Quality Discussion Thread

[Suttree]

Finnnssss just fricking stop. I said the pace for those books was off and agreed RJ lost control. I said when one doesn't have to wait for a new book its not as bad as some people make out. There is nothing to think about anyone being misguided. For the last time pace and what storylines you like or didn't comes down to opinion, the flaws in writing do not. This isn't a contest between the authors, it's a realistic look at the issues with AmoL, much the same as what happened after CoT came out.

 

Also I've never disputed the concept for the end came from RJ, we've all known that forever. Regardless parts of the epilogue and large parts of the chapter before were written by Brandon. Many people have stated otherwise over and over.

[amjohnson]

Simply Awesome! No other series come close IMHO!

[MarkDiLillo]

Poor Finnssss.

 

I feel bad for the lil chap ;/

[Entreri]

If we are considering filler, 1/2 the books were redundant.  The series could have been finished in 6-7 books, the most filler being books 8-10, it happens to many series. 

 

This back and forth bickering is pointless, you guys can have a quardrillion posts and never agree. 

[Orange7]

This back and forth bickering is pointless, you guys can have a quardrillion posts and never agree. 

 

I disagree.

 

The following reasons will show all of you why I am indisputeably correct:

-This point is too subjective to be taken as fact.

-Seven.

-ajsdhfkjalsdfhakjldfkhaksdhfhlashdlfkjahsdjfhasdfjlkasdhfkjlahsdjfaksdhj.

[Suttree]

Actually it's somewhat funny given the back and forth but was there even a disagreement on the core subject? Finnnssss admitted the writing flaws were there under Brandon(I mean it's a simple fact, he just says they don't bother him) but writing quality isn't what he reads fantasy for, which again is fine. I admitted that the series slowed down during that tPoD-CoT stretch and RJ indulged himself too much. We both agree that writing quality never dropped during that time under RJ. That's part of why I thought it was so odd that he kept spinning the discussion off into different tangents and disagreements without addressing the actual issues that Mr Ares raised. I mean how is trying to highlight issues or particular plot lines he personally doesn't like in RJ's work at all relevant to the topic at hand?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Alright, things seem to be hitting a bit of a bump. 

 

First of all, while I am not saying that I agree with everything Suttree says, he is correct in one thing: This is an aMoL quality thread. The whole point of the thread is to supply good or bad critique on the text of the final WoT book. The flaws of CoT or other books are largely irrelevant in this thread. Of course nobody will be pointing out those flaws - because it isn't critiquing that book. 

 

However, Finnssss makes a good point in saying that compared to RJ's problems, he views the problems with aMoL as acceptable (I believe that was the point, forgive me if I misunderstood)

 

Having said that, that's really all that can be said on the subject. 

 

In reply to the growing amount of posts simply stating that this is pointless: A fair point, perhaps it is. However, this is a thread dedicated to Quality discussion. If you think it is pointless and don't want to debate it - don't read or post on the topic. 

[MauricXe]

"Second to None.....except Lews Therin..."

 

love it

[ReDJeLLo]

So, I have been a lurker for many years, and have almost never posted (mostly for fear of Terez) but I figured, with the end of the series, I might as well start.

 

I feel that I should preface this by saying I have no Lit. degree, nor any particular care for literary structure, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

I was satisfied with AMoL. It gave me an ending. It was like eating 50 nuggets from McDonald's, you are not exactly happy with what you just did (whilethe same time kind of proud), but you are no longer hungry.

 

I was not happy with the meal of a book that I had just read.

 

"...you're a gem..."

 

Just wow.

 

This made me upset not because it wasn't RJ who wrote it, or because BS is not as good as RJ, but because BS was not as good as BS could have been. I understand it is not easy to do what BS did, to jump into another world writing someone else's characters, but I do not think it was HIS best.

 

I am glad the books were finished, and I honestly enjoyed TGS and ToM, but while satisfied, I was not happy with AMoL.

 

I do not know the inner workings of Team Jordan and the impact they had, nor have I read any of BS's other works (though I intend to read A Way of Kings) but I cannot believe that a best-selling author truly writes this way....

 

....but then there's Snooki...

[Mr Ares]

 

 

 

I suppose I wasn't expecting perfection from Sanderson.

