[Advanced] French Revolution Mafia - Day 3

[Turin Turambar]

Now, another direction I'm very interested in going in is Golden/Turin. It annoys me very much that Golden asked to be replaced. I'm gonna have to give Turin some time to feel him out and if they indeed are mafia he'll probably act very nice now to make up for all the mistakes Golden did. Those two (Lily and GoldenTurin) were my strongest mafia reads and I still stand by them.

 

Double serving of OMGUS

 

Question: are you suspect of this slot because of my posts or golden's. Percentages please.

 

Why does it annoy you that Golden asked to be replaced? point out his mistakes for me please and at what time you first became suspicious of him(me).

 

Are you saying that Lily and Golden were your strongest mafia reads before the game got paused? 

 

 

Hmmm.....

[Hallia]

For your indepth scum hunting, I dub thee town Lil.  For those saying something about myself and AJ, I was leaning towards him being the town one in between him and Mish.  I'm not so sure about her.

[Alanna]

I totally thought the "Reponse to Alanna" part of your post was directed at me and I was soooooo confused. Then I figured it out. Lol.

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

Unvote, vote AJ. My scum read on Thorum is producing nothing today. However, AJ has been linking himself to Hally and a re-read focusing on him gave me the creepy crawly feeling. That unvote by Peace makes me wonder if he was trying to derail the AJ train once it got to a certain point.

 

If you are convinced I am scum...why not just vote me and stop using me as a basis to vote others?

 

 

Voting you at this point would be a total outlier vote, and would be totally useless to town. I went with the scummiest person out of the ones I think actually stand a chance of being lynched at this point in the voting. I think Des is town, he is just being Des. Since I have scum reads on you and AJ, and AJ is much closer to being lynched, it helps town more for me to vote him. Have plenty of fear, cause I will remember you for future day phases.

 

"Being Des" =

 

This was a post by Basel that I really didn't like(actually the nested quote as well) It looks like a bit of Despo defense. I was hoping to get to ask why He thought Despo was town because I still think he was mafia.

 

The nested quote that AJ gave him a creepy crawly feeling. This means nothing without anything to say what caused it. It is just a gut feeling I guess. But that was also the wording he used when he was voting Thorum earlier. Twice in one game day is probably at least once too many.

 

The last threat to Peace is kinda ridiculous IMO. matybe just false bravado, I dunno.

[Alanna]

That was @ Turin, btw.

[keyholder21]

 

 

Official Vote Count:

 

Alanna (1) - peace

Mish (2) - Alanna, Lily

Lily (2) - Mish, Pral

 

 

Not Voting: Everyone else (sorry, this mod is tired. I'll do another count in about 8 hours with all the nonvoter names. Unless dap beats me to it).

 

 

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

 

Deadline: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140110T17&p0=22&msg=New+Day+1

[Alanna]

I guess I'm partly with Basel there, because both times I read through the thread I got massive scum vibes off A.J. It was for several particular posts, although I can't actually remember what they are now. I think part of it was him sort of flip-flopping on Mish, especially with the whole "town-slip" thing. I still think he was probably scum. As for Despo, I wouldn't say I thought he was town - frankly I just had no clue on him. He seemed like usual Despo I remember. Yates, not so much, pretty sure he was town.

[peacesells]

Yates had the weakest reason to vote Despo between the two.  Not sure how you have a town read on him vs AJ.

[John E. Kelley]

Stop being dense. Des was Town, he copy-pasted his role pm. Debating his alignment is ridiculous.

[Turin Turambar]

Last official VC before tactical thermo-nuclear dive goes off in thread. Lily had just switched from Mish to Despo. 

Official Vote Count:

Yates (1) - Hallia
Thorum (1) - Basel
Mish (1) - golden
Elf (1) - Thorum
Lily (1) - Mish
AJ (3) - des, Peace, Ishy
Des (3) - AJ, Yates, Lily
Basel (1) - Elf

Not Voting (3) - Krak, GF, pral

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140107T09&p0=22&msg=Day+1


23 hours until deadline.

GF follows onto Des. putting him in the lead.

 

Vote Des, by previous case.

 

Peace unvotes AJ, putting Despo 2 in front

UNVOTE

 

Basel switches to AJ following Mish's logic and using that less than stellar(IMO) gut read to keep the trains close.

