[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

[_CLOUD]

 

Let's just get this over with and see her flip.

 

 

##Vote Hallia

 

Dude, let's be honest here, there was no chance that anyone else would have gotten lynched after these last few pages. I didn't feel like delaying the inevitable anymore.

 

Probably not, but didn't stop you on Day 1 from trying to lynch Krak instead of Nolder in the last few hours.  Additionally you've missed getting pre flip reactions from Via, Tommy and myself. 

 

Shrugs

 

onto Night 1

 

 

You are confirmed town and Tommy already gave his thoughts regarding Hallia. You are right that I missed Via's thoughts about Hallia though. In any case you can't compare her train to the one on Nolder. There has been a lot of discussion going on during Day 2 and cases have been laid out against several people, and yet the person who got the most votes at the start of Day 2 was the one who got lynched. Most people have already made up their mind about her being mafia, and I knew after quickly reading the last few pages (which I will give my thoughts on tomorrow after I get some sleep) that her death was inevitable.

[csarmi]

It is now night 2. New Deadline: 2013-01-07, 15:00GMT

Timer: End of Night-2

 

Night has a fixed length. It means that it doesn't matter when the actions come in. Also, a logical consequence is that night actions can be changed anytime you like, as long as the deadline hasn't passed yet.

 

In the future, please refrain from posting at dawn (the period between night deadline and night scene posted) and dusk (the period between hammer accepted and day scene posted).

 

You'll find all important announcements in the first posts, including this one.

[Elaevia]

 

Let's just get this over with and see her flip.

 

 

##Vote Hallia

 

Dude, let's be honest here, there was no chance that anyone else would have gotten lynched after these last few pages. I didn't feel like delaying the inevitable anymore.

 

Probably not, but didn't stop you on Day 1 from trying to lynch Krak instead of Nolder in the last few hours.  Additionally you've missed getting pre flip reactions from Via, Tommy and myself. 

 

Shrugs

 

onto Night 1

 

 

 

yep, missed my reactions, and now I have to go back over it all again so soon

[Blackhoof]

Well, I am good with a Krak lynch tomorrow.

 

Will post some thoughts after work.

[Elaevia]

here was quite a lot of distracting posts: the krak-cloud thing and the peace-nolder thing, a good bit of spamming in the middle, and some anger at DM as well

 

put together it meant the only person that really got any attention was hallia.

[Nolder]

Nolder. I suggest you ask for a replacement if you can't handle the game.

Peace you are the one who is having a personal issue with me not the other way around.

I'm not subbing out of the game, either because you think I'm cheating or because you're just pissed at me, and if that bothers you you're welcome to take your own advice.

[Nolder]

Here are ALL of Hallia's posts in this game.

You did what I could not.

Well done.

[Nolder]

All of Via's posts. Without any commentary.

Wow. Can I commission you to do Goldeneyes and Turin? lol

[Nolder]

Re: Hallia

 

I'm not going to act all high and mighty here since as I've said previously I didn't really have a read on Hallia but it doesn't surprise me that she's town. She often does very basic scummy things just because that is the way she plays. Either she will eventually change her style or she'll probably keep getting lynched for the same stuff most games.

[BFG]

Around Page 45, but I've stopped concentrating so will call it a night, and hopefully this makes sense.

 

From Night 1 - Cloud & Tommy both switch Turin to Town.

 

It's mildly interesting that Hoof is the only person to really comment on Turins NightKill.

 

Since they come up a few times -

 

Goldens Tommy post - this clearly wasn't Tommy he was talking about since Tommy hadn't really looked at Nolder at all, however Freudian slip probably puts him clear.  

 

Goldens back and forth with Via - this really doesn't stand out to me, Goldens reaction to people picking out his mistakes is OTT and was the same with me in Settlers, Vias reaction to his OTT reaction seems natural to me. 

 

I like Keys catch up posts as well.

 

Tommy's a lot quieter today, in fact much quieter than I'd have thought.

 

Hoof seems quite sheepish - his initial vote was on Nolder yet when Cloud called him out for it added Krak to his mafia list.  Later on Krak also backs off his case on Nolder.  Neither of these looks good. 

 

In general although I haven't got there yet, Elf is pinging like crazy.  She pops her head up when called out for something then disappears.  She needs to post something soon! 

 

Did Nolder ever post his thoughts on Golden & Turin?

 

 

 

 

The rest of Day 2 will have to wait, hopefully I'll get chance to comment before Day 3 starts.

[Nolder]

Did Nolder ever post his thoughts on Golden & Turin?

No, I ragequit.

[keyholder21]

 

All of Via's posts. Without any commentary.

Wow. Can I commission you to do Goldeneyes and Turin? lol

Sure. I will get to them tomorrow at work (approximately 12 hours from now).

[keyholder21]

@BFG - Tommy did say on threas that he was super sick. Hopefully he feels better soon.

[Andrej]

 

Nolder. I suggest you ask for a replacement if you can't handle the game.

Peace you are the one who is having a personal issue with me not the other way around.

I'm not subbing out of the game, either because you think I'm cheating or because you're just pissed at me, and if that bothers you you're welcome to take your own advice.

This stops here.

[Krakalakachkn]

@BFG - it wasn't a case on Nolder, I stated that clearly. It was an ISO in which I explored Nolder's actions and the actions and reactions of those attached to them. That sounds stupid, I'm sure, but my intent was to explore and I decided I have a null read. I don't think you can call that dropping a case.

[csarmi]

 

 

Nolder. I suggest you ask for a replacement if you can't handle the game.

Peace you are the one who is having a personal issue with me not the other way around.

I'm not subbing out of the game, either because you think I'm cheating or because you're just pissed at me, and if that bothers you you're welcome to take your own advice.

 

This stops here.

 

Again, if you got a personal problem with anyone, an objection to any play or any post, you are to PM me to sort it out.

 

As I have received no such PM's from anyone so far, I consider all of this as gameplay. So play on.

[csarmi]

This is just a reminder. Night ends in 75 minutes. As soon as night ends, you will not be allowed to post. I'll have a meeting starting just then, and I have to write the scene anyway, so it's possible that dawn will last for up to 30-60 minutes.

[Blackhoof]

I'm doing an ISO on Krak. No analysis I think, just every single one of his posts.

[Blackhoof]

Part 1-

 

 

 

To gage scummymess from an opening post and asking others to do so just seems like your trying to get a lynch going on very thin grounds, while having an excuse if they come up innocent, also you haven't given the same analysis you asked for until now, kinda like so later if anyone had said something that started a lynch train, you can point to them and say it was their idea.

And why golden bfg?

 

All is valid.

 

I disagree with every point in your post, Elf.

 

Why aren't you voting for Tom if you find him so scummy?

