Elayne's Arc (Full Spoilers)

[Morsker]

 

Did anyone else get the sense that Birgitte is actually being reborn as one of Elaine's twins, or was that just me?

The timing doesn't work based on comments in the book. The general consensus is that Elayne's kids will be Calian and Shiva who are the hearalds of a new age.

 

Which comments? Birgitte said a woman was "preparing to give birth" but that's awfully vague, since all of pregnancy is preparing to give birth. RJ supposedly said that the soul enters the body when a fetus is capable of sustaining life, but I have no idea when that is.

 

I like the idea that Elayne's children will be Calian and Shiva. It just sounds like you have evidence against one being Birgitte, and I don't know what the evidence is.

[hjustinpace]

When they picked Elayne to be the leader, they hadn't split up the 4 great generals yet.  Bryne could have just as easily went with Elayne.  The White Tower has never been politically neutral.  The rest of the world recognized them as being manipulative for their own gains.  Rand certainly didn't trust them.  The White Tower breaking and the attack from the Seanchan did serve to humanize them a little bit though.

The White Tower would have made sense in a pre-Dragon Reborn world. But we just saw a big confrontation with the White Tower on one side and the Dragon Reborn on the other. The selection of Elayne may not have made sense based on her abilities, but it probably did from a political standpoint because she was closely linked with both Egwene and Rand, and powerful in her own right.

[MountaineerWV]

I liked Elayne's character just fine. I don't think she is especially memorable as a character. I do not like that she was made the overall commander of the forces of Light. A 18/19 year old pregnant girl making strategic war decisions just doesn't sit well with me. Not that she's a female, but that she's a young person that has no legit experience to be put in that position.

[Kudlak]

 

 

Did anyone else get the sense that Birgitte is actually being reborn as one of Elaine's twins, or was that just me?

The timing doesn't work based on comments in the book. The general consensus is that Elayne's kids will be Calian and Shiva who are the hearalds of a new age.

 

Which comments? Birgitte said a woman was "preparing to give birth" but that's awfully vague, since all of pregnancy is preparing to give birth. RJ supposedly said that the soul enters the body when a fetus is capable of sustaining life, but I have no idea when that is.

 

I like the idea that Elayne's children will be Calian and Shiva. It just sounds like you have evidence against one being Birgitte, and I don't know what the evidence is.

cuz in book Birgitte say that she must go now because she is reborn now and Elayne wasn't in term ?? And nobody say that Birgitte cant be Elayne warden againts in future hmm ?? After all Elayne is Aes Sedai she will live long life ....

 

[Trevor Wilson]

I am afraid i groaned inside when it was announced she would take the lead

 

Ive struggled with female characters throughout the whole series to be honest (some i liked, such as min but generally i didnt like the portrayal of them). Elayne has always been my least favourite.

 

When i read the scene where they debate who should lead the armies i was thinking 'errm HELLO call for MAT as you can locate him' and i was worried that elayne would get too much screen time as a result

[Kudlak]

I am afraid i groaned inside when it was announced she would take the lead Ive struggled with female characters throughout the whole series to be honest (some i liked, such as min but generally i didnt like the portrayal of them). Elayne has always been my least favourite. When i read the scene where they debate who should lead the armies i was thinking 'errm HELLO call for MAT as you can locate him' and i was worried that elayne would get too much screen time as a result

 

Hi sorry to bother but I really dont get why people hate female characters to much ??:-( For me they was pretty good in most of books

[Trevor Wilson]

Hey kudlak.

Its actually hard to explain, i guess many of them were portrayed (in my mind) as petty, annoying and obsessed with how 'wool headed men are' etc. An example would be the scenes where juilin and thom accompany the girls and the attitudes depicted there. Like i said i did like some female characters (siuan, moirainne, min, most the aiel wise ones).

 

 

[flinn]

I liked Elayne's character just fine. I don't think she is especially memorable as a character. I do not like that she was made the overall commander of the forces of Light. A 18/19 year old pregnant girl making strategic war decisions just doesn't sit well with me. Not that she's a female, but that she's a young person that has no legit experience to be put in that position.

 Yep. That was very, very unbelievable. From the potrayal of the monarchs of Rand Land for the past 12 books, very few of them would have been willing to accept Elayne as their supreme commander. Not a chance in Rand Land.

[flinn]

Hey kudlak. Its actually hard to explain, i guess many of them were portrayed (in my mind) as petty, annoying and obsessed with how 'wool headed men are' etc. An example would be the scenes where juilin and thom accompany the girls and the attitudes depicted there. Like i said i did like some female characters (siuan, moirainne, min, most the aiel wise ones).

