[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

[csarmi]

VoteCount Day03#04

 

 

 

01 - Peace: -> Hoof

02 - Cloud: -> Krak

03 - Krak: -> Hoof

04 - GoldenEyes

05 - TommyRod: -> Hoof

06 - Leelou:

07 - Theodora Key:

08 - Elffern:

09 - Hally:

10 - BFG:

11 - Via:

12 - Nolder: -> Krak

13 - BlackHoof: -> Krak

14 - Turin

 

 

Krak - 3 - Hoof, Cloud, Nolder

Hoof - 3 - Peace, Tommy, Krak

 

---

Not voting: Key, BFG, Via

5 to lynch.

No deadline set.

[csarmi]

Deadline plan is Monday evening in US time (just like this week).

[Elaevia]

That's a nice way of summing up there key  - I like that you've put what you see as scummyness and townyness and then draw your conclusion - I may steal that format in the future of you don't mind!

[BFG]

Sorry, I'm going to be sparse for another few hours.

 

 

 

EDITED TO ADD: I mean until tomorrow evening.

[Elaevia]

edited loadsa stuff out below for clarity:

 

 

Krak, can you explain your voting pattern statement in regards to me?

 

First on Golden, prime on Hallia.  No foolproof tell or anything, just wanted to note it.  But Cloud's voting record is also pretty suspect with that hammer on Hallia and second to last on Golden.

 

 

 

I disagree that Cloud's hammer was scummy: Hallia was that only person that was going to be lynched that day. Yeah, maybe it was a bit hasty (there was 6-9 hours or something to go) but it fits in with Cloud asking for deadlines as someone who is keen for the game to be moving (or cloud was being impatient )

 

when some-one is so close to being lynched I beleive that it is the town thing to do to make sure that we secure the lynch and get the information - Hallia was about earlier on so if she had an important role to claim she would have done it. As she was vanilla I don't think if she had claimed that it would have changed anything.

 

And as it is such a towny thing to do I generally see it as null - as it is so easy for mafia to hide in.

[Krakalakachkn]

It was more because he was so insistent that she was town. There was plenty of time, if he was so sure then why hammer? What's the rush? If he is town and is so sure, sit back and wait to see who hammers and what reason they give.

[peacesells]

It was more because he was so insistent that she was town. There was plenty of time, if he was so sure then why hammer? What's the rush? If he is town and is so sure, sit back and wait to see who hammers and what reason they give.

 

He did have a funny way of voting her with that "I told you so" before she flipped.  That was Cloud right?

[Krakalakachkn]

Yeah. To be fair to Cloud, she gave a "go town" cheer before the flip and after the hammer.

[Krakalakachkn]

I don't buy it though because he's been adamant all game.

[Andrej]

Deadline plan is Monday evening in US time (just like this week).

 

Which means you all will belong to me.

 

[Blackhoof]

 

 

Krak, can you explain your voting pattern statement in regards to me?

First on Golden, prime on Hallia. No foolproof tell or anything, just wanted to note it. But Cloud's voting record is also pretty suspect with that hammer on Hallia and second to last on Golden.

 

 

Krak I've highlighted Turins reads that were undecided, why did you focus on Goldens in particular?

 

 

 

 

Current thoughts on the List of Players:

• 01 - Peace: The refusal to directly state his reasons for voting elf was a bit weird but it was fairly obvious to me that he was saying that he agreed with Cloud's case against her. The snark fest with Tommy is fiesty peace. Slight town lean
• 02 - Cloud (mentored by Darthe): Severe buddying to Tommy. ("yes sir"? ) as well as chainsaw defense with regards to elf's case against Tommy. He has been quite eager to get thru D1 it appears. This is usually more evident in mafia members that have good roles they want to utilize. The "i'm excited for this game" line doesn't fly for me. When you made the comment "when are we going to lynch Turin or Hoof" there wasn't much hoofie discussion yet. I was wondering why you picked him to put in there with me. You were following Tommy onto me so that I get but why hoofie at that point? or was Darthe pulling your strings there like with the Leelou is town thing? Mafia #2
• 03 - Krak (mentored by Verb) not much here yet to me. seemed to be primarily peanut gallery type posts. Undecided.
• 04 - GoldenEyes (mentored by Despothera) his vote on elf came across as a bad Despo impersonation. Like he wanted to sound like Depso but didn't want to put in the effort to multi quote. Just looks like lazy play so far. undecided tho.
• 05 - TommyRod: Mafia #1. attempting to lead the town. advocated the "look at inactives" it works every time. Only the SithMafia deal in absolutes. A few other things. Is Cloud more pro-town than you are? You are constantly defending each other and working together too much.
• 06 - Leelou (mentored by Wombat) Are you still voting Nolder? You accused me of parking my vote on Tommy but you put your vote on Nolder before he even checked in. maybe hypocrisy is the new black. And if I am tunneling and trying to get him voted out for whatever reason my vote isn't parked. Added to the Tommy defender team. The little shot Night 0 could easily be a distance ploy. If Tommy is mafia like I think then she could very well be also. mafia lean.
• 07 - Theodora (mentored by Key) Only thing I recall is her early call out of Hoof for claiming Hoof... Were you serious about that? I wasn't sure if it was sarcasm or not... Undecided
• 08 - Elffern (mentored by Dap) The interaction with Tommy early was interesting. I think she was trying to say that She found Tommy pushing for everyone to play his game off. The not voting until later in the day especially on D1 is classic Dap from about 9 months ago. That she has adopted it is reasonable I guess since she has been away for a while. town lean
• 09 - Hally (mentored by Yates) More posting please ( yates must be turning over in his grim reaper hut) Incomplete.
• 10 - BFG - Innocent Child -Back away form the alcohol and post more please. you are the only person we know is trying to help town win so all input and thoughts are valuable
• 11 - dansyc (mentored by Kaylee) ABSENT Waiting for replacement
• 12 - Nolder: didn't like his advice to BFG. Also didn't like that he called cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1. There is no such thing as pressuring without the intent to lynch. it is like saying that you are voting someone to pressure them. If the votee doesn't think that you are serious then they will just ignore your vote. Also has been fairly reasonable which is usually a sign of mafia Nolder. slight edge to mafia lean.
• 13 - BlackHoof: was behaving with just the one silly Blackhoof post which caught Thea's attention. Leaning town still at present
• 14 - Turin (advised by Pray) Town. but only I know that at present.

Mafia: Tommy, Cloud, maybe nolder, maybe Leelou.

 

Town: BFG, Turin.

 

. 23 hour day at present. Good Night now

This post is crap.

 

 

A) Feels need to include himself in reads, like we believe that he's town based on his own insistence. I love that last part, "but I only know that at present." That suggests two things: 1) He isn't sure he's town, and 2) He doesn't believe BFG is town.

B) Weak read on Golden

C) Has Cloud as scum #2, and yet hates on Nolder for "calling cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1" in the same post.

D) There is completely such a thing as "pressuring without the intent to lynch." I've done it so many times that myself alone makes you as incorrect as Nixon (or whoever) when he declared Marijuana a gateway drug. To suggest otherwise is naive at best.

It was his only read that didn't have anything tangible. It was literally just a meta-meta read on Despo and was completely worthless.

Well that was a good response from via, she certainly is analysing. It is a start.

 

Since elf is town, that leaves cloud, tommy, via, krak and peace.

Two of them must be mafia.

 

Out of all, I think thst I will go for krak

##vote krak

After you had me back at null? This smacks of scum.

 

Well I know what side that puts me on.

 

##Vote Krak

 

That was quite possibly the worst move you could have made. Seriously the worst move (besides voting BFG).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nolder & BFG, what do you guys think of this angle? Do you think it's valid, or should I drop it?

I still think Tommy, Krak, or Hoof is scum. In my experience when you're scum and giving reads you generally name at least one of your scumbuddies as scum.

Krak is mafia. Tommy is town. Hoof can still go either way. Quite simple actually :P

 

 

##Vote Krak

I didn't ask you.

 

 

 

Elf's D1 posts come accross as town to me - she hasn't posted to the same amount since (dropping off of activity would usually draw my attention a bit) but we know why that was, so that turns into a null - so going with a town read on elf.

Knowing elf was town and this came before the MK, makes me shift Via back toward town. So I guess I'm at null to a little town on her. IMO, Elf would be an easy vote for mafia. She was gone awhile and BFG, who is known as town, was already voting her.

