Asmodean

[Barid Bel Medar]

It doesn't count. He was replaced by a robot. 

[Suttree]

It doesn't count. He was replaced by a robot. 

 

[EmperorAllspice]

Oh man. Demandred actually getting to do crap was why I was looking forward to AMOL.

 

After getting to do sod all in the WH fight but show up, get pushed back and go "Screw this. I'm out"

[Michael Wentz]

Was I the only one who thought Asmodean was gay?  I somehow missed that he was occasionally sleeping with Isendre in my first read-through, but I still think he plays for the other team...

[EmperorAllspice]

and where did that come from? He didn't seem particularly flamboyant. You don't need to be camp to be gay but still, the impression normally comes from somewhere.

[Michael Wentz]

Probably stereotypes.  I went to music school, being surrounded by gay dudes 24/7.  Seeing a musician in the series just made me instinctively think that.

Also, there was a "big deal" made about him severing his mother in the BWB, the only parent-related anything having to do with a Forsaken, and (another stereotype, and a false one at that) gay guys tend to love their mothers.  So the fact that that was specifically mentioned stood out to me.

Also, he seemed to have attached himself to Lanfear and Graendal, both of whom I have no doubt would have legions of loyal gays if they were celebrities in the modern day.

[EmperorAllspice]

Wait, did he attach himself to Lanfear? I thought Lanfear kinda went "You're coming with me" and he went "kay" because he valued not being a neat little pile of dust.

 

Though actually, are there any gay men in WOT?

[Michael Wentz]

I guess I was using "attached" and "followed" to mean almost the same thing, but they are quite different, you're right.
 

 

 

There are two mentioned in AMoL, but only one has been seen before, and neither are very major characters.

 

[Agitel]

Wait, did he attach himself to Lanfear? I thought Lanfear kinda went "You're coming with me" and he went "kay" because he valued not being a neat little pile of dust.

 

Though actually, are there any gay men in WOT?

 

It's addressed in the series...

[Plato]

Haha I thought Asmo was gay too... but apparently there are no gays in Randland until the last battle.

[clutzyninja]

Just because RJ didn't make it a point to bring up doesn't mean the characters weren't gay.  Does it matter anyway?

[Suttree]

Just because RJ didn't make it a point to bring up doesn't mean the characters weren't gay.  Does it matter anyway?

 

Only in that it would add realism to the story

 

Look we know from RJ's quote that there are gay male characters in his story

 

As I sad before what struck some as unrealistic is the female only portrayal of these relationships. Anything in my mind that fleshes out the story, adds more detail, adds more realism is a good thing

 

I have gay and lesbian characters in my books, but the only time it has really come into the open is with the Aes Sedai because I haven’t been inside the heads of any other characters who are either gay or bi. For the most part, in this world such things are taken as a matter of course.

 

- The Official Robert Jordan Blog, October 6, 2005

 

 

This thread was locked but people can get the gist of the arguments.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/57844-discuss-the-inclusion-of-a-gay-character/page-1?hl=gay character

[Yamezt]

There were off-screen gay clerks fired by that  Grey Amyrlin who had more than a touch of Red in New Spring - which Moiraine found the grounds for their removal absurd

[Nick Trano]

Moiraine and Siuan were "pillow friends" which involved a lot of snuggling under covers. And apparently it wasn't an uncommon thing among young Aes Sedai according to New Spring, so there was some lesbianism.

[staven2228]

I really don't think it matters or not, what their orientation, for some of them it sounded as though the AoL had orgies that Graendal couldn't leave to the past, reminded me of ancient Greeks and Romans.

[Suttree]

Moiraine and Siuan were "pillow friends" which involved a lot of snuggling under covers. And apparently it wasn't an uncommon thing among young Aes Sedai according to New Spring, so there was some lesbianism.

The whole point of the discussion was that there was only gay females portrayed and no males.

[jedman67]

 

Moiraine and Siuan were "pillow friends" which involved a lot of snuggling under covers. And apparently it wasn't an uncommon thing among young Aes Sedai according to New Spring, so there was some lesbianism.

The whole point of the discussion was that there was only gay females portrayed and no males.

 

 RJ pointed out that he never intended to write a "token gay" in the wot for the sake of having a gay character, but if the right character developed and could also be gay, he wouldn't hesitate to put him in. In other words; they're there, we just haven't seen any yet.