 

The classic "If you find someone scummy and aren't actively voting for them then you're obviscum."  I disagree strongly with this line of reasoning.

 

 

I don't actually find him especially scummy right now, and I want to see what he says. And I am aware there are other paths my line of reasoning could take, but it seems best to go down the worst possible case first.

 

In one of your first posts you mentioned that Tom's eagerness is the only thing that stood out to you, and now you call him out for trying to get a lynch going by using very thin reasoning and at the same time trying to set up an escape if his attempt would fail. I again disagree with your explanation regarding his actions so far, but it's certainly interesting that you are now trying to backpaddle away from your initial read on him by saying that you want to wait for him to talk more. You haven't stated your suspicion on anyone else and you even admit that it's best to go with the worst possible case first, but you still aren't willing to vote for him at this stage of the game.

 

##vote Elf

 

 

God it's like the perfect hybrid of Cloud and Darthe.  It's….Clarthe.

 

 

 

##vote elf

So someone said you start every game with "yo" which means you're aware of your own meta which means you're probably not a very adept player (no offense intended) since you have a gimmick to cover yourself. Why are you me-too-ing Cloud's vote without any prior commentary or justification? If anyone has the right to be second in line here, it's me. Pls explain

 

 

Probably because I'm not a very adept player.  Really, why are you asking questions you've already answered for yourself?

 

 

zing!

 

Oh and yeah, I don't think analysing first posts on day one is helpful except to give scum reads on easy lynchs

 

It's legitimate info that we can potentially glean something from.  

 

 

 

 

Personal attacks after I put doubt on you isn't very Christmaslike :(

It's not very town like either

##Vote Peaceinthemiddleeast

I wouldn't be surprised if we've hit scum already

-Self conscious (evidenced by OP gimmick)
-Sheep voting with no discussion, expecting the wagon to take off
-Overly defensive and gets into personal attacks on Day 1 (lol)

Definitely the most suspicious play so far

Follow me to the promised land

Attempt to lead town denied...

Get with the program, I already denied him N0. :-)

 

 

She said No on N0.

 

Seriuosly though, I can't tell if Tommy has just rubbed Turin the complete wrong way or if Turin is scum.  I think it shall become clear soon.

 

100% caught up now and don't like Cloud's play at all so far.

He seems less like someone who is posturing for information and more like someone actually trying to achieve a lynch.

Our Day just started, I don't think it would be wise to end it just yet. He is my top suspect for a scum at the moment.

 

Cloud is coming out hot and he better be careful or he'll get burned.

 

 

 

*yawn*

##vote Nol

Are you going to sit in my lap too? ;)

I think I need to sit in Krak's lap this game...

*sits in Krak's lap*

 

 

Stick to teaching the rest of your team on your QT for now please. 

 

 

And BTW, I think I said I've seen skilled players do it to great effect, not that you were doing that now. I further disagree that there is any one way to play mafia. So trying to imprint your playstyle on others is not in the best interests of the game itself. It may be in your own best interest as it makes it easier to play with others that play a similar style. You and nolder going  all "sole arbiter of play" here is pinging quite loudly to me. 

 

If you are not sane enough to realise where you are at any particular time then maybe you are not the best choice to follow. And it was more along the lines that you used Peace's comment about poker as a means to attempt to distract you when again you were the first to mention it. So maybe you shouldn't introduce things that you don't wish to talk about? 

 

From the mouths of babes appear some of the most universal truths...

 

Carry on. I shall be out for a bit

 

Then quit complaining and get your lead on.

 

 

We're voting for each other but what he's said makes sense if I turn my brain 25 degrees. So maybe he thinks he's right and I think I'm right and this is some hot town on town action. I'll let him prove his alignment to me through scumhunting but as it stands it looks like he's tunneling on me for some reason... which I do not qualify as scumhunting. QED.

If I'm wrong on both of ya then it's no big deal -- I'll adjust after a re-read. Every interaction is a useful interaction as far as solving the game goes. Even if I am way off, the way people respond to it will be telling later in the game

 

I don't disagree with anything you say here.  And I think his vote on you has a lot of OMGUS influencing it.  But your comments in this quote do not explain that statement you made.

 

You've basically pigeon holed him into only finding scum or else he is scum.  If he is town, then he is uninformed and may lead a town lynch.  Way did you make a statement that only gives one option?

 

If you meant you want to see him scumhunting, then why didn't you just say that?

 

 

Good thing we're smarter than he is.

 

 

 

 

 

[Blackhoof]

2-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't actually find him especially scummy right now, and I want to see what he says. And I am aware there are other paths my line of reasoning could take, but it seems best to go down the worst possible case first.

This is the most reasonable approach to Day 1.

Why?

Pressuring people, even if you don't actually find them scummy, to see what they say is pretty much essential for a successful Day 1.

 

 

 

 

I don't actually find him especially scummy right now, and I want to see what he says. And I am aware there are other paths my line of reasoning could take, but it seems best to go down the worst possible case first.

 
In one of your first posts you mentioned that Tom's eagerness is the only thing that stood out to you, and now you call him out for trying to get a lynch going by using very thin reasoning and at the same time trying to set up an escape if his attempt would fail. I again disagree with your explanation regarding his actions so far, but it's certainly interesting that you are now trying to backpaddle away from your initial read on him by saying that you want to wait for him to talk more. You haven't stated your suspicion on anyone else and you even admit that it's best to go with the worst possible case first, but you still aren't willing to vote for him at this stage of the game.
 
##vote Elf

Way way too eager.

Explain why it is too eager?

As I said before he seems to be edging towards a lynch and not just putting pressure.
Instead the usual "I think X is scummy so vote: you" he's actually making a pretty wordy case and trying to get people to follow him. That's not normal Day 1 behavior. To me it smacks of some sort of blitz tactic.
 

 

 

I'm not protecting you.

Yeah, you kind of were.

Or, he was pointing out an issue and the defense was secondary. This is actually good stuff because it can be crossed referenced later in the game. Even if he were defending..why discourage the behavior?

You don't defend people who's alignment you aren't sure of.
Especially not this early. It either means you're a townie flying blind or you're a scum who is buddying.
If people are getting pressure it's usually a good idea to let them speak for themselves before commenting.
This isn't any different than what I was telling BFG.

 

Actively engaging in scum hunting requires a certain degree of defending of other players, or rather of calling out a play that inadvertently defends their attacker.  I understand how a lot of people read that as a scum tell, yet I have many a time have called out a player's bullshit only to have someone accuse me of defending that player's target.

 

Did I put that right?  I think I did.  Defending is sometimes necessary only if it isn't a defensive tunneling.  Then it's scummy.  Or you're a cop with a viewing.

