been a good dinner. Are these town or scum reads?

[Andrej]

 

Because her agreeing with my question of Mish tells me that her thoughts are in-line with mine, which is a good sign considering my alignment.

 

; . ; I want to believe you're just agreeing with me and not buddying, my San Diego buddy

Don't worry my fun-in-the-sun friend

 

My intentions and motivations are legit. Mish is trying (and failing) to spin it in a bad way. Why isn't she suspicious of anyone else giving their opinions on reads? I'm not the first player to mention town-reading someone. It's bogus.

[LilyElizabeth]

I have to admit, Mish is looking scummy. I usually don't agree when people say she is, but it really does look like she's just trying to say something, anything, to look like she's in the game. I do that as confused town, so that might be it, but it feels like something more this time. 

 

Vote Mish

[Thorum]

Final thoughts before signing off for the weekend (yes, I had to work 13 hours straight today :( )

- Mish is unusually active.

- agreeing with other people is NOT a scumtell, however many times you`ve been told it is

- who`s elf and where is he/she???

 

See y`all Monday!

[Thorum]

Also, the famine means imho that we should be using every minute of every day and night. No room for inactivity or quick lynches.

[Hallia]

I agree with you there Thorum. I normally get scum vibes from you but not so far this game. You can be town for now