 

I was simply happy we got an ending. I really dislike and frown upon anyone who looks at the last three books and complains that Sanderson didn't do something as good as Robert Jordan. We are lucky Robert Jordan ALLOWED someone to complete it.

No-one was expecting perfection. But I dislike people who say that we should just be happy that we got an ending and leave it at that. Maybe an ending is better than no ending, but a good ending is better than a bad ending. I don't think we should have to make do. We can and should be willing to call out both authors on their failings. While Sanderson was placed in a difficult position, we don't have to make excuses for him. Let's treat him like a grown up. There are failings in his WoT books, and in his own books. We can ignore them and try to be happy, or we can offer criticism, and hope that he improves - because if he improves, that means his future works will have fewer problems, and so there will be fewer problems for us to ignore. We have respect for Brandon, and therefore try to voice our dissatisfaction in a way that helps him identify the weaknesses in his writing, and will allow him to work on those weaknesses, and thus to grow as an author. Sweeping Brandon's failings under the rug - which is what the "I'm just happy we got an ending so I won't criticise mindset amounts to" - is an attitude that does more to infantilise him that it does to help him improve, and consequently is an attitude marked by a fundamental lack of respect for him. I don't think a lack of respect is what people are trying to convey, but that's what it amounts to.

This times a 1,000. Well said Mr. Ares, way to articulate the reality of the situation.

I suppose I agree with this, but I'm not going to pick apart the book and complain about things that should have been. It's over. If you want to change something, I'd be happy to see a fanfiction or the way you think it should have been.

Well, neither I nor Suttree is a professional author. Given that many of the problems lie with the execution, expecting someone with no skill or experience to execute things better than a professional author is possibly asking a bit much.

 

"Regret is an appalling waste of energy; you can't build on it; it is good only for wallowing."

~Katherine Mansfield

Probably sums up my reasons for not picking apart books. I just don't see a purpose is not enjoying what you got. You can't change it.

Maybe we can't change AMoL, nor any WoT book. But Sanderson is still alive, and still writing books. While he probably won't read most of these criticisms, there is still a chance that some things that are said will get back to him, and if he gets a fuller understanding of what he did right and what he did wrong, then he can improve. He can make his next book better. Better pace, better prose, better characters. Better author.

 

Plus, as Barid said, this is the quality discussion thread - saying that you loved it or that you hated it is really not constructive. If you don't want to discuss it, don't.

Although I do understand people who are not able to ignore stuff. I suppose that's just too bad. I was able to ignore the issues you guys are talking about, and I don't agree with the complaints about Demandred. I know were are getting his backstory in River of Souls, so that might give us some more insight on his mental situation.

 

One major thing, why are people shrugging off the madness and saying "Demandred being insane is a cop out" - It's not. It was built up for many books and other Forsaken even commented on Demandred's urge to kill LTT. One comment was "I remember a time he would have been happy to just have him killed, now he wants it by his own hand" Or something of the like. True Power insanity has a stable background in Ishy/Moridin/Ba'alzaman.

But it wasn't built up for many books. Demandred wanted LTT dead, by his hand or another. Saying that he has changed recently is noting a change, but not explaining it. Consequently, it comes across more as a handwave to justify a difference in his character than it does as an actual example of character development. And Ishamael, unlike all the other Chosen, is noted for his extensive, almost exclusive, use of the TP - all the others display reluctance to use it, and are well aware of the dangers. They shouldn't have the same addiction or insanity resulting from it as Ishy did. What build up was there? Why the change in character? I had a similar problem with the last Mistborn book, where the Lord Ruler being insane is tossed in, almost as an excuse for his actions, and doesn't really feel like a natural development of his character. Insanity is not a "get out of jail free card", that excuses any and all out of character actions. What signs of insanity do we really see from Demandred? Compare that with Rand's insanity, something which really was built up over several books. Demandred can be considered insane in the way B movie villains are - not suffering from a recognised mental condition, so much as a blanket excuse for any illogical actions, with no defining symptoms. We are left with Demandred's character having changed, but no real explanation as to why.

[Semirhage666]

 

 

 

 

I suppose I wasn't expecting perfection from Sanderson.

