Prophecy; New and Fulfilled. (Full Spoilers)

[Suttree]

Yes it is a Beowulf reference.

[Leopoled Boothe]

It's been pretty much confirmed that Logain will now lead the Black Tower. Glory to come in being the male counterpart to the Amyrlin seat, bringing the concept of channeling Men back into a positive light, that's plenty of glory to come. As for Cadsuane's lesson, I really think we've seen this one. Rand mentions it in ToM. "We're not weapons, we never have been, we're men" (I know I'm probably not remembering that line exactly right.). Cadsuances focus was on teaching Rand that he could laugh, cry, be human and still be the Light's Champion. Just because she did it through failure and just because it wasn't entirely her intention to teach all of the Asha'Man that doesn't mean she didn't do it.

 

I think the Logain visions and dreams played out like this:  Min had here viewing go Logain's glory when he was still gentled.  Thus, the glory to come is fulfilled when Logain, a man who was once stilled by the laws of the Amyrlin seat ultimately becomes her equal.  As for Egwene's dream the puppet Rand that crumbles away refers to the moment when the Asha'man decide that The Dragon Reborn had little to do with their training and that it was actually Logain who always looked after them, and therefore recognize him as their leader.  A for ascending the black rock and laughing maniacally, the black rock is obviously the black tower and he laughs because he was gentled by the Aes Sadai but become the leader of their male counterparts.  He resents the AS for what they did to him and therefore laughs at them when he rises to glory.

[Leopoled Boothe]

Dark Prophesies come true as much as Light ones do. And the problem with this is that no one is consumed by the "Midnight Towers" whose fall causes fear and sorrow in the hearts of men. One I could think of was Lan, but I can't really see how him falling after killing Demandred would only cause fear and sorrow among men. Rand also doesn't quite fit.

 

I think this one refers to Moiraine as she was taken prisoner by the Finns who are associated with the Tower of Genjhi.  Her far brings sorrow because she is essential to Rand's victory per Min's viewing to "a woman long dead."

[hime]

was the veiwing about trees floowing around Perrin ever explaned?

[CanUFeelTheLove?]

 

 

one of the major points of the past 2 books has been that nothing is inevitable, not even prophesy. You even see it in Min's visions as she starts to see possibilities rather than certainties.

 

RJ said her viewings are absolute. When she sees options, then one of the options will happen. The only prophecies that aren't certain are Dreams, and those that were given after the Pattern began falling apart (around COT or KOD), but we only know of a couple that didn't come true. Like a Seanchan woman handing Egwene an a'dam, which I suspect was only left unfulfilled because ewot missed it on their list of prophecies.

So what's your take on "Three on a Boat". I'm not sure that was fulfilled.

 

Rand's the loveboat, and those three were his passengers. ;)

[Vels]

Binding the north to the east and the west to the south.

 

North = Blight

East = Shara

South = Randland

West = Seanchan

 

This assumes that Nicola's fortelling of the land being divided by the return is not a complientary prophesy to this one.

[Agitel]

The easiest interpretation of the N and E must be as one, and S and W must be as one, is the Return, IMO. Look at the map and draw seanchan territory and territory united under the Dragon. It fits.

[Jul]

Hello, I don't think it had been discussed yet but what about Min's viewing of Nynaeve

"Nynaeve kneeling over someone's corpse in a posture of grief." From TGS? I always thought Lan would bite it at the last battle and was confused when he didn't. But then again, I always thought Moiraine the White would return to kick ass after her fall with the balrog so...

 

Could it be Alanna? Rand's corpse? Something else earlier?

[MauricXe]

I'm gonna say Rand's.

 

haha I like your Moriaine comment

[MauricXe]

Appears Hopper was the broken wolf...per twitter:

 

"https://twitter.com/BrandSanderson/status/294198025256042496"

 

 

Q:

 

Who was the Broken Wolf?

 

A:

Perrin's spirit guide. Note that the "he" in the next sentence does not refer to the same creature.

[Lisa Campbell]

was the veiwing about trees floowing around Perrin ever explaned?

 

I think that may have been Loial singing to the apple trees where Perrin's family are buried

[wRAR]

Note that according to BS not every Min's viewing is supposed to be explained in books or mean something important (like with Alivia).

