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Discuss Verin (Full Spoilers)


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Re Rand's letter and that DF Tear lords (Weiramon and Anaiyella). I'm sure I remember there was a line in AMOl where it says that Rand used Saidin to listen to their heart beats which is how he discovered them. As for Alanna, maybe Verin's letter were instructions on how to release the bond? It doesn't seem like this is known at all amoung Aes Sedais? On of the Ashaman does it and it surprises Pevara?

Rand some how learned the ability to out DF's. remember neither of them could look Rand and in maradon he caused them to kill themselves.  So I am guessing it was more then just listening to their heart beats.

I agree that it was more than just listening to heartbeats, but I'm not convinced he can sense darkfriends or some such. Otherwise he would have noticed Fera Harkin (or whatever her last name was) in Shayol Ghul. I was surprised she never came up as important, though I guess Verin Compelled her to not be a nuisance to the Light side. I remember noting her when she was first outed by Elza Penfell and wondering what she would end up doing. Then at one point all the channelers in Aviendha's group in Shayol Ghul split into 3 linked circles, and one was led by Fera, so I was like "OH SH*T, BLACK AJAH SABOTAGE!" but nothing ever came of it...that was kind of disappointing as well. I digress...

 

While I can't really explain the Maradon suicides (Rand obviously caused some sort of pain to the Darkfriends watching him channel, but I don't know how), and Weiramon definitely had physical dificulty looknig at Rand, he wasn't unable to. I'm just not sure what actually happened to Rand and what effect he appears to have on Darkfriends. All I'm sure of is that Moridin has no idea either.

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I don't really know what was in Verin's letter to Galad, but I have speculations on the other two.

 

Letter to Rand: Tells Rand about the Darkfriends among the High Lords of Tear (Weiramon and Anaiyella). I know everyone loves to think Rand can magically see Darkfriends (as per what happened in Maradon with Bashere's cousin gouging his eyes out and the wife jumping from the windows), and I thought that too, but my friend speculated this to me and I tend to agree. The letter may also have had something to do with his proposed Dragon's Peace, or the little fat man angreal. But telling Rand about the Darkfriends (which she could have rooted out herself instead of just magically knowing about) near him makes the most sense.

 

Letter to Alanna: I honestly think Alanna was a Darkfriend. Verin told Perrin explicitly not to trust her. I know she helped Rand with the Tairen rebellion in book 10 or 11, but she could be an agent of the shadow. Verin's letter could have told her that Verin knew she was a Darkfriend and explained what Verin did to sacrifice herself. That may have spurred Alanna to likewise let go of the bond to help protect Rand and the world in her final moments in hope of redemption. It was constantly shown that Darkfriends aren't the most loyal to the Dark One, they are simply terrified of him and his torturous methods (case in point: Moridin's resurrection).

 

This is a great post.  No idea if you're correct or not, but great ideas.

 

Re Rand's letter and that DF Tear lords (Weiramon and Anaiyella). I'm sure I remember there was a line in AMOl where it says that Rand used Saidin to listen to their heart beats which is how he discovered them.

 

As another pointed out, Moridin was the one who said that Rand merely listened to heartbeats.  Might be true, might not be true.  I actually much prefer the idea that he already knew and bluffed everyone into thinking that he had a new power.  It fits with the fact that he secretly uses the fat man to make himself seem more powerful to (1) provide hope to the Light and (2) cast fear into the Shadow.

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On Verin's letters:

 

I'm drawing a blank for Galad.

 

For Alanna, I think the most likely option is that she is Black Ajah and Verin taught her the last hour trick (as to why it never occurred to any other BA, the problem is you have to ensure your own death before you can test your hypothesis). Why she left was more problematic, but maybe her presence at SG was always part of the plan? So it's not about capture, just about when she's going to obey the order to go (and perhaps Verin even included the subversive info with the order).

 

For Rand, I think she told him the fat man angreal had been left at Dumai's Well. E.g., she notices it lying in the mud, but can't risk bending down to grab it with the Asha'man around (who for any number of reasons she already suspects). So she instead surreptitiously presses it further into the mud with her foot and it isn't found. Otherwise, Rand rather randomly deciding to go look for the angreal is rather problematic.

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I don't really know what was in Verin's letter to Galad, but I have speculations on the other two.