Unvote, vote AJ. My scum read on Thorum is producing nothing today. However, AJ has been linking himself to Hally and a re-read focusing on him gave me the creepy crawly feeling. That unvote by Peace makes me wonder if he was trying to derail the AJ train once it got to a certain point.

 

Peace vote Basel. 

How about we all lynch Basel who is the obvious scum today?

 

VOTE BASEL

So at that point it is Despo with 4 votes, AJ with 3 and Basel with 2. The others all only have single votes. It looks like these are only 3 real candidates at that point in time. 

 

Despo is who I would have switched to since it looked like the Mish train was going nowhere. I had Despo as mafia anyway. 

 

Could everyone that wasn't voting one of those three at the time say who they would have voted if the thread hadn't disintegrated and why. Or even if you were on one train or another if you were going to switch who do you think you would have switched to.

[Turin Turambar]

I guess I'm partly with Basel there, because both times I read through the thread I got massive scum vibes off A.J. It was for several particular posts, although I can't actually remember what they are now. I think part of it was him sort of flip-flopping on Mish, especially with the whole "town-slip" thing. I still think he was probably scum. As for Despo, I wouldn't say I thought he was town - frankly I just had no clue on him. He seemed like usual Despo I remember. Yates, not so much, pretty sure he was town.

AJ didn't flip flop on Mish tho. He kept his vote there during the "scumslip" incident. It was Despo saying that he flip flopped. All AJ said was that he saw what Yates was saying. I kind of thought that was a stretch as it had been pretty much agreed that all the PMs said the same thing with regard to bread.

 

If you could find those posts and what they meant to you it would be helpful. At least to me I think. No rush. no pressure. I would understand if you think it lower priority.

[Turin Turambar]

Stop being dense. Des was Town, he copy-pasted his role pm. Debating his alignment is ridiculous.

 

Did he? Are you positive of that? I am not.

[Alanna]

I will find those posts, I'd like to recall myself what about AJ was giving me scum vibes. But it will have to wait til tomorrow as I'm going to bed now.

[John E. Kelley]

 

Stop being dense. Des was Town, he copy-pasted his role pm. Debating his alignment is ridiculous.

 

 

Did he? Are you positive of that? I am not.

Yes, he did. He was vanilla town.

[Pralaya]

As I mentioned earlier, discussing the alignment of dead members is just creating wifom confusion. Anyway, each of them giving the reads shouldn't be a problem. I felt Yates was the only scum among the three, Des and AJ were town. 

[michellem]

[

 

Mish, you're trying too hard. I did give my thoughts on you. I don't like the way you keep trying to turn nothing into something. It looks like you are saying "lynch anybody but me" or in other words, flailing. 

 

And I don't go around being a bitch (didn't call you one, by the way, so don't go there) in mafia. I speak gently for the most part. Haven't you ever noticed that about me? I find that hard to believe.

 

I've asked you twice what's the case on me, Lily. The first time you didn't respond, and I have yet to see you respond this time either. You went from calling me scum to calling me an info lynch. That pings. It seems like you are just sticking to a vote on me without any good reason.

 

Response to me:

1.) My point was you were avoiding taking a stand on them BEFORE they were killed. It was just a series of "gah, it does my head in" and such. We won't ever KNOW what they were(at least until the game is over) but I do think it is important to see where people stand on them. And before we see anymore flips. I stated my opinion. Why won't you give yours? It isn't like you can be linked to them any more than you were before.

 

2.) . Using meta as a defense. You do not get to do it. that is for others to determine. You are just trying to sluff it off like it is nothing(much like your cases)

 

3.) Tunneling: that is an interesting choice of words. I am often called for tunneling. TBH I don't buy it. I see it as a conviction in my belief. I actually thought that much of golden's case on you was worth looking into. There has been NO evidence to date that shows you are obviously town so why are you above suspicion? 

 

Response to Alanna: How do you know what he was willing to consider? I don't. you yourself said that if you believe you are right that you shouldn't back down. So why should he, or me, or anyone else just because you are the person being suspected. NO ONE is above suspicion at this point in the game. 

 

 

Pral/Lily stuff:

You reacted because Pral voted her? What did that have to do with anything? If He hadn't voted would you have let it go?

Why are you an easy vote? Why was her vote weak? If you are an easy vote that means there must be some justification for voting you.

I think that the sympathy about RL happened before the voting. Could also be wrong about that. 

Fence sitting. What was your take on the biggest blow up of the game? You were embroiled in there through a portion of that. Nothing to say on any of it now?