 

 

 

Also Clarthe is uberscummy.

 

##Cloud

 

 

 

 

 

Also what tommyrod said peace, explanation?

 
And also notice how she is trying to shift the attention towards to Peace who voted for her after it was already explained that his lack of reasoning isn't anything out of the ordinary. Her prod towards Peace and her later vote on him means means that she is afraid of OMGUSing me. A townie would be less self-conscious about her votes than she has been thus far.

 

I'll remember this later when you ask someone to explain a vote on you.

 

 

 

 

I also don't like how you're making Elf out to be the center of attention.  

As if asking MetaWorld Peace for a reason on voting her is unreasonable.

 

 

And also notice how she is trying to shift the attention towards to Peace who voted for her after it was already explained that his lack of reasoning isn't anything out of the ordinary.

 

Wut?

 

 

Dude, you've essentially been advocating that Elf stop playing mafia.  If she can't question reads, votes, and make up her own mind, what do you expect from her?

 

 

 

 

I doubt you'll achieve satisfaction with Peace.

 

 

I told him to get his ass on here and play but it might be later today or tomorrow.

 

 

 

Oh, and ##Cloud

 

 

Damn, forgot I already did that.

 

 

 

Hey guys, remember when someone posting three times in a row was a scum tell?

 

 

hashtagGoodTimes

 

 

What exactly does a bear do in the woods?

 

 

 

DM games have a different taste to them. I think it's because of the quotes-within-quotes-within-quotes system and the particular metas you guys have developed here. Christmas is over so I'm giving the thread a re-read.
 

Krakalakachkn 12

 

Why u tweakin' bro?

 

 

 

 

Krak - poke your roommate. No posts is unacceptable. 

 

Yeah, I've been trying but he isn't responding to texts.  I have a feeling he forgot his charger when he left for the break, but I should see him today and i'll get on him.

 

 

 

Buddy much?

 

 

Lol

 

 

Yeah Blackhoof doesn't look good.


##unvote vote Blackhoof

 

 

 

[BFG]

Something I forgot to mention yesterday (lunch at work so I don't have time to fetch quotes, although I imagine it will be somewhere in one of Hoofs post searches above...)

 

rereading Kraks bit on Turin not thinking I was Town...  It's because of the word change.  'Only I know that at present', 'I only know that at present'.  The first is what Turin said, the second is what Krak quoted and is why he thought Turin doubted I was Town.  Whether or not Krak did it on purpose I'm undecided.

 

(Probably obvious, but it took me a while to see the difference in the meaning)

[Blackhoof]

Part 3-

 

 

 

 

 

 

Turin, what do you think of my case on you?

It is wrong. maybe go into it in a while.

 

 

Why do you think you can tell others what to do? 

 

 

Why are you taking everything so serious? I admit that I did a Darthe impersonation a couple of times just for the fun of it, but all my moves so far have been completly game related and had no ill will in mind. I'm trying my best to gain as much info as I can to try and solve this puzzle. And I'm not Tom's "attack dog on a leash". We just happen to share the same scum read right now. Notice how I don't go after Peace while he was casing him because I have a town read on him.

 

What are you on about? I mentioned no ill will. ALL posting on thread is gameplay. it is there to be scrutinized. that is how this game works.

 

 

This jives not at all with your earlier gameplay.

 

 

 

 

 

Current thoughts on the List of Players:

• 01 - Peace:  The refusal to directly state his reasons for voting elf was a bit weird but it was fairly obvious to me that he was saying that he agreed with Cloud's case against her. The snark fest with Tommy is fiesty peace. Slight town lean
• 02 - Cloud (mentored by Darthe): Severe buddying to Tommy. ("yes sir"? ) as well as chainsaw defense with regards to elf's case against Tommy. He has been quite eager to get thru D1 it appears. This is usually more evident in mafia members that have good roles they want to utilize. The "i'm excited for this game" line doesn't fly for me. When you made the comment "when are we going to lynch Turin or Hoof" there wasn't much hoofie discussion yet. I was wondering why you picked him to put in there with me. You were following Tommy onto me so that I get but why hoofie at that point? or was Darthe pulling your strings there like with the Leelou is town thing? Mafia #2
• 03 - Krak (mentored by Verb) not much here yet to me. seemed to be primarily peanut gallery type posts. Undecided.
• 04 - GoldenEyes (mentored by Despothera) his vote on elf came across as a bad Despo impersonation. Like he wanted to sound like Depso but didn't want to put in the effort to multi quote. Just looks like lazy play so far. undecided tho.
• 05 - TommyRod: Mafia #1. attempting to lead the town.  advocated the "look at inactives" it works every time. Only the SithMafia deal in absolutes. A few other things.  Is Cloud more pro-town than you are? You are constantly defending each other and working together too much.
• 06 - Leelou (mentored by Wombat) Are you still voting Nolder? You accused me of parking my vote on Tommy but you put your vote on Nolder before he even checked in. maybe hypocrisy is the new black. And if I am tunneling and trying to get him voted out for whatever reason my vote isn't parked. Added to the Tommy defender team. The little shot Night 0 could easily be a distance ploy. If Tommy is mafia like I think then she could very well be also. mafia lean.
• 07 - Theodora (mentored by Key) Only thing I recall is her early call out of Hoof for claiming Hoof... Were you serious about that? I wasn't sure if it was sarcasm or not... Undecided
• 08 - Elffern (mentored by Dap) The interaction with Tommy early was interesting. I think she was trying to say that She found Tommy pushing for everyone to play his game off. The not voting until later in the day especially on D1 is classic Dap from about 9 months ago. That she has adopted it is reasonable I guess since she has been away for a while. town lean  
• 09 - Hally (mentored by Yates) More posting please ( yates must be turning over in his grim reaper hut) Incomplete. 
• 10 - BFG - Innocent Child -Back away form the alcohol and post more please. you are the only person we know is trying to help town win so all input and thoughts are valuable
• 11 - dansyc (mentored by Kaylee) ABSENT Waiting for replacement
• 12 - Nolder: didn't like his advice to BFG. Also didn't like that he called cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1. There is no such thing as pressuring without the intent to lynch. it is like saying that you are voting someone to pressure them. If the votee doesn't think that you are serious then they will just ignore your vote. Also has been fairly reasonable which is usually a sign of mafia Nolder. slight edge to mafia lean. 
• 13 - BlackHoof: was behaving with just the one silly Blackhoof post which caught Thea's attention. Leaning town still at present
• 14 - Turin (advised by Pray) Town. but only I know that at present.

 

Mafia: Tommy, Cloud, maybe nolder, maybe Leelou. 

 

Town: BFG, Turin. 

 

. 23 hour day at present. Good  Night now

 

This post is crap.

