Combat Skills; Egwene vs. Nynaeve (no ter/sa angreal)

[BFG]

Sorry - the wuotes I wanted to respond to disappeared.

 

Talaan/Moghedian vs Nyn prove that when 2 opponents of equal strength battle dexterity/out-smarting/doing something unexpected wins the battle.  (Since Talaan is equal strength with Nyn their's no basis for saying that dexterity can 'over-rule' power)

RJ states that womens dexterity makes up for the strength difference with men. 

We know that Eg is dextrous

We know that Nyn can be dextrous when it's something she's interested in.

We are not shown anything of Eg learning to channel before she's tested by AS in WT, yet she's become very skilled at all the weaves she was tested on, and likely most of them that AS know (since most AS have private weaves it is impossible for any AS to know every weave known).  This is believable because we know that Eg practices everything as much as possible - throws herself into being WO, Amrylin, etc.

We are shown Nyn spending time doing weaves outside of healing.

We know that Nyn is expecting to battle, has shown that she will battle, will in fact jump head-first into battle.

We know that Nyn improves on things that she practices - e.g. delving

Is it that hard to believe that Nyn will have practiced and improved on something that we know interests her, even though it's not been directly shown (in the way that Eg training after PoD has not been shown) - i.e. fighting? 

 

What we don't know is whether Egs greater all round dexterity, and all round knowledge would make up for Nyn's strength and dual experience, I think that the disagreement focuses on this?

 

 

 

Additionally someone's pointed out that just because Nyn is extremely dextrous with healing, doesn't mean that she's dextrous elsewhere - yet also implied that the fact that Eg is dextrous with gateways (which she invented for the girls) that she'd be equally dextrous dualling.  We've never seen Eg duelling outside of big battle situations (that I remember) so don't know how good she'll be in this situation.  We also don't know how Nyn will do in a big battle situation - she was semi-protected by the walls at the manor house and Rand/Ashaman seemed to take care of most of that, and was helped by/helping Cads and the others at the fake Tuon meeting, which numbers wise doesn't qualify as a 'big-battle' anyway. 

[Suttree]

We don't know Nynaeve is dexterous outside of healing, in fact the opposite is shown time and again. Further I would love to see quotes of Nyn working on and improving her skills/knowledge outside of healing that you reference BFG.

 

Also Egwene has shown to be dexterous in all areas. The juggling while stoned on forkroot is just one of many example showing that to be true. That is well established, much as it is established Nynaeve is "too specialized" outside of healing and has a "rough touch".

 

Edit: Also please don't say memorizing the 100 weave is where we see Nynaeve gain an equal amount of skills/knowledge as Egwene in general channeling. Memorizing useless weave offhand and not working on them beyond that DOES NOT equal mastering general channeling.

 

As an aside I do totally agree on what the big question is ie. skills, dexterity, knowledge v. strength. That is a tough one.

[BFG]

Delving, healing the taint, removing compulsion? All of these demonstrate dexterity outside of healing (as included in the healing talent) although they both relate to her interests, they are not healing The description of how she heals the taint doesn't sound anything like healing, and uses different Power strengths - from memory she uses one weave to lift the thorns (not healing) weaves a 'counter taint weave' (not healing) and heals the damage (healing). I'm pretty sure that it's Verin who says that delving and healing are different when she's compulsing the sisters, but I may be wrong on this. Countering the compulsion is also not healing. They do all relate to her interests and she's evidently practiced them all off-screen. The results are shown on-screen, but not the practice. I guess we'll have to wait and see with the fighting, there should be a lot of it coming up.

The problem is that you won't accept the training that she does to pass the 100 weaves as anything other than memorising. We're not informed of how many practice sessions she has, but in the one we do see, she repeats the same weave perfectly at least 3 times. Yes she's memorised them, but she's practicing them as well. Outside of this we don't see Nyn onscreen doing anything other than healing and things that are encompassed by a wider definition of healing, but not the Talent, in the same way we don't see Eg doing much channeling onscreen before and after the Battle.