You should look at the reasoning Via uses to declare Effie town.

 

If you look hard enough you will notice that she doesn't mention any. She only says that she has started posting less which doesn't say anything about her allignment.

 

How can you find this town behavior?

If I look hard enough? I can read, thanks.

 

I already explained why I thought Via looked town due to that. Also, you are misrepping Via. Did you actually read what she said? She did give a reason and it wasn't due to elf's drop in activity.

 

Elaboration that you asked for, however, would be welcome from her.

We don't have to wait before the deadline hits to decide on a lynch you know.

Tom, what do you think about Via?

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm fine with either a Cloud of Hoof lynch. Pretty sure both are scum, rated in that order. What has Cloud really done this game other than harp on me and faux scum hunt? Sure he was on Golden's lynch, but I'm not clearing him for that. Looks like he's getting giddy ever since BFG posted his math read and Elf was modkilled.

 

 

 

I'm fine with going for Hoof today though. ##Vote Hoof.

You are the scummier of the group to me.

 

Cloud? Really? That is bad. feelibg better about my vote now.

 

 

Tom, what do you think about Via?

 

I had Hallia and Via linked together when I made the case for Hallia being scum. I've only skimmed Via's recent posts and her reasoning seems much more transparent than it was earlier in the game. I will have to re-read the entire game to see the trend, something I haven't had time to do yet. If you have something either for or against her please link me to it so I can be made aware.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

VoteCount Day01#17

 

 

01 - Peace: -> Elf -> Golden

02 - Cloud: -> Elf -> Turin -> Hoof -> Turin -> Nolder -> NULL -> Krak -> Golden

03 - Krak: -> Cloud -> Hoof -> NULL

04 - GoldenEyes: -> Elf -> Via -> NULL -> Nolder

05 - TommyRod: -> Peace -> Turin -> Hoof -> NULL -> Nolder -> Hally -> Golden

06 - Leelou: -> Nolder -> Hally -> Nolder -> Golden

07 - Theodora: -> Golden

08 - Elffern: -> Peace -> NULL -> Nolder -> Golden

09 - Hally: -> Golden -> Nolder -> NULL -> Krak

10 - BFG: -> Golden -> NULL -> Nolder

11 - Via: -> Golden

12 - Nolder: -> Hally -> NULL -> Theo

13 - BlackHoof: -> Peace -> Nolder

14 - Turin: -> Tommy -> NULL -> Krak -> Golden

 

 

Golden - 8 - Peace, Thea, Via, Turin, Tommy, Leelou, Cloud, Elf

Nolder - 3 - BFG, Hoof, Golden

Krak - 1 - Hally

Theo - 1 - Nolder

Not voting: Krak

8 to lynch.

Deadline: 2013-12-29, 20:00 GMT - this is final, no extension will be given

Countdown: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20131229T21&p0=50&msg=ChristmasMM-D1

That's a lynch. Scene incoming.

 

 

That's a lynch!

 

Day 2 Final Count

 

Krak (1) - ElfHally (7) - Tommy, Hoof, Peace, Krak, Key, Leelou, Cloud

Peace (1) - Nolder

Elf (1) - Hally

Not voting: BFG, Via

 

To answer Tommy's first question. Hoof is the answer.

 

Not on Goldens lynch. Was on Hally's lynch. Has been opportunistic all game.

Nolder was pretty scummy at the time. BG was also on Nolder's train at the time. So?

Tommy was also on Hallia's lynch, as were you and other townies, bad argument.

 

Yeah, being on Nolder instead of Golden doesn't look too hot in retrospect; nor does following me quickly onto Hallia; mafia would know Hallia was town, easy lynch. Bah. Going back to my earliest notes, which I think will provide the best detail now that several alignments are known. Let's peruse:

 

 

Weak opening in #8 and #11. I'm not a fan of the cthulu jokey stuff. Post #51 just reeks of bullpoop trying-too-hard-to-be-harmless stuff. He outright ignores any attempts at discussing the game so far. He's still spammy in #85, but what pings me about this is his comment "normally you would be on the money" regarding him being scummy. Who the hell writes a comment like this? It's too self conscious. Votes Hallia right off the bat in D1 #92 for literally no reason. Really stupid. But what's stupider is how this reinforces the spam-party that Theo, Hoof, and Hally are having now. I'm finding it to be a little too... comfy. More spam in #102. The spam is pinging me harder now.