 

I was simply happy we got an ending. I really dislike and frown upon anyone who looks at the last three books and complains that Sanderson didn't do something as good as Robert Jordan. We are lucky Robert Jordan ALLOWED someone to complete it.

No-one was expecting perfection. But I dislike people who say that we should just be happy that we got an ending and leave it at that. Maybe an ending is better than no ending, but a good ending is better than a bad ending. I don't think we should have to make do. We can and should be willing to call out both authors on their failings. While Sanderson was placed in a difficult position, we don't have to make excuses for him. Let's treat him like a grown up. There are failings in his WoT books, and in his own books. We can ignore them and try to be happy, or we can offer criticism, and hope that he improves - because if he improves, that means his future works will have fewer problems, and so there will be fewer problems for us to ignore. We have respect for Brandon, and therefore try to voice our dissatisfaction in a way that helps him identify the weaknesses in his writing, and will allow him to work on those weaknesses, and thus to grow as an author. Sweeping Brandon's failings under the rug - which is what the "I'm just happy we got an ending so I won't criticise mindset amounts to" - is an attitude that does more to infantilise him that it does to help him improve, and consequently is an attitude marked by a fundamental lack of respect for him. I don't think a lack of respect is what people are trying to convey, but that's what it amounts to.

This times a 1,000. Well said Mr. Ares, way to articulate the reality of the situation.

I suppose I agree with this, but I'm not going to pick apart the book and complain about things that should have been. It's over. If you want to change something, I'd be happy to see a fanfiction or the way you think it should have been.

Well, neither I nor Suttree is a professional author. Given that many of the problems lie with the execution, expecting someone with no skill or experience to execute things better than a professional author is possibly asking a bit much.

> 

"Regret is an appalling waste of energy; you can't build on it; it is good only for wallowing."

~Katherine Mansfield

Probably sums up my reasons for not picking apart books. I just don't see a purpose is not enjoying what you got. You can't change it.

Maybe we can't change AMoL, nor any WoT book. But Sanderson is still alive, and still writing books. While he probably won't read most of these criticisms, there is still a chance that some things that are said will get back to him, and if he gets a fuller understanding of what he did right and what he did wrong, then he can improve. He can make his next book better. Better pace, better prose, better characters. Better author.

 

Plus, as Barid said, this is the quality discussion thread - saying that you loved it or that you hated it is really not constructive. If you don't want to discuss it, don't.

Although I do understand people who are not able to ignore stuff. I suppose that's just too bad. I was able to ignore the issues you guys are talking about, and I don't agree with the complaints about Demandred. I know were are getting his backstory in River of Souls, so that might give us some more insight on his mental situation.

 

One major thing, why are people shrugging off the madness and saying "Demandred being insane is a cop out" - It's not. It was built up for many books and other Forsaken even commented on Demandred's urge to kill LTT. One comment was "I remember a time he would have been happy to just have him killed, now he wants it by his own hand" Or something of the like. True Power insanity has a stable background in Ishy/Moridin/Ba'alzaman.

But it wasn't built up for many books. Demandred wanted LTT dead, by his hand or another. Saying that he has changed recently is noting a change, but not explaining it. Consequently, it comes across more as a handwave to justify a difference in his character than it does as an actual example of character development. And Ishamael, unlike all the other Chosen, is noted for his extensive, almost exclusive, use of the TP - all the others display reluctance to use it, and are well aware of the dangers. They shouldn't have the same addiction or insanity resulting from it as Ishy did. What build up was there? Why the change in character? I had a similar problem with the last Mistborn book, where the Lord Ruler being insane is tossed in, almost as an excuse for his actions, and doesn't really feel like a natural development of his character. Insanity is not a "get out of jail free card", that excuses any and all out of character actions. What signs of insanity do we really see from Demandred? Compare that with Rand's insanity, something which really was built up over several books. Demandred can be considered insane in the way B movie villains are - not suffering from a recognised mental condition, so much as a blanket excuse for any illogical actions, with no defining symptoms. We are left with Demandred's character having changed, but no real explanation as to why.

 

Girl, Demandred's irrational hatred for LTT was mentioned way freaking back in book 6 by Semirhage in the same PoV in which we learn she, Mesaana, and Demandred are in an "alliance." It was nothing new.