 

Letter to Rand: Tells Rand about the Darkfriends among the High Lords of Tear (Weiramon and Anaiyella). I know everyone loves to think Rand can magically see Darkfriends (as per what happened in Maradon with Bashere's cousin gouging his eyes out and the wife jumping from the windows), and I thought that too, but my friend speculated this to me and I tend to agree. The letter may also have had something to do with his proposed Dragon's Peace, or the little fat man angreal. But telling Rand about the Darkfriends (which she could have rooted out herself instead of just magically knowing about) near him makes the most sense.

 

Letter to Alanna: I honestly think Alanna was a Darkfriend. Verin told Perrin explicitly not to trust her. I know she helped Rand with the Tairen rebellion in book 10 or 11, but she could be an agent of the shadow. Verin's letter could have told her that Verin knew she was a Darkfriend and explained what Verin did to sacrifice herself. That may have spurred Alanna to likewise let go of the bond to help protect Rand and the world in her final moments in hope of redemption. It was constantly shown that Darkfriends aren't the most loyal to the Dark One, they are simply terrified of him and his torturous methods (case in point: Moridin's resurrection).

 

This is a great post.  No idea if you're correct or not, but great ideas.

 

>Re Rand's letter and that DF Tear lords (Weiramon and Anaiyella). I'm sure I remember there was a line in AMOl where it says that Rand used Saidin to listen to their heart beats which is how he discovered them.

 

As another pointed out, Moridin was the one who said that Rand merely listened to heartbeats.  Might be true, might not be true.  I actually much prefer the idea that he already knew and bluffed everyone into thinking that he had a new power.  It fits with the fact that he secretly uses the fat man to make himself seem more powerful to (1) provide hope to the Light and (2) cast fear into the Shadow.

 

Rand was disappointed when it turned out to be Weriamon, so it wasn't something he was expecting.   Considering how Rand had hoped Werimon would ride off in a charge and get himself killed I am not sure why he should be disappointed Weiramon was a DF. 

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Verin could have given Rand a pro-tip about the Last Battle and the Dark One. She told Egwene that the reality might be very different than what Rand expected. 

 

As for Alanna, either she told her the last-hour trick, or she was warning her to flee because the Shadow was going to attempt to capture her and use her against Rand.

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I don't really know what was in Verin's letter to Galad, but I have speculations on the other two.

 

Letter to Rand: Tells Rand about the Darkfriends among the High Lords of Tear (Weiramon and Anaiyella). I know everyone loves to think Rand can magically see Darkfriends (as per what happened in Maradon with Bashere's cousin gouging his eyes out and the wife jumping from the windows), and I thought that too, but my friend speculated this to me and I tend to agree. The letter may also have had something to do with his proposed Dragon's Peace, or the little fat man angreal. But telling Rand about the Darkfriends (which she could have rooted out herself instead of just magically knowing about) near him makes the most sense.

 

Letter to Alanna: I honestly think Alanna was a Darkfriend. Verin told Perrin explicitly not to trust her. I know she helped Rand with the Tairen rebellion in book 10 or 11, but she could be an agent of the shadow. Verin's letter could have told her that Verin knew she was a Darkfriend and explained what Verin did to sacrifice herself. That may have spurred Alanna to likewise let go of the bond to help protect Rand and the world in her final moments in hope of redemption. It was constantly shown that Darkfriends aren't the most loyal to the Dark One, they are simply terrified of him and his torturous methods (case in point: Moridin's resurrection).

 

This is a great post.  No idea if you're correct or not, but great ideas.

 

>Re Rand's letter and that DF Tear lords (Weiramon and Anaiyella). I'm sure I remember there was a line in AMOl where it says that Rand used Saidin to listen to their heart beats which is how he discovered

them.

 

As another pointed out, Moridin was the one who said that Rand merely listened to heartbeats.  Might be true, might not be true.  I actually much prefer the idea that he already knew and bluffed everyone into thinking that he had a new power.  It fits with the fact that he secretly uses the fat man to make himself seem more powerful to (1) provide hope to the Light and (2) cast fear into the Shadow.

Rand was disappointed when it turned out to be Weriamon, so it wasn't something he was expecting.   Considering how Rand had hoped Werimon would ride off in a charge and get himself killed I am not sure why he should be disappointed Weiramon was a DF. 

