The Gaurdians Balance the Servants...

[Dagon Thyne]

Part of Nicola's foretelling about was about the Guardians "balancing" the servants.  This could mean a couple different things.  It could simply mean that the Black Tower, under Logain, becomes just as powerful as the White Tower and keeps their influence in check, but I believe it means that the Black and White Towers become one, and the Hall of Servants is reformed in the 4th Age.  The Aes Sedai have a lot of influence in the Westlands, and the Ashaman joining with them would balance out that influence. 

[Agitel]

If you've finished AMoL, you should bring this up there. Brandon's given us some answers about this in interviews.

[Dagon Thyne]

If you've finished AMoL, you should bring this up there. Brandon's given us some answers about this in interviews.

I haven't seen any interviews

[jedman67]

I have not read AMOL, but I find it unlikely that there will be a new Hall of Servants. The world has changed, fairly drastically. My personal guess is that when the Black Tower is cleansed, the Asha'man will partner up with the AS to help rebuild the world, (unless the source is tainted again on both ends). The BT will remain the BT, but hopefully the Ashaman will learn history and poetry as well as warcraft.

[Dagon Thyne]

I have not read AMOL, but I find it unlikely that there will be a new Hall of Servants. The world has changed, fairly drastically. My personal guess is that when the Black Tower is cleansed, the Asha'man will partner up with the AS to help rebuild the world, (unless the source is tainted again on both ends). The BT will remain the BT, but hopefully the Ashaman will learn history and poetry as well as warcraft.

Time repeats.  Eventually, the OP will be lost.  It will be rediscovered, and a new AOL will arise, and the Dark One will touch the world once more.  It has happened before and will happen again. 

[Sabio]

I don't see the BT ever joining the WT, I think they will remain separate but work together.

[Dagon Thyne]

I don't see the BT ever joining the WT, I think they will remain separate but work together.

They will eventually.  Time repeats itself in the WOT universe, remember?  So the two will eventually become one and a new AOL will arise.  and then they will break open the prison again.  It has happened before and will happen again. 

[Suttree]

I don't see the BT ever joining the WT, I think they will remain separate but work together.

 

Brandon

 

Kamarile Sedai

Did men start to use the Oath Rod too, or did it continue to be only women?

Brandon Sanderson

No men. Neither group would like that. The Asha'man are NOT male Aes Sedai. RJ was clear about this in the notes.

Keith Martin

Will the White and Black Towers reunite to form one Aes Sedai again?

Brandon Sanderson

RJ was clear to me that the Asha'man were not Aes Sedai, and were not going to become them.

Brandon Sanderson

That said, a united male/female Aes Sedai will come again someday.

 

[Sabio]

 

I don't see the BT ever joining the WT, I think they will remain separate but work together.

 

Brandon

 

Kamarile Sedai

Did men start to use the Oath Rod too, or did it continue to be only women?

Brandon Sanderson

No men. Neither group would like that. The Asha'man are NOT male Aes Sedai. RJ was clear about this in the notes.

Keith Martin

Will the White and Black Towers reunite to form one Aes Sedai again?

Brandon Sanderson

RJ was clear to me that the Asha'man were not Aes Sedai, and were not going to become them.

Brandon Sanderson

That said, a united male/female Aes Sedai will come again someday.

 

 

 

I assume this means that one day there will be no WT or Black tower.    My thought before reading what Sanderson said was that not every age was exactly the same.  Some things illhave to be the same each time like forgetting the DO exists, drilling a hole in the DO's prison, the 1st attempt to seal it etc....  But that all of that could happen without everything else always being the same such as last time  unified male/female Aes Sedai while this time it might be a BT and WT working together but separate.  Sort of like how the heroes of the horn don't live the same exact life each time.  But guess that is wrong.  I am guessing enough time will have to pass so the BT forgets its mistrust and dislike of the Aes Sedai.