So the assumption (and without in-text proof it is an assumption) that Eg practices everything is from understanding her personality. Nyn's personality has her practice the things she's interested in, we see that she is interested in battling therefore reading between the lines she practices those skills.

I'm not saying that Nyn has practiced every weave (like Eg does), but she does practice what interests her - anything and everything related to healing and evidently battling.

And as I said, Eg's greater all round dexterity and knowledge vs. Nyns strength and experience? I think all 4 are important in a fight, but so far I haven't read anything that convinces me to give Eg the edge - although you (not just you in particular :) ) have brought me closer to the middle.

I'm also going to add instant innovation to Nyn - Egs inventions are described as having been thought out - the cuendillar, the Gateways, entering TAR in teh flesh. Most of Nyns inventions are all impulsive, based on an instinctive understanding of what can be done - removing compulsion, healing the Taint, balefire (healing gentling was much more of a drawn out process), the way she uses the 'uselss' weaves in a combatative way in her test.

 

EDIT had started to reply before your edit.  No the 100 weaves do not mean that she's become as knowledgable about general weaves as Eg, but they go towards her own personal general knowledge - as a lot of Nyn's strength comes from innovation, anything she does outside of healing will help her more than it would other people (my opinion).

 

I give general knowledge to Eg, experience in dualling has to go to Nyn as Eg hasn't done any.  Experience in big battles clearly goes to Eg, but this thread seems to be focusing on a dual.
 

[Suttree]

There are zero assumptions being made, we do see Egg working/taking lessons and we know for fact she has the far wider skill/knowledge base. That is a good distinction you make though. Egwene has always had the drive to not only learn and do as much as possible, but also to be the best at those things. Nynaeve on the other hand has shown a miraculous ability to innovate and create under her healing umbrella.

 

All the things you mention above fall under the umbrella of Nyn's talent as it relates to healing/fixing all things. Why would you even try to deny that she has a heavy hand in other areas when it is explicitly stated throughout the series? As for how she memorized the weaves I'll post the quote later. She most certainly did not work on them in any appreciable way.

[BFG]

Eg has some lessons with Moiraine on the way to TV, she has lessons as a novice, fewer as an accepted before leaving the Tower, (in Falme we don't know how she is trained, but a good portion of that seems to be 'breaking' her spirit and relatively bog-standard destructive weaves, we also know she was tested for strength in Earth).  We don't see her doing anything but practice dreaming from then on until she leaves the Wise Ones.  We 'see' her probing Moghedian for information and see the results of this.  She goes to the Tower, the way that I read it, she had a few lessons with the Accepted and (rightly) humiliated them (and learned nothing new), she was put into private classes and was declared to know everything that she needed to, practically straight away.  We do not see her have lessons and practice outside of the Tower, we infer it because of her personality, because once she's decided to do something she does it full-heartedly.

 

Delving and the rest are not encompassed by the Healing Talent - they are encompassed by Nyns interest as they are included in a non-specific umbrella of healing.  So they go to show that she has skill and deftness outside of the Talent of healing, in areas that she's interested in and practices.  I would argue (and the quotes are already in this discussion) that Nyn is interested in battling.  My assumption is that as she practices what she's interested in, she's practiced battling.  Yes it's off-screen, so is most of Egs training in the Power. 

 

I know that she memorised the weaves, and didn't show much interest in them.  She also repeated the weave at least three times, repeating something means practicing (yes?) :)  Is her general knowledge equal to Egs - no, is her knowledge in areas she's interested in greater than Egs - in healing yes, the battling will have to be a rafo, (although I suspect that they'll both be awesome and there won't be much to choose between them)

 

I'm also not going to bother to argue that she has a heavy hand in other general areas - but I view delving, etc as an example to show that if she practices something, she becomes better at it - in line with people in real life. 