 

 

That wasn't Rand's POV--in fact we don't get a single POV from Rand during TOM until the epilogue (which seems to be intentional so the readers are equally left in the dark about the extent of Rand's new powers).  We don't know his actual thoughts on the issue--I don't recall him thinking about Weiramon in AMOL--but if he's bluffing of course he would pretend to be "disappointed" that one of the High Lords is a Darkfriend, so I don't see how that's dispositive of anything. 

 

Really, it's just a theory.  The idea that she told him where the fat man was is also a good one.  We'll never know.

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I don't really know what was in Verin's letter to Galad, but I have speculations on the other two.

 

Letter to Rand: Tells Rand about the Darkfriends among the High Lords of Tear (Weiramon and Anaiyella). I know everyone loves to think Rand can magically see Darkfriends (as per what happened in Maradon with Bashere's cousin gouging his eyes out and the wife jumping from the windows), and I thought that too, but my friend speculated this to me and I tend to agree. The letter may also have had something to do with his proposed Dragon's Peace, or the little fat man angreal. But telling Rand about the Darkfriends (which she could have rooted out herself instead of just magically knowing about) near him makes the most sense.

 

Letter to Alanna: I honestly think Alanna was a Darkfriend. Verin told Perrin explicitly not to trust her. I know she helped Rand with the Tairen rebellion in book 10 or 11, but she could be an agent of the shadow. Verin's letter could have told her that Verin knew she was a Darkfriend and explained what Verin did to sacrifice herself. That may have spurred Alanna to likewise let go of the bond to help protect Rand and the world in her final moments in hope of redemption. It was constantly shown that Darkfriends aren't the most loyal to the Dark One, they are simply terrified of him and his torturous methods (case in point: Moridin's resurrection).

 

This is a great post.  No idea if you're correct or not, but great ideas.

 

>Re Rand's letter and that DF Tear lords (Weiramon and Anaiyella). I'm sure I remember there was a line in AMOl where it says that Rand used Saidin to listen to their heart beats which is how he discovered

them.

 

As another pointed out, Moridin was the one who said that Rand merely listened to heartbeats.  Might be true, might not be true.  I actually much prefer the idea that he already knew and bluffed everyone into thinking that he had a new power.  It fits with the fact that he secretly uses the fat man to make himself seem more powerful to (1) provide hope to the Light and (2) cast fear into the Shadow.

Rand was disappointed when it turned out to be Weriamon, so it wasn't something he was expecting.   Considering how Rand had hoped Werimon would ride off in a charge and get himself killed I am not sure why he should be disappointed Weiramon was a DF. 

 

It is true that Rand seemed disappointed that Weiramon was the DF, but it is obvious he knew there was a Darkfriend. I think Verin's letter said there are/is Darkfriend(s) amongst the High Lords of Tear, but she didn't know who. Like how Talene of the Black Ajah thought Elaida was Black also, but only because of the information the Black ahd access to. The same could be true for Tear. Verin knew a High Lord was a DF, but she didn't know which one. So she told Rand to line them up and glare at them each in turn until they out themselves.

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I don't really know what was in Verin's letter to Galad, but I have speculations on the other two.

 

Letter to Rand: Tells Rand about the Darkfriends among the High Lords of Tear (Weiramon and Anaiyella). I know everyone loves to think Rand can magically see Darkfriends (as per what happened in Maradon with Bashere's cousin gouging his eyes out and the wife jumping from the windows), and I thought that too, but my friend speculated this to me and I tend to agree. The letter may also have had something to do with his proposed Dragon's Peace, or the little fat man angreal. But telling Rand about the Darkfriends (which she could have rooted out herself instead of just magically knowing about) near him makes the most sense.

 

Letter to Alanna: I honestly think Alanna was a Darkfriend. Verin told Perrin explicitly not to trust her. I know she helped Rand with the Tairen rebellion in book 10 or 11, but she could be an agent of the shadow. Verin's letter could have told her that Verin knew she was a Darkfriend and explained what Verin did to sacrifice herself. That may have spurred Alanna to likewise let go of the bond to help protect Rand and the world in her final moments in hope of redemption. It was constantly shown that Darkfriends aren't the most loyal to the Dark One, they are simply terrified of him and his torturous methods (case in point: Moridin's resurrection).