[flinn]

 

 

 

 

 

I suppose I wasn't expecting perfection from Sanderson.

 

I was simply happy we got an ending. I really dislike and frown upon anyone who looks at the last three books and complains that Sanderson didn't do something as good as Robert Jordan. We are lucky Robert Jordan ALLOWED someone to complete it.

No-one was expecting perfection. But I dislike people who say that we should just be happy that we got an ending and leave it at that. Maybe an ending is better than no ending, but a good ending is better than a bad ending. I don't think we should have to make do. We can and should be willing to call out both authors on their failings. While Sanderson was placed in a difficult position, we don't have to make excuses for him. Let's treat him like a grown up. There are failings in his WoT books, and in his own books. We can ignore them and try to be happy, or we can offer criticism, and hope that he improves - because if he improves, that means his future works will have fewer problems, and so there will be fewer problems for us to ignore. We have respect for Brandon, and therefore try to voice our dissatisfaction in a way that helps him identify the weaknesses in his writing, and will allow him to work on those weaknesses, and thus to grow as an author. Sweeping Brandon's failings under the rug - which is what the "I'm just happy we got an ending so I won't criticise mindset amounts to" - is an attitude that does more to infantilise him that it does to help him improve, and consequently is an attitude marked by a fundamental lack of respect for him. I don't think a lack of respect is what people are trying to convey, but that's what it amounts to.

This times a 1,000. Well said Mr. Ares, way to articulate the reality of the situation.

I suppose I agree with this, but I'm not going to pick apart the book and complain about things that should have been. It's over. If you want to change something, I'd be happy to see a fanfiction or the way you think it should have been.

Well, neither I nor Suttree is a professional author. Given that many of the problems lie with the execution, expecting someone with no skill or experience to execute things better than a professional author is possibly asking a bit much.

 

> 

"Regret is an appalling waste of energy; you can't build on it; it is good only for wallowing."

~Katherine Mansfield

Probably sums up my reasons for not picking apart books. I just don't see a purpose is not enjoying what you got. You can't change it.

Maybe we can't change AMoL, nor any WoT book. But Sanderson is still alive, and still writing books. While he probably won't read most of these criticisms, there is still a chance that some things that are said will get back to him, and if he gets a fuller understanding of what he did right and what he did wrong, then he can improve. He can make his next book better. Better pace, better prose, better characters. Better author.

 

Plus, as Barid said, this is the quality discussion thread - saying that you loved it or that you hated it is really not constructive. If you don't want to discuss it, don't.

Although I do understand people who are not able to ignore stuff. I suppose that's just too bad. I was able to ignore the issues you guys are talking about, and I don't agree with the complaints about Demandred. I know were are getting his backstory in River of Souls, so that might give us some more insight on his mental situation.

 

One major thing, why are people shrugging off the madness and saying "Demandred being insane is a cop out" - It's not. It was built up for many books and other Forsaken even commented on Demandred's urge to kill LTT. One comment was "I remember a time he would have been happy to just have him killed, now he wants it by his own hand" Or something of the like. True Power insanity has a stable background in Ishy/Moridin/Ba'alzaman.

But it wasn't built up for many books. Demandred wanted LTT dead, by his hand or another. Saying that he has changed recently is noting a change, but not explaining it. Consequently, it comes across more as a handwave to justify a difference in his character than it does as an actual example of character development. And Ishamael, unlike all the other Chosen, is noted for his extensive, almost exclusive, use of the TP - all the others display reluctance to use it, and are well aware of the dangers. They shouldn't have the same addiction or insanity resulting from it as Ishy did. What build up was there? Why the change in character? I had a similar problem with the last Mistborn book, where the Lord Ruler being insane is tossed in, almost as an excuse for his actions, and doesn't really feel like a natural development of his character. Insanity is not a "get out of jail free card", that excuses any and all out of character actions. What signs of insanity do we really see from Demandred? Compare that with Rand's insanity, something which really was built up over several books. Demandred can be considered insane in the way B movie villains are - not suffering from a recognised mental condition, so much as a blanket excuse for any illogical actions, with no defining symptoms. We are left with Demandred's character having changed, but no real explanation as to why.

