Lord of the Rings Mafia [Advanced Mafia] Town Wins!!!!

WolfbrotherKronos · May 30, 2013

Perhaps because his entire case is based on EP being mafia.

Talya · May 30, 2013

Kronos, anything I say in mafia games is never meant as a personal insult to anyone, I apologise if it came across that way. Mafia is Mafia...the rest of DM is RL :wink:

Hallia, if you are telling the truth and you had 1 shot cop, you have absolutely no reason to not tell us now. It basically gives us a Mason type relationship between you and your viewed. Not as simple as that, but I'm planning on lynching you right now anyway because it sounds like you are trying to cover your butt. Confirming who you viewed is the townie thing to do. Waiting until night means you are trying to save your skin from a lynch rather than help town.

I'm ion two minds about this.

1. I see why getting the info is out there can be useful.

2. But it then also give the Mafia confirmed Townie to kill off tonight. I honestly thought I would be gone last night, because I was just about confirmed. Hopefully they won't touch Turin and Panchi, because they would then confirm each other. Now we have given then AH as well, if Hally is telling the truth. If Hally is mafia, we still don't know if AH is town, because of the WIFOM situation she would have left us with.

So the good news is, if we lynch Hally and she turns up town, AH is most probably cop vetted at this point without actually offing a power role. If we lynch Hally and she turns up mafia, we killed a mafia. Win/win.

See comments above.

As for Kronos's comments, I do agree that Chuckles' vote on Tina was odd, especially when he said his reasoning for taking the vote off was to put it on someone he thought was mafia. He said to put it on Tina to get her to post and put pressure on, but he didn't say that at the time, he said she was pinging him...If I was going to vote someone to put pressure on, why not just say that.

Aiel Heart · May 30, 2013

Quickread catchup--will do an analytical one this evening.

That was an interesting slip by Hallia on the whole Dap and she seemed to slide around that and revealing what she found too much. I'm not sure what I think of her intentions behind it will have to look at it further.

I'm town but I don't know what that tells me about her either... And another issue here is that me dying and being town won't cement her as town either because she could just be mafia using a "townie view" to make herself look better

Will be back this evening with a clearer view of all of this and possibly change my vote.

WolfbrotherKronos · May 30, 2013

Kronos, anything I say in mafia games is never meant as a personal insult to anyone, I apologise if it came across that way. Mafia is Mafia...the rest of DM is RL

Hallia, if you are telling the truth and you had 1 shot cop, you have absolutely no reason to not tell us now. It basically gives us a Mason type relationship between you and your viewed. Not as simple as that, but I'm planning on lynching you right now anyway because it sounds like you are trying to cover your butt. Confirming who you viewed is the townie thing to do. Waiting until night means you are trying to save your skin from a lynch rather than help town.

I'm ion two minds about this.

1. I see why getting the info is out there can be useful.

2. But it then also give the Mafia confirmed Townie to kill off tonight. I honestly thought I would be gone last night, because I was just about confirmed. Hopefully they won't touch Turin and Panchi, because they would then confirm each other. Now we have given then AH as well, if Hally is telling the truth. If Hally is mafia, we still don't know if AH is town, because of the WIFOM situation she would have left us with.

So the good news is, if we lynch Hally and she turns up town, AH is most probably cop vetted at this point without actually offing a power role. If we lynch Hally and she turns up mafia, we killed a mafia. Win/win.

See comments above.

As for Kronos's comments, I do agree that Chuckles' vote on Tina was odd, especially when he said his reasoning for taking the vote off was to put it on someone he thought was mafia. He said to put it on Tina to get her to post and put pressure on, but he didn't say that at the time, he said she was pinging him...If I was going to vote someone to put pressure on, why not just say that.

Not ofdended at all...sorry if I came across that way. Been a crappy couple of weeks lol

bgrishinko · May 30, 2013

Yeah, I don't think voting AH would help the situation in anyway. Only the other way around.

