Am I the only one who is pissed over the anticlimactic end to Fain's story?

[Mr Ares]

 

He doesn't have to have an epic role. Just a role. If he is being kept around, it should be for a purpose. Given that he served no purpose in the narrative, he should not have been in the last book, nor in ToM. Of course, killing him in WH is not an option for Brandon, so he has the guy alive and has to find something to do with him. Everyone is blaming Brandon and Team Jordan because it's their fault. If there was something in the notes about his role, they should use that role. If not, they should invent a role. But him being around with no purpose is not good writing. Him just not showing up again after WH would have been better - he's still a loose end, but he's not cluttering up the narrative for no reason.

 

Unless RJ did specifically write what Fain's role was to be and BS and TJ carried out that role.  Blaming BS and TJ is based upon speculation.

No, it's based on Brandon writing the book. As I said, the character has to serve a role in the narrative, or else why is he there? If RJ explicitly said "Fain shows up, does nothing and dies. He serves no useful purpose, and should only fill up space and not drive the story forward in any way, no matter how small.", then Brandon should have ignored him and written a better ending. If RJ left little to go on, Brandon should have invented more. Again, I do not require Fain be a big part of the solution, only that he serve a purpose.

[Zhon]

[Removed]

 

On top of that, well before Sanderson ever took over other characters were built up and then killed in an even shorter time and with less impact than Fain was.  Remember Couladin was kept around for a while too before being killed, and with even less overall impact.  On top of that Couladin was killed off in the story's background, with details only showing up after Mat had already decapitated the guy and even those bits were short and sketchy.  It's not too much of a stretch to think Robert Jordan would plan the same for Fain as well.

 

Besides, the way his death happened made sense.  For all of Fain's power, for all the strength of Mashadar at his disposal, he was still bound to a mortal body with a mortal need for food, drink and pumping blood.  And Mat was fast enough to strike before Fain could respond - which is a good thing, because if he hadn't been that fast at killing Fain then he would have been surrounded by diseased undead puppets in a heartbeat and slaughtered.  No more Mat, no more Last Battle, and then the Pattern boils down to a contest between the Dark One and Fain for who can corrupt the world the most.

 

The only thing I would have liked to see was a bit more of Fain before his death.  More of his impact on the forces at the Last Battle, or perhaps his path through the Blight and through the Dark One's forces to reach Shayol Ghul.  His death wasn't the problem as far as I've seen, it was the lack of events preceding his death.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Please stay on topic. Future posts with off-topic/attacks will be removed completely. 

[Guest godplex]

Hello I have been obsessed with WoT for about a decade . First post .  I have seen a lot of negative writing on various reviews / forums / reddit on how " Brandon Sanderson " did not do Padan Fain justice overall , and especially in The Last Battle for development, content , or closure. I have to strongly disagree and explain for there is much appreciation to be had in this detail . Padan had 2 goals from the beginning, kill The Dark One and Rand . He was the only truly isolated character in the series . He trounces around killing in his path ( eventually everything in his path ) trying to eat The Pattern . This is how we were left with him during The last Battles wind up . Poor Padan , cannot channel . Through his journeys at some point he ascertained that Rand and The Dark One are going to be in the same place trying to kill each other ! So he walks to Shayol Ghul more vastly consuming everything he comes across and expanding his essence to feast . I loved it . It was perfect . The Trinity each get paired with a major direct threat to the cause . Would Padan not eventually consume the world ? He is scary . Matt has a hot knife so why not go kill him ? I will also point out that The Trio are some what responsible for his real transformation so it is fitting . Wow first post is easy to ramble on ! Poor Padan cannot channel = c   . It took him a very very very long time to walk to the top of the  map plainly , how much did the time distortion add?  . There is nothing to write about that . Padan was on a mission , we were informed when something changed =) . Perfectly written .

 

 

TL:DR

   Padan Fain was a simple man

 

 

 

PS: I love Padan Fain 

[Mr Ares]

Padan Fain wasn't even in the last book - he was replaced by Shaisam. When we see him in AMoL, he has changed drastically since we last saw him, and then is very abruptly killed off. So we were not informed when something changed, we saw after the fact that he had undergone profound change. That's not perfectly written.

[Cybertrolloc]

RJ didn't do much with him either (he was vestigial by book 7 or 8--yes he should have still been able to be a threat, but meh). His PoVs sure were fun though, especially 4-6.