 

Girl, Demandred's irrational hatred for LTT was mentioned way freaking back in book 6 by Semirhage in the same PoV in which we learn she, Mesaana, and Demandred are in an "alliance." It was nothing new.

 

I may have been wrong but I was always under the impression Demandred had an irrational hatred for LTT. It was because of that he turned to the shadow in the first place wasnt it?

[Semirhage666]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I suppose I wasn't expecting perfection from Sanderson.

 

I was simply happy we got an ending. I really dislike and frown upon anyone who looks at the last three books and complains that Sanderson didn't do something as good as Robert Jordan. We are lucky Robert Jordan ALLOWED someone to complete it.

No-one was expecting perfection. But I dislike people who say that we should just be happy that we got an ending and leave it at that. Maybe an ending is better than no ending, but a good ending is better than a bad ending. I don't think we should have to make do. We can and should be willing to call out both authors on their failings. While Sanderson was placed in a difficult position, we don't have to make excuses for him. Let's treat him like a grown up. There are failings in his WoT books, and in his own books. We can ignore them and try to be happy, or we can offer criticism, and hope that he improves - because if he improves, that means his future works will have fewer problems, and so there will be fewer problems for us to ignore. We have respect for Brandon, and therefore try to voice our dissatisfaction in a way that helps him identify the weaknesses in his writing, and will allow him to work on those weaknesses, and thus to grow as an author. Sweeping Brandon's failings under the rug - which is what the "I'm just happy we got an ending so I won't criticise mindset amounts to" - is an attitude that does more to infantilise him that it does to help him improve, and consequently is an attitude marked by a fundamental lack of respect for him. I don't think a lack of respect is what people are trying to convey, but that's what it amounts to.

This times a 1,000. Well said Mr. Ares, way to articulate the reality of the situation.

I suppose I agree with this, but I'm not going to pick apart the book and complain about things that should have been. It's over. If you want to change something, I'd be happy to see a fanfiction or the way you think it should have been.

Well, neither I nor Suttree is a professional author. Given that many of the problems lie with the execution, expecting someone with no skill or experience to execute things better than a professional author is possibly asking a bit much.

> 

> 

"Regret is an appalling waste of energy; you can't build on it; it is good only for wallowing."

~Katherine Mansfield

Probably sums up my reasons for not picking apart books. I just don't see a purpose is not enjoying what you got. You can't change it.lockquote>

Maybe we can't change AMoL, nor any WoT book. But Sanderson is still alive, and still writing books. While he probably won't read most of these criticisms, there is still a chance that some things that are said will get back to him, and if he gets a fuller understanding of what he did right and what he did wrong, then he can improve. He can make his next book better. Better pace, better prose, better characters. Better author.

 

Plus, as Barid said, this is the quality discussion thread - saying that you loved it or that you hated it is really not constructive. If you don't want to discuss it, don't.

>Although I do understand people who are not able to ignore stuff. I suppose that's just too bad. I was able to ignore the issues you guys are talking about, and I don't agree with the complaints about Demandred. I know were are getting his backstory in River of Souls, so that might give us some more insight on his mental situation.

 

One major thing, why are people shrugging off the madness and saying "Demandred being insane is a cop out" - It's not. It was built up for many books and other Forsaken even commented on Demandred's urge to kill LTT. One comment was "I remember a time he would have been happy to just have him killed, now he wants it by his own hand" Or something of the like. True Power insanity has a stable background in Ishy/Moridin/Ba'alzaman.

But it wasn't built up for many books. Demandred wanted LTT dead, by his hand or another. Saying that he has changed recently is noting a change, but not explaining it. Consequently, it comes across more as a handwave to justify a difference in his character than it does as an actual example of character development. And Ishamael, unlike all the other Chosen, is noted for his extensive, almost exclusive, use of the TP - all the others display reluctance to use it, and are well aware of the dangers. They shouldn't have the same addiction or insanity resulting from it as Ishy did. What build up was there? Why the change in character? I had a similar problem with the last Mistborn book, where the Lord Ruler being insane is tossed in, almost as an excuse for his actions, and doesn't really feel like a natural development of his character. Insanity is not a "get out of jail free card", that excuses any and all out of character actions. What signs of insanity do we really see from Demandred? Compare that with Rand's insanity, something which really was built up over several books. Demandred can be considered insane in the way B movie villains are - not suffering from a recognised mental condition, so much as a blanket excuse for any illogical actions, with no defining symptoms. We are left with Demandred's character having changed, but no real explanation as to why.