 

 

A) Feels need to include himself in reads, like we believe that he's town based on his own insistence.  I love that last part, "but I only know that at present."  That suggests two things: 1) He isn't sure he's town, and 2) He doesn't believe BFG is town.  

B) Weak read on Golden

C) Has Cloud as scum #2, and yet hates on Nolder for "calling cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1" in the same post.

D) There is completely such a thing as "pressuring without the intent to lynch."  I've done it so many times that myself alone makes you as incorrect as Nixon (or whoever) when he declared Marijuana a gateway drug.  To suggest otherwise is naive at best.

 

 

 

 

That post is so Tom-like!

 

Quit trying to ingratiate yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That post is so Tom-like!

 

Quit trying to ingratiate yourself.

 

 

You just jelly 

 

 

No comment on my previous?

 

 

 

I really wish this forum wasn't PG-13.

 

 

Or PG or whatever.

 

 

 

Oh yeah I forgot that DM Mafia is dead on the weekends. Silly me.

I tend to work 2/3 days on the weekend, and the computer we use is constantly spied on by the boss, so I can't really use it safely to play. That leaves the annoying process of phoneplay, and everyone knows phoneplay isn't as good as intercourse.


Also, I voted Blackhoof because his post reeked and I wanted to see reactions, which mostly consisted of you, Tom, and Turin questioning me. So, a small modicum of success.

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah I forgot that DM Mafia is dead on the weekends. Silly me.

I tend to work 2/3 days on the weekend, and the computer we use is constantly spied on by the boss, so I can't really use it safely to play. That leaves the annoying process of phoneplay, and everyone knows phoneplay isn't as good as intercourse.


Also, I voted Blackhoof because his post reeked and I wanted to see reactions, which mostly consisted of you, Tom, and Turin questioning me. So, a small modicum of success.

 

 

 

##unvote

 

 

 

B.) Explain. this looks like filler on your part.

Your entire read on Golden was filler. You threw in Despo a few times and that was it.

 

 

 

I wish I were scum with Nolder, that would be fun.


The buddy much comment was aimed at Cloud for responding to your post with "yes Sir" which is ver strange. It implies a chain of command which makes no sense unless you're on a scum team and Cloud recognizes your authority. Which I could see if you had a power role, but I have a harder time seeing Clarthe acknowledge you as top scum hunter.

Unless your game plan was to both be the most active poster/scum hunters and plow through the game Leeroy Jenkins style.

That said, it's a null read for me at the moment. NULL, but not forgotten.


I plan on doing ISO's later and Nolder will surely be one.

 

 

Just caught up, and I know it's shitty that it was right before the deadline, sorry.  Ended up getting pretty drunk last night.  Today should see me more active.

 

 

Like Hallia, intention to hammer Golden.

 

 

Nolder and Turn smack of town to me.

 

Nol because of Golden's L-1 vote and Turin because of his voting.  I believe Cloud pointed out the specific post.

 

 

 

[Blackhoof]

Part 4-

 

 

 

Krak followed me onto Hoof while he thought I was mafia.

 

Your reads were good man.  His post was bad and you did a good job calling him out on it.

 

 

 

Here's my ISO on Nolder.  

 

 

Nolder, why have you been up Cloud's ass in this game when he is arguably the most pro-town player in this game? Who are your top 3 scumreads right now?

You can make that argument if you want to. I'll laugh and call you dumb though.

 

As for scumreads.

I'm reluctant to narrow my focus to just three people right now, it's too early in the game for that.

Especially given that so many people have barely posted.

If I've noticed something off or wrong or whatever I've called people on it.

Nothing has been held back thus far so what you've seen is what you get.

 

I will say that out of everyone Krak has been the only one to give me a town vibe thus far.

 

 

Tommy really stuck out here.  He gets on Nolder's case for questioning/challenging Cloud, acting as if Cloud is proven town and above reproach.  And of course that is a completely ridiculous statement, nothing is taken for granted besides BFG, so Tommy definitely pings here for defending Cloud.  Then he throws in the 3 reads thing in an attempt to balance out the post and look like he's doing something proactive.

 

 

 

Not sure why this is claiming TOmmy was the author, but it's definitely NOlder.  It's at 27 Dec at 1:15.

Checking in for today.

Don't have much time but I notice Hallia hasn't been around much.

Want to hear more from her before our deadline. If not, I have no problem with sending her to the executioner.

 

##Vote Hallia

 

First vote and mention of Hallia.  Not unusual for his desire to lynch in actives or prod for activity.

 

THis is pissing me off.  Nolder 28 Dec 1:37

Obviously I don't have the time right now to read some of the massive posts some people have made but rest assured when I get to them you'll hate me because I'll just be spamming the thread with catchup. Ketchup? Anyway...

 

I see Hallia hasn't voted anyone yet. Has she even posted since I voted?

I don't want to bury my vote over non participating because it's a null tell but I'm reluctant to vote people who are participating without better reads on them.

Eh whatever. Sorry but this is the best I can manage right now. Next week you'll probably be sick of how much I'm posting but for now you'll have to settle for this.

 

 

Calls out Hallia again.  

 

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/86578-basic-christmas-mentors-maffia/?p=3119030

 

Asks Hallia if she posted since he called her out, she replies that she did and tells him not to be lazy and go look.

 

Turns out she responded to a post from Elae and voted Goldeneyes, 4th person to do so behind Peace, Thia, and Via.

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/86578-basic-christmas-mentors-maffia/?p=3118783

 

 

 

 

I posted before you made some comment or other about me.  I thought that was kinda funny, so yes, I did.

A link or post number would have been helpful...

 

Don't be lazy and go look?

It's not laziness that is taking up my time right now.

In fact I can turn that right around on you and call you lazy for not taking the time to grab a link for me when unlike me you know where to look.

 

 

I posted this before you wrote that, did you skim past it?

 

Apparently I did, yeah.

 

Hrm, looking back, I thought maybe we'd posted at the same time and you'd missed it, but there was a 10 minute gap in between.  

 

 

##Vote Nolder

Well unfortunately I misjudged what time I had and wasn't able to check this.

Instead I made a crippled lady some dinner, did dishes, and took out trash, among other things.

Not that I expect that to matter to anyone nor am I fishing for a break.

Now I have a couple minutes to make this post before we go to pick up her inlaw from work.

Maybe instead of worrying about when a post was made and calling me lazy for not having the time to do more than skim the thread right now, next time you could just point me to the quotes directly so I can be judged on the contents of my thoughts/posts. I asked because I wanted to do that for you and not leave my vote on you for inactivity when obviously that's outdated but I guess no good deed goes unpunished.

