Not In The Book Discussion (Full Spoilers)

[Suttree]

Where did the Ogier come from? I can't remember?

Originally? They come from a "parallel world" much like "Sindhol" the  Snakes and Foxes realm. That is different from a "mirror world" which is what Rand visits by portal stone.

[Winespring Patron]

 

Where did the Ogier come from? I can't remember?

Originally? They come from a "parallel world" much like "Sindhol" the  Snakes and Foxes realm. That is different from a "mirror world" which is what Rand visits by portal stone.

Is this also true for the Nym or are they "constructs"?

[Suttree]

 

 

 

Where did the Ogier come from? I can't remember?

Originally? They come from a "parallel world" much like "Sindhol" the Snakes and Foxes realm. That is different from a "mirror world" which is what Rand visits by portal stone.

Is this also true for the Nym or are they "constructs"?

Nym are constructs whose souls per RJ are "borrowed" from the pool awaiting rebirth.

[Thews Lerin]

Not to second-guess BS, who I think did a masterful job with what he was given, but I completely agree with Suttree about how much of AMoL is taken up with battle scenes, while so little is given to resolving all the various plot lines and characters. I recall thinking "what the heck? there's less than 100 pages left and we haven't seen hide nor dagger of Padan Fain? It kinda felt like BS went "this thing is getting too long, need to wrap it up" and just crammed everything in at the end.

 

There's a lot on this thread about the Song. RJ said that there is no "Song" per se, according to various posts. I am not surprised at that, because I always felt that the Song is really more of a concept, like Peace for hippies.

 

I seem to recall on another thread on DM that BS said something to the effect that when he read RJ's notes, there was some big unanswered question that was going to be answered that he couldn't believe hadn't been asked because it was so glaringly obvious that it should have been asked (or something like that). Does anyone else remember that? And if so, did we ever get resolution on it?

 

Also, someone said we had a definitive answer to who killed Asmodean in ToM, but I don't think that's true. Perhaps I forgot. It was so long between books that I need to go back and re-read the whole series again. 

 

I don't have a problem with most of the things that are left hanging, because they are in the future, and the series would have to go on to another book to cover them all. But something bothers me about the magic pipe lighting, since there is no precedent for anything like it in the series. I think BS put it in there to mess with us.

[wRAR]

Also, someone said we had a definitive answer to who killed Asmodean in ToM, but I don't think that's true. Perhaps I forgot. It was so long between books that I need to go back and re-read the whole series again. 

It's hinted in the text and stated directly in the glossary. 

[PhoenixUK]

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I realize that there simply wasn't space in AMOL to have every warm hearted, feel good closure scene between characters but I was really hoping that Mat and Nynaeve got a closing scene together.

Wasn't space?! As if we needed scene after scene of that video game esque battle porn where trollocs were chopped down like fodder? There was more than enough room for scenes like that.

i agree. We should have had more scenes between different characters. Moiraine and suian, for example, or moiraine and Lan. We didnt need SO much time spent on endless battle scenes, even if it is the Last battle, or the adventures of Pevara and Androl. 

[PhoenixUK]

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Where did the Ogier come from? I can't remember?

Originally? They come from a "parallel world" much like "Sindhol" the Snakes and Foxes realm. That is different from a "mirror world" which is what Rand visits by portal stone.

Is this also true for the Nym or are they "constructs"?

Nym are constructs whose souls per RJ are "borrowed" from the pool awaiting rebirth.

i knew they were contrsucts, had no idea their souls were borrowed from those awaiting Rebirth! I did wonder about whether they had souls or not. 

[Viperswhip]

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I realize that there simply wasn't space in AMOL to have every warm hearted, feel good closure scene between characters but I was really hoping that Mat and Nynaeve got a closing scene together.

Wasn't space?! As if we needed scene after scene of that video game esque battle porn where trollocs were chopped down like fodder? There was more than enough room for scenes like that.

i agree. We should have had more scenes between different characters. Moiraine and suian, for example, or moiraine and Lan. We didnt need SO much time spent on endless battle scenes, even if it is the Last battle, or the adventures of Pevara and Androl. 

Moiraine and Lan met, it was very underwhelming, but they did meet. You'd think they would be happy for each other. Maybe Lan held a grudge that she didn't tell him what was going to happen, but he honestly can't be upset about his bond being passed.

 

So, I don't know, it got like a whole 2 sentences, but it was there. More Moiraine and Nynaeve actually communicating. I guess we can just hope they become friends.