 

Girl, Demandred's irrational hatred for LTT was mentioned way freaking back in book 6 by Semirhage in the same PoV in which we learn she, Mesaana, and Demandred are in an "alliance." It was nothing new.

 

I may have been wrong but I was always under the impression Demandred had an irrational hatred for LTT. It was because of that he turned to the shadow in the first place wasnt it?

 

Exactly. So to act like that was something that came out of nowhere in this book is just wrong. IMO, Demandred's thoughts about LTT were pretty much in line with what had already been established by Jordan.

[CanUFeelTheLove?]

Yeah, I thought he went bad because of his rivalry with LTT. The fact that someone is so highly competitive with a certain someone that they literally sell their soul to the devil might be construed as irrational and bat s@#$ crazy.

[Brendan Moody]

Yes, Demandred hated and was jealous of Lews Therin and transferred those feelings to Rand. But prior to the Sanderson takeover, there was none of this "I must kill him! Me! MEEEEE!" business. In Winter's Heart he orders Kisman to kill Rand, hardly the action of a man insistent on doing it himself. Then at the cleansing he hopes to be the one to kill Rand, but doesn't go into a rage at the thought of someone else doing it. In Knife of Dreams Moridin announces that he will be the one to plan Rand's death, and Demandred doesn't have a hissy fit. It's only in the prologue to The Gathering Storm that Demandred starts behaving that way. It was apparently pointed out to Sanderson that this was counter to how Jordan had written the character, which is why the Moghedien POV in the prologue to A Memory of Light introduces the notion that he has changed. But unless "River of Souls" elaborates on that, it's just a fig leaf, and even then, I think this sort of thing belongs in the book itself, not a "deleted scene" almost no one will read.

[Semirhage666]

Yes, Demandred hated and was jealous of Lews Therin and transferred those feelings to Rand. But prior to the Sanderson takeover, there was none of this "I must kill him! Me! MEEEEE!" business. In Winter's Heart he orders Kisman to kill Rand, hardly the action of a man insistent on doing it himself. Then at the cleansing he hopes to be the one to kill Rand, but doesn't go into a rage at the thought of someone else doing it. In Knife of Dreams Moridin announces that he will be the one to plan Rand's death, and Demandred doesn't have a hissy fit. It's only in the prologue to The Gathering Storm that Demandred starts behaving that way. It was apparently pointed out to Sanderson that this was counter to how Jordan had written the character, which is why the Moghedien POV in the prologue to A Memory of Light introduces the notion that he has changed. But unless "River of Souls" elaborates on that, it's just a fig leaf, and even then, I think this sort of thing belongs in the book itself, not a "deleted scene" almost no one will read.

I hardly think Demandred's fixation on killing LTT is at all among the foremost problems with this book though. I had absolutely 0 disappointment with the last 2 at all, I thought they were well done, nothing truly glaring stuck out at me. THIS one however, is a [removed], and Demandred's fixation is something that could easily be believed to have developed off-page seeing as he's had very little page time in the first place. I'm more concerned about why the hell Leane just randomly appears with a PoV after being captured by a frelling Forsaken and that experience was summarized in a paragraph by her thinking "My captivity was, like totes unpleasant." I'm more concerned with Canler being in a party one minute, the PoV character thinking "everyone was still alive" after the party is attacked, the party escaping, and Canler being never mentioned again. I'm more concerned with Moiraine's specific presence being necessary to save the world and then all she does with Rand is stand around in a circle. Anyone could have done that.

[Suttree]

 

 

. I'm more concerned with Moiraine's specific presence being necessary to save the world and then all she does with Rand is stand around in a circle. Anyone could have done that.

Per the author Moiraine had to be present for the meeting at the FoM so Rand and Egwene worked together instead of separately. All would have been lost had she not been there.

[Sid]

 

 

. I'm more concerned with Moiraine's specific presence being necessary to save the world and then all she does with Rand is stand around in a circle. Anyone could have done that.

