(BASIC): The Perfect Pizza Town wins

[michellem]

No mafia would never do anything that comes with a risk of being called out of it.

[michellem]

*called out FOR it

[Hallia]

That's true.  Look at what Yates did in that last game, fair enough

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i'm a bit leery of "no ____ would ever ____ " statements anywhere in life.  but i have no idea what yates did.

[WolfbrotherKronos]

Peace...what's up with the votes without explanations?

[Kaylee]

Peace...what's up with the votes without explanations?

You have no other comments in what is going on?

[peacesells]

Is Mish somehow confirmed VT or is she just acting like she is?

 

Did I miss something?

[Kaylee]

Des: I kind of see your point.

 

Tink makes a good point.

[Kaylee]

Is Mish somehow confirmed VT or is she just acting like she is?

 

Did I miss something?

Skimming? Berf made some points that make sense on the matter.

[peacesells]

 

Is Mish somehow confirmed VT or is she just acting like she is?

 

Did I miss something?

Skimming? Berf made some points that make sense on the matter.

 

 

Just because those 2 didn't check in on the night phase that makes them vanilla town?

[Kaylee]

Yes, that's the point he's making.

[Tiinker]

K. Well, that's a ridiculous statement.

[peacesells]

K. Well, that's a ridiculous statement.

 

I agree,  Also think Mish's indignation is suspect.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

major logical flaw... many... in the confirmed VT mythlet. speculation is fine. but that's all it is.

 

and yeah, it seems like the point of that exchange may have been to hammer that possibility so that it would be taken as fact.

 

or maybe it was genuine indignation but if so, it only served to shine a light on something supposedly better off hidden?

 

except... there's no conclusion to be made over that speculation.

 

2+2 does not = 22.

 

pretty sure,

[berf]

Hullo and good morning. Thoughts incoming.

 

Unvote

[berf]

Vote Mish

 

"No mafia would ever do anything that comes with a risk of being called out for it"

 

You claim my case on Desp is reaching, and the only reason I went through with it is because I had 'put myself' in a situation that I couldn't get out of. I could have Unvoted at any time, you must realise. Prior to posting the case. Simple. Nobody was expecting me to say anything, I could have stayed shut up and safe. I made that case because I believed it.

 

So if I was mafia, and I knew my case was a reach, why would I post it?

 

 

I also find it interesting how you are very upset about revealing potential VT's, and are completely yet to look at the mafia hunting aspect of it. Not a single word. It's all been about you soft claiming a VT and being outraged. If you didn't want to get into it at all, leave it be. You could have joined the train and nobody would really press you, seeing as you got away with a pretty soft vote on Tiinks earlier, due to his 'obvious' mafia play. 

 

 

You say it yourself - no mafia would ever get themselves called out - So why would I post the trigger information?

 

Very contradictory thoughts. Such as "I'll cut you some slack... Vote berf". 

 

And the whole thing - the triggers - is moot anyway, because you are mafia. Which you knew going into this back and forth, and your responses read like it when i went back and had a look.

 

*nod*

[berf]

And I will be available for questioning for the next few hours. I didn't play a great game yesterday

 

Desp I am still wary of. I will admit to some big gaps in that case though, and cop it correctly. I am however willing to move on as I obviously think Mish has revealed herself.

 

 

Teehee

 

 

And I wasn't aware of any emo, but if there's smoke, there's fire. I'll be wary. My hair would make a perfect emo swoop and by gods someone chop my head off if it does.

[Darthe]

Pushing that hard on a townie you expect to die doesn't seem a good mafia move, thus I am going to trust Mish's lapse in logic to simply be that.

 

Berf doesn't look like mafia to me.  I am highly suspect of how quickly his train built and why people are both trying to kill and listening to the cases on despo.

 

Also, Tress has stated that she finds Des scummy when he is town and too clean when he is scum.  I knew this.  My pushes on her were to see her reactions.  Thus, if he is mafia then she is almost certainly town imo (though it doesn't help any if he is town).

 

My cloud pushes were obviously based on nothing, thus unvote vote Des for being mafia.

[michellem]

Berf, that post of mine you're quoting was pure sarcasm.

[Basel Gill]

Vote count:

 

Berf (5): Krak, Kronos, Des, Peace, Mish

Mish (1): Berf

Kronos (1): Tiink

Tiink (1): Hally

Des (1): Darthe

 

Not voting (4): Panchi, Tress, Kaylee, Cindy

 

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is Tues. Jul. 23rd at 9 PM EST.