 

I guess a second difference of opinion is that I believe that she's practiced battling based on my opinion of her personality.

 

 

EDIT to clarify - I view delving, and the madness stuff as being outside of the Talent of healing, thus is something she's worked to improve (I'll look for Verins(?) quote later) and thus demonstrates deftness outside of the Talent of healing. 

 

Sorry it reads badly, but their seems to be a difference between the general description of healing - which encompasses herbs, Healing (with Power), mind stuff, etc and the Talent people can have with Healing, being good at Healing has nothing to do with a wider knowledge of healing, being good at Delving doesn't make you a good Healer etc.  Nyn is good at all of these because she practices and only the Healing part is because of her Talent.

[Mr Ares]

I don't really see Nyn's duels against Tal to be all that relevant... I guess I don't view her two victories as a matter of dexterity, but rather a victory of tactics. She started trying different tricks on Nyn's in my opinion, and managed to win the last two rounds of practice... Not too impressive after they'd been doing it for a time.

 

I personally always equated this scene with a time I was in a karate tournament when I was a kid. I faced an opponenent that would instantly attack you as soon as the round started. Literally, go was said, and then wham, I was hit. Well, in the next round, I heard go, took a step to the left, and promptly hit him as he went flying by. On the third round, I changed my tactics again knowing he'd be ready for my last ply. Lo and behold, he lost. That to me is exactly what Tal did... Tried a new tactic, got it to work, then changed it up when she knew Nyn's would be ready for it in the third round. To me, that doesn't show dexterity so much as just plain smarts.

It takes smarts to think of the right tactics. The dexterity was in how she applied them. If she lacked dexterity, could she really do that, even if she had the idea to try it? The text is quite clear that dexterity was involved.

 

I personally think that dexterity matters, but not so much as to counter Nyn's power advantage... To me, a direct attack by Nyn straight on would always win by a weaker channeler, as I'm not sure there is a counter to it. If there was, I think Mog would have used it during the 1v1 battle (ie, once they were locked in.)

As has been stated several times, that's the OP equivalent of an arm wrestling match. If all of your strength is committed, and the other person has more strength to apply, then you'll lose unless you can escape somehow. Egwene knows that Nynaeve is stronger, and is unlikely to commit to a contest of raw strength. If it is not a contest of pure strength, then dexterity absolutely can counter a power advantage. If Nynaeve tried a direct attack with all her strength, then Egwene would be outmatched if she tried to meet it head on. On the other hand, if she reacted like Talaan, then suddenly Nynaeve finds her weaves out of position and Egwene can take her. Strength is useful, but it would be foolish to rely on it.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Don't see much point in this thread. Wasn't Nynaeve about as strong as Egwene and Elayne combined? Moreover she's more experienced at fighting channellers as well and she's even more dexterious in terms of the complexity of her weaves as I recall. There was I believe some comment about Egwene and Elayne being awed by Nynaeve's complex Healing weaves. Besides I think there is a direct corelation between strength and dexterity anyways. The stronger one is the easier it is to split the flows in different ways and channel several things at the same time.

 

From what we've seen, baring a very great difference in experience the stronger one almost always wins in a straight up fight between same sex opponents. Dexterity and tactics only really counts when the strength of both sides is roughly even. And Nynaeve winning against Moggy does make sense regardless since Moggy never had much experience in fighting fairly. She always struck from hiding once that advantage was lost she didn't have any significant advantage in experience over Nynaeve.

[fionwe1987]

Don't see much point in this thread. Wasn't Nynaeve about as strong as Egwene and Elayne combined? Moreover she's more experienced at fighting channellers as well and she's even more dexterious in terms of the complexity of her weaves as I recall. There was I believe some comment about Egwene and Elayne being awed by Nynaeve's complex Healing weaves. Besides I think there is a direct corelation between strength and dexterity anyways. The stronger one is the easier it is to split the flows in different ways and channel several things at the same time.