 

 

First off: The sentence in my post that says "Well Pral voted Lily's first vote on me wich is what made me react to her in the first place." it should say "Well Pral QUOTED". Pral's vote had nothing to do with it. He simply quoted the post I was gonna go back and look for. Sorry about that.

 

I say that off the trains going at the time Lily voted me, I think I was the easiest one to move a vote to. My "town on town" post was vague and then I went out hard on something I knew probably looked weak, but that felt important to me (AJ and Hallia). Her vote was weak because her reason was "she might be confused town or mafia. So I'm gonna go with mafia". Leaving yourself an out from calling someone mafia = a weak vote in my eyes.

I'm not saying I haven't done any fencesitting. I can be hypocritical in mafia.

 

Yes, the guys were confusing me. I had a mafia read on AJ, town read on Des, slight town read on Yates, but their back and forth had points that made me doubt all three reads.

 

And I use whatever I want to defend myself. I've gotten my fair shair of flack over being a reactionary, aggresive player, so I know that's how others view me. And that's how I play, on purpose. I don't care if you don't like me saying it, it's still a fact for me.

 

I'm not above suspicioun; no-one is . But Golden's case was buildt around " an aggresive playstyle shows guilt", wich is a statement I highly disagree with. Does that mean Red i.e. is mafia in every single game? No it doesn't. I tried to tell him that, he refused to listen, and it seemed he'd decided I was mafia over my playstyle. And he showed he wasn't willing when I tried to show him these things and he ignored it. He also said I was trying to use the "townslip" Yates was talking about for cred (I never even tried to do that, I mostly ignored the talk off it), and said I seemed desperate to stall my own lynch by mentioning there was no rush to end day (wich was a response to another player). And that I said there wasn't a deadline at the time (I'd missed the post about the deadline). That was his case one me. I tried to show him how his points were wrong, he ignored me. That's show unwillingness to listen to me.

 

 

Now, another direction I'm very interested in going in is Golden/Turin. It annoys me very much that Golden asked to be replaced. I'm gonna have to give Turin some time to feel him out and if they indeed are mafia he'll probably act very nice now to make up for all the mistakes Golden did. Those two (Lily and GoldenTurin) were my strongest mafia reads and I still stand by them.

 

Double serving of OMGUS

 

Question: are you suspect of this slot because of my posts or golden's. Percentages please.

 

Why does it annoy you that Golden asked to be replaced? point out his mistakes for me please and at what time you first became suspicious of him(me).

 

Are you saying that Lily and Golden were your strongest mafia reads before the game got paused? 

 

 

Hmmm.....

 

 

Golden 100%. 

 

And it annoys me because he was one of my top two mafia reads, and a replacement throws my reads off.

 

And yes, I'm saying that they were my top two mafia reads before the game got paused. That should be pretty obvious. I was voting Lily and saying I'd ISO Golden (wich I never got the chance to because the game imploded).

 

I guess I'm partly with Basel there, because both times I read through the thread I got massive scum vibes off A.J. It was for several particular posts, although I can't actually remember what they are now. I think part of it was him sort of flip-flopping on Mish, especially with the whole "town-slip" thing. I still think he was probably scum. As for Despo, I wouldn't say I thought he was town - frankly I just had no clue on him. He seemed like usual Despo I remember. Yates, not so much, pretty sure he was town.

 

If you got scum vibes of AJ, then why are you voting me? You think we were mafia together and my whole voting him for linking with Hallia was just one giant distancing move even tho it was guaranteed to land us both in hot water? Doesn't make sense to me. FoS at this. 

 

Could everyone that wasn't voting one of those three at the time say who they would have voted if the thread hadn't disintegrated and why. Or even if you were on one train or another if you were going to switch who do you think you would have switched to.

 

I was going to case and vote Golden. If I'd had to move my vote for consolidation, I would have preferred AJ.

[Alanna]

 

 

If you got scum vibes of AJ, then why are you voting me? You think we were mafia together and my whole voting him for linking with Hallia was just one giant distancing move even tho it was guaranteed to land us both in hot water? Doesn't make sense to me. FoS at this.

 

Well, I'm going back to look through the thread now to see why I thought AJ was scum. Honestly, I'm getting so confused now. The Yates-Despo-AJ back and forth is something I've read through twice now and I'm still confused. This is why I think being concise is actually HELPFUL in a mafia game (if you're town, anyway). I mean, AJ's whole case against Despo, about his being a distraction - it became such a big tl;dr that it BECAME a distraction, whether he intended it to be or not. I've never played with him before (or Yates), so I don't know if that's just his playstyle or what, but. I find it confusing..