 

Disappears until #281 and opens with suspicion on Cloud for back-flipping on his scum read on Elf... even though that argument took up a third of the thread and was very organic. This looks like a lousy excuse to keep suspicion on Cloud. Then in that same post, defends Elf by attacking Goldeneye's vote. Well, which is it? I haven't seen Hoof defend Elf before this, so it seems like a good way to put suspicion on just about everyone involved. As he continues to do when he FOS on Peace and then votes for him. So Hoof basically appears, put suspicion on everyone involved, and then leaves. Haha, wtf?

 

And then when I make that post about low-posters being suspect... he reappears to defend himself and put suspicion on Dan. I *hate* that because Dan has zero posts, so he can't be anything but null at this point. Scum love to push mislynches onto inactives because they're easy targets. Big ping. Says one of Cloud or Peace are mafia... well no poop, you're voting for Peace? Why say "one of?"

 

---

 

Blackhoof finally starts posting in a meaningful way in #383. He’s got town reads on Tom, Elf, and thinks one of Cloud or Peace is scum. Okay. Another MQ post in #407 that thinks Peace is scummy. Seemingly continues to ignore how Cloud achieved satisfaction with Elf’s defense and uses Cloud’s questioning of Elf as “tunneling” justification to keep Cloud a suspect, but the logic behind that just isn’t there. Pingworthy. Calls out Nolder again for mentioning Krak as a scum read… this would be okay if multiple people hadn’t already done so. Feels like a bit of a followy post overall, not producing new content, and ignoring events that have already transpired within the game. This could bring Hoof back into scum territory.

 

 

Biggest points against Hoof from early game:

-Spammy opening, possibly a buddying attempt

-Voted Hallia D1 for no reason

-Snipes Cloud for changing his mind about Elf (who we know isn't a mason), but ignores the reasoning for why Cloud changed tact

-The way he attacked Golden for voting Elf is weird... considering he just got mad at Cloud for NOT attacking Elf, and Golden was scum, this could be huge

-Despite being mad at Golden and Cloud he votes for Peace at the time

-Pushes suspicion onto a player with 0 posts

-He later continues ignoring the way Cloud and Elf achieved resolution

-Makes a me-too "hey Nolder why did you mention Krak" comment that had been made repeatedly by others at that point

-Voted Nolder over Golden D1, then followed onto Hallia immediately D2

 

So we've got a history of opportunistic attacking here, an odd interaction with Golden, and reasoning that can't be followed.

 

From what I understand of the current game:

-Continues opportunistic lynching

-Continues to have difficult to follow reads

 

Sounds like a good way to start the day to me. If there's been some substantial data in the last 3-4 days that helps him, let's hear about it, because this certainly looks bad.

 

##Vote Hoof

 

mostly fair points, but you noted all this ages ago and then settled on me as null/town. why suddenly changing to be scummy?

 

 

We don't have to wait before the deadline hits to decide on a lynch you know.

 

wait up, no need to rush.

 

 

 

Hoof just always seems scummy to me. Hope that doesn't sound like an insult Hoofie.

 

no offense taken ahaha

A mixture of running out of suspects, a trend of you to not having grown more town like in the time since I wrote that summary (if this is blatantly incorrect someone should correct it), and a desire to keep things simple and use D1 pre-lynch Golden interactions as clues because he should not have had reason to believe he would get lynched on D1, so he should have made a couple mistakes or had weird interactions. We saw him saying "if Nolder flips town I'll come after you Tom" which with Nolder's reveal makes me feel pretty peachy about Nolder being town; whereas your strange early interaction with Golden and lack of a vote for him D1 is pretty glaring, on top of the fresh comments from recent play that others have made (which I admittedly haven't put research into myself). But the sum total of this information is "good scum suspect", especially as we run low on possibilities.

Some people seem to think the townness of my play improved after day 1.

I've tried to avoid defending myself this game, and it seems to have worked so far. Nornally I defend myself and get drawn into exchanges which get me lynched after I say weird things.