 

From what we've seen, baring a very great difference in experience the stronger one almost always wins in a straight up fight between same sex opponents. Dexterity and tactics only really counts when the strength of both sides is roughly even. And Nynaeve winning against Moggy does make sense regardless since Moggy never had much experience in fighting fairly. She always struck from hiding once that advantage was lost she didn't have any significant advantage in experience over Nynaeve.

There seems to be a never-ending flood of these. Sheesh.

[Suttree]

 

 

Don't see much point in this thread. Wasn't Nynaeve about as strong as Egwene and Elayne combined? Moreover she's more experienced at fighting channellers as well and she's even more dexterious in terms of the complexity of her weaves as I recall. There was I believe some comment about Egwene and Elayne being awed by Nynaeve's complex Healing weaves. Besides I think there is a direct corelation between strength and dexterity anyways. The stronger one is the easier it is to split the flows in different ways and channel several things at the same time.

 

From what we've seen, baring a very great difference in experience the stronger one almost always wins in a straight up fight between same sex opponents. Dexterity and tactics only really counts when the strength of both sides is roughly even. And Nynaeve winning against Moggy does make sense regardless since Moggy never had much experience in fighting fairly. She always struck from hiding once that advantage was lost she didn't have any significant advantage in experience over Nynaeve.

There seems to be a never-ending flood of these. Sheesh.

It really is quite baffling how pull keep pulling things out of their ass on this topic. The reasonable posters in the discussion BFG, Ares etc. seem to be finding a common ground. Then we continue to have these outliers that seem to be just fabricating what they want their ideal of Nyn to be along with how fighting works.

 

[b3arz3rg3r]

 

 

 

Don't see much point in this thread. Wasn't Nynaeve about as strong as Egwene and Elayne combined? Moreover she's more experienced at fighting channellers as well and she's even more dexterious in terms of the complexity of her weaves as I recall. There was I believe some comment about Egwene and Elayne being awed by Nynaeve's complex Healing weaves. Besides I think there is a direct corelation between strength and dexterity anyways. The stronger one is the easier it is to split the flows in different ways and channel several things at the same time.

 

From what we've seen, baring a very great difference in experience the stronger one almost always wins in a straight up fight between same sex opponents. Dexterity and tactics only really counts when the strength of both sides is roughly even. And Nynaeve winning against Moggy does make sense regardless since Moggy never had much experience in fighting fairly. She always struck from hiding once that advantage was lost she didn't have any significant advantage in experience over Nynaeve.

There seems to be a never-ending flood of these. Sheesh.

It really is quite baffling how pull keep pulling things out of their ass on this topic. The reasonable posters in the discussion BFG, Ares etc. seem to be finding a common ground. Then we continue to have these outliers that seem to be just fabricating what they want their ideal of Nyn to be along with how fighting works.

 

 

Yeah yeah Suttree, honestly I really don't give a damn what you think whenever a thread is in any way related to Egwene.

 

All I did was voice my opinion and one which I think is grounded in what we've seen in the books. And from what we have seen it's a simple fact that the first determining factor of the outcome in any battle of the OP atleast when it is two of the same sex is strength. Stronger people learn quicker, they can split their flows better and in more ways, they are far more intuitive when it comes to channelling etc. That's all there is to it. That is my opinion and it won't change at this point.

This is a who would win in a fight thread, which are basically the lowest of the low other than pairing threads. There is no point in arguing or finding common ground with your own coterie of posters since this is a completely hypothetical situation where everyone's opinion is equally valid, by which I mean not at all. So even if you got twenty people with a combined number of posts in the millions disagreeing with me it wouldn't bother me in the least.

[fionwe1987]

 

 

 

Don't see much point in this thread. Wasn't Nynaeve about as strong as Egwene and Elayne combined? Moreover she's more experienced at fighting channellers as well and she's even more dexterious in terms of the complexity of her weaves as I recall. There was I believe some comment about Egwene and Elayne being awed by Nynaeve's complex Healing weaves. Besides I think there is a direct corelation between strength and dexterity anyways. The stronger one is the easier it is to split the flows in different ways and channel several things at the same time.