 

Anyway, going to read through again, be back in a few with my thoughts.

[Alanna]

Okay, 8 pages in right now. My current thoughts are that both AJ's and Mish's initial reasons for going at each other seem like overreactions to me. Mish jumped on AJ's comment about a town read on Hallia (which was kind of a weird comment, but my reaction was more like 'lol really?' then 'he is scum'.) But then, I didn't think Mish's initial comment that sparked the whole thing was scummy or weird either, which was when she said that everything so far seemed to be town-on-town. (I'm paraphrasing, fyi, these aren't exact words.) It was a vague comment, but she said in the same post that she was getting caught up and would post more later, so, not sure what the big deal was.

 

BTW, I'm kind of torn as to whether this is even helpful right now, being that we have a deadline coming up soonish - if anyone wants to weigh in on that. I do think that we shouldn't ignore the stuff that went on with Despo, AJ, and Yates, especially their interactions with still living players, but I also think focusing on them too much can detract from what we have going on now.

[Krakalakachkn]

Sorry, busy day yesterday, getting back to it.

[Krakalakachkn]

Placeholder vote on Lily

[Alanna]

Okay, the parts that were making me think AJ looked scummy was after Yates called Mish's "townslip." I thought he was flip-flopping on her around there; however, after re-reading it, I don't think he was. It looked weird to me because when Yates mentioned Mish had town-slipped, he immediately came in and said he saw what Yates was referring to. He even answered Yates' question about possible scum on Mish's train. This looked to me like he was agreeing that Mish must be town, even though he did not unvote and her and then continued to push for her being scum. After re-reading, I think that what he meant to say was that he caught what Yates was calling a townslip, but he never really was convinced that it was a townslip.

 

I initially thought Yates was town because I thought only a townie would go around trying to use the PMs to confirm people - to me, that would be dumb to do if you're scum because you couldn't know for sure what a town PM looked like. I just don't understand why you would assume that all town PMs are going to be the same, or look the same, or have the same wording or the same bread loaves or whatever - or why you would assume that mafia PMs don't look the same. Not only do I also not like using tactics like that, but it makes no sense to me. Why would you think that could work, whether you're scum or town?

 

Anyhow. I guess it doesn't really matter now, so, rant over. I'm going to read through so more - not sure what else to do at this point.

[Alanna]

Stop being dense. Des was Town, he copy-pasted his role pm. Debating his alignment is ridiculous.

 

Given that it has been mod confirmed that all role PMs were the same, except for role/alignment, I think you're the one being dense, Ishy. I don't know if Despo knew the PMs were all the same before he posted that, but even if he didn't, it might have been a risk he took by just posting his own PM with a different role/alignment. It is hardly confirmed that Despo was town.

[peacesells]

 

Stop being dense. Des was Town, he copy-pasted his role pm. Debating his alignment is ridiculous.

 

Given that it has been mod confirmed that all role PMs were the same, except for role/alignment, I think you're the one being dense, Ishy. I don't know if Despo knew the PMs were all the same before he posted that, but even if he didn't, it might have been a risk he took by just posting his own PM with a different role/alignment. It is hardly confirmed that Despo was town.

 

 

Well, Desp wouldn't know that though and he felt confident enough to post his.  I don't think scum would be that confident.

[Alanna]

Okay, finished reading through the second half of the thread, though I honestly skimmed a lot of the big Yates-Despo-AJ stuff about Despo being distracting or whatever. I don't think much of that is super helpful anyway.

 

To recap, right now I'm still good with a lynch on Mish. I could go with Lily if the majority wants to swing that way, but I don't like it as much as a Mish lynch. I think we're more likely to hit scum with Mish. I think her case on Lily is weak, and I would feel better about it if she would just admit that it's weak, instead of acting like it's a very clear case.

 

I did kind of check out Turin/GE since Mish brought their names up, but I found myself going back and forth a lot on GE as I read through it all. Nothing conclusive there. My other possible scum read is Ishy right now, though I don't feel super strongly about that either.

[michellem]

It might seem weak to you. It's a clear case to me. There's other votes I could have done that would have been better/seemed more convincing (like voting you, more people has thought your slot was scummy). I stick to my reads, and that's that.