Ya see, I'm all about diffusing Wifom as soon as it begins to prevent it from piling up. If Hally has another way of proving herself town by using some other action that can be verified, I'd rescind my vote.

Hally, you have a RB in that arsenal of yours?

Hallia · May 30, 2013

I do.

bgrishinko · May 30, 2013

I don't mind giving the mafia a town target to kill. All their targets aren't mafia anyway. What it does do is forces their hands. I know as mafia I hate it when I know I have to kill someone because they are basically or actually vetted. It means I have to abandon whatever plans I already have to kill people who I believe to be a threat and just deal with vetted town for numbers sake.

bgrishinko · May 30, 2013

Okay

Unvote

Hally, RB me tonight. I've got a fairly useless power (25% chance of success, investigative type, it only works once really) and I think it might be best used to vet you. I will target you, you RB me. I do ask for protection from whoever can. If I'm killed tonight nothing is learned. If I'm alive, I will know if Hally is telling the truth about JoaT (with a minor possibility of an extremely lucky mafia RBer). If Hally is telling the truth, 2 vetted town in my book (AH and Hally), if she is not, well....

Hallia · May 30, 2013

I am fine with that

ReleaseTheEvil · May 30, 2013

Thoughts post!

1. Turin: Making big claims and pointing a lot of fingers. A very smart and experienced player who is swaying everyone's opinion but also posting well. I think your strongest player should also be the one you are most suspicious of. I feel that his cases are forceful but are not grounded on very much at all. Also unverified Mason claim which could see him float by unchallenged if people by it for the rest of the game. Convenient.

~~2. Arez~~ Peace: Playing a rather typical game on his end. Town read. Curious about how he got his info as well but if staying quiet keeps him safe then so be it.

3. Nya: Kind of playing the catch up game like I am. Haven't played with her much but she's posting just enough to not draw too much attention to herself but remain active. Tricky one, I know she isn't new to mafia. Is she too quiet?

4. AH: Every lurker and slacker's best friend. "Contributes" to town by summarising the game as it happens. Because of VERY long summary and thought posts, it largely absolves her from having to make any firm or solid claims or thoughts. Would like to see more pointed and directed posting from her. I do very much appreciate the summaries but town storyteller will only get you so far. I don't trust Hallia's one shot so I don't think AH is vetted. Sorry. :3

5. Nolirion: Who?

6. RTE: Needs to post more. Playing a lazy game, not helping town but is around and staying current with the game. Not as active as usual, which is a shame because when active could help get more info and discussions going.

7. Hally: Has claimed JoaT after some suspicious play. Convenient. Not sure I buy it. At all. This works too well.

8. Tina: Disappeared when things heated up. Chuckles had the right idea in trying to stir something from her but totally mishandled it and made himself look very bad in the process. But Tina is another very good player who should be doing more right now. Why isn't she?

9. Dap: Dap scares me when he plays his game, and that is WOTing and scumhunting hard. That being said, because he isn't doing much of that at all it makes me think he isn't mafia. Why? Because if he was mafia he would be trying to look as town as possible and contribute as much as he could. Then again he's been working on different metas and may be going for the quiet pass through to the last nights. I don't trust Dap, because he's too good not to be suspicious of.

~~10. Basel~~ Boromir, Even night Vig, killed Day 1

11. Cloud: Cloud's posting has bothered me quite a bit this game. I don't know what it is, I'd say mostly gut, but something is very off. Again, active when it suits him and posting in the right times and places. But something isn't right and I can't put my finger on it. I haven't felt any better about him than earlier on in this game. I wasn't happy with him day 1 and nothing thus far has done much to change that.

12. BB: Just swapped in. To be continued...

13. ~~Darthe~~ King of the Dead, Miller lynched Day 1

~~14. Tiinker~~ Saruman, Mafia Sympathizer with 1-shot recruit and godfather potential, killed Day 1

15. BG: Another person who has been posting to maintain form but otherwise not much else. Town read but expecting more...