[mb]

guardians are Ashamen, servants are Aes Sedia.

at least these possibilities for balancing::

-equal numbers of both

-their actions/reactions being copied (and/or perhaps countered) by the other

[Tud]

Regarding the idea that the BT and Wt will join together, I'm not sure how that jibes with these facts: there were no Ashaman in the AOl (hence nn BT), all channelers were known as Aes Sedai and the White Tower didn't exist until some 200 years after the breaking. The fact that Mr. Jordan said that the Ashaman will not take the oath rod and that they aren't male Aes Sedai seems to fly in the face of his assertion that each age repeats. I know that the explanation for the many changes is that the big picture repeats , but not the small details (which to me seems a mighty convienent dodge to get out of some rather obvious problems with the entire concept)., but I don't see the existance of the BT, the WT, Ashaman or Aes Sedai as small details.

 

    The only explanation that I can up with that meets the  cyclical nature of the WOT would be that the ability to channel dies out completely in one of the subsequent ages, the WT and BT fail and then later the ability  to channel reappears (which might actually make sense if the Earth of WOT is supposed to our Earth and in one age the US and the old soviet union did exist and in that age channeling itself died out) in such a way that you have male and female aes sedai without either a WT or a BT.

 

[Suttree]

    The only explanation that I can up with that meets the  cyclical nature of the WOT would be that the ability to channel dies out completely in one of the subsequent ages,

 

RJ has confirmed that is the case. There are ages in which channeling is forgotten.

[Dagon Thyne]

 

    The only explanation that I can up with that meets the  cyclical nature of the WOT would be that the ability to channel dies out completely in one of the subsequent ages,

 

RJ has confirmed that is the case. There are ages in which channeling is forgotten.

 

 

 

I bet it happens when technology arises.  Remember in Aviendha's vision, when railways and automobiles are being used.  I bet that the people begin to use technology more and the Aes Sedai lose the peoples' admiration and eventually the lack of need for the One Power causes the rate of channelors being born drops. 

[mb]

Both technology and channeling seemed to increase during the Age of Legends.

[The1stAge]

Both technology and channeling seemed to increase during the Age of Legends.

 

I'd surmise that much of the technology observed in the Age of Legends was due to spinoffs of the One Power (broadcast energy sources, standing flows, etc) rather than a technological society based on electricity.  Compare glowbulbs to battery powered flashlights, for instance.  

 

Which is why I hypothesized that channeling was lost prior to the age of technology (what I call the 7th age; which featured events such as the Industrial Revolution); and out of sheer necessity, it was the loss of channeling that catalyzed the rise in its place.  

[mb]

The guide seems to imply that non-channeling things were more than channeling things.

 

If the bits of information concerning daily life that have been preserved over the centuries can be believed, even ordinary people had access to a wide variety of technological wonders that seemed to rival the Power itself.

Chapter 3.

 

 

I would guess that something other than technology would decrease channelers.

Probably it starting with a worldwide catastrophe.

[Dagon Thyne]

Regarding the idea that the BT and Wt will join together, I'm not sure how that jibes with these facts: there were no Ashaman in the AOl (hence nn BT), all channelers were known as Aes Sedai and the White Tower didn't exist until some 200 years after the breaking. The fact that Mr. Jordan said that the Ashaman will not take the oath rod and that they aren't male Aes Sedai seems to fly in the face of his assertion that each age repeats. I know that the explanation for the many changes is that the big picture repeats , but not the small details (which to me seems a mighty convienent dodge to get out of some rather obvious problems with the entire concept)., but I don't see the existance of the BT, the WT, Ashaman or Aes Sedai as small details.

 

    The only explanation that I can up with that meets the  cyclical nature of the WOT would be that the ability to channel dies out completely in one of the subsequent ages, the WT and BT fail and then later the ability  to channel reappears (which might actually make sense if the Earth of WOT is supposed to our Earth and in one age the US and the old soviet union did exist and in that age channeling itself died out) in such a way that you have male and female aes sedai without either a WT or a BT.