[The_Underage_Asha'man]

 

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I realize that there simply wasn't space in AMOL to have every warm hearted, feel good closure scene between characters but I was really hoping that Mat and Nynaeve got a closing scene together.

Wasn't space?! As if we needed scene after scene of that video game esque battle porn where trollocs were chopped down like fodder? There was more than enough room for scenes like that.

i agree. We should have had more scenes between different characters. Moiraine and suian, for example, or moiraine and Lan. We didnt need SO much time spent on endless battle scenes, even if it is the Last battle, or the adventures of Pevara and Androl. 

Moiraine and Lan met, it was very underwhelming, but they did meet. You'd think they would be happy for each other. Maybe Lan held a grudge that she didn't tell him what was going to happen, but he honestly can't be upset about his bond being passed.

 

So, I don't know, it got like a whole 2 sentences, but it was there. More Moiraine and Nynaeve actually communicating. I guess we can just hope they become friends.

I don't think it was underwhelming, not at all. When you've known a person for as long as they have, you can say a lot by not saying anything at all. I'm sure that they had an understanding of each other. But you have to remember, when Moiraine returned, it was right before the LB, the fight for the fate of the entire Pattern. It wasn't exactly the ideal time for flowery reunions.

[Rhienne]

I don't think it was underwhelming, not at all. When you've known a

person for as long as they have, you can say a lot by not saying

anything at all. I'm sure that they had an understanding of each other.

But you have to remember, when Moiraine returned, it was right before

the LB, the fight for the fate of the entire Pattern. It wasn't exactly

the ideal time for flowery reunions.

I don't think they said a lot by being cool but civil to each other.  I am not buying that they would not have a single word to say to each other after sharing 20 years on the same quest and the traumatic way they were separated.  Additionally, they may have had some form of understanding but it is a writers job to show the fans this kind of thing.  An internal comment in a POV would have done as well as dialogue but there was nothing.  Rand had time to go round giving gifts to everyone and spending the night with Avi.  There were plenty of discussions during the battle between characters, e.g. Egwene and Gawyn, Tuon with Mat and Min.

[Viperswhip]

 

 

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I realize that there simply wasn't space in AMOL to have every warm hearted, feel good closure scene between characters but I was really hoping that Mat and Nynaeve got a closing scene together.

Wasn't space?! As if we needed scene after scene of that video game esque battle porn where trollocs were chopped down like fodder? There was more than enough room for scenes like that.

i agree. We should have had more scenes between different characters. Moiraine and suian, for example, or moiraine and Lan. We didnt need SO much time spent on endless battle scenes, even if it is the Last battle, or the adventures of Pevara and Androl. 

Moiraine and Lan met, it was very underwhelming, but they did meet. You'd think they would be happy for each other. Maybe Lan held a grudge that she didn't tell him what was going to happen, but he honestly can't be upset about his bond being passed.

 

So, I don't know, it got like a whole 2 sentences, but it was there. More Moiraine and Nynaeve actually communicating. I guess we can just hope they become friends.

I don't think it was underwhelming, not at all. When you've known a person for as long as they have, you can say a lot by not saying anything at all. I'm sure that they had an understanding of each other. But you have to remember, when Moiraine returned, it was right before the LB, the fight for the fate of the entire Pattern. It wasn't exactly the ideal time for flowery reunions.

I don't have the book here, but they were described as being a bit frosty with each other...not exactly the reunion of people who worked so closely together for 18 or so years.

[Suttree]

 

 

I don't think it was underwhelming, not at all. When you've known a

person for as long as they have, you can say a lot by not saying

anything at all. I'm sure that they had an understanding of each other.

But you have to remember, when Moiraine returned, it was right before

the LB, the fight for the fate of the entire Pattern. It wasn't exactly

the ideal time for flowery reunions.

I don't think they said a lot by being cool but civil to each other.  I am not buying that they would not have a single word to say to each other after sharing 20 years on the same quest and the traumatic way they were separated.  Additionally, they may have had some form of understanding but it is a writers job to show the fans this kind of thing.  An internal comment in a POV would have done as well as dialogue but there was nothing.  Rand had time to go round giving gifts to everyone and spending the night with Avi. There were plenty of discussions during the battle between characters, e.g. Egwene and Gawyn, Tuon with Mat and Min.