 

From what we've seen, baring a very great difference in experience the stronger one almost always wins in a straight up fight between same sex opponents. Dexterity and tactics only really counts when the strength of both sides is roughly even. And Nynaeve winning against Moggy does make sense regardless since Moggy never had much experience in fighting fairly. She always struck from hiding once that advantage was lost she didn't have any significant advantage in experience over Nynaeve.

There seems to be a never-ending flood of these. Sheesh.

It really is quite baffling how pull keep pulling things out of their ass on this topic. The reasonable posters in the discussion BFG, Ares etc. seem to be finding a common ground. Then we continue to have these outliers that seem to be just fabricating what they want their ideal of Nyn to be along with how fighting works.

 

What's baffling is the desire to make the same exact points that were made pages ago and have been parsed and discussed already. I get people not agreeing with one side or the other. But if you have nothing new except fabrications to contribute, why bother at all?

 

Anyway, seems like its time for this thread to wind down anyway. Most of the relevant quoted are in here somewhere. There isn't much more to be said for either side.

[Suttree]

 

 

 

 

Don't see much point in this thread. Wasn't Nynaeve about as strong as Egwene and Elayne combined? Moreover she's more experienced at fighting channellers as well and she's even more dexterious in terms of the complexity of her weaves as I recall. There was I believe some comment about Egwene and Elayne being awed by Nynaeve's complex Healing weaves. Besides I think there is a direct corelation between strength and dexterity anyways. The stronger one is the easier it is to split the flows in different ways and channel several things at the same time.

 

From what we've seen, baring a very great difference in experience the stronger one almost always wins in a straight up fight between same sex opponents. Dexterity and tactics only really counts when the strength of both sides is roughly even. And Nynaeve winning against Moggy does make sense regardless since Moggy never had much experience in fighting fairly. She always struck from hiding once that advantage was lost she didn't have any significant advantage in experience over Nynaeve.

There seems to be a never-ending flood of these. Sheesh.

It really is quite baffling how pull keep pulling things out of their ass on this topic. The reasonable posters in the discussion BFG, Ares etc. seem to be finding a common ground. Then we continue to have these outliers that seem to be just fabricating what they want their ideal of Nyn to be along with how fighting works.

 

 

Yeah yeah Suttree, honestly I really don't give a damn what you think whenever a thread is in any way related to Egwene.

 

All I did was voice my opinion and one which I think is grounded in what we've seen in the books. And from what we have seen it's a simple fact that the first determining factor of the outcome in any battle of the OP atleast when it is two of the same sex is strength. Stronger people learn quicker, they can split their flows better and in more ways, they are far more intuitive when it comes to channelling etc. That's all there is to it. That is my opinion and it won't change at this point.

This is a who would win in a fight thread, which are basically the lowest of the low other than pairing threads. There is no point in arguing or finding common ground with your own coterie of posters since this is a completely hypothetical situation where everyone's opinion is equally valid, by which I mean not at all. So even if you got twenty people with a combined number of posts in the millions disagreeing with me it wouldn't bother me in the least.

 

Ermmm what are you on about? I referenced reasonable posters from both sides of the debate. How exactly is that "my coterie"?

 

Secondly you have been here more than long enough to know Egwene is not in my top 5 characters. I often defend her because she gets the most hate but I come down eqaully hard on Kael and Elan when they get out of hand singing her praises. It is rather funny though that instead of offering anyting to support your "I thinks" that have no basis in the text you have to resort to calling out some form of character bias. Opinion needs to be back by textual evidence which you most certainly have not done, or that opinion is not valid in the slightest. With that being the case it is pretty easy to see why you don't want any side to be right.