 

Not sure how to defend myself now even.You seem to take my night 0 stuff too seriously, it was just me having fun. Most of your observations are accurate, even if the conclusion you draw is incorrect. Objectively I probably look worse than the other options, and I don't know how I can convince you that i am town.

[csarmi]

Someone call the ambulance

There's gonna be an accident

 

I'm coming up on infra-red

There's no running that can hide you

Cause I can see in the dark

 

I'm coming up on infra-red

Forget your running I will find you

[csarmi]

Deadline: 2013-01-14, 06:00GMT <-- timer will be put up with the next votecount (in the evening)

[keyholder21]

Nolder, you said you didn't really think that Krak was scummy (save for others thinking so). Is your sole reason for voting him because peace and tommy are voting hoof?

[keyholder21]

Via, who are you voting for?

[keyholder21]

Hoof, please explain the bolded, and specifically the underlined further.
 

Nolder was pretty scummy at the time. BG was also on Nolder's train at the time. So?
Tommy was also on Hallia's lynch, as were you and other townies, bad argument.

[csarmi]

VoteCount Day03#05

 

 

 

01 - Peace: -> Hoof

02 - Cloud: -> Krak

03 - Krak: -> Hoof

04 - GoldenEyes

05 - TommyRod: -> Hoof

06 - Leelou:

07 - Theodora Key:

08 - Elffern:

09 - Hally:

10 - BFG:

11 - Via:

12 - Nolder: -> Krak

13 - BlackHoof: -> Krak

14 - Turin

 

 

Krak - 3 - Hoof, Cloud, Nolder

Hoof - 3 - Peace, Tommy, Krak

 

---

Not voting: Key, BFG, Via

5 to lynch.

Deadline: 2013-01-14, 06:00GMT

Timer: End of Day-3

[Krakalakachkn]

@Hoof - what do you really have on Cloud that's actually beneficial to town?

[Elaevia]

I'm not voting at the moment key, but at the moment would prefer to lynch hoof - I'm not really won over by the 'I don't know how I can convince you I'm town arguement'

 

I'm not voting at the moment because me voting either Hoof or Krak would put them at L-1 ready for an easy hammer: and kinda feel that we should make the most of this discussion time while we can.

 

Also know that I've seen you post this:

 

 

Hoof, please explain the bolded, and specifically the underlined further.
 

Nolder was pretty scummy at the time. BG was also on Nolder's train at the time. So?
Tommy was also on Hallia's lynch, as were you and other townies, bad argument.

 

 

I am intrigued as to what Hoof will say: this was directed at Peace I beleive

[Blackhoof]

 

Hoof, please explain the bolded, and specifically the underlined further.

 

Nolder was pretty scummy at the time. BG was also on Nolder's train at the time. So?

Tommy was also on Hallia's lynch, as were you and other townies, bad argument.

Poorly phrased, but I meant that "you, peace, were also on that train. Several other people who are most likely townies are also on that lynch, so your point is invalid".

I was not saying that peace was a confirmed townie, along with others.

 

 

@Hoof - what do you really have on Cloud that's actually beneficial to town?

He has been scumhunting all game. Over-eager at times, but not too bad. He was right about Hallia, he was right about golden. I could ask the same of you.

[Krakalakachkn]

The two* remaining scum ladies and gentlemen!

 

 

 

 

 

 

*or 2/3

[Nolder]

Nolder, you said you didn't really think that Krak was scummy (save for others thinking so). Is your sole reason for voting him because peace and tommy are voting hoof?

No, although that helped ease my thoughts a lot.

I would have voted him anyway because it seems to me like there are several people who find him scummy and I just don't have enough town reads on him to justify holding them back. I don't really see the case to be honest but maybe that's my problem. I trust that ya'll are strong enough in your convictions here. If you're not then what the heck are we doing?

[Krakalakachkn]

No no no you were right the first time.

[Tommyrod]

Finding it hard to get up the gumption to WIM in this game. If the game goes way off the rails I will attempt to give a damn, but we seem to be in a good position right now and I don't want to put in the work if I don't have to since I have other games starting and limited IRL time to play. No offense to anyone here, I just think we will close this up handily with multiple confirmed townies (I've never seen so many in a game this small). As usual, If I notice something funky I'll point it out.

[Krakalakachkn]

WIM?

 

Multiple confirmed townies?