[Lisa Campbell]

And Loial singing to trees in Emond's Field is earth shatteringly important?

[wRAR]

And Loial singing to trees in Emond's Field is earth shatteringly important?

I never said that.

[Lisa Campbell]

OK sorry I'm tired, thought that was at me.

[aynatal2000]

First among vermin is Aviendha- she is named Vermin by Graendel and she is the first amongst the wise ones given the vision when she goes throught  rhuidean a third time the only maiden/wise one to do so and not die- others follow and are shown the same and Perrin speaking of them as tools to mediate the great powers changes the fate shown them will they fulfill the prophecy which says only a portion of them will survive. not as followers of the leaf but aiel as Rand knew them.

Three on a boat is easy; it's not a literal boat but they all three agree on the silence about Rand, they  are sisters and agree to make all believe he is truly dead- they begin a journey together a ride on the river of time, all who see them will hear he is dead but this is what he gave his life for- all of them.

When Rand let's go, there is the light a new day a second dawning,Broken Wolf is Iturralde- the wolves take him before he completely destroys the army through the compulsion cast on him,before he as a man of great worth is broken,defeated.

Perrin is the fallen blacksmith,felled by Lanfear's touch he does fall and is consumed . and that is the last day of his pride - when he kills a woman and begins to  deal with the fact his wife his pride, his Faile may truly be dead.

Egwene's  is the fact that she learned that damane and marath damane are both channelers...  and when she hands that fact to Tuon,taunting her with the threat of getting an adame and placing it on her to prove her point- well that fulfilled it for me! Oh was that gonna be a smackdown if Egwene had lived! Dern it!

[wRAR]

First among vermin is Aviendha- she is named Vermin by Graendel and she is the first amongst the wise ones given the vision when she goes throught  rhuidean a third time the only maiden/wise one to do so and not die- others follow and are shown the same and Perrin speaking of them as tools to mediate the great powers changes the fate shown them will they fulfill the prophecy which says only a portion of them will survive. not as followers of the leaf but aiel as Rand knew them.

 

What?

 

 

When Rand let's go, there is the light a new day a second dawning,

No, it's about the eclipse.

Broken Wolf is Iturralde

No, it's Hopper.

 

Egwene's  is the fact that she learned that damane and marath damane are both channelers...  and when she hands that fact to Tuon,taunting her with the threat of getting an adame and placing it on her to prove her point- well that fulfilled it for me! Oh was that gonna be a smackdown if Egwene had lived! Dern it!

What?

[JACKSONROY]

The Aiel Prophecy about how if they ever failed the Aes Sedai again they would slay them.

 

It is mentioned throughout the books up until the Wise Ones take part in battle at The Wells, but if it prophecy then surely it has to be, so how is the prophecy fulfilled? Any ideas?

 

Here's a quote from The Great Hunt ch 28
 

Urien looked at the sky as though he was trying to remember it. "Will you slay me now, Aes Sedai?"
She blinked. "What?"
"Will you slay me now? One of the old prophecies says that if ever we fail the Aes Sedai again, they will slay us. I know your power is greater than that of the Wise Ones."

[mbuehner]

 

@BrandSanderson Who was the Broken Wolf? #TorChat

BrandSanderson

Wed Jan 23

@sleepinghour Perrin's spirit guide. Note that the "he" in the next sentence does not refer to the same creature. #torchat

 

Ughh. No way this was anything but a dropped ball... which is pretty ridiculous given the importance given this prophecy in ToM.

 

"In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool

travels the halls of mourning, and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand

to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen

Blacksmith’s pride shall come. Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom

Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And

his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and

shall shake their very will itself."

 

1.There is no 'he' in the next sentence. There is a 'his' but if you discount the Broken Wolf from the preceding sentence, the final sentence has no apparent subject.

 

2.Discount the Broken Wolf and you can, perhaps (if you are willing to take the entire Wolf sentence as a badly gramatical interjection), choose any one of the Fool, First, or Blacksmith as the subject of the last line. But unfortunately none of them 'fell' in any demonstrable way, certainly not bringing fear and sorrow to anyone. Rand might be the closest, but he's the SECOND listed, making it a hell of an odd subject to pop up 2 sentences later.