Per the author Moiraine had to be present for the meeting at the FoM so Rand and Egwene worked together instead of separately. All would have been lost had she not been there.

Haven't read the whole thread, because of how long it is and how much time of mine AMoL has already wasted.

 

Thinking on Moiraine's role in 'saving the world', and what she did while linked with Rand (almost a non-entity) the only possible explanation was her being necessary for Merrilor to not fall completely apart.  Apparently if what Sutt said is true, then that is indeed confirmed.  The fact that it needed to be confirmed makes it pretty obvious that the scene was horribly botched from that standpoint at least.  That was supposed to be a scene on which the future of everyone was hinged, and it just kind of happened.  As long as Egwene signed Rand's 'document' (I believe they called it that once or twice).  So then I was waiting for her to do something later, and there was next to nothing.

 

This one took a lot less time for the euphoria to wear off when I finished than TGS or ToM.  It was less than half a day before I was leaning back to the viewpoint of it being better if it hadn't been done.  AMoL took the tapestry of the WoT and frayed almost every edge it bothered to mention, which were actually a small minority of the threads left hanging from ToM or earlier.

[Suttree]

@sid

 

Here you go mate, one of the answers touching on this topic...

 

Brandon

 

Moiraine’s prophecied purpose during the Last Battle was to stop Egwene and Rand from going to The Last Battle separately instead of together.

[Vambram]

 

@sid

 

Here you go mate, one of the answers touching on this topic...

 

Brandon

 

Moiraine’s prophecied purpose during the Last Battle was to stop Egwene and Rand from going to The Last Battle separately instead of together.

 

In my opinion, that scene was very well done. I had no idea whether or not Rand and Egwene could resolve their differences until Moiraine arrived to save the day by quoting prophecies and convincing The Dragon Reborn and the Amyrlin Seat to compromise and work together.

[Suttree]

Well the scene wasn't written all that well. The plotwork was very heavy handed and blunt, while the characters almost came off like parodies of themselves.  Moiraine comes in spouting off prophecies like a school teacher/spiritual guide, prophecies everyone has just spend months studying mind. This is one of the scenes that certainly could have used a more nuanced touch.

[Vambram]

They may have been studying those prophecies, but it was very apparent to me that they had forgotten those prophecies while arguing, or at the very least, forgotten how what their interpretations of those prophecies were.

 

Moiraine came in and reminded them, everyone not just Egwene and Rand, what are the correct interpretations of the prophecies.

 

The characters may have come off as blunt and heavy handed because they allowed their emotions to control themselves, thus falling back into old habitual interactions between the two of them since their Emonds Field days. 

[Sid]

What I'm saying is that after the scene is over, I didn't feel like the Light had just dodged a bullet.  My heart wasn't in my throat, I wasn't frustrated at either or even both of the people arguing, really.  It was pretty blah.  The word 'Moiraine' provoked a bit of an emotional response, but after that I was reading people talking at each other as usual.  Then there's no small secret smile (or anything) from her as she watched everyone sign their oaths to follow the Dragon Reborn, likely the answer to one or the other of her interactions with the Finns.  It was a hastily drawn sketch of a scene, still awaiting the expertly mixed hues of the artist to reveal the whole thing. 

 

I know it was Egwene's PoV before and think it was Perrin's after she came in, which should have worked since Perrin has known both Egwene and Rand for his whole life (it was Perrin, right?) but it could have been any onlooker's, really, from what we got.  There were very few instances where I felt I was in a character's shoes in AMoL.  It was more like I was only looking through their eyes and ears.  We get more internal characterization from a Areo Hotah pov in ASoIaF than most chapters of AMoL, which just ain't right.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Sid,

Believe the word you're looking for, in so far as it applies to what you're saying, is "Flat."

Or perhaps, as it could apply also, a videographic parallel of the lack of depth, as far as scenes & characterization in AMoL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TLmJhXhUEg   (Watch out, there's f-bombs within).

[rane008]

"I was satisfied with AMoL. It gave me an ending. It was like eating 50 nuggets from McDonald's, you are not exactly happy with what you just did (whilethe same time kind of proud), but you are no longer hungry."
 

Ahahahahahaha!  Nice metaphor, ReDJeLLo