16. Chuckles: It's no secret I'm not a fan of Chuckles' play and so far it's the same here. Not much thought behind his posts, and it shows by the impulsivity of his posting and poking. Always kind of pings me and WBK brought up some interesting points. I'll be watching how he responds.

17. Tigraine: Here, another low poster.

18. Pank: Disappeared as soon as the Mason claim dropped. Free pass till the end? This isn't her first time around the block either. What gives?

19. Talya: After being everyone's best friend early on has dropped into the shadows. Where did you go?

20.WBK: The apple of Turin's eye. He caught some heat early on and Turin's casing of him is based off of EP, who died as scum. Not sure I get that then. Feel like we are missing it with this one.

21. Dice: A very smart and dangerous player. Who conveniently has not been around. Poof?

~~22. EP~~ Witch King of Angmar, Mafia Vote Controller lynched Day 2

23. Despo: The person making the strongest cases after Turin. Like Turin has cases against numerous people but the WOTs aren't quite doing it for me just yet. I feel like there is a lot of finger pointing and fear mongering going around and Despo and Turin have everyone's attention. Still, scum hunting and doing a lot of work for town. I'd say more of a town read so far.

24. Thorkin: Trying to catch up but has otherwise been quiet. Need to keep an eye on this one.

Scummy scum reads: Cloud, Hallia, Talya (suspicious early play followed by mostly nothing. Why?)

Influential players: Turin, Despo, AH (her summaries which are informing a lot of the players in this game)

(Relatively) Quiet, Dangerous Players: Tina, Dice, Dap, Panchi

Players I don't know what to think about: Nya, Tig, Noli, Thorkin, BB (new), Chuckles (I always am suspicious of him)

I think I'm going to go back and beat a not so dead horse and Vote Cloud. We didn't quite forget about day 1. At least I didn't. Insofar as still talking about the Miller stuff, I think that is long and done with. I honestly thing the scariest and worst thing about this game is just how many great, talented players are playing but how people are so very very quiet. It's scary. We should be very scared.

WolfbrotherKronos · May 30, 2013

Ley and lessa are now bb and chuckles

ReleaseTheEvil · May 30, 2013

I knew people were replaced and something wasn't adding up. Ok let me edit my post then...

ReleaseTheEvil · May 30, 2013

Ok, edited. Rand if you could fix the players list in the first post that'd be great. Thanks!

Talya · May 30, 2013

@ RTE - really, I have been around when I can and contributed, thanks. And you still think I'm scum, are you not even reading this game? Your post sounded 2 days too late.

I don't mind giving the mafia a town target to kill. All their targets aren't mafia anyway. What it does do is forces their hands. I know as mafia I hate it when I know I have to kill someone because they are basically or actually vetted. It means I have to abandon whatever plans I already have to kill people who I believe to be a threat and just deal with vetted town for numbers sake.

It says BG on the post above, but I thought it was Hally I was quoting, actually I see what you mean and I should have thought back to yesterday when I revealed, I was hoping tog et mafia to kill me last night to control their kill. The only difference is, you don't know if AH has a PR, so it could be dangerous, I know I'm now vanilla.

Okay

Unvote

Hally, RB me tonight. I've got a fairly useless power (25% chance of success, investigative type, it only works once really) and I think it might be best used to vet you. I will target you, you RB me. I do ask for protection from whoever can. If I'm killed tonight nothing is learned. If I'm alive, I will know if Hally is telling the truth about JoaT (with a minor possibility of an extremely lucky mafia RBer). If Hally is telling the truth, 2 vetted town in my book (AH and Hally), if she is not, well....

I don't get this at all. AS for the protecting you bit, I don't like the thought of the Mafia knowing exactly where the doc (or whatever protection role there is) is going to be protecting, very bad move. And I'm not sure it would actually vet you. You could both be on the same team, or you could be the mafia cop, so it would seem you are carrying on as normal if anyone could check. Not a good idea t all.

hazelkrs1 · May 30, 2013

Also @Peace how do you know there is a role cop in the game? Could you explain yourself better?