[Suttree]

Well kinda, see the RJ quote and link of old discussions I provided earlier in thread. The "token" part for instance is something you seem to have added on.

[Plato]

Just because RJ didn't make it a point to bring up doesn't mean the characters weren't gay.  Does it matter anyway?

 

It doesn't matter.  I was just joking about there being none mentioned in the first 13 books, but then in the very last book we get a bunch. 

 

But by all means discuss the issue again! :P

[jedman67]

Well kinda, see the RJ quote and link of old discussions I provided earlier in thread. The "token" part for instance is something you seem to have added on.

that was my impression. he didnt want to write someone who was gay only to have a a gay character. - i.e. "token".

[clutzyninja]

AGain, I don't see how it matters.  If the story focused on evryone's relationships, rather than those of the main characters and a small handful of supporting characters, it may have come into play, but as it was, the vast majority of the character's sexual preferences simply does not matter.  As far as realism, there's a fine line.  We don't hear about characters pooping either, but I don't think the story suffers for it. 

[EmperorAllspice]

There's mention of characters wanting to soil themselves though. So the practice still technically exists =P

[Mr Ares]

 

 

Moiraine and Siuan were "pillow friends" which involved a lot of snuggling under covers. And apparently it wasn't an uncommon thing among young Aes Sedai according to New Spring, so there was some lesbianism.

The whole point of the discussion was that there was only gay females portrayed and no males.

 RJ pointed out that he never intended to write a "token gay" in the wot for the sake of having a gay character, but if the right character developed and could also be gay, he wouldn't hesitate to put him in. In other words; they're there, we just haven't seen any yet.

A justification that seems somewhat hollow when you consider the number of women whose lesbian relationships are worthy of mention, no matter how limited their relevance to the plot or how minor the character, while male homosexuality seems to need an excuse to include it. I don't think he was being consciously discriminatory, but it's not implausible he was sufficiently uncomfortable about the whole thing that he just found excuses to avoid mentioning the sexuality of male homosexuals.

[clutzyninja]

 

 

 

Moiraine and Siuan were "pillow friends" which involved a lot of snuggling under covers. And apparently it wasn't an uncommon thing among young Aes Sedai according to New Spring, so there was some lesbianism.

The whole point of the discussion was that there was only gay females portrayed and no males.

 RJ pointed out that he never intended to write a "token gay" in the wot for the sake of having a gay character, but if the right character developed and could also be gay, he wouldn't hesitate to put him in. In other words; they're there, we just haven't seen any yet.

A justification that seems somewhat hollow when you consider the number of women whose lesbian relationships are worthy of mention, no matter how limited their relevance to the plot or how minor the character, while male homosexuality seems to need an excuse to include it. I don't think he was being consciously discriminatory, but it's not implausible he was sufficiently uncomfortable about the whole thing that he just found excuses to avoid mentioning the sexuality of male homosexuals.

 

Thoe only time so-called "lesbian relationships" are mentioned is when talking about young AS being pillow friends, and that, as far as I can recall, was only in the contect of describing two adults that used to be very close when they were young, and keeping that in mind for how closely they may communicate presently, despite outward appearances.  The male characters never had any such contect for details like this to be revealed.

[Suttree]

 We don't hear about characters pooping either, but I don't think the story suffers for it. 

 

Actually RJ had a bit of fun with that particular complaint:

 

KoD

  

 At the table, he held her chair for her, but she remained standing, looking at him. “You may do very well in Seandar,” she said finally, thrusting her nearly empty mug at him. “Guard this until I return.”

   He straightened in alarm. “Where are you going?” He trusted her not to run away, but not to stay out of trouble without him there to pull her out of it.

   She put on a long-suffering face. Even that was beautiful. “If you must know, I am going to the necessary, Toy.”

 

 

Thoe only time so-called "lesbian relationships" are mentioned is when talking about young AS being pillow friends, and that, as far as I can recall, was only in the contect of describing two adults that used to be very close when they were young, and keeping that in mind for how closely they may communicate presently, despite outward appearances.

 

That isn't correct, it certainly isn't the only context in which lesbians/lesbian relationships are mentioned.

 

Regardless not sure what the issue is with BS including gay men in the story. We know they exist and are taken as a matter of course in this world. RJ said we just hadn't been in the head of any, now we have.