The Butchers Bill (Full Spoilers)

[Barid Bel Medar]

Indeed, the compulsion was removed because the balefire burned back Aran'gar's thread so she died before she had woven the Compulsion. 

 

There is no indication that compulsion is removed after the Compeller's death. 

 

There is, however, Rhavin's Compulsion of Morgase and Lanfear's Compulsion of Perrin that proves otherwise. 

 

The effects of Rhavin's Compulsion on Moragse is still there after he is killed by Rand. (his thread was not burned back far enough to remove the Compulsion) Morgase overcame the Compulsion, however, it is still in her mind. 

 

Similarly, Perrin can't help but weep after killing Lanfear because of the Compulsion. Again, it is not prominent because he overcame it, but it is still there. 

 

In both cases, the Compulsion used was a) overcome and b) comparatively light. 

 

Graendal's Compulsion is very, very heavy, and Sarene could not overcome it. Indeed, Graendal herself was reduced to mindlessness - such was the power of the weave.

 

Also, the viewing that Min saw was likely already fulfilled as has been stated, it is implied she had a close relationship with her warder throughout the series, and given a bit of extra attention in aMoL. His death makes it even less likely that it has yet to be fulfilled.

 

Also, updating to add new deaths. 

[Jagen Sedai]

 

Why is it that as soon as BS took over, Sulin disappeared? Whatever happened to her? She was a fairly important secondary character for six or seven books, then never mentioned again. What gives? Did she get killed off and I just missed it?

I think he was embarrassed after the nandera mistake and didn't deal with her again because of it.

 

What happened with Nandera? What mistake? She was another Maiden, correct?

[Pinzarn]

Sharans dead toll, probably around 70% or so, almost none of their channelers escaped alive. Trollocs and Myddraal should all be dead...although it may be possible that a handful of Fades escaped, given their abilities.  Dark side channelers? 100% death toll beside the Sharans. Darkfriends? Should be easily 99+%, given it is the LB and Shai'tan would want all of them in the fight.

 

Sharans: 99%, only a handful left, whom Moghdiein tried to recruit before being captured by the Seanchan as a damane. 

 

Of the Sharans that followed Demandred.  I was not under the impression that Boa the Wyld had control of the entire Sharan population.

 

Just like the Aiel, we are never told that the Waste was emptied for the Last Battle.

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

Sharans dead toll, probably around 70% or so, almost none of their channelers escaped alive. Trollocs and Myddraal should all be dead...although it may be possible that a handful of Fades escaped, given their abilities.  Dark side channelers? 100% death toll beside the Sharans. Darkfriends? Should be easily 99+%, given it is the LB and Shai'tan would want all of them in the fight.

 

Sharans: 99%, only a handful left, whom Moghdiein tried to recruit before being captured by the Seanchan as a damane. 

 

Of the Sharans that followed Demandred.  I was not under the impression that Boa the Wyld had control of the entire Sharan population.

 

Just like the Aiel, we are never told that the Waste was emptied for the Last Battle.

 

 

You are correct. In Brandon's Tor Chat interview he said that Demandred hadn't taken control of all factions. The quote was "not by a long shot." So it seems that a large percentage of the population didn't follow him. 

 

It was a good haul - but comparatively, it was probably only a small fraction of the entire population.  

[Leflair]

 

Why is it that as soon as BS took over, Sulin disappeared? Whatever happened to her? She was a fairly important secondary character for six or seven books, then never mentioned again. What gives? Did she get killed off and I just missed it?

I think he was embarrassed after the nandera mistake and didn't deal with her again because of it.

Nerilea?

 

But yeah, Sulin dropping of the face of the Earth after her relatively (for a minor character) heavy development in LoC is one of those things that stick out like a sore thumb.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

 

 

 

Why is it that as soon as BS took over, Sulin disappeared? Whatever happened to her? She was a fairly important secondary character for six or seven books, then never mentioned again. What gives? Did she get killed off and I just missed it?

 

I think he was embarrassed after the nandera mistake and didn't deal with her again because of it.

Nerilea?

 

But yeah, Sulin dropping of the face of the Earth after her relatively (for a minor character) heavy development in LoC is one of those things that stick out like a sore thumb.

I get both on searches and no way I'm gonna get through TGS again... it is TGS? well, no way I read any of the last ones twice to figure it out, so I'll defer to anyone who has. all I know is he made a continuity error with her, the name is changed in later printings, and we never hear about her again.

 

pretty sure? kinda sure anyway.

 

but no way could there have been resolution on a fraction of the major minor characters without another dozen books, was there?

[Leflair]

10 full pages of nothing but names of the minor characters, preceded by "Demandred swept the ranks of the Light with balefire and...", followed by "all burned from the pattern. Rand had trouble recalling their names, he settled for summoning some tea with his mind and continuing his luxurious bath with the Dark One."

[Kil]

 

 

Why is it that as soon as BS took over, Sulin disappeared? Whatever happened to her? She was a fairly important secondary character for six or seven books, then never mentioned again. What gives? Did she get killed off and I just missed it?