 

As for Galad, I have no idea at all. Ideas? Thoughts on my speculations?

In reference to Alanna's letter, if she were Black Ajah, wouldn't Verin have her on the list she gave to Egwene?  I don't recall Egwene ever mentioning Alanna being BA at all.  Min's viewing of her, Bera, Merana, Rafela and Faeldrin was, "They will keep their word. I just saw these five in your hand." This leads me to believe that she wasn't BA.

 

Alanna was one of my favorite Aes Sedai.  I was upset that her role was shrunk in the last few books.  I was hoping that BS would have tied up her storyline nicely.

 

These letters are getting to me.  I've been wanting to know what's in them for quite some time now.  Maybe someone will ask about them at one of the signings and BS will clear up the mystery.

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I don't really know what was in Verin's letter to Galad, but I have speculations on the other two.

 

Letter to Rand: Tells Rand about the Darkfriends among the High Lords of Tear (Weiramon and Anaiyella). I know everyone loves to think Rand can magically see Darkfriends (as per what happened in Maradon with Bashere's cousin gouging his eyes out and the wife jumping from the windows), and I thought that too, but my friend speculated this to me and I tend to agree. The letter may also have had something to do with his proposed Dragon's Peace, or the little fat man angreal. But telling Rand about the Darkfriends (which she could have rooted out herself instead of just magically knowing about) near him makes the most sense.

 

Letter to Alanna: I honestly think Alanna was a Darkfriend. Verin told Perrin explicitly not to trust her. I know she helped Rand with the Tairen rebellion in book 10 or 11, but she could be an agent of the shadow. Verin's letter could have told her that Verin knew she was a Darkfriend and explained what Verin did to sacrifice herself. That may have spurred Alanna to likewise let go of the bond to help protect Rand and the world in her final moments in hope of redemption. It was constantly shown that Darkfriends aren't the most loyal to the Dark One, they are simply terrified of him and his torturous methods (case in point: Moridin's resurrection).

 

As for Galad, I have no idea at all. Ideas? Thoughts on my speculations?

In reference to Alanna's letter, if she were Black Ajah, wouldn't Verin have her on the list she gave to Egwene?  I don't recall Egwene ever mentioning Alanna being BA at all.  Min's viewing of her, Bera, Merana, Rafela and Faeldrin was, "They will keep their word. I just saw these five in your hand." This leads me to believe that she wasn't BA.

 

Alanna was one of my favorite Aes Sedai.  I was upset that her role was shrunk in the last few books.  I was hoping that BS would have tied up her storyline nicely.

 

These letters are getting to me.  I've been wanting to know what's in them for quite some time now.  Maybe someone will ask about them at one of the signings and BS will clear up the mystery.

Good point about Alanna.

 

As to Galad, I was thinking that maybe Verin told him the truth about Perrin's family (deduced at the time but kept to herself), and then Galad encouraged Bornhald to confess to Perrin (I forget if Galad was present and what his reaction was if so).

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I don't really know what was in Verin's letter to Galad, but I have speculations on the other two.

 

Letter to Rand: Tells Rand about the Darkfriends among the High Lords of Tear (Weiramon and Anaiyella). I know everyone loves to think Rand can magically see Darkfriends (as per what happened in Maradon with Bashere's cousin gouging his eyes out and the wife jumping from the windows), and I thought that too, but my friend speculated this to me and I tend to agree. The letter may also have had something to do with his proposed Dragon's Peace, or the little fat man angreal. But telling Rand about the Darkfriends (which she could have rooted out herself instead of just magically knowing about) near him makes the most sense.

 

Letter to Alanna: I honestly think Alanna was a Darkfriend. Verin told Perrin explicitly not to trust her. I know she helped Rand with the Tairen rebellion in book 10 or 11, but she could be an agent of the shadow. Verin's letter could have told her that Verin knew she was a Darkfriend and explained what Verin did to sacrifice herself. That may have spurred Alanna to likewise let go of the bond to help protect Rand and the world in her final moments in hope of redemption. It was constantly shown that Darkfriends aren't the most loyal to the Dark One, they are simply terrified of him and his torturous methods (case in point: Moridin's resurrection).