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130723T21&p0=422

[Songstress]

H'okay, so.  Just finished going back through and taking notes.  Thankfully, this time I didn't have to start at 78 pages in

 

General thoughts:

 

Panchi needs to come talk to us or request a replacement.

 

Peace is Wombatting it out of the park™ this game.

 

Cindy is doing some extraordinary fence sitting. I haven't seen an opinion yet that hasn't been qualified with an "or maybe".  Except that there are some apparently large logic flaws in the suggestion that those who did not check in before the triggers were hit are VT - large logic flaws that she apparently thinks are so obvious that they don't need to be explained.  Oh, and Berf's "emo" reads as "genuine town emo" to her, while Despo's does not.  I'm getting some significant pings from this one.

 

Kaylee is also doing a pretty good job at refusing to take a position...

 

Peace...what's up with the votes without explanations?

You have no other comments in what is going on?

 

So far as I can see, Kaylee has been fence sitting (but she admitted it! so she's not scum!) on Despo and Darthe (post 160)... Then after saying here she doesn't know what to think of either of them she contradicts that by saying she's finding Despo suspicious for the same reason as Berf (bandwagoning or encouraging bandwagoning)... Oh and she's leaning town on Cindy!  

 

No vote yet on anyone, mind you, but after the above prod at Kronos, suddenly she has thoughts - vague as they may be...

 

Des: I kind of see your point.

 

Tink makes a good point.

 

Sister dear, if you're not going to quote the posts, can you at least summarize the content of the points that you are agreeing with? Despo has made several points.  With a lot of words.  

 

I'm assuming that the point of Tink's you find agreeable is his question why Berf wouldn't have just put it in the mafia QT if he was trying to narrow down town PR's as mafia - is that the one?

 

So Kaylee, do tell.  What do you think now about Despo?  What point of his do you agree with?  

 

Do you think Berf is mafia?  How about Mish?  Was Berf's initial suggestion that those who did not check in N0 ended up vanilla town reasonable, or bogus? 

 

And what about me?  Do you think I was buddying Despo with my comment about his meta?  What did you think about Darthe, Despo and Berf all suggesting that I am mafia?  

 

Next, on to the biggest ping of my re-read... 

[Songstress]

This right here:
 

The Cheerleading lynches thread is exactly why I put that train.gif and vote up Desp. You need to lighten up. Anyway - copy paste of my notes so far. Desp is doing something scum with each step he takes. 
 
My intention was to post the vote/train out and see what happens. I've been active on DM but avoiding this thread mostly to let it play it out. I was expecting Desp to flip out. I was expecting him town and to rail. Instead he is playing very cold and calculated, but attempting to soften with smileys and jokes and such. I wanted to shake the tree, the tree being desp, and have a look at what happens. Darthe came in, so did Peace. Both are smartasses like myself, and prolly bandwagoned to twist the knife a little after the emo threads going up lately and the collective responses to them.
 
Anyway rambling. Case notes:
 
First inclination of Desp being scum was the vote on Tress. Opportunistic, target comes in and places a vote, but mostly agreeing with everyone else's thoughts, which is fair enough. But I read it as voting a team mate who has jumped in to start running interference, so he doesn't want to vote too hard, obviously.
 
Says this:
 
 
 

"I do try acting a little scummy early in games as town to try and avoid NK's, but her mentioning that midgame could easily be an attempt to buddy to me or to gain town cred on my flip"

 
I hope I don't need to tell you what is wrong with this. "Please don't vote me if I appear mafia."
 

 

"Berf: leaning slightly scum. His obvious bandwagon vote accompanied with the blatant cheerleading stuff seems a lot like an attempt to provoke me. Ever since the end of the Merlin mafia game he has had a hard on for trying to show up and contradict me."

 
For a start, I didn't bandwagon. I started the damn train. And it's hard not to be excited when you make such a perfect ass out of yourself every time And again, welcome to the joke. It's not about contradicting you, it's about you accepting all playstyles.
 

 

"Krak: leaning slightly scum. His "Oh you two..." comment seemed like it could a been scum enjoying hanging back and watching two townies bicker at each other."

 
Reaching. Why would mafia make such an easily twisted statement like that? Krak being Krak. Introducing a random target by the way. Krak hasn't been on the radar at all.
 

 

"Kaylee: leaning town. Don't think she would have posted such an obvious fence-sitting post as scum."