[EmperorAllspice]

I never liked Fain. He kinda stole time from antagonists I thought were more interesting (I liked the plotting and power of the Forsaken. And even that I thought was underutilized.)

[Mr Ares]

RJ didn't do much with him either (he was vestigial by book 7 or 8--yes he should have still been able to be a threat, but meh). His PoVs sure were fun though, especially 4-6.

But in RJ's case you can at least claim he's being kept around for a reason, that he has a part to play - then he does nothing and dies in the last book.

[Finnssss22]

 

RJ didn't do much with him either (he was vestigial by book 7 or 8--yes he should have still been able to be a threat, but meh). His PoVs sure were fun though, especially 4-6.

But in RJ's case you can at least claim he's being kept around for a reason, that he has a part to play - then he does nothing and dies in the last book.

 

 

And that claim is based on what exactly?

Must have been in all those PoV's and mentions of Fain in RJ's last 2 books...opps, there weren't any.

 

The only possible purpose for Fain remaining after Rand chased him away in WH was to serve in some way to be used by Rand to defeat the DO. Since RJ wrote the ending and quite obviously Fain had no part in it, his purpose (which IMO was to serve as an added protagonist that would push the 3 boys faster and prepare them further than the Shadow alone would have, Fain was instrumental in each of the boys quick advancement and played a direct role in the path each took) was outlived as he too would soon be.

[Suttree]

This has been covered many times but two things to highlight.

 

1. Contrary to what is said above, Fain is mentioned in every book except for CoT.

 

2. RJ did not write all of the ending. Brandon expanded on it a good deal and said he would have perhaps done more with Fain given more time. That combined with his transformation, followed by the abrupt ending is simply bad execution. More so if we agree that his purpose was long done.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Welcome to the forums, I hope you enjoy your stay. 

 

However, I'll have to move this discussion to the relevant thread and add it on to that. Feel free to look through the multitude of posts on this topic. 

 

As for everyone else - We've been through this whole Fain issue before, I don't need to tell you guys to keep it clean and civil. 

[Finnssss22]

This has been covered many times but two things to highlight.

 

1. Contrary to what is said above, Fain is mentioned in every book except for CoT.

 

2. RJ did not write all of the ending. Brandon expanded on it a good deal and said he would have perhaps done more with Fain given more time. That combined with his transformation, followed by the abrupt ending is simply bad execution. More so if we agree that his purpose was long done.

 

1. A single passing comment about Fain in KoD hardly qualifies. One easy question to answer...name a single thing Fain did or even said from the end of WH until RJ's passing?

 

2. You're right, RJ did not write ALL of the ending but he did relate how it was all going to go down in the Pit of Doom (and if he didn't write that scene, I'll eat my hat)  and that did NOT include Fain. Clearly Fain's end was going to come at the hands of either Perrin or Mat and have nothing to do with Rand and the Pit of Doom.

 

Fain never accomplished anything he planned whether through straight out failure or simple abandonment. In fact, anything that he did accomplish or that had any lasting effect was done spur of the moment without any real planning. That was his purpose, to introduce Chaos and propel the boys in their respective roles faster than they would have otherwise.

By the end of WH, the boys were well on their way and no longer needed any further pushing from Fain to get them where they needed to be and the Pattern had tightened up to such a degree than Fain's Chaos was no longer effective.

He was done and it was just a matter of time before the finality came.

All you have to support your point is the ramblings of a lunatic proclaiming his own greatness. These very same ramblings that he had been spouting for the first 9 books that amounted to a hill of beans. THEN, you decide to take them seriously...c'mon, where's the support that he should be taken seriously or at his word now? There is none!

[Suttree]

None of which addresses the actual topic raised which is about execution.

 

It's been mentioned numerous times in thread but I'm not sure why you persist in the straw man about "my point" as if I've ever said he had a large role to play with the ending. Do I really need to quote the multiple times in thread you've already been corrected on that point?

 

 In fact, anything that he did accomplish or that had any lasting effect was done spur of the moment without any real planning.

 

So you agree that contrary to what this recent poster said, that the power up and transformation of the character in these last books was simply bad plot work. His purpose had long since past, there was no reason to keep him around and his approach towards SG actually fits your quote above. That is what's being discussed, no one in these last couple pages has put forth the theory you seem to be arguing against.
 

[Finnssss22]

None of which addresses the actual point which is about execution.