This actually is one of the problems with Brandon's writing, the lack of inner pov on subjects like this fits into a larger pattern. Often when characters start talking we stop getting any inner monologue during the discussion. RJ was very skilled at using those thoughts to guide things along in a subtle manner, teasing the readers towards what they need to know. Under Sanderson we rarely shown any of the inner thoughts and he just has the character "tell" what we need to know in a blunt manner.

[jjp]

Even if they don't want to speak to each other, giving us a POV so we can understand what's going on in the heads of these two main characters we've been waiting years to see together again would have helped so we don't need to make up our personal fanfic to explain it.

[Rasmus Nielsen]

Loial rediscovers the Song of Growing, while fighting Trollocs, as well

[crowbar]

It seems much was made about the "Song" throughout the series....but nothing came of this (or did i forget something).  thoughts.....

[Aleator77]

The "song" the way the Tinkers think of it never existed.  

 

I agree with others that a reunion scene with the original cast would have been nice....however I do think that the book would have gotten very repetitive if they forced in every single reunion that people wanted to see. 

[Suttree]

It seems much was made about the "Song" throughout the series....but nothing came of this (or did i forget something).  thoughts.....

There is no "song". It was just a myth that stemmed from the "voice" talent and songs of growing.

 

 

 

Interview: 2013                                                      

Twitter 2013 (WoT) (Verbatim)

                                            

Jay Fonseca (23 January 2013)                                                                                     

 

So I always wondered... what ever happened to the Tinkers' song? Did I miss a resolution to that arc?

                                            

Brandon Sanderson (23 January 2013)                                                                                       

 

By specific instruction from RJ, the Tinkers have not found their song as of the end of A Memory of Light.

Brandon Sanderson

The song of growing is not their "Song." The Song is a much more deep and philosophical concept, perhaps unattainable.

TJ

Do you imagine that Rand teaches "the song" to the Tu'athan after the events of A Memory of Light?

Brandon Sanderson

Rand does not know The Song. Anything he'd try to teach them, they would not accept as The Song.

Aaron Oster

Wait, are you saying Rand's song that Mat recognized wasn't the Tinkers' song?

Brandon Sanderson

The Tinker "Song" is an ideal that goes far beyond any song that has actually ever existed.

[Guest Paul Howard]

if you remember the Aes Sedai in the AoL had the ability to travel to other worlds....who is to say tht the Creator and DO are not from one of these worlds where everything is so far advanced and the  male and female Aes Sedai are not creations of them with a little of their blood in them.....that their full pwer never manifested in any of the channelers, but Rand, in his VoG moment had finally come to realize his full strength nd uses it.

[Suttree]

if you remember the Aes Sedai in the AoL had the ability to travel to other worlds....who is to say tht the Creator and DO are not from one of these worlds...

RJ

[EricB]

Anyone disapointed the whole suldams being able to channel didnt rip the Seanchan empire apart like I felt it was insinuated...

[Pinzarn]

Anyone disapointed the whole suldams being able to channel didnt rip the Seanchan empire apart like I felt it was insinuated...

 

Didn't even really cause a ripple in the Empire.

[Mats Spare Hat]

 

Anyone disapointed the whole suldams being able to channel didnt rip the Seanchan empire apart like I felt it was insinuated...

 

Didn't even really cause a ripple in the Empire.

 

I feel like the inclusion of that sort of angle, Seanchan reformation so to speak, like having the Hawkwing/Mat conversation for instance, detracted from the momentum of pivotal plot points, and undermined the strength of the narrative.

 

Sort of like, oh crap Olver blew the horn, here come the heros-rally time! Wait, wait hold on lets pause in the middle of that, and have a throwaway aside moment so we can say later ah ha! Hawkwing will talk to Tuon! Something will happen!..er...ah...nope.

[Knivy]

It would take more that telling a few higher-ups about it to cause trouble.  You would need to go on a massive propaganda campaign informing everyone about it for it to cause a stir.  Those in power are too invested in the suldam to care about it.

[BFG]

I don't think I mind Hawkwings conversation with Tuon not being in the book. At the time it would have broken the narrative, but knowing it occurs allows me to speculate about what it could lead to, but I prefer open-ended.

[mbuehner]

I don't think I mind Hawkwings conversation with Tuon not being in the book. At the time it would have broken the narrative, but knowing it occurs allows me to speculate about what it could lead to, but I prefer open-ended.

 

My version goes:

"Keep up the good work Empress", Artur Hawkwing.

 

But I'm a bit bloodyminded.