[Thrasymachus]

There is another feature, besides their relative strengths and dexterity in the Power, that swings the debate decidedly more towards Egwene than Nynaeve.  Nynaeve is dogged and straightforward.  Her duel with Talaan demonstrates not so much her lack of dexterity outside of Healing, but her lack of forethought in approaching a changing situation.  She can be very adaptable when put in stressful situations, but she's more often in those situations because she more often charges right into trouble without a back-up plan.  Egwene is much more of a planner and a schemer.  As mentioned above, if she had to go against Nynaeve, she'd never try to face her Power for Power, she'd throw Nynaeve off with a few feints that Nynaeve, given her temperment, would almost certainly fall for.  Egwene's cleverer than Nynaeve when it comes to everything except Healing, and she understands her opponent's motivations and reactions better than Nynaeve does.  That's a huge advantage.

[Kamin_Majere]

Well time to end thread.

 

Egwene vs Nynaeve..... Fight

 

 

Both Embrace source....

Start to form battle weaves to kill opponent

all flows sliced cleanly and cause them both to stumble not knowing what happend

 

Cads shields them both and spanks them for letting the people of dragonmount force them to fight like men.

Cads walks away mumbling about fool girls needing to still be on their mothers apron strings

 

 

victory = cads

 

[Emily_Sedai]

What's sad is you feel the need to come down 'hard' on people at all. I'd be curious about your motivation because I'm genuinely curious by nature, but really can't drum up the effort for it ATM. Why not let people express their different viewpoints without all the hostility/need to be rude?

 

To respond to your last post directed at me:

 

You make quite a few ugly assumptions about my thoughts, and that I ignore words that I choose to. Pretty amazing that you've put such a great profile of me together in a few posts, but whatever. Your assumptions are quite frankly, way off base. I just choose to have a different viewpoint. I read the exact same words that you did, and reached a different conclusion based on what I think the merits of the situation are. I drew my conclusions on my knowledge, experiences, ect.. Its too darn bad that you don't agree.

 

anytime you have to resort to lumping people together to attempt to discredit their input, you only show yourself to be a bully, and that's it. Go enjoy being hard and all that.

 

Question for 'your side' though: say things played out differently, and Nyn responded to Tal by making her think she was being set on fire (ie, Nyn uses a web to warm the area around her or something like that.) Tal freaks, and gets shielded. Would you attribute Nyn's victory to her skill with fire and state that will always turn the tide of a 1 v 1 fight?

 

[Emily_Sedai]

There is another feature, besides their relative strengths and dexterity in the Power, that swings the debate decidedly more towards Egwene than Nynaeve.  Nynaeve is dogged and straightforward.  Her duel with Talaan demonstrates not so much her lack of dexterity outside of Healing, but her lack of forethought in approaching a changing situation.  She can be very adaptable when put in stressful situations, but she's more often in those situations because she more often charges right into trouble without a back-up plan.  Egwene is much more of a planner and a schemer.  As mentioned above, if she had to go against Nynaeve, she'd never try to face her Power for Power, she'd throw Nynaeve off with a few feints that Nynaeve, given her temperment, would almost certainly fall for.  Egwene's cleverer than Nynaeve when it comes to everything except Healing, and she understands her opponent's motivations and reactions better than Nynaeve does.  That's a huge advantage.

Definetly agree with all of this, going back to what I said about Talaan... She won by out scheming Nyn. Outwit, outlast, outplay.

 

Now, the real question, who wins with Nyn vs Egween vs Talaan. Lol

[Suttree]

What's sad is you feel the need to come down 'hard' on people at all. I'd be curious about your motivation because I'm genuinely curious by nature, but really can't drum up the effort for it ATM. Why not let people express their different viewpoints without all the hostility/need to be rude?