 

It's been mentioned numerous times in thread but I'm not sure why you persist in the straw man about "my point" as if I've ever said he had a large role to play with the ending. Do I really need to quote the multiple times in thread you've already been corrected on that point?

 

 In fact, anything that he did accomplish or that had any lasting effect was done spur of the moment without any real planning.

 

So you agree that contrary to what this recent poster said, the the power up and transformation of the character in these last books was simply bad plot work. His purpose had long since past, there was no reason to keep him around and his approach towards SG actually fits your quote. That is what's being discussed, no one in these last couple pages has put forth the theory you seem to be arguing against.

 

 

No!

And that's not what you conveyed.

First you made of point of trying to disabuse my point that Fain had pretty much ZERO placement in RJ's last 2 books by saying he was mentioned. Of course, you didn't go into detail about that mention, that it was in fact a single sentence almost as an aside about Fain in passing.

 

Second, you called it bad execution. I don't think it was. Could BS have done more with Fain? Sure, but it also wasn't needed.

The whole point to Fain's death was that no matter how powerful he thought he was or how much we, the reader, believed him in this, he was killed quite easily and quite simply by Mat. This was a recurring theme with Fain since day 1 period!

 

 

The ONLY reason one could conclude it being bad execution is if we had a reason to believe that Fain was actually capable of succeeding in a grand scheme. Something that he was NEVER able to do in the previous 13 books,

As I already stated, any successes Fain ever had were of an impulsive, spur of the moment nature. Never from any plan or scheme and in fact every grand scheme or plan of Fain's failed in grand fashion every time. 

 

So again I ask, where's the evidence to support Fain succeeding now when all he has is spectacular failures on his resume?

 

I have laid out Fain's role, purpose and history and how it all leads up to and into his end. It all fits together and is supported over and over again.

 

All you come back with is this perceived "power up" only based on Fain's own words and thoughts. Basically, you took all the overwhelming evidence and reality leading up to that point and threw it out the window because Fain told you to.

Seriously, that's the basics of it.

[Suttree]

In relation to the mentions in text, you made an incorrect statement and were corrected. Not much to discuss there.

 

All you come back with is this perceived "power up" only based on Fain's own words and thoughts.

 

That's just being disingenuous. There is no question whatsoever that he had new powers and went through a transformation. Also why should Brandon have done even more with Fain? There was no reason to keep him around and that would have made the already shoddy plot work even worse.

[Finnssss22]

In relation to the mentions in text, you made an incorrect statement and were corrected. Not much to discuss there.

 

All you come back with is this perceived "power up" only based on Fain's own words and thoughts.

 

That's just being disingenuous. There is no question whatsoever that he had new powers and went through a transformation. Also why should Brandon have done even more with Fain? There was no reason to keep him around and that would have made the already shoddy plot work even worse.

 

Yep, you showed me up. A single offhand mention of Fain in passing over the course of 2 entire books. The point still stands, RJ did NOTHING with Fain for 2 whole books, end of story!

 

It's not being disingenuous. It's a matter of it not meaning anything. No one is saying that Fain wasn't continuing to explore his powers.

The actual point is what does that have to do with him being more successful?

He had exhibited various degrees of power from day 1.

He started out just being able to follow the Boys.

Then he is "combined" with the Evil of SL. Now he has limited control over Mashadar and is able to corrupt Shadowspawn to his will.

Then he shows the ability to kill with a single touch of the Dagger.

Then he shows an ability to create deadly Illusions creating a trap that Rand almost gets stuck in.

Then he shows an ability to corrupt people to varying degrees.

Now he shows a greater control over Mashadar. (the killing of the Worm is nothing new, it's just a bigger Shadowspawn to take down, it's still Shadowspawn though and still vulnerable to Fain the same as any other.)

 

Point being, Fain always exhibited a gradual "powering up" from day 1. It wasn't something new only BS introduced and it most definitely wasn't something that ever helped him succeed previously.

 

In fact, looking back, the more powerful Fain became the less effective he was. This was a recurring theme with Fain so in the end when Fain is supposedly at his most powerful, he is also the least effective and is killed easily and simply.

 

It all makes sense, it's all supported and well documented.

You are jumping on BS, accusing him of poor execution, for EXTENDING or doing EXACTLY what RJ had been doing with Fain for 11 books. The History is all there bud, you just choose to ignore it.

