Ghost Mafia - 3 out of 33 survive - Town wins!

[csarmi]

Then what was it about "the town can lynch as often as they like"?

[Nolder]

Then what was it about "the town can lynch as often as they like"?

Well they didn't have to wait for a Night phase like most games.

[csarmi]

I don't understand how that helps or what that changes.

[berf]

There wasn't a break between lynchings. No night phase = every phase is day. As soon as consensus is reached, lynch, rinse, repeat.

 

Basically the town could have said x.y.z are ALL suspicious, we all agree, let's slam some through. But it never happened.

[Nolder]

I do wonder though how that would effect FLIR views, kills, and recruiting

[DPR]

I don't understand how that helps or what that changes.

 

 

I do wonder though how that would effect FLIR views, kills, and recruiting

 

If the Town had wanted to, they could have done exactly what Berf said and just stacked lynches. 

 

All FLIR views, Vig kills and mafia kills and recruits were limited to that "hour", and if they weren't turned in, they were lost. Thus, the town could have controlled the game if they were confident in who the mafia were.

[csarmi]

How could they have controlled the game? The maffia just stays active and sends in the kills/recruits after every lynch. Obviously that means the one sending it has to be hyperactive.

[michellem]

Nolder I've said it before; you're not the ultimate authority on mafia; you have your opinions and that's fine, but not everyone agrees with you. I've always thought Tress is a very good player; she's not one of those who spams most, but when she do posts I pay attention to it, because I know that then she really has something to say, and she doesn't post just to up her postcount. I'm not ususally amongst the top posters either; but it varies from game to game for me. But you're overly harsh and bordering on rude if you ask me, this is just a game, that's also done now. We all love mafia, and we all have our different views on how it should be played. Doesn't make one more right than the other. To say that Tress ruins games are way beyond what's acceptable in critzising others game, that's my personal opinion at least.

[Niniel]

Well said, Mish. I agree.

[DPR]

How could they have controlled the game? The maffia just stays active and sends in the kills/recruits after every lynch. Obviously that means the one sending it has to be hyperactive.

 

It's based on the mechanic of the first Fast-Mafia Vampire Hunter game. Were the town to get together and put a suspect list up while organizinf FLIR views and Vig kills, the mafia would have had to be very active and very clever to pull through.

 

In each PM I told the FLIR viewer and the Vig Killer that they could not discuss the options before they were used. But they were free to discuss them after, so the first viewer and killer could have copped to the action and suggested that the town plan who to view/kill each phase, even though they wouldn't know who did it. 

 

By controlling the timing and the view/kills, the town could have kept the mafia very busy and that would have led to mistakes made by the mafia, making them easily visible.

 

But, paranoia won out and despite several people asking if they could talk about the views/kills after they performed them, no one ever did.

 

It's fascinating to see how people handle things. 

[Nolder]

Nolder I've said it before; you're not the ultimate authority on mafia; you have your opinions and that's fine, but not everyone agrees with you. I've always thought Tress is a very good player; she's not one of those who spams most, but when she do posts I pay attention to it, because I know that then she really has something to say, and she doesn't post just to up her postcount. I'm not ususally amongst the top posters either; but it varies from game to game for me. But you're overly harsh and bordering on rude if you ask me, this is just a game, that's also done now. We all love mafia, and we all have our different views on how it should be played. Doesn't make one more right than the other. To say that Tress ruins games are way beyond what's acceptable in critzising others game, that's my personal opinion at least.

 

Well said, Mish. I agree.

Songstress comes in and makes a rude comment to me post game when I wasn't even talking to her and I'm the bad guy? You're joking right? If she wants to talk about it we can talk about it and if she wants to drop it that's fine by me too. 

 

And yes in fact there are right and wrong ways to play mafia. Take for example EP who practically gets policy lynched almost every game he's in for his play style. Of course that's kind of beside the point because in order to play the game wrong you have to actually be playing. I'm not sure what part of ~30 posts below a low average you guys didn't get but maybe it'd sink in if you did the math yourselves. If you want I'll quote every post of her's from this game and we can go over in detail how much she really participated.

 

I'm not normally a "harsh" guy, you both should know that, but I'm not going to mince words and pat people on the back when they consistently bring down games. I don't know why we can all seem to agree that DM mafia has an activity problem but we wont ever hold anyone accountable for it.

[csarmi]

Nolder, I think you should open a separate thread about dying games, especially as the behaviour you describe keeps plaguing most of them.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

It's not like it hasn't been discussed everywhere. Playstyle is one thing, activity is another. The problem is many aren't willing to enforce the rules and others are too scared to adopt stricter ones. But inactivity is a huge problem no matter what way you look at it. Creates a ton of imbalance in games as well.

[WWWwombat]

Songstress is active enough imo. Also, going by post count to judge activity is silly. Songstress died before plenty of other players, and also, her posts are usually more substantive than the average.

 

Furthermore, there were plenty of real inactives (Berf, Darthe, and NotBob among them), but you only want to hold Songstress accountable for low activity?

[Niniel]

Of course we want fun and active games. I found it strange that you would single out Tress out of a lot of players. I might not have played with her a lot recently but I think of her as a good player and it felt unfair.

 

It seems to be more and more usual that players have to comment on others play in a negative way after the games. Mafia is not personal, but it becomes personal if you tell people how much they suck after the game is over. 

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Also on a sidenote besides being a bad idea, inactivity is disrespectful of the other people in the game.

 

This game was rather unique and I got here really late to the show. My comments are in general and I myself am guilty of being inactive. I'm going to try committing to only one game at a time as I think that's the best approach for me. Whether a restriction on how many games someone can be in at once should be established is another question but one that seems as though it would not come from Verbal.