 

This is a great post.  No idea if you're correct or not, but great ideas.

 

>Re Rand's letter and that DF Tear lords (Weiramon and Anaiyella). I'm sure I remember there was a line in AMOl where it says that Rand used Saidin to listen to their heart beats which is how he discovere

dthem.

 

As another pointed out, Moridin was the one who said that Rand merely listened to heartbeats.  Might be true, might not be true.  I actually much prefer the idea that he already knew and bluffed everyone into thinking that he had a new power.  It fits with the fact that he secretly uses the fat man to make himself seem more powerful to (1) provide hope to the Light and (2) cast fear into the Shadow.

Rand was disappointed when it turned out to be Weriamon, so it wasn't something he was expecting.   Considering how Rand had hoped Werimon would ride off in a charge and get himself killed I am not sure why he should be disappointed Weiramon was a DF. 

 

That wasn't Rand's POV--in fact we don't get a single POV from Rand during TOM until the epilogue (which seems to be intentional so the readers are equally left in the dark about the extent of Rand's new powers).  We don't know his actual thoughts on the issue--I don't recall him thinking about Weiramon in AMOL--but if he's bluffing of course he would pretend to be "disappointed" that one of the High Lords is a Darkfriend, so I don't see how that's dispositive of anything. 

 

Really, it's just a theory.  The idea that she told him where the fat man was is also a good one.  We'll never know.

 

Min said she felt disappointment through the bond.

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I don't really know what was in Verin's letter to Galad, but I have speculations on the other two.

 

Letter to Rand: Tells Rand about the Darkfriends among the High Lords of Tear (Weiramon and Anaiyella). I know everyone loves to think Rand can magically see Darkfriends (as per what happened in Maradon with Bashere's cousin gouging his eyes out and the wife jumping from the windows), and I thought that too, but my friend speculated this to me and I tend to agree. The letter may also have had something to do with his proposed Dragon's Peace, or the little fat man angreal. But telling Rand about the Darkfriends (which she could have rooted out herself instead of just magically knowing about) near him makes the most sense.

 

Letter to Alanna: I honestly think Alanna was a Darkfriend. Verin told Perrin explicitly not to trust her. I know she helped Rand with the Tairen rebellion in book 10 or 11, but she could be an agent of the shadow. Verin's letter could have told her that Verin knew she was a Darkfriend and explained what Verin did to sacrifice herself. That may have spurred Alanna to likewise let go of the bond to help protect Rand and the world in her final moments in hope of redemption. It was constantly shown that Darkfriends aren't the most loyal to the Dark One, they are simply terrified of him and his torturous methods (case in point: Moridin's resurrection).

 

As for Galad, I have no idea at all. Ideas? Thoughts on my speculations?

In reference to Alanna's letter, if she were Black Ajah, wouldn't Verin have her on the list she gave to Egwene?  I don't recall Egwene ever mentioning Alanna being BA at all.  Min's viewing of her, Bera, Merana, Rafela and Faeldrin was, "They will keep their word. I just saw these five in your hand." This leads me to believe that she wasn't BA.

 

Alanna was one of my favorite Aes Sedai.  I was upset that her role was shrunk in the last few books.  I was hoping that BS would have tied up her storyline nicely.

 

These letters are getting to me.  I've been wanting to know what's in them for quite some time now.  Maybe someone will ask about them at one of the signings and BS will clear up the mystery.

 

I lean toward Alanna not being BA, but not because of Min's viewing.  After all, Min also gave a viewing that Elza (among others) would serve Rand and she ended up being BA.

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Alanna must have been DF. When she leaves the stone at Tear, the other AS or the AM present do not feel any channeling so logically either she or someone else used the True Power to take her away.And as she was packed and ready to leave she was obviously not kidnapped. 

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Alanna must have been DF. When she leaves the stone at Tear, the other AS or the AM present do not feel any channeling so logically either she or someone else used the True Power to take her away.And as she was packed and ready to leave she was obviously not kidnapped. 

 

why release the bond if she was a true DF wishing the victory of the DO ?

 

why was she not in the verin's list if she was a DF ?

 

and she was perhaps ready to leave because she feared to be kidnapped and has been caught before flying ...