 

Also at the top of the post Desp calls Darthe town. Darthe I can understand, but town reads this early are always alarm bells. For the people with them, I should clarify. 
 
For a start, this statement shows he is thinking about what mafia would and wouldn't do, yet calls Krak scum as above. Contradictory. Unthoughtful. 
 
Posts of a man at l-4 with a lot of time yet to go, and only one other viable target who may or may not be on mafia team (Tress). 
 
More posts after Mish begs him to step from the ledge.
"I don't wanna die but there are worse targets so I am totally OK with it you guyz"
 
IE - "I'm totes town come rescue me" A little violin might as well be playing.
 
Then - Contradictory post about asking peeps to vote Tress. IE I don't want to start a train, but totally start a train.
 
Called out by Cindy, whom Desp has said nothing about. I also didn't notice any posts about Darthe, Kronos, or peace, and only kronos is not voting him at this point out of those three. Obviously doesn't want to draw in more players to his situation by provoking them into at least looking at him by mentioning them.
 
I then comment saying my vote isn't moving.
 
Kronos comes in, votes me for JOINING the despo train. (Thought I started the despo train?)
 
Mish randoms and votes Tiinker. Hallie backs it up.
 
Both soft.
 
Desp then lists a few targets he has found to be buddying to him, and yet can see the chance of a train on me, switches to me. At this stage I have two game posts. One a joke train GIF, and the other confirming my suspicions of him.
 

 
 
So yeah. My vote is comfy.
 
Desp scum, Tress scum, eyes on Mish and Hall. 
 
 
By the way, the only two people who DIDN'T post before the Triggers were all met were Krak and Mish. Kronos even left Mish off his initial read-list too. 
 
That is all.

 

 

I have to point out that this was before his complete 180 deciding that Mish had to be mafia because of her responses to the trigger thing.

 

At this point, he was working off the theory that because Mish and Krak did not check in during N0 before the triggers were met, that they were not assigned a mafia or town power role, and had to be vanilla town.  I was actually contemplating the same possibility for scumhunting, but did not think it was prudent to throw it out in the open.  

 

But yet immediately before he put that out in the thread for everyone to think about, he made a point of FOS'ing Mish and Hallia for their votes on Tink.

 

You're keeping your eyes on someone that you in the very next sentence point out that you believe to be vanilla town?

 

Ping.  Major ping.  Logic fail, Berf.

 

Mish made a very good point about the case on Despo feeling forced, and suddenly Berf backs off of his Despo case, says "my bad, I was off my game yesterday" and is 100% convinced his theory about the triggers is wrong because now Mish MUST be mafia?

 

I don't buy it, big boy.

 

Vote Berf

[Darthe]

Berf isn't mafia...

 

It is really simple to see to anyone using logic.  

[Songstress]

Outline it instead of implying insults, then.

[Darthe]

 

Hey hey now my pms ended already. You should know this, you helped me change my tampon

 

On a serious note, it's like I said. You've been extremely easy to peg as scum lately. I don't mind sheeping you for now since your town instincts have been good. If it turns out you're scum, I'll figure it out before too long. You like me too much and the challenge of going up against me as scum, so I don't think you'd NK me early if you were mafia.

 

Plus, a wagon is really the only way to get past the RVS stage. As much as I don't mind the chatty too much, I also like it when games move into the serious stage somewhat quickly.

 

I will say Darthe, you do seem to be jumping at shadows just a bit. Makes me wonder... you did try pretty hard to set off some of those triggers.... did you get a juicy mafia role?

 

Very well...

 

ALL ABOARD THE DESPO TRAIN!!

 

DEPARTING STATION 2 AT FORTY-SIX PAST NINE.

 

CHOOO CHOOOOOOO!!

 

VOTE DESP

 

 

 

 

 

Pretty easy.  This is a joke poking at Des's emotional play lately.

 

Oh and yes, the artist formerly known as Ashaman DeRouge is meeeeeeeee.

 

So if you see any posts kicking around from ancient times with a Blue, Red and Gold mask?

 

<- This BAMF.

 

Another joke.  Followed by agreement with my logic on the Des lynch.

 

Whelp, my vote isn't moving.

 

THIS IS ALL OF HIS POSTS PRE-Des Case.  How did this garner four votes?  This is everything between him getting a role PM and getting run up, which conveniently pulled everyone away from the Des lynch.

 

 

The Cheerleading lynches thread is exactly why I put that train.gif and vote up Desp. You need to lighten up. Anyway - copy paste of my notes so far. Desp is doing something scum with each step he takes. 