[Mr Ares]

 

 

RJ didn't do much with him either (he was vestigial by book 7 or 8--yes he should have still been able to be a threat, but meh). His PoVs sure were fun though, especially 4-6.

But in RJ's case you can at least claim he's being kept around for a reason, that he has a part to play - then he does nothing and dies in the last book.

 

And that claim is based on what exactly?

Must have been in all those PoV's and mentions of Fain in RJ's last 2 books...opps, there weren't any.

 

The only possible purpose for Fain remaining after Rand chased him away in WH was to serve in some way to be used by Rand to defeat the DO. Since RJ wrote the ending and quite obviously Fain had no part in it, his purpose (which IMO was to serve as an added protagonist that would push the 3 boys faster and prepare them further than the Shadow alone would have, Fain was instrumental in each of the boys quick advancement and played a direct role in the path each took) was outlived as he too would soon be.

If he had no purpose in the last book, he should not have been in the last book. RJ clearly understood the concept of Chekhov's Gun, as he demonstrated its use on a number of occasions (Brandon the same in his own work), and it is that which informs my claim. Now, Fain played no part in an ending that Brandon made a number of decisions for, but that says nothing about how RJ would have used him. Even if we accept that RJ wrote the scenes in the Pit and Fain wasn't there, that doesn't mean Fain would have no part to play in the defeat of Shai'tan. Or he might have had some other part to play that justifies his inclusion - fundamentally, what he's doing is less important than that he is doing something.

 

All you have to support your point is the ramblings of a lunatic proclaiming his own greatness.

What Fain has to say on the matter is irrelevant, and not even remotely a part of my argument. My argument is about story structure, and the inclusion of plot threads that have no purpose. Whether or not Fain ever achieves what he sets out to do doesn't matter in the slightest. What matters is a) that he act in a way consistent with his character, and b), that he serve a role in the narrative. A was achieved consistently - I don't object to Fain's characterisation in the last book. B was lacking - he had previously served a role, and had been absent from books where he had no part to play. His inclusion in ToM sets him up as having a role in the finale. That role does not materialise to any meaningful degree. Please, ditch the strawman and address my point.

[Suttree]

There is nothing to concede concerning Fain's transformation as the evidence is explicitly clear. We have covered that along with a number of other points concerning execution. You keep tyring to falsely box in the discussion to fit your argument and no one is biting.

 

But by all means prove me wrong, show me the error of my ways in what I said here...

 

The actual point is what does that have to do with him being more successful?

He had exhibited various degrees of power from day 1.

He started out just being able to follow the Boys.

Then he is "combined" with the Evil of SL. Now he has limited control over Mashadar and is able to corrupt Shadowspawn to his will.

Then he shows the ability to kill with a single touch of the Dagger.

Then he shows an ability to create deadly Illusions creating a trap that Rand almost gets stuck in.

Then he shows an ability to corrupt people to varying degrees.

Now he shows a greater control over Mashadar. (the killing of the Worm is nothing new, it's just a bigger Shadowspawn to take down, it's still Shadowspawn though and still vulnerable to Fain the same as any other.)

 

Part of the problem is you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding concerning Fain's powers. We are indeed covering the same ground as this has already been pointed out to you in thread. He did not "corrupt shadowspawn" to his will, per RJ he tortured info out of them and intimidated them into obeying. To act as if being able to create zombie trollocs and kill a worm of all things is "nothing new" is laughable to say the least. You claimed his transformation was based only on his "own words and thoughts"  which is a patently false statement.

 

So it wasn't poor execution at all, it was in fact perfect execution of the projection RJ had laid out for Fain since book 1.

 

You don't seem to be entirely clear on what poor execution means from a literary perspective.

[Finnssss22]

There is nothing to concede concerning Fain's transformation as the evidence is explicitly clear. We have covered that along with a number of other points concerning execution. You keep tyring to falsely box in the discussion to fit your argument and no one is biting.

 

But by all means prove me wrong, show me the error of my ways in what I said here...

 

The actual point is what does that have to do with him being more successful?

He had exhibited various degrees of power from day 1.

He started out just being able to follow the Boys.

Then he is "combined" with the Evil of SL. Now he has limited control over Mashadar and is able to corrupt Shadowspawn to his will.

Then he shows the ability to kill with a single touch of the Dagger.

Then he shows an ability to create deadly Illusions creating a trap that Rand almost gets stuck in.

Then he shows an ability to corrupt people to varying degrees.