 

 

These don't look good for Nolder.  He's got a weird attitude at this point, arguing semantics with Hallia about being lazy (worthless) - the whole "I could turn around and call you lazy" part is pretty unnecessary and I think it's clear that Hallia shouldn't be doing his work for him.  Then he comes out with that random AtE and ends with a "I don't want to vote you but I'm voting you."  This reads weird for NOlder and definitely could be scummates distancing.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/86578-basic-christmas-mentors-maffia/?p=3119069

 

In response to Blackhoof saying Nol is pinging heavily for his Hallia stuff and moves his vote from Peace to Nolder.

 

 

Hoof I'm not sure what you're trying to say but I don't have time to wait for an explanation.

More info would be gained from another lynch but at the same time inactive people cannot be given passes to endgame.

At the time I voted her she was inactive and despite my attempt at having her point out what she could choose to be her most relevant game posts she refused and called me lazy.

In my opinion she's reaped what she has sewn in this case. My vote may not be the most relevant one but because of her I wasn't able to asses whether it would be a good idea to unvote or not.

 

 

More crap. THat last part pings heavily.

 

 

 

I take what is said in game as game play.  Doesn't mean I can't do the same Nolder.  You are way too immature to stand on any high horse. 

 

 

Strong scum vibe from Nolder for his trying to tell people how to play stance.  Major scum tell. 

My horse can beat up your horse.

 

 

Well considering you're already voting me I don't see why I should give you the benefit of the doubt here tbh.
It looks like you're...hmmm what would this be called. Small game hunting?

Blah, blah, blah. If I wanted you lynched I'd be pushing on you.

 

Uh, you kind of are. Hence the vote.

It's not like you're going to make it obvious but placing a vote on me, someone who tends to attract trains early and often, as soon as you enter the game without reason is basically going for the early lynch as far as I'm concerned. Trying to strike up the Hoof joke was the same thing. You're casting a wide net. What I can't tell yet is if you're doing this because you're trying to find a good place to bury your vote or if you're trying to see who would follow you.

 

Defensive play here, brings up the fact that he attracts trains early.  This post reads as Nolder being nervous about the vote on him but trying to play it as Leelou is scummy, not him.  It kinda looks that way too, as she has voted him but states that she doesn't want him lynched.  Then why have your vote on him still?

 

The earlier part with Peace is a continuation of their argument from earlier and smacks of bravado.  Pure posturing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well considering you're already voting me I don't see why I should give you the benefit of the doubt here tbh.
It looks like you're...hmmm what would this be called. Small game hunting?

Blah, blah, blah. If I wanted you lynched I'd be pushing on you.

 

Uh, you kind of are. Hence the vote.
It's not like you're going to make it obvious but placing a vote on me, someone who tends to attract trains early and often, as soon as you enter the game without reason is basically going for the early lynch as far as I'm concerned. Trying to strike up the Hoof joke was the same thing. You're casting a wide net. What I can't tell yet is if you're doing this because you're trying to find a good place to bury your vote or if you're trying to see who would follow you.

 

 
That's for me to know and you to find out. You know damn well me just voting you is different than me pushing a lynch on you.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
It's like saying L-1 isn't a death sentence even if it's close to deadline.
But you and I both know that on DM it is.

 

Quoted in reference to above post.  I happen to agree with Leelou's reasoning and I think she responded well to Nol's earlier post.

 

 

 

[Blackhoof]

Part 5-

 

 

 

 

I didn't feel it was enough to vote on, but it was/is enough to poke with a stick, and also get day one going further than merry Xmas posts.

Elf is using the classic "his play was scummy but it wasn't enough to vote him" scum tactic.

 

Could just be more of the same attacks we've seen from Cloud but this was a fair observation.
I don't know that I would go so far as to call it a "classic scum tactic" but it is absolutely something to note later in the game I think.

 

Also what tommyrod said peace, explanation?

 
And also notice how she is trying to shift the attention towards to Peace who voted for her after it was already explained that his lack of reasoning isn't anything out of the ordinary. Her prod towards Peace and her later vote on him means means that she is afraid of OMGUSing me. A townie would be less self-conscious about her votes than she has been thus far.

 

This is much less reasonable.
We want to try to include everyone on Day 1 and not let anyone slip under the radar so we have stuff to analyze as the game goes on.
Not only that, but I think an explanation was absolutely called for.
Just because Elf isn't concentrating solely on defending from your accusations does not mean he (she?) is trying to shift attention.
This further goes to show me that you think Elf SHOULD be the center of attention. Stop tunneling and address the game at large.

 

1. There isn't anything wrong with not having scum reads at the start of the game, and I never expected you to have them. What is pinging however is that even though Tom is your only scum read you didn't want to commit and vote for him.

That's not unusual for Day 1.
 

@Nolder's case on me:
 
You are calling me out for being too eager, which is actually true because I have been really looking forward to this game. However, since when is eagerness a scumtell? It only conveys excitement for a game which isn't an exclusive emotion for the mafia own. You don't say anything about the content of my posts themselves which is very scummy, and instead only go on how I'm being eager.

Since when is eagerness to lynch a scumtell? Always.
The town has two guaranteed powers. The ability to talk and reason things out during the day, and the ability to vote to lynch someone.
Rushing through the game at any point is ill advised at best. At worst it can be a complete disaster.
Of course I'm someone who is impatient and I hate when we wait until the deadlines but there is absolutely a happy medium in there somewhere.
Trying to rush the day to me seems scummy. I don't need to dig deeper into your posts than that because really...you have nothing.
And I'm not faulting you for that exactly. The game has only been going for how many hours? And this is a game which builds from nothing. That's why we joke around and throw some silly votes. We start attacking each other for those silly accusations knowing that they will lead to reactions and more solid reads and cases. If you are town and you really think you have a scum pegged on Day 1 you need to make a damn good case and so far all I've seen is normal day 1 stuff from Elf. You wanna convince me to lynch Elf? Give them a noose to hang themselves with, aka give it more time. We have no deadline so there is zero need to rush a lynch at this time.
 

You quoted a post of mine where I ask Tom to follow me after he has been promting us to do the same thing the whole game so far, and then you continue that I'm not trying to apply pressure but just want to get her Elf lynched. This isn't true at all because I have actually explained my reasonings for why I'm suspicious about  Elf's play, and by only isolating that post of mine it looks like you are trying to paint events in such a light that would only back up your negative view on me.

Again, that is exactly what seems off to me.
You're so serious about lynching Elf, so convinced.
Why are you so sure on Day 1?
 

I was in no way protecting Tom. I only questioned Elf's lack of vote on him after she said that she found him scummy.

Fine. I'm just telling you how it looked from my POV though.
 