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Alanna must have been DF. When she leaves the stone at Tear, the other AS or the AM present do not feel any channeling so logically either she or someone else used the True Power to take her away.And as she was packed and ready to leave she was obviously not kidnapped. 

 

why release the bond if she was a true DF wishing the victory of the DO ?

 

why was she not in the verin's list if she was a DF ?

 

and she was perhaps ready to leave because she feared to be kidnapped and has been caught before flying ...

 

Maybe she was a DF who had a change of heart at the last hour of her life when she realized that she is just a pawn and will get nothing as promised?

 

Verrin did not know every DF

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Alanna must have been DF. When she leaves the stone at Tear, the other AS or the AM present do not feel any channeling so logically either she or someone else used the True Power to take her away.And as she was packed and ready to leave she was obviously not kidnapped. 

 

why release the bond if she was a true DF wishing the victory of the DO ?

 

why was she not in the verin's list if she was a DF ?

 

and she was perhaps ready to leave because she feared to be kidnapped and has been caught before flying ...

 

Maybe she was a DF who had a change of heart at the last hour of her life when she realized that she is just a pawn and will get nothing as promised?

 

Verrin did not know every DF

 

but why would Alanna have a change in mind just when the DO is going to win ???

 

Verin had no change in mind before dying , she was always a spy ...

 

and i agree that Verin did'nt know all the DF but she was knowing Alanna quite well from the 2 rivers battle ... i don't think that the events here could fit well with 2 black sisters fighting trollocs without knowing that the other sister is BA too ...

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Alanna must have been DF. When she leaves the stone at Tear, the other AS or the AM present do not feel any channeling so logically either she or someone else used the True Power to take her away.And as she was packed and ready to leave she was obviously not kidnapped. 

 

why release the bond if she was a true DF wishing the victory of the DO ?

 

why was she not in the verin's list if she was a DF ?

 

and she was perhaps ready to leave because she feared to be kidnapped and has been caught before flying ...

 

Maybe she was a DF who had a change of heart at the last hour of her life when she realized that she is just a pawn and will get nothing as promised?

 

Verrin did not know every DF

 

but why would Alanna have a change in mind just when the DO is going to win ???

 

Verin had no change in mind before dying , she was always a spy ...

 

and i agree that Verin did'nt know all the DF but she was knowing Alanna quite well from the 2 rivers battle ... i don't think that the events here could fit well with 2 black sisters fighting trollocs without knowing that the other sister is BA too ...

 

I think it was pretty obvious she was kidnapped from all of the information gathered.  Nobody sensed the source because it was the true source that was used and that means one of the forsaken picked her up.

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Alanna must have been DF. When she leaves the stone at Tear, the other AS or the AM present do not feel any channeling so logically either she or someone else used the True Power to take her away.And as she was packed and ready to leave she was obviously not kidnapped. 

 

why release the bond if she was a true DF wishing the victory of the DO ?

 

why was she not in the verin's list if she was a DF ?

 

and she was perhaps ready to leave because she feared to be kidnapped and has been caught before flying ...

 

Maybe she was a DF who had a change of heart at the last hour of her life when she realized that she is just a pawn and will get nothing as promised?

 

Verrin did not know every DF

 

but why would Alanna have a change in mind just when the DO is going to win ???

 

Verin had no change in mind before dying , she was always a spy ...

 

and i agree that Verin did'nt know all the DF but she was knowing Alanna quite well from the 2 rivers battle ... i don't think that the events here could fit well with 2 black sisters fighting trollocs without knowing that the other sister is BA too ...

 

Because she was going to die,betrayed by the shadow? Why would she care what happens to the DO in that case.

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A word about Verin's letter to Rand...

 

It could have been about the White Tower holding Matin Stepaneos and a possible correlation to Alsalam's whereabouts.

 

I thought it was obvious that was indeed in Verin's letter.

 

I also think it clear that some version of "there's at least one Darkfriend amongst the High Lords of Tear, I suspect Weiramon" was in there too.

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I feel that the Alanna Abduction/Darkfriend question is a very easy one to answer. Cadsuane would have detected Saidar or Saidin if they were used for a gateway, even if they were being hidden. If she didn't feel either of those, we can safely assume that Alanna was taken by someone who could wield the True Power, which must be one of the Forsaken, most likely Moridin.

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