[DPR]

Here are a few thoughts regarding current discussions:

 

To me, lurking is a playstyle. Period. Doesn't mean it's good or bad, it just is. If you don't like people that do it, lynch them.

 

There are no right and wrong ways to play. The mod sets the guidelines. People will innovate. It's how the game evolves.

 

Inactivity is so often blamed on the players - blame it on the mods instead. If the game is interesting and it flows, people will play it. if it is encumbered by too many rules and is made too difficult to understand, they won't. If it is not handled well by the mod, they won't. If it degenerates into spats between players about play styles and how everyone should be doing things, people will leave. Mafia is like sex: keep it spontaneous and inventive, don't confuse the people you are playing with and it is usually best enjoyed after cocktails.

 

If you have a complaint about DM mafia, put the time in to create a great game. Problem solved.

 

I was very happy with the amount of activity in this game - I was also very happy with the number of people who really brought their A games. This was a blast to mod and I hope as much of a blast to play.

 

So cut each other some slack, dust yourselves off and get ready for the next game. That's why we're here. 

[ReleaseTheEvil]

I think that post impressed me as much as your game did.

[Tigraine]

Well said Wes.

 

I was very "inactive" in this game if we are looking at post counts but I read every post coming and going and you know what? I made it to end game so...

[Tiinker]

Mafia is like sex: keep it spontaneous and inventive, don't confuse the people you are playing with and it is usually best enjoyed after cocktails.

 

 

lol

[peacesells]

That's what I've been doing wrong.  I always confuse my sexual partner.

[Tiinker]

Same. I'm attempting try new and exciting things and then all of a sudden it's all police and restraining orders..

[Tyler Glembo]

. Mafia is like sex: keep it terrifying and disgusting, and you need to make it slightly moreso each time you do it in order to not lose interest.

 

[Nolder]

Nolder, I think you should open a separate thread about dying games, especially as the behaviour you describe keeps plaguing most of them.

I don't see what the point of that would be. Verbal is well aware the issue exists already and anything I say about the subject is viewed as bullying.

 

Also, going by post count to judge activity is silly.

How so?

 

Songstress died before plenty of other players, and also, her posts are usually more substantive than the average.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Most of the time I do not find her posts very substantial.

 

Furthermore, there were plenty of real inactives (Berf, Darthe, and NotBob among them), but you only want to hold Songstress accountable for low activity?

Except that I called each of them out and more in game?

I also try to avoid referring to people specifically EXCEPT when I'm casing them because people tend to get all bent out of shape.

 

 

Of course we want fun and active games. I found it strange that you would single out Tress out of a lot of players. I might not have played with her a lot recently but I think of her as a good player and it felt unfair.

I didn't single her out. And in fact the post she replied to that started this whole discussion wasn't even directed at her.

But I'm just being unfair and bullying right?

 

It seems to be more and more usual that players have to comment on others play in a negative way after the games. Mafia is not personal, but it becomes personal if you tell people how much they suck after the game is over.

What's said in a mafia game is not supposed to be taken personally but I'm often told off for calling out low activity while I'm playing.

I'm not telling Songstress or anyone else they suck. I'm simply saying there is (or should be) a reasonable standard of activity and a lot of people don't meet that.

They join games, fill space, get modkilled/replaced/consistently poked by the mod, and then wonder why someone like me gets annoyed with them when I'm trying to play a game for fun and half the people in the game are no where to be found. 

 

Also on a sidenote besides being a bad idea, inactivity is disrespectful of the other people in the game.

 I've said this many times before in many games and outside of them as well. Every time I've been told off for pointing this out because "I'm the only one upset". Maybe that's true but that doesn't make it any less rude to others. Then again I've said that before as well.

 

To me, lurking is a playstyle. Period. Doesn't mean it's good or bad, it just is. If you don't like people that do it, lynch them.

Here's the thing, I would agree with you but mods don't do their jobs here most of the time. Even you who specifically stated there would be no replacements ended up replacing someone. Mods here wont modkill for inactivity. People join and never post or only post once in a great while and they're either left for the players to deal with (note it's almost always 4+ people every game) or those people get replaced 2, 3, 4+ game days in and a lot of the time the replacements go MIA as well! It's near impossible to have a fair game this way because more often than not the town is at a huge disadvantage and what's worse is the community has a big problem with policy lynching inactives. I don't know why but the concept is anathema to them and so when someone who's been lurking for the whole game pops up in end game and town doesn't know what to make of them they get screwed over and never learn from it. It's an unending cycle for almost every single game.

 

There are no right and wrong ways to play. The mod sets the guidelines. People will innovate. It's how the game evolves.

That doesn't happen here.

 

Inactivity is so often blamed on the players - blame it on the mods instead.

I do. And then I get called a jerk.

[michellem]

 

 

I think players who don't post a lot are often underrated. People assume that because they don't post frequently that they're not putting in effort. Some of my favorite players have been low volume posters. I'd rather read one analytical or insightful post than a whole page of some of the facile crap most players post.[/size]

You would say that. Disgusting.

 

Joking aside though your most analytically post that is DEAD ON and names everyone's roles with 100% accuracy doesn't mean a damn thing when no one is willing to give you any credit because you have less than 50 posts in a 100+ page game. Go ahead and scale that for smaller games but you get my point. Activity isn't just about spewing crap, which can happen regardless, it's about trying to signal your alignment to your allies.

 

 

And once again, Nolder... Bite me.

 

 

You didn't single her out you say?