Now he shows a greater control over Mashadar. (the killing of the Worm is nothing new, it's just a bigger Shadowspawn to take down, it's still Shadowspawn though and still vulnerable to Fain the same as any other.)

 

Part of the problem is you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding concerning Fain's powers. We are indeed covering the same ground as this has already been pointed out to you in thread. He did not "corrupt shadowspawn" to his will, per RJ he tortured info out of them and intimidated them into obeying. To act as if being able to create zombie trollocs and kill a worm of all things is "nothing new" is laughable to say the least. You claimed his transformation was based only on his "own words and thoughts"  which is a patently false statement.

 

So it wasn't poor execution at all, it was in fact perfect execution of the projection RJ had laid out for Fain since book 1.

 

You don't seem to be entirely clear on what poor execution means from a literary perspective.

 

 

Let me refresh the middle part of my post that you cut out, or I should say, are attempting to dodge for a third time now...

 

 

 

Point being, Fain always exhibited a gradual "powering up" from day 1. It wasn't something new only BS introduced and it most definitely wasn't something that ever helped him succeed previously.

 

In fact, looking back, the more powerful Fain became the less effective he was. This was a recurring theme with Fain so in the end when Fain is supposedly at his most powerful, he is also the least effective and is killed easily and simply.

 

It all makes sense, it's all supported and well documented.

You are jumping on BS, accusing him of poor execution, for EXTENDING or doing EXACTLY what RJ had been doing with Fain for 11 books. The History is all there bud, you just choose to ignore it.

 

Not a single thing you just said stands up after this and honestly, if all you have to go on now is nitpicking exactly what Fain's powers were at what time then we both know this is already over.

Whether his power was this or that or something else, the POINT is that his "powering up" began from day 1 and continued until just before his death and that the more powerful he became, the less effective he actually was.

That's the end point right there.

 

And furthermore, I never said his transformation was a product of his own mind, I said that his grand boasts and wild proclamations of what he was going to accomplish with that power that was.

[Finnssss22]

 

 

 

RJ didn't do much with him either (he was vestigial by book 7 or 8--yes he should have still been able to be a threat, but meh). His PoVs sure were fun though, especially 4-6.

But in RJ's case you can at least claim he's being kept around for a reason, that he has a part to play - then he does nothing and dies in the last book.

 

And that claim is based on what exactly?

Must have been in all those PoV's and mentions of Fain in RJ's last 2 books...opps, there weren't any.

 

The only possible purpose for Fain remaining after Rand chased him away in WH was to serve in some way to be used by Rand to defeat the DO. Since RJ wrote the ending and quite obviously Fain had no part in it, his purpose (which IMO was to serve as an added protagonist that would push the 3 boys faster and prepare them further than the Shadow alone would have, Fain was instrumental in each of the boys quick advancement and played a direct role in the path each took) was outlived as he too would soon be.

If he had no purpose in the last book, he should not have been in the last book. RJ clearly understood the concept of Chekhov's Gun, as he demonstrated its use on a number of occasions (Brandon the same in his own work), and it is that which informs my claim. Now, Fain played no part in an ending that Brandon made a number of decisions for, but that says nothing about how RJ would have used him. Even if we accept that RJ wrote the scenes in the Pit and Fain wasn't there, that doesn't mean Fain would have no part to play in the defeat of Shai'tan. Or he might have had some other part to play that justifies his inclusion - fundamentally, what he's doing is less important than that he is doing something.

 

All you have to support your point is the ramblings of a lunatic proclaiming his own greatness.

What Fain has to say on the matter is irrelevant, and not even remotely a part of my argument. My argument is about story structure, and the inclusion of plot threads that have no purpose. Whether or not Fain ever achieves what he sets out to do doesn't matter in the slightest. What matters is a) that he act in a way consistent with his character, and b), that he serve a role in the narrative. A was achieved consistently - I don't object to Fain's characterisation in the last book. B was lacking - he had previously served a role, and had been absent from books where he had no part to play. His inclusion in ToM sets him up as having a role in the finale. That role does not materialise to any meaningful degree. Please, ditch the strawman and address my point.

 

 

You're arguing facts not in evidence. If RJ had a place for Fain in the final showdown with the DO, BS would have included it.

 

Fain's inclusion in the final book was simple...he needed to die.

Based on Fain's progression from the very beginning, the more powerful he became, the less effective he was, Fain had to be at his most powerful when he was killed.