You calling Peace out for apprently not broadcasting his towniness is bull because his play has been spot on so far. You even admitted the same thing yourself by saying that he is on his town meta. It's also hypocrytical because you accuse me of defending Tom and then proceed to openly defend Peace.

Peace is well aware of his meta I think which means a meta read goes right out the window.
Furthermore just because someone is "on their town meta" does not mean they can do no wrong.
Not explaining a vote is wrong. It always has been and it always will be. (Pssst, Wombat, DIAF)
And no I didn't defend Peace. Tom asked what our thoughts were and I answered.
You went out of your way to comment where you weren't asked.

I think you have an ulterior motive behind your attack on me.

I think you think you can't be wrong and so any criticism of your moves or tactics is chalked up to scum attacking you.
You're going to be the guy that says half the game is scum and that you've got it all figured out, calling it now.
 

Now you are just stretching Leelou's vote on you to fit your scum agenda. Nobody besides Leelou even mentioned you until now so your fake paranoid attitude of being lynched is misplaced. It's also good to see that you are trying your best to not mention Elf at all, while she called you calm and reasoned in post #186 which would be her only defense of a player in this game so far.

What agenda is that again? I thought my agenda was attacking you not Leelou.
Or, could it be? No...could it be that just maybe I felt like addressing her vote on me because it would be suspicious not to?
Well damned if I do damned if I don't, as usual.

And lol at fake paranoia. I know you don't play on JN but feel free to ask around how many times I've been lynched on a Wednesday there.
Spoiler: too many times.
 
 

 

 

Oh and yeah, I don't think analysing first posts on day one is helpful except to give scum reads on easy lynchs

 
Actually, it's the most town thing you can do.  It put you out there to be read.  Tommy gives me strong town vibes just for that one action.  He may be the new guy coming in here insulting people before anyone knows him...and has no clues on how to behave in a social setting when you are the new guy but he is town so far.

 

 
You are contradicting the most "logical" process in the game for establishing town behavior.  Giving reads.  You discredit Tommy for giving reads.  Like I said, I've given you my reason.  You chose to ignore it.  In my emotional opinion your logic has failed.
 
(I'm really hoping you can see the sarcasm...when it's being obviously pointed out to you.)
 
 
Let's extrapolate a bit more. 
 
You FOS Tommy for giving his reads.
 
Nolder states, when building a case on me, that giving reasons/reads is the only acceptable town behavior.
 
You never question Nolder on this?
 
Logically that does not add up. 
 
Do you wish to check your logic?

 

Good post.
 

Actively engaging in scum hunting requires a certain degree of defending of other players, or rather of calling out a play that inadvertently defends their attacker.  I understand how a lot of people read that as a scum tell, yet I have many a time have called out a player's bullshit only to have someone accuse me of defending that player's target.
 
Did I put that right?  I think I did.  Defending is sometimes necessary only if it isn't a defensive tunneling.  Then it's scummy.  Or you're a cop with a viewing.

That's true. Especially on Day 1.
I'll tone back the lecturing people on defending others thing for now although I don't think they did it as scumhunting tbh.

 

 

Big post regarding Cloud's play.  I agreed with Nol regarding Cloud's call out of Elfern for questioning Peace's vote on her.  It smacked of intentional unfair logic intended to make Elf appear wrong for questioning another's vote on her.  It was a scummy thing to say.  Nol accuses Cloud of tunneling and attempting to make Elf the center of attention was a good point, and it would be hard to argue otherwise I think.  Cloud definitely stayed on Elf's ass for a while, looking as if he was going to go down the line of players and hold them each to the flame until he was satisfied or caught scum.  He's not really playing like that anymore, so this is an interesting interaction.

 

Nol is jumping back and forth between Leelou, Cloud, and PEace, but he isn't tunneling and it doesn't read as a desperate attempt to fling mud and see what sticks.

 

 

 

 

So I wrote these in parallel, meaning they are in chronological order by player but the events aren't in order for you as the reader. So you should read them all before replying as some of the commentary for one player will reference other players as I go along. These are my thoughts up until Post #200, will continue developing. Some players have posted wayyyy more than others and will have more meat to chew on.

 

01 - Peace

The meta-aware opening of "yo" in #13. He hasn't posted shit until #114 when he sheeps Cloud's vote on Elf out of the blue. He gets snarky as fuck when I question that move, and makes an art out of dodging my question for a while. Very uncomfortable with the continuation of dodging, particularly in #127 with "why is it necessary to regurgitate Cloud's reasons?" This one pings me harder the second time, because town should know why they're doing what they're doing. It should roll right off the tongue because they have an organic thought process. They develop suspicions and act on them. Yet Peace has difficulty articulating any reasoning for his vote on Elf. No bueno. 

 

When I ask if this is normal behavior, Cloud and Leelou both say yes. It doesn't mean I am going to give him a free pass for that, though. Peace gets uber snarky when I ask for more detail from other players on his play. Then he backtracks and says I'm very town in #151... I don't know how I feel about this one. Yes, townies do this sometimes, to see how people will react. But I've also seen mafia back down with a "hah! just testing you!" excuse. I'll put him down as slightly scummy by this point. Using the 2+2 forums and my ego as a counter-point is working outside of the game instead of inside it... I dislike that behavior a lot. 

 

Peace blows off Elf's vote on him with a "you need to re-read" comment in #177, which I dislike because he is twice now refusing to give reasonable justification for his original action when prompted. Why can't he produce an argument off the cuff? Ping. I dislike how he jumps on Nolder in #184 after Leelou already cast doubt on Nolder. He follows up with that in #189, which is good. 

 

Peace attacking my "you can show me you're town by scumhunting" comment in #198 by trying to spin it as pigeon-holing Turin smells like crap on second read. I've never had someone do that to me before and it doesn't even make sense. But that aside, it stinks because Peace and Turin have had no interaction with each other yet both have defended each other... why would they both be assuming I am scum and they are town? This only makes sense if they are masons or mafia. I'm guessing the latter based on their refusal to be transparent and dissect the gameplay within the thread, instead me-too-ing and OMGUSing and ignoring a large portion of the game's activity up to this point (Turin even moreso). 

 

02 - Cloud (mentored by Darthe)

Opening was timid but doesn't bother me on second read. The chat between Cloud and Leelou felt natural. He could be posting just to get posts on the board when the game starts like #22 and #23. This isn't damning by itself, though, more of a supplement. Not sure what Cloud meant by me chasing shadows in #50. I like that he asked for more details from Theo in #75, but the fact that it all just falls flat bothers me. He inadvertently defends me in #107 when he says he disagrees with Elf's comment that OP analysis is scummy. Has decent reasoning in #110: I can see why he votes for Elf in that same post, so that vote feels natural. Cloud's reasoning against Elf in #141 is fluid; he's a town lean of mine. 