I don't think it is wise to give details at this point.

Desp...I was feeling your cases until your last big post. Chuckles was obviously questioning Hallia..not agreeing with her.

VOTE HALLY

He was def questioning her, but the way he did it was what jumped out at me, look:

Your case is pretty weak hal, you even say that despo cases another townie (dap) and when he made his list, he coudnt have known they were town, so I don't understand your case

Once again, he's acting like he knows that Dap is town. He doesn't say that I wouldn't know that Dap is town because no one knows yet, he acts like Dap had already been confirmed.

i agree it could have been a slip BG, but i dont think it confirms dap in anyway

why did you unvote?

i unvoted tina cuz as far as i can see, 1 vote can be ignored and id rather vote someone who i believe is scum

Ping. So when you were voting Tina you weren't voting for someone who you thought was scum?

i agree it could have been a slip BG, but i dont think it confirms dap in anyway

If it was a slip then Dap would by definition of a slip be town or third party, no?

or probably a way for mafia to keep on spreading wifom

No offense to Hallia, but I don't think she is experienced enough to fake a slip for the purposes of sacrificing herself to make a teammate look town

I can say who I viewed. So they'll probably kill me tonight, thus vindicating me, or they'll kill them.

Logic fail. If they kill you and you flip town, yeah you'd be "proven town", but you'd be dead. But if mafia killed AH and she was town, that wouldn't confirm you in the slightest.

i dont think i believe you Hally. Mafia know who the town are,more or less and a 1 shot cop claim is very easy for them to use as a fake claim. the odds of AH coming out and saying "im not town" are miniscule no matter if you are telling the truth or lying.

Vote Hally

Uhm, I don't really think there's any way that AH would ever come out and claim she wasn't town, even a third party claim would still get her in hot water (Gollum much?).

Yeah, I don't think voting AH would help the situation in anyway. Only the other way around.

Ya see, I'm all about diffusing Wifom as soon as it begins to prevent it from piling up. If Hally has another way of proving herself town by using some other action that can be verified, I'd rescind my vote.

Hally, you have a RB in that arsenal of yours?

Slight ping. Fishing for the other parts of her role, and the RB part especially, which is probably the most powerful action from a JOAT when used properly.

Okay

Unvote

Hally, RB me tonight. I've got a fairly useless power (25% chance of success, investigative type, it only works once really) and I think it might be best used to vet you. I will target you, you RB me. I do ask for protection from whoever can. If I'm killed tonight nothing is learned. If I'm alive, I will know if Hally is telling the truth about JoaT (with a minor possibility of an extremely lucky mafia RBer). If Hally is telling the truth, 2 vetted town in my book (AH and Hally), if she is not, well....

NOOOOOO Major ping. Directing the JOAT's RB power which is very useful when used correctly, and also directing the Doc to protect you? Pretty much just an extremely scummy idea.

Okay so on the Hallia subject, I could see the "slip" being innocuous if she was just mixing up games. Her JOAT claim, and especially the way she came out with it, was a little sketchy and very convenient, but I could see her being a somewhat blundering townie. Overall I'm more on the side of trusting her at this point, mostly because some of the few people who voted her after me I'm already suspicious of (Chuckles and Dice, Dice's vote coming after she claimed part of her role).

I will say this though: I won't direct how you use your role from here on out Hallia, if you're telling the truth, but it would help me, and perhaps others, trust you more if you can tell us if you've used your role already in some ways, as this info can help us clear you after more info eventually surfaces.

As for BG's idea: DON'T DO IT! First of all, I already mentioned that the RB function is a powerful part of the JOAT. BG trying to get it out of the way is ultra sketchy. Yes, it would be nice to vet you, and vetting you would also help us clear AH, so having two vetted townies would be nice... but it wouldn't really be that big a deal if those two townies were killed soon anyways.