I think he was embarrassed after the nandera mistake and didn't deal with her again because of it.

 

What happened with Nandera? What mistake? She was another Maiden, correct?

 

Sanderson mistakenly has Sulin with Rand in The Gathering Storm, when she should still have been with Perrin. He apparently tried to come up with some explanation for it, then gave in it was changed in later printings (I think) to be Nandera who was with Rand and not Sulin, which is correct.

 

Sulin's absence from AMOL bugged me too. I wanted to see her reunion with post-epiphany Rand. She considered him as brother, and her being sent off with Perrin's crew was part of Rand sending away people he cared about.    

 

Edit: I would add that there's no reason to think Sanderson was "embarrassed" and "didn't want to deal with her again," because he wrote her in Towers of Midnight. Her absence in AMOL is just one example of many minor characters who seemed to get lost in shuffle.

[Ataxia]

My hope is the encyclopedia will reveal the fates of characters. It kind of bothers me not knowing the fates of guys like Harnan, Vanin, Amys, other clan leaders, Uno, etc.

[tokkk]

The encyclopedia is the perfect place to contain EVERY SINGLE named character and their fate.  I dont know what kind of database Tor or team Jordan keeps with respect to characters but I am sure such information would be highly valued by fans - they can ask fans to submit the names of characters if they need too.

 

I have no doubt such a compilation will sell well.

[Suttree]

The encyclopedia is the perfect place to contain EVERY SINGLE named character and their fate.  I dont know what kind of database Tor or team Jordan keeps with respect to characters but I am sure such information would be highly valued by fans - they can ask fans to submit the names of characters if they need too.

I have no doubt such a compilation will sell well.

Nothing like that will be included in the Encyclopedia. We know RJ wanted to leave things open ended.

[SueDeNym]

 

The encyclopedia is the perfect place to contain EVERY SINGLE named character and their fate.  I dont know what kind of database Tor or team Jordan keeps with respect to characters but I am sure such information would be highly valued by fans - they can ask fans to submit the names of characters if they need too.

I have no doubt such a compilation will sell well.

Nothing like that will be included in the Encyclopedia. We know RJ wanted to leave things open ended.

For the most part, I agree with this.  I mean, I don't need to know the fate of every single Aiel, AS, Ashaman, or Emond's Fielder.  However it truly would be nice to know about at the very least some secondary and tertiary characters. 

 

Here is a partial list of characters I would love to know either lived or died:

Aiel-- All the clan chiefs, prominent maidens (Sulin, etc...) and Wise Ones.  For that matter, I wonder did any of the captured Shaido WO were forced into the LB by the Seanchan.  It doesn't seem right if Amys dies, yet Therava lives on.

AS-- Silviana, Theodrin, Faolin, Saerin, any of the sitters (from either faction) that we didn't see die on or off screen. 

Emond's Fielders--  Umm, the Al'Veres?  What about characters  like Wil A;'Seen and some of the other boys/men who followed Perrin?  All we know for sure is that Jori Congar died smothered to death by a dead trolloc (ewwwwww, what a way to go)

Ashaman-- What about Flinn and Narishma?  I'm pretty sure Neald and Grady are mentioned right at the end so they're probably safe. 

 

Oh, and for the love of the light, can somebody please tell me if Morgase, Tallanvor, Lini, and Basil Gill lived or not?

 

I could care less about any of the Sea Folk.  That lot annoyed the heck out of me and I'm glad that a lot of them were up in SG were the casualties were highest. 

[Jagen Sedai]

I'm pretty confident none of the Sea Folk at SG died, considering they were away from the fighting to deal with the tempest. I too hope to know the fate of those listed above. I wonder if Sanderson and them could have kept the book another month just to throw in some more names...

[Spainard]

Maybe the wrong topic to post in but what happen Valen Luca's never ending circus arc. In AMOL we read that Mat sees Petra entering Ebou Dar and thankfully we were relieve of any chapters concerning Luca well turned leg and cloak. But after spending some many hours reading about him kind would like to know if he died

[SueDeNym]

Maybe the wrong topic to post in but what happen Valen Luca's never ending circus arc. In AMOL we read that Mat sees Petra entering Ebou Dar and thankfully we were relieve of any chapters concerning Luca well turned leg and cloak. But after spending some many hours reading about him kind would like to know if he died

LOL, with any luck he was eaten by one of the lions who managed to escape from their cages during a random bubble of evil.    Seriously, that whole arc annoyed the heck out of me although it would have been hilarious to see a scene between Valan and Lan. 

[Tud]

Okay, regarding some of the questios, we know that both flinn and Narihma survived because they are mentioned subsequent to the defeat of the Shadow's forces. Jori Conger bled to death, rather than being smothered.