 

03 - Krak (mentored by Verb)

Opening was fine in #30. Says Cloud has the scummiest intro in #44. I don't think it's the scummiest. @Krak, was this a meta read on Cloud?

 

04 - GoldenEyes (mentored by Despothera)

Self conscious opening in #29. I have no idea what he's saying in #65, looks spammy.

 

06 - Leelou (mentored by Wombat)

Opening seemed okay to me. Her chatter with others still feels natural and not forced by the time I enter the thread. She rebuffs me right off the bat, which is probably more town indicative than not; mafia would be more likely to sheep me (since I'm asking people to do so) and observe if I lead a mislynch to start with. It sucks that she won't try to analyze OP's though. Leeloo is getting a little too off-topic for my liking around the time #84 comes around. Votes for Nol in #104; he hasn't posted yet. Why not vote for someone else who hasn't posted like dan? Could be something, could be nothing. She's still jokey around #117 but at least comments on how Elf was backpedaling on suspicion of me. Still grinding against me in #126, but it feels genuine. Leelou is my first comfortable town read. (Looks like Cloud agrees with me in #128 and Peace grinds against that.)

 

07 - Theodora (mentored by Key)

Lame opening in #12. Being friendly with Blackhoof right off the bat in that post. THEN calls Hoof scummy in #74. Not that I... blame her... but this could be a case of scum-on-scum jostling. This happens surprisingly often in early game, where mafia will point out something dumb that mafia have done and not follow up on their suspicions but later can say "hah! I knew it!" When Cloud asks about it, she instantly backs down. Which is funny, since that Hoof post pinged me hard. I would expect a townie to probe into it a bit more? 

 

08 - Elffern (mentored by Dap)

Opening is corny but not scummy in #26. Disappears for a while and then calls me too eager in #93. But that's not the most interesting part... saying Hoof is obviously scummy and not doing anything about it is. Is Hoof the least valuable player in every game or something? People don't seem to take his antics seriously, which could be dangerous if he gets to coast to endgame without serious scrutiny. Elf throws a little suspicion on me in #106 by saying that OP analysis is looking for an easy excuse to lynch. But what bothers me is the way Elf instantly retracts once Cloud disagrees. Is Elf a very timid player?

 

Elf reappears in #137 and defends and says "I haven't seen anything else suspicious." I dislike that post a lot. He defends himself, says he's got nothing to add, and adds misdirection by asking Peace to explain himself when I questioned him. Hmm. His defense is getting a little too fluffy for my liking in #153 and #154. Comments like "maybe I'm rusty." I'm noticing he tends to end posts with a misdirection question. Elf's vote for Peace in #176 is OMGUSing I think, which is kinda funny. 

 

Elf is still trying to get info out of Peace by #186, so I am doubting that they would be scumbros. 

 

09 - Hally (mentored by Yates)

Opening post #27 pinged me on second read considering how little has been said by Hallia. It's both off-topic and me-too-ing the friendly chat that Theo and Hoof had already. Notably, Hally joins in on Hoof's spam-fest in #53. 

 

11 - dansyc (mentored by Kaylee)

No posts yet.

 

12 - Nolder

Appears in #165, hella late. He goes after Cloud right away. Throws out some fluffy comments in #178 but I agree with what he says about Peace here. I'm noticing that he's grinding against Cloud and Leelou, two of my town reads so far, so I'll be curious to see how that develops. Grinding against Peace and Turin is good, I think. Is Nolder an inexperienced player? 

 

13 - BlackHoof

Weak opening in #8 and #11. I'm not a fan of the cthulu jokey stuff. Post #51 just reeks of bullshit trying-too-hard-to-be-harmless stuff. He outright ignores any attempts at discussing the game so far. He's still spammy in #85, but what pings me about this is his comment "normally you would be on the money" regarding him being scummy. Who the hell writes a comment like this? It's too self conscious. Votes Hallia right off the bat in D1 #92 for literally no reason. Really stupid. But what's stupider is how this reinforces the spam-party that Theo, Hoof, and Hally are having now. I'm finding it to be a little too... comfy. More spam in #102. The spam is pinging me harder now. 

 

14 - Turin (advised by Pray)

#88 is his opening... to wish a merry christmas? Whatever. He's gone for a while and comes back in #169 asking why his opening looks busy and what that means. So we've got >150 posts and he only cares to defend himself in a pretty lousy way? Ping! Also refuses my attempt to start a wagon on Peace in #170. Good to keep in mind for later. He's self conscious and sassing me for lousy reasons (like Peace was) in #173... and then mentions how he's NOT defending Peace. Ping pong! 

 

Turin returns in #188 and is once again defensive and shows no interest in getting to the bottom of things. His first paragraph is about personal attacks and only defends himself and OMGUS's me without looking around the rest of the thread. Bad ping. I'm noticing Peace and Turin have yet to interact with each other. In #191 he posts about how he dislikes people who "teach" and links me to Nolder. It's hard to follow his logic in that post. He ends it by saying he'll be out for a while, which also pings me, as mafia likes to "appear" active without actually being active, and thus tends to check out. It matches his vibe of really only being defensive so far, and having defended Peace despite not having communicated with him at all. 

 

 

tl;dr: Town leans on Leelou and Cloud; scum leans on Peace and Turin who I think are either aligned or Turin is doing the scum-buddying-town thing. 

 

Quoting this to say I will read it later and hopefully people will remind me if I forget.

If I haven't said I read it in thread then I haven't read it yet.

 

 

Not sure if you've done this yet, but here's a reminder.

 

 

 

Nolders refusal to vote one of the larger trains is suspicious.

Nolder, can you explain why you were trying to start a brand new train just before the deadline?

 

This.

 

 

 

*Edited to condense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Blackhoof]

Part 6-

 

 

 

 

 

@ Turin - I thought you didn't like it when people put themselves down as town in their read lists and stuff - or is it different because you are doing it?
 
@ Krak - you have misquoted Turin in your post at 464 - what makes it worse is that you have included Turin's post in yours. I don't know whether you have just misread, or have tried to twist Turin's words here, but tried to do it subtly by just swapping two words round

That is true about the list. I normally will not include myself at all but I did it since I copied from the player list and I happened to be at the bottom. I think I did try to make it clear that my "read" on myself was based on info not available to everyone. I thought I may have even overexplained it.
 
 
Careful on Krak, someone might think you are nitpicking 

No, she's absolutely right. I misread and misquoted. My bad Turin.

 

 

 

@Hoof - any particular reason?

 

 

Anyone gonna be around for a new year's edition of Blackout Mafia™ tonight?

 

 

@Key - It kinda was a case on Nolder, but it was more of a read on the events surrounding Nolder. That's why I specifically called it an ISO rather than a case.