Plus, his awful plan involves directing the Doc, which is why I'm pretty sure he's scum at this point. Thing is, I could be wrong about mafia targeting me last night, it's possible that they tried killing the Doc but he/she protected themselves, in which case they might already know who the Doc is. If you're scum BG, this would be an overt attempt at keeping the Doc from protecting themselves so that yall can take them out. Add to that that your 25% viewer role doesn't hold up in my book (I think you're trying to pass off a fake claim with stuff that other role info already revealed to make it seem more believable), AND that you'd get the JOAT's RB action out of the way, and I think you overplayed your hand, scum.

Unvote, Vote BG

My other reads right now are Chuckles, for both the way he acted like Dap was confirmed town, and his bizarre voting and unvoting on Tina and Hallia, and Dice, with Dap coming in at a distant 4th since Hallia's slip doesn't look like it was what I thought so my previous thoughts about him still stand.

As for Kronos, Talya I didn't think your case on him was that strong at all. You said he hadn't offered much this game, but he has way more posts than most of the players in this game, and I haven't seen him spam or fluff at all. The rest of your case had to do with him not giving full thoughts on a reread. Hardly much evidence to lynch him on imo. The only other thing I still see holding up is his connection to EP, but as I mentioned when he's scum EP is good at sowing wifom. Once again, I just don't think the case on him is nearly as strong as others out there.

hazelkrs1 · May 30, 2013

@RTE: Your reads kinda seem all over the place, and you make excuses for just about everyone that you seem slightly suspicious of. Plus you seem to be trying to sow suspicion on claimed masons, Talya who is still pretty much confirmed townie Treebeard after claiming the kill on Saruman, and Cloud, who I have a town read on after his hammer on Darthe (did you NOT ever see the point I made about that?!). Pretty anti-town post there bro.

@Talya: Glad you agree about BG's plan. You also covered something I forgot to mention, Peace said the mafia team has a role cop, and they could also have a watcher/tracker type role, so if they don't already know who the Doc is then BG trying to direct the Doc is even scummier.

BG, why you trying to do something so overtly scummy as directing the Doc?

nolirion · May 30, 2013

I am actually reading all the thing that I have missed , been quite busy those past few day , terrible I missed Ep lynching . For now back in page 33 I have a bad vibe coming from turin , and Hallia sure seems to tiptoed the last few pages .

Sorry I can't write more for the moment , I have to really appreciate the quality of your prose first before making any kind of statement .

ReleaseTheEvil · May 30, 2013

@RTE: Your reads kinda seem all over the place, and you make excuses for just about everyone that you seem slightly suspicious of. Plus you seem to be trying to sow suspicion on claimed masons, Talya who is still pretty much confirmed townie Treebeard after claiming the kill on Saruman, and Cloud, who I have a town read on after his hammer on Darthe (did you NOT ever see the point I made about that?!). Pretty anti-town post there bro.

To be completely and utterly honest despite being up to date on the game, I didn't completely understand the Talya Treebeard thing. If anyone can enlighten me I'd appreciate it.

In terms of your read on Cloud, that we don't agree doesn't make me anti-town. Cloud still is playing suspiciously IMO. Everyone got off scott free with the Darthe lynch, which was the issue with it. Lynching the miller didn't give us much. But that's old news like I said. I still don't like Cloud's play.

peacesells · May 30, 2013

Okay

Unvote

Hally, RB me tonight. I've got a fairly useless power (25% chance of success, investigative type, it only works once really) and I think it might be best used to vet you. I will target you, you RB me. I do ask for protection from whoever can. If I'm killed tonight nothing is learned. If I'm alive, I will know if Hally is telling the truth about JoaT (with a minor possibility of an extremely lucky mafia RBer). If Hally is telling the truth, 2 vetted town in my book (AH and Hally), if she is not, well....