 

As for the various percentages stated, I don't see anything that supports more than a few of thos conclusions. Here's what we do know:

 

1. Three of the Foresaken were killed (Taim, Demanadred and Moridin), one was collared and one was compelled.

 

2. The shadow forces suffered almost complete annilhiation.

 

3. The Aes Sedai lost somewhere above 127 killed (we only know for sure that number based off what was presented in the story ..120 killed in the first Sharan attack, including Romanda; Doseine killed a Mellor, , Kurin and the other linked AS killed by Greandal;Egwene died, Siuan died and Annoura was burned out. We know that numerous others were also killed during the final battle, but no exact number was given.

 

4. At least 50% of the "Great Captians" fell..We don't know about Lord Aglemar and Rodel survived.

 

5. Rand was killed...Well, sorta.*G*

 

6 Nearly all of the Sharan channelers were killed.

 

 

And that's about it..Everything else is pure speculation.

 

Now, regarding the issue of Balefire releasing someone from compulsion, I'll conced the p[oint, but have to ask why that didn't happend to Morgase. She was able to overcome its affect on her own indicating that the level of compulsion wasn't that great, yet even though Rahvin was balefired, her compulsion remained. Why was that? Could it have something to do with the length of time between her compulsion and his death or was it just a mistake in continuity by BS?

 

As for Sarene recovering, I'm pretty certain she has to since Min has a viewing of her founding a great School as well as having a tempestuous love affair. Considering what had been going on between the time of Min's viewing and Greandal's attack, I don't think there was time to either have the affair or found the school.. I think both events happen subsequent to TG..

 

At least that's what I think..

 

tud

[Suttree]

 

Now, regarding the issue of Balefire releasing someone from compulsion, I'll conced the p[oint, but have to ask why that didn't happend to Morgase. She was able to overcome its affect on her own indicating that the level of compulsion wasn't that great, yet even though Rahvin was balefired, her compulsion remained.

Rahvin had been using compulsion on Morgase for a long time. The amount of balefire used to kill him would only erase his actions for the last few hours at best.

 

Also you are confusing Min's viewings. It was Nesune that was supposed to found a library.

[wRAR]

4. At least 50% of the "Great Captians" fell..We don't know about Lord Aglemar and Rodel survived.

We know about Ituralde :)

[esvath]

1. Three of the Foresaken were killed (Taim, Demanadred and Moridin), one was collared and one was compelled.

 

Four Forsaken were killed. Lanfear also died, was killed by Perrin.

[Tud]

Esvath, you're correct in that Lanfear was killed, but hadn't she been demoted or was that just Greandal? Either way, she got killed. As for the Sarene/Nesune mixup, okay, my bad. However, it still doesn't change the central point of my post, to wit: with only limited exceptions, we simply do not have enough information to make anything more than guesses regardig claims survival rates.

 

On the subject of balefire, go back and re-read my post on the subject, that was one of the alternatives I had for getting around the discrepancy. Has that ever been confirmed by Mr. Jordan and/or Mr. Sanderson?

 

Thanks..

 

tud

[Entreri]

Shadows forces, I would say around 95% destruction, given that some Sharans escaped (20%-30%, although 99.9% of their channelers died).

 

I peg the Light casualities at around 70%.

 

Yes it was a AN EPIC bloodbath.  Even the writers of Spartacus would be proud. 

[Suttree]

 

On the subject of balefire, go back and re-read my post on the subject, that was one of the alternatives I had for getting around the discrepancy. Has that ever been confirmed by Mr. Jordan and/or Mr. Sanderson?

 

Thanks..

 

tud

What discrepancy?

[Mystraka]

Esvath, you're correct in that Lanfear was killed, but hadn't she been demoted or was that just Greandal? Either way, she got killed. As for the Sarene/Nesune mixup, okay, my bad. However, it still doesn't change the central point of my post, to wit: with only limited exceptions, we simply do not have enough information to make anything more than guesses regardig claims survival rates.

 

On the subject of balefire, go back and re-read my post on the subject, that was one of the alternatives I had for getting around the discrepancy. Has that ever been confirmed by Mr. Jordan and/or Mr. Sanderson?

 

Thanks..

 

tud

Tud,

 

The mechanics of Balefire had been WELL established by RJ around the time Rand saves Mat from the darkhound (book 4 I want to say, don't have my books handy) wound using Balefire.  Also none of the forsaken were "demoted" I'm not sure where the hell you got that.  Some had fallen out of favor, but a demotion???  

[Swigaro]

Actually, in one of her conversations with Perrin, Lanfear tells him she is no longer one of the forsaken. 

 

Hardcover page 259

 

"You're one of the Forsaken!"
"I was," Lanfear said.  " That... privilege has been removed from me.  The Dark One discovered I was planning to help Lews Therin win.  Now I--"  She froze,looking toward the sky again.

 

[Mystraka]

Actually, in one of her conversations with Perrin, Lanfear says, "I am no longer one of the chosen."

Lanfear is a great resource for truth in the series isn't she......

 

If the Dark One had removed her station, he would have removed her entirely by breaking her mind trap