 

 

Starting here:

 

What're your reasons for wanting Krak lynched Cloud?

 

 

 

What're your reasons for wanting Krak lynched Cloud?

 

It's about him coming in the game, posting a lot of fluff and then voting me straight out of the gate without giving much of a reason but ends up calling me obvious mafia or something similair. Later on he provides a couple of arguments for why he thinks I'm mafia, but he doesn't come back at me when I retort those and instead stops commenting on anything that was happening in the game except calling me out for buddying. During this time he keps his vote on me, and when I did a quick case on Hoof and voted for him he switched his vote from me onto Hoof. This stood out to me because he hadn't posted anything inbetween this that might have explained why he changed his mind. When I asked him what his reasoning was he replied that it was for reactions. I then asked him what the result of his observation was but he has yet to reply to my post. It sounded like an easy excuse though.

 

 

 

You make a good point, and since we've been talking, I'm feeling a lot better about Nol.  I'm down for giving it a shot.

 

##unvote

 

##unvote Krak

 

 

Yeah I'm also starting to feel better about Nolder.

 

 

##Vote Krak

 

 

##vote Krak even  

 

 

 

What the hell is this?  This is just completely lazy and an obvious lack of desire for any attempt at play, which makes me extremely suspicious of Hallia and makes me wonder why Cloud didn't say anything about it.

 

 

 

 

 

Cloud's reasons why I'm scum:

 

"It's about him coming in the game, posting a lot of fluff and then voting me straight out of the gate without giving much of a reason but ends up calling me obvious mafia or something similair. Later on he provides a couple of arguments for why he thinks I'm mafia, but he doesn't come back at me when I retort those and instead stops commenting on anything that was happening in the game except calling me out for buddying. During this time he keps his vote on me, and when I did a quick case on Hoof and voted for him he switched his vote from me onto Hoof. This stood out to me because he hadn't posted anything inbetween this that might have explained why he changed his mind. When I asked him what his reasoning was he replied that it was for reactions. I then asked him what the result of his observation was but he has yet to reply to my post. It sounded like an easy excuse though."

 

 

 

Allow me to rebuff.

Your case on elf was bad.  I mean pretty terrible.  You latched on to the first thing that caught your attention and only let it go when it was obvious that you had nothing.  Now you can say that Elf convinced you, but it looks as if you just got beat down.  It'd be pretty obviously scummy of you to tunnel for too long.  I also take issue with your wording.  You state that I "keep my vote" on you and make it sound like I had no reason to do so.  Well, I wasn't going to unvote just to unvote, that's not how I play.  Then you call your case a "quick case" which belittles it (not sure how that makes sense) and sets me up to fail for agreeing with what you posted.  Because how could I possibly agree with a "quick case" and how could a quick case be significant?  You then make it sound like there were 20 pages between you voting Hoof and me voting Hoof, but there weren't.  It was pretty quickly after.  Lastly, your use of the word 'excuse' instead of 'reason' or another such word belittles me (of which I don't care on a personal level) and again makes me look worse.  I don't need an excuse - I had a reason for doing what I did.  So, instead of coming at this from a neutral angle, which is usually town angle, you come at me with specific diction attempting to paint me badly.  

 

 

 

@Krak: Reactions!

...just kidding, mainly because of your terribad vote on me, following cloud.
 

Oh you meant Golden.

*facepalm*

Now I really feel like an idiot, lol.

Yeah now that I think about it he did the same thing as Krak.

Care to explain why you are following your scum reads, Tom?

And Lo and behold, who also did the same? Golden

Just caught up, and I know it's shitty that it was right before the deadline, sorry. Ended up getting pretty drunk last night. Today should see me more active.


Like Hallia, intention to hammer Golden.

Was also absent from both trains, and copied Hallia with the intention to hammer thing.

 

 

I don't understand your point about Golden.

 

 

 

Listen mate, you can talk to me about dictionaries if I try to say something in your native tongue and muck it up.  i know what I said and I know the subtext behind it.  Don't lecture me about my native language ever again over something so trivial.  That pisses me off.

 

Now, for the rest of it.

 

I know what you said and didn't say.  That was the whole point of most of my post, what was unspoken but pointed to.  You're accusing me of what I accused you of, except badly.  Your patronizing tone (not that I care outside the context of the game) doesn't do you any favors.  I know why you're doing it, it's an effective way of puffing yourself up and making the other look bad.

 

Your terrible argument with Elfie was more than enough reason to vote you, and I most certainly don't have to explain my vote to you.  I say you because no one else really seems to be harping on it.

 

Now I will quote.

 

 

Cloud: I don't see any issue with my wording. You did keep your vote on me. That's a fact. I haven't said anything about you lacking a reason with doing so. In contrary I think you did have a reason for keeping your vote on me for so long without commenting on anything game related, a mafia reason to be exact.

 

 

I never said it wasn't a fact, you did say something about my lack of reason (several times in fact), 

 

 

 

Here are two examples, I can quote more.

 

 

 

You say that you don't like to unvote just to unvote, but what about responding to the defense of the person you think is mafia? And what about following that person onto someone else without priorly explaining what made you change your mind about that person? Or isn't that also how you play? :)

 

Oh shit you caught me.  When I say someone is scummy and later vote for their target, it obviously means I got my knickers in a twist.  Or it means I obviously don't think that the person is scummy anymore and agree with their case.  This isn't my first game, I know enough not to do that bush league shit.

 

 

I'm not belittling my case on Hoof by calling it quick. It was quick because I only broke down and analyzed one post of his. I wasn't setting you up for a fail, and certainly not because you agreed with it. What made me suspicious of you is how you haven't given any reasoning for your actions back then. You might want to look up the word quick in the dictionary by the way, because quick doesn't have anything to do with insignificance.

 

See above.

 

 

And lastly I said that your reasoning for switching to Hoof sounded like an excuse to me, meaning that I explained how it looked from my point of view which couldn't have been an attempt to make you look worse because of it's subjective nature. You could better say that I didn't find your reasoning for your vote switching from me to Hoof to be valid. 

 

You said nothing of the sort.  Don't try to qualify such statements after the fact, it's obvious that you're grasping.

 

 

 

I gave my views of your action from a neutral, and even a personal angle to keep everyone focused on the facts behind your actions. You are however now the person who is trying to paint my play in a bad light by introducing an unnecessary amount of hyperbole.

 

And, lastly, you know nothing about the facts behind my actions.  The mere mentioning of this is enough to paint you scum.    The fact that you attempt to call your actions neutral is laughable in the least, and your attempt to pretend knowledge of the facts behind my actions is pure ridiculosity (and yes, I know this isn't a word).