Everything that happened with Fain was true to Fain's character and to the projection RJ set for him through books 1-11.

 

And since when did Fain's inclusion need to fill a narrative?

Please explain to me what narrative Fain fulfilled in WH?

[Suttree]

And furthermore, I never said his transformation was a product of his own mind, I said that his grand boasts and wild proclamations of what he was going to accomplish with that power that was.

What you said was.

 

All you come back with is this perceived "power up" only based on Fain's own words and thoughts.

Perhaps that's not what you meant to say then?

 

As for the rest copy and pasting repeatedly doesn't change anything that has come before in this thread. I stand by my comments, you're not clear on the concept being discussed and that was glaringly obvious in the early pages of this thread and has become more so with yor last few posts.

 

Further your need to declare victory  when people won't allow you to artificially frame the discussion a certain way is beyond tiring. Again no one is biting and that's been repeated to you since the beginning. It's comical how much you've moved the goal posts if one has followed this thing from the start. You get all bent when you are corrected on various points but your multiple small inaccuracies add up to something large when taken as a whole. You've duck taped this latest shift together with incorrect facts and foundation based on a faulty premise. I'm out, carry on with Mr Ares if you like.

[Sabio]

Fain I don't feel was ever meant to be the main villain, instead he was a trouble maker.  Did all of his plots fail maybe, but his presence probably made sure Elaida and Pedron would never support or accept Rand.  He murdered the Asha'man trying to kill Rand and did try to kill Rand twice with the dagger.  I didn't mind his ending simply because I don't think RJ really meant for him to be a big player.  Had that of been the case he would of received a lot more book time.  Once Fain saw Rand wouldn't be drawn to defend the Two Rivers and his stirring up the rebellion was destroyed by the cloud, what was there really for him to do?  I think it would of harmed the books if it seemed like every book Fain had to have time to try another plot.  Fain wasn't as powerful as he thought, had Mat not of killed him a channeler easily could of blasted him from somewhere.  So for me it made sense that Fain would stop chasing Rand around everywhere and would simply wait for the last battle.  Once that was decided wasn't a hole lot you could write about him.  I thought it was fitting Mat would kill Fain.

[Finnssss22]

 

And furthermore, I never said his transformation was a product of his own mind, I said that his grand boasts and wild proclamations of what he was going to accomplish with that power that was.

What you said was.

 

All you come back with is this perceived "power up" only based on Fain's own words and thoughts.

Perhaps that's not what you meant to say then?

 

As for the rest copy and pasting repeatedly doesn't change anything that has come before in this thread. I stand by my comments, you're not clear on the concept being discussed and that was glaringly obvious in the early pages of this thread and has become more so with yor last few posts.

 

Further your need to declare victory  when people won't allow you to artificially frame the discussion a certain way is beyond tiring. Again no one is biting and that's been repeated to you since the beginning. It's comical how much you've moved the goal posts if one has followed this thing from the start. You get all bent when you are corrected on various points but your multiple small inaccuracies add up to something large when taking as a whole. You've duck taped this latest shift together with incorrect facts and foundation based on a faulty premise. I'm out, carry on with Mr Ares if you like.

 

 

The only reason I continue to copy and paste over and over is because you continue to avoid addressing it.

This now makes the 4th time you have cut it out of a response and failed to address it and the point it represents.

 

Baiting me is not going to work this time.

 

So for prosperity, this is the point, all you have to do is counter it...

 

Point being, Fain always exhibited a gradual "powering up" from day 1. It wasn't something new only BS introduced and it most definitely wasn't something that ever helped him succeed previously.

 

In fact, looking back, the more powerful Fain became the less effective he was. This was a recurring theme with Fain so in the end when Fain is supposedly at his most powerful, he is also the least effective and is killed easily and simply.

 

It all makes sense, it's all supported and well documented.

You are jumping on BS, accusing him of poor execution, for EXTENDING or doing EXACTLY what RJ had been doing with Fain for 11 books. The History is all there bud, you just choose to ignore it.

[ROB_88]

not sure if it has been mentioned, but i see Fain as a classic Red Herring thing

[damandred]

I think its fairly simple rj and maybe bs had more in mind for fain than got put into print in the final book but circumstance prevented that from happening. Its ovious that by the end of tToM that fain is going to play a major roll in the last battle, but maybe when it come to the writting of aMoL that wasnt possable and more important plot linws took presidence.