The main female characters were annoying most of the time. Aviendha and Min were both easy to read, the others were hard.

[Kudlak]

Hey kudlak. Its actually hard to explain, i guess many of them were portrayed (in my mind) as petty, annoying and obsessed with how 'wool headed men are' etc. An example would be the scenes where juilin and thom accompany the girls and the attitudes depicted there. Like i said i did like some female characters (siuan, moirainne, min, most the aiel wise ones).

Ok but seriously in all 14 books ?? :-) Elayne was  best of all at that given moment for this position. After all WT cant be leader because of Seanchan, others kings were to afraid of Rand + you cant say if they wasnt DF and MAt was busy with Tuon in this moment 

[David Selig]

 

 

I liked Elayne's character just fine. I don't think she is especially memorable as a character. I do not like that she was made the overall commander of the forces of Light. A 18/19 year old pregnant girl making strategic war decisions just doesn't sit well with me. Not that she's a female, but that she's a young person that has no legit experience to be put in that position.

 Yep. That was very, very unbelievable. From the potrayal of the monarchs of Rand Land for the past 12 books, very few of them would have been willing to accept Elayne as their supreme commander. Not a chance in Rand Land.

Given that the Dragon Reborn is 20 (and most of those monarchs already swore fealty to him), the Amyrlin the same age as Elayne, and they were the main power players at the meeting besides Elayne herself, it's really not that strange. She didn't need to be a military genius, she was supposed to coordinate the efforts and let strategy to the great Captains.

[Kudlak]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I liked Elayne's character just fine. I don't think she is especially memorable as a character. I do not like that she was made the overall commander of the forces of Light. A 18/19 year old pregnant girl making strategic war decisions just doesn't sit well with me. Not that she's a female, but that she's a young person that has no legit experience to be put in that position.

 Yep. That was very, very unbelievable. From the potrayal of the monarchs of Rand Land for the past 12 books, very few of them would have been willing to accept Elayne as their supreme commander. Not a chance in Rand Land.

Given that the Dragon Reborn is 20 (and most of those monarchs already swore fealty to him), the Amyrlin the same age as Elayne, and they were the main power players at the meeting besides Elayne herself, it's really not that strange. She didn't need to be a military genius, she was supposed to coordinate the efforts and let strategy to the great Captains.

 

I try say same :-) 

[Selene's Shadow]

I was disappointed with Elayne. The only time I have ever been impressed with her is controlling the palace in Caemlyn. That is where she excels and she certainly doesn't/shouldn't excel when it comes to battles and marshalling armies. 

[Jak o' the Shadows]

very much not a fan of Elayne...and I was TRULY pissed off when Rand put's her in charge of the Armies of the Light and not Mat (I wanted a Mat vs. Demandred showdown).

 

So I was very resistant to all her command decisions at the beginning of the book.  Looking for more ways to hate her.

 

 

But honestly, Elayne was pretty good in this book.  She lead, but was listening to her generals.  She fought even though she was pregnant    She had the most disturbing scene in the book with Mellar...I actually wanted her to kill that man...and from me who can't stand her...that is pretty big conversion.

 

She also went way up in stock when Mat did get put in charge, so I could stop hating her for that.   Her horror at Birgette losing her memories and not snapping at her...well she went up in stock for that as well.

 

 

Overall, I felt we got more of the 'early book Elayne' where she was being selfless and heroic, rather than pompous and self-centered.   Good arc for her.

 

Birgette -  one of my favorite characters.  Her death.  Man...it happened so suddenly I didn't really have time to 'feel it'.  Just whoosh, off with your head.   My only gripe is that it did feel a bit hollow.  We all figured and knew she'd come back as a hero of the horn...so it was a 'well I guess that's fine' feeling.  Took away from the loss of her defending her AS.  And given the 'loss of her memories' and then 'getting them back'...you were almost glad she did die.   That felt wrong to me.  I wanted more grieving for a hell of a warrior and a great character.

[Morsker]

 

I am afraid i groaned inside when it was announced she would take the lead Ive struggled with female characters throughout the whole series to be honest (some i liked, such as min but generally i didnt like the portrayal of them). Elayne has always been my least favourite. When i read the scene where they debate who should lead the armies i was thinking 'errm HELLO call for MAT as you can locate him' and i was worried that elayne would get too much screen time as a result

 

Hi sorry to bother but I really dont get why people hate female characters to much ??:-( For me they was pretty good in most of books

 

A lot of people don't like Elayne's plotline in the middle books, taking over Andor. They think it was boring and took too long. It's not a "female character" thing. Perrin's plotline is even more hated than Elayne's.