The One Power will be lost long before the next AOL comes.  There won't be Aes Sedai or Ashaman then.  And the names will probably be different as well. 

[Dagon Thyne]

Both technology and channeling seemed to increase during the Age of Legends.

All tech in the AOL require the OP.  A train, ran by steam, does not.  Nor does medicine made from herbs.

[Dagon Thyne]

 

Both technology and channeling seemed to increase during the Age of Legends.

 

I'd surmise that much of the technology observed in the Age of Legends was due to spinoffs of the One Power (broadcast energy sources, standing flows, etc) rather than a technological society based on electricity.  Compare glowbulbs to battery powered flashlights, for instance.  

 

Which is why I hypothesized that channeling was lost prior to the age of technology (what I call the 7th age; which featured events such as the Industrial Revolution); and out of sheer necessity, it was the loss of channeling that catalyzed the rise in its place.  

 

The age of tech, which is based on our time, was the first age.  It's why all of the first age myths such as Lenn, Mosk and Merc, etc, are based on things that happen now, or in recent years. 

[Suttree]

The age of tech, which is based on our time, was the first age. It's why all of the first age myths such as Lenn, Mosk and Merc, etc, are based on things that happen now, or in recent years.

Curious as to why you think it's the first age specifically? Are there quotes along those lines that I'm forgetting?

[Cybertrolloc]

I think Thom says they're among the oldest tales he knows and that they predate the Age of Legends (fairly early in the series iirc). Depends on how big a reset the world gets going from age 7 to 1 and how accurate Thom and whover else's info is.

[Mr Ares]

 

The age of tech, which is based on our time, was the first age. It's why all of the first age myths such as Lenn, Mosk and Merc, etc, are based on things that happen now, or in recent years.

Curious as to why you think it's the first age specifically? Are there quotes along those lines that I'm forgetting?

They're described as stories from "the Age before the Age of Legends."

[mb]

 

Both technology and channeling seemed to increase during the Age of Legends.

All tech in the AOL require the OP.  A train, ran by steam, does not.  Nor does medicine made from herbs.

 

Actually, there were a number of things that non-channelers could use that were originally made during the Age of Legends.

some of them::

-the ring for Telaranrhiod

-the Aelfinn & Eelfinn doorways

-fancloth

[Dagon Thyne]

Regarding the idea that the BT and Wt will join together, I'm not sure how that jibes with these facts: there were no Ashaman in the AOl (hence nn BT), all channelers were known as Aes Sedai and the White Tower didn't exist until some 200 years after the breaking. The fact that Mr. Jordan said that the Ashaman will not take the oath rod and that they aren't male Aes Sedai seems to fly in the face of his assertion that each age repeats. I know that the explanation for the many changes is that the big picture repeats , but not the small details (which to me seems a mighty convienent dodge to get out of some rather obvious problems with the entire concept)., but I don't see the existance of the BT, the WT, Ashaman or Aes Sedai as small details.

 

    The only explanation that I can up with that meets the  cyclical nature of the WOT would be that the ability to channel dies out completely in one of the subsequent ages, the WT and BT fail and then later the ability  to channel reappears (which might actually make sense if the Earth of WOT is supposed to our Earth and in one age the US and the old soviet union did exist and in that age channeling itself died out) in such a way that you have male and female aes sedai without either a WT or a BT.

The fact that their called something different now does not change anything.  Even the Aes Sedai are nothing like their AOL counterparts.  In the AOL, the Hall of Servants acted more like a trade guild than the political force the White Tower has become.  They were to be civil servants, and were not expected to be treated like nobles. 

 

I am sure any joining of the two groups would come much later, maybe not even until the next turning of the wheel when the next AOL comes.  But it will happen eventually. 

[damandred]

Channeling will be lost altogether before the male and female are united again under the title of AS.

What will happen to the BT and WT before that happens is anybodies guess, they may work together but its unlikely that they will join.