Not a big fan of this BG. Although I am now leaning town on Hally. Partly due to her response to this plan.

Unvote

bgrishinko · May 30, 2013

Fair enough. I figured 1 RB to vet 2 town would be a good plan. I am worried that we don't have a Cop this game. Only roles like Talya and myself. After all, my role is pretty much identical to Talya's. I just went back and read Talya's claim. I'm not sure of a better use of a RB. Town RB tends to cause more problems than it solves anyway.

I still think its a good plan, but I can see what you are saying about directing the Doc.

Peace is right though, Hally looks pretty town based on the willingness to go along with it.

ReleaseTheEvil · May 30, 2013

Is no one considering this: based on bg's presumed PR, how would we or he even know if Hallia successfully RBed him? She's fine with it because it vets her and no one can prove she didn't use it...

bgrishinko · May 30, 2013

Is no one considering this: based on bg's presumed PR, how would we or he even know if Hallia successfully RBed him? She's fine with it because it vets her and no one can prove she didn't use it...

I'm searching for someone every night, if I find them I have 25% chance to kill them, else I simply know who they are. I'm told if I don't find them. That part is 100%. Same as Talya.

Turin Turambar · May 30, 2013

RTE is also definitely mafia after that last post. Can we please just lynch these two.

Kronos and RTE. If hallia is mafia she is taking one for Kronos. Don't let the mafia have what they want

RTE, my case I'd based on actions. EP viewed mafia and EP flat out refused to vote Kronos yesterday. Also the EST you three echoed each other in your posts and reads on each other was classic mafia. I am nearly ready to add BB to the list with her thoughts post.

The mafia playbook seems to be cast doubt on the masons(one who has already caught a mafia) and vote anyone but their team.

Just read the thought posts of all of them and concentrate on what they say about each other.

Also the votes placed by RTE and Kronos both smacked of mafia overjustifying even with a mafia view. Note BB didn't vote. I know she was still catching up so will cut slack there

dapianoplay3r · May 30, 2013

Fair enough. I figured 1 RB to vet 2 town would be a good plan. I am worried that we don't have a Cop this game. Only roles like Talya and myself. After all, my role is pretty much identical to Talya's. I just went back and read Talya's claim. I'm not sure of a better use of a RB. Town RB tends to cause more problems than it solves anyway.

I still think its a good plan, but I can see what you are saying about directing the Doc.

Peace is right though, Hally looks pretty town based on the willingness to go along with it.

I agree with the cop part. I don't think we have a full cop in this game. I haven't thought so since Talya claimed.

So?

We don't need a cop. We'll be more than fine IMO (be it guessing but thus far I feel the game is balanced)

unvote

Don't need that anymore

ReleaseTheEvil · May 30, 2013

RTE is also definitely mafia after that last post. Can we please just lynch these two.

Kronos and RTE. If hallia is mafia she is taking one for Kronos. Don't let the mafia have what they want

RTE, my case I'd based on actions. EP viewed mafia and EP flat out refused to vote Kronos yesterday. Also the EST you three echoed each other in your posts and reads on each other was classic mafia. I am nearly ready to add BB to the list with her thoughts post.

The mafia playbook seems to be cast doubt on the masons(one who has already caught a mafia) and vote anyone but their team.

Just read the thought posts of all of them and concentrate on what they say about each other.

Also the votes placed by RTE and Kronos both smacked of mafia overjustifying even with a mafia view. Note BB didn't vote. I know she was still catching up so will cut slack there

Wow. Anything else you'd like to add in there? Did I shoot the Sheriff and the Deputy? Do I eat babies?

BG's role, if RBed, would provide no evidence that Hallia is JoaT. Why? How do we have proof that his ability was RB'ed? Even he might not know depending what type of result he gets back.

If you don't see the logic in that, your head is stuck in the ground. And your head is obviously stuck somewhere Turin...

Lord of the Rings Mafia [Advanced Mafia] Town Wins!!!!

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