 

Some people do hate the female characters, but that's not the same as not wanting Elayne to get screen time.

[driedraspberry]

 

 

 

 

I liked Elayne's character just fine. I don't think she is especially memorable as a character. I do not like that she was made the overall commander of the forces of Light. A 18/19 year old pregnant girl making strategic war decisions just doesn't sit well with me. Not that she's a female, but that she's a young person that has no legit experience to be put in that position.

Yep. That was very, very unbelievable. From the potrayal of the monarchs of Rand Land for the past 12 books, very few of them would have been willing to accept Elayne as their supreme commander. Not a chance in Rand Land.

Given that the Dragon Reborn is 20 (and most of those monarchs already swore fealty to him), the Amyrlin the same age as Elayne, and they were the main power players at the meeting besides Elayne herself, it's really not that strange. She didn't need to be a military genius, she was supposed to coordinate the efforts and let strategy to the great Captains.

This.

 

And I don't see how Elayne being pregnant has to do with anything. She's six months along and probably more physically fit than some of the older monarchs, never mind that she's a powerful channeler.

[Kudlak]

 

 

I am afraid i groaned inside when it was announced she would take the lead Ive struggled with female characters throughout the whole series to be honest (some i liked, such as min but generally i didnt like the portrayal of them). Elayne has always been my least favourite. When i read the scene where they debate who should lead the armies i was thinking 'errm HELLO call for MAT as you can locate him' and i was worried that elayne would get too much screen time as a result

 

Hi sorry to bother but I really dont get why people hate female characters to much ??:-( For me they was pretty good in most of books

 

A lot of people don't like Elayne's plotline in the middle books, taking over Andor. They think it was boring and took too long. It's not a "female character" thing. Perrin's plotline is even more hated than Elayne's.

 

Some people do hate the female characters, but that's not the same as not wanting Elayne to get screen time.

Ok I ask because there on forum i read lot of coment like damn, Egwen is after death bad thing  Elean isn't too ... hate Tuon, she was to boring etc

[flinn]

 For me it was the annoying characteristics. All the sniffing and braid tugging and baths wore on my nerves.

[Kudlak]

 For me it was the annoying characteristics. All the sniffing and braid tugging and baths wore on my nerves.

 

You know something similar is in every high fantasy series ??

[Sabio]

Elayne annoyed me so bad simply because she never seemed to learn.  I mean how many times did she need to be saved, seemed almost every book she had to be rescued.  She was selfish and self absorbed.  All her doing dumb stuff she never once considered brigette or that brigette might die trying to save her or that her death might have on brigette  She is pregnant yet just does dumb stuff becuase "Min said my babies would be born healthy".  Ny use to annoy me but as the series went on she actually changed and developed, Elayne IMO stayed the same throughout the series.

[balefireruinssteaks]

I did like it when she realized that they were going to gut her and take her babies out, and the babies would survive (for a time) outside her womb.  It seemed to really hit her that she was not immortal just because of Min's viewing.  But I thought she would have learned that when she went after the Black Ajah Sisters in the dungeon, trying to pass herself off as a Forsaken.

 

Elayne never really learned.  That was disappointing.

[Trevor Wilson]

Kudlak

 

For me hate is too strong a word, i found elayne annoying, plus associate her with the most boring parts of the books generally. Hence whenever i saw her name as the start of a chapter i tended to lower my expectations for that chaper.

[Kudlak]

Kudlak For me hate is too strong a word, i found elayne annoying, plus associate her with the most boring parts of the books generally. Hence whenever i saw her name as the start of a chapter i tended to lower my expectations for that chaper.

Ahh ok :-) but you must admint that she got some got chapters in books ?,:-)

[fertileground]

What? All Elayne does is for the greater good of her country, we see this time and again. Dyelin did not want the throne and thought it should be Elayne's. The only way she would have gone against that would have been if Elayne had said she was going to "accept" the throne from Rand. In that case Dyelin would never have supported her and the succession would have been far longer and more bloody with all the different groups vying for it.

 

I agree, I thought her character was well developed, and she suffers the same character flaw as her brother in being brave to the point of reckless. The only time I was really annoyed was the way she treated Mat and the band who accompanied her and Nyn to Ebou Dar, but it still fit her character at the time.

[Sabio]

But thats the problem with her and her brother, they don't learn.  Again and again they have the "I want to be a hero'" syndrom.  I mean seriously how many times did Elayne need to be rescued?  Her character to me never really evolved past the I need no help I can do anything.  She never once conidered what costs her actions might have on Rand or Brigette.  It was well my babies will be born healthy so everything will be all rigth time and again.  I just felt as the other characters grew and matured throughout the book hers never did.