 

3.Hopper was killed by Slayer, not by the Forsaken. Its a streeeeeetch to argue that Slayer was working under Graendals orders... especially given the orders didn't include killing Hopper. Isam and Luc like killing wolves and do it all the time anway. And 'consumed' makes no sense in this context, particularly 'fall' which is passive, and then be 'consumed' which is active. So far as we know no forsaken so much as new (or cared) that Hopper existed. Stretch poetic license as far as you like, it only stretches so far.

 

I don't see how this makes a lick of sense, even given a ton of leeway.

[bartes123]

Consider this:

 

 

"Lo,
it shall come upon the world that the prison of the Greatest One shall
grow weak, like the limbs of those who crafted it. Once again, His
glorious cloak shall smother the Pattern of all things, and the Great
Lord shall stretch forth His hand to claim what is His. The rebellious
nations shall be laid barren, their children caused to weep. There shall
be none but Him, and those who have turned their eyes to His majesty."

"In
that day, when the One-Eyed Fool (Matrim Couthon) travels the halls of mourning, and the
First Among Vermin (Mazrim Taim) his hand to bring freedom to Him who will
Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith’s pride shall come (Perrin killed by Slayer, while protecting Rand in Tel Aran Rhiod). Yea,
and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be
consumed by the Midnight Towers (Logain Ablar turned by Midnight Towers (13 dreadlords and 13 myrdraals)). And his destruction shall bring fear
and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will
itself."

"And
then, shall the Lord of the Evening (Shaitan) come. And He shall take our eyes,
for our souls shall bow before Him, and He shall take our skin, for our
flesh shall serve Him, and He shall take our lips, for only Him will we
praise. And the Lord of the Evening shall face the Broken Champion (Rand Al'Thor) , and
shall spill his blood and bring us the Darkness so beautiful. Let the
screams begin, O followers of the Shadow. Beg for your destruction!"

 

Well, what you think??

 

 

 

 

[wRAR]

"the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith’s pride shall come (Perrin killed by Slayer, while protecting Rand in Tel Aran Rhiod)"

 

No, because the prophecy was fulfilled.

[bartes123]

 

"the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith’s pride shall come (Perrin killed by Slayer, while protecting Rand in Tel Aran Rhiod)"

 

No, because the prophecy was fulfilled.

 

 

 

Where there is said, that the prophecy must be fulfilled? After all, the Dark One did loose, didn't he? So the prophecy cannot be fulfilled?

 

[bartes123]

Oh, and about that one:

"The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."

It is quite simple i think:

the lion sword - queen of Andor - Elayne

the dedicated spear - Aviendha

she who sees beyond - Min

he who is dead yet lives - Rand al'Thor - he is dead, well, his body after all :) And yet he lives in Moridin's body.

The Great Battle is over, but Dark Lord is still alive, but imprisoned. That means - the battle with evil shall have no end (Rand mentioned about leaving a free choice to every man - if they shall be good or bad)

Land divided by the return - Rand deal with Seanchan - they can take that part of land they already conquered, and Seanchan are returning "Hawkwings Childs"

guardians and servants - Ashamans and Aes Sedai i think

So, the prophecy is fulfilled, after all :)

 

Except the last line :( Dunno why the future is still on the edge of blade...

[wRAR]

 

 

"the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith’s pride shall come (Perrin killed by Slayer, while protecting Rand in Tel Aran Rhiod)"

 

No, because the prophecy was fulfilled.

 

 

 

Where there is said, that the prophecy must be fulfilled? After all, the Dark One did loose, didn't he? So the prophecy cannot be fulfilled?

If you don't believe that all Foretellings must be fulfilled, then these are BS's words about this particular one: "Everything in it happened, but not exactly as many would have interpreted."

[bartes123]

I'm quite sure about that, when the shadows prophecies are fulfilled, the others cannot, and opposite. So, as long as Rand defeat the Dark Lord not all of the shadows prophecies are true. The last days of fallen blaksmits pride shall come - for me it is obvious that this will happen, when the Dark Lord win. However I might be wrong, about Slayer killing Perrin.

 

But please - do me a feavor and tell me, what do you think about that prophecy.