 

My intention was to post the vote/train out and see what happens. I've been active on DM but avoiding this thread mostly to let it play it out. I was expecting Desp to flip out. I was expecting him town and to rail. Instead he is playing very cold and calculated, but attempting to soften with smileys and jokes and such. I wanted to shake the tree, the tree being desp, and have a look at what happens. Darthe came in, so did Peace. Both are smartasses like myself, and prolly bandwagoned to twist the knife a little after the emo threads going up lately and the collective responses to them.

 

Anyway rambling. Case notes:

 

First inclination of Desp being scum was the vote on Tress. Opportunistic, target comes in and places a vote, but mostly agreeing with everyone else's thoughts, which is fair enough. But I read it as voting a team mate who has jumped in to start running interference, so he doesn't want to vote too hard, obviously.

 

Says this:

 

 

 

"I do try acting a little scummy early in games as town to try and avoid NK's, but her mentioning that midgame could easily be an attempt to buddy to me or to gain town cred on my flip"

 

I hope I don't need to tell you what is wrong with this. "Please don't vote me if I appear mafia."

 

 

"Berf: leaning slightly scum. His obvious bandwagon vote accompanied with the blatant cheerleading stuff seems a lot like an attempt to provoke me. Ever since the end of the Merlin mafia game he has had a hard on for trying to show up and contradict me."

 

For a start, I didn't bandwagon. I started the damn train. And it's hard not to be excited when you make such a perfect ass out of yourself every time And again, welcome to the joke. It's not about contradicting you, it's about you accepting all playstyles.

 

 

"Krak: leaning slightly scum. His "Oh you two..." comment seemed like it could a been scum enjoying hanging back and watching two townies bicker at each other."

 

Reaching. Why would mafia make such an easily twisted statement like that? Krak being Krak. Introducing a random target by the way. Krak hasn't been on the radar at all.

 

 

"Kaylee: leaning town. Don't think she would have posted such an obvious fence-sitting post as scum."

 

Also at the top of the post Desp calls Darthe town. Darthe I can understand, but town reads this early are always alarm bells. For the people with them, I should clarify. 

 

For a start, this statement shows he is thinking about what mafia would and wouldn't do, yet calls Krak scum as above. Contradictory. Unthoughtful. 

 

Posts of a man at l-4 with a lot of time yet to go, and only one other viable target who may or may not be on mafia team (Tress). 

 

More posts after Mish begs him to step from the ledge.

"I don't wanna die but there are worse targets so I am totally OK with it you guyz"

 

IE - "I'm totes town come rescue me" A little violin might as well be playing.

 

Then - Contradictory post about asking peeps to vote Tress. IE I don't want to start a train, but totally start a train.

 

Called out by Cindy, whom Desp has said nothing about. I also didn't notice any posts about Darthe, Kronos, or peace, and only kronos is not voting him at this point out of those three. Obviously doesn't want to draw in more players to his situation by provoking them into at least looking at him by mentioning them.

 

I then comment saying my vote isn't moving.

 

Kronos comes in, votes me for JOINING the despo train. (Thought I started the despo train?)

 

Mish randoms and votes Tiinker. Hallie backs it up.

 

Both soft.

 

Desp then lists a few targets he has found to be buddying to him, and yet can see the chance of a train on me, switches to me. At this stage I have two game posts. One a joke train GIF, and the other confirming my suspicions of him.

 

 

 

So yeah. My vote is comfy.

 

Desp scum, Tress scum, eyes on Mish and Hall. 

 

 

By the way, the only two people who DIDN'T post before the Triggers were all met were Krak and Mish. Kronos even left Mish off his initial read-list too. 

 

That is all.

 

 

This is a case on Des.  Some things are stated incorrectly in it, but being wrong does not equal being mafia.  Further, since he was garnering votes by this point, badgering other players and putting out reads calmly (not to mention proposing unpopular ideas that could get you lynched) are each individually opposite of what mafia would want to do.  All together they are the exact contradiction of mafia play in the face of heat.

 

And I can't see the pic, just to further ruin your day

 

 

Hey that was post 222, my lucky number. It's all adding up

 

 

Whelp, looks like I'm done for.

 

These are quoted because I am quoting every post he had.  Thus far he has five votes and he hasn't fought it.  Mafia again does not do this.  He just gave up.  He clearly feels that his death information outweighs his life, which is enough on its own to tell mafia that hie is vanilla.

 

Part two incoming.