 

To respond to your last post directed at me:

 

You make quite a few ugly assumptions about my thoughts, and that I ignore words that I choose to. Pretty amazing that you've put such a great profile of me together in a few posts, but whatever. Your assumptions are quite frankly, way off base. I just choose to have a different viewpoint. I read the exact same words that you did, and reached a different conclusion based on what I think the merits of the situation are. I drew my conclusions on my knowledge, experiences, ect.. Its too darn bad that you don't agree.

 

anytime you have to resort to lumping people together to attempt to discredit their input, you only show yourself to be a bully, and that's it. Go enjoy being hard and all that.

 

Question for 'your side' though: say things played out differently, and Nyn responded to Tal by making her think she was being set on fire (ie, Nyn uses a web to warm the area around her or something like that.) Tal freaks, and gets shielded. Would you attribute Nyn's victory to her skill with fire and state that will always turn the tide of a 1 v 1 fight?

1. Saying "your side" is a figure of speech that often gets used in debates here at DM, so please leave off with the dramatics and ridiculous accusations of bullying. You have already shown how quick you are to pull the "being mean" card with accusations aimed at others earlier in the thread. At this point it borders on a "cry wolf" situation. Having said that there are "outliers' in this discussion whose opinion has no basis in the text. For the record I wasn't grouping you in with that bunch.

 

2. Mr Ares and others have explained thefaults in your interpretation of that scene and you do yourself no favors stubborny holding to one that makes zero sense when it is explicitly written a certain way. For the record yes, you do have to ignore certain words to reach the conclusions you have.

 

3. Give over on the hypotheticals as we can only go off what happened when Talaan was shown to be more dexterous...and won.

 

Edit: To be clear, it was not my intention to bully or enjoy  "being hard and all that". I do apologize if my communication came off in that manner.

[Emily_Sedai]

For the record, I do not. Saying something over and over again does you no favors, to borrow one of your lines If you repeat an opinion often enough, it still does not become fact (about ignoring words.) Along the same line, you could have said that my opinion makes no sense TO YOU. You do not nor ever will decide what makes sense for me or for others. If you really want to do that, go join a priesthood and tell others how to think and interpret words. I believe my opinion makes sense, and again, I apologize if you don't like that. I've explained my position on the issue and what I feel was the main reason for Tal's victory, and others apparently feel similarly.

 

What about my question? Would Nyn's awesome fire skills have been the reason for her victory in my hypothetical situation?

 

 

[Suttree]

You do not nor ever will decide what makes sense for me or for others.  

Try tellingt to Mr Ares

 

As I said I'm done with the hyoptheticals. Have a good evening Emily, I hope you take my apology as being sincere.

 

Edit: Question for you though. Do you truly believe that people are incapable of having faulty intepretations when it comes to literature? Man I wish you would have told my professors that when I was getting my degree.

[fuzz1717]

What about my question? Would Nyn's awesome fire skills have been the reason for her victory in my hypothetical situation?

I mean, is that even relevant? We can make all the hypothetical situations we want, but it doesn't really mean anything. All we have to go off of is the text, which clearly shows that Nynaeve despite her attempts at being dextrous and clever was outwitted, outplayed, and ultimately defeated. 

 

 

 

Definetly agree with all of this, going back to what I said about Talaan... She won by out scheming Nyn. Outwit, outlast, outplay.

So i'm a little unclear as to your argument in general. Are you saying that Nynaeve would win in a duel? I'm too lazy to read through 18 pages of posts to find your original stance, but it seems from the last few pages that you are a staunch defender of Nynaeve at least with regards to her dexterity and skill, however, here you claim that Nynaeve lost because she was outwitted. Shouldn't intelligence and creativity be a part of this consideration also? As Thrasymachus said, it may not matter if Nynaeve is so much stronger or even if she is as dextrous as Egwene (she doesn't seem to me to be as dextrous) when Egwene would come up with a clever plan of attack and slip through Nynaeve's defenses and shield her. 

[BFG]

Kamin_Majere

Well time to end thread.

 

 

 

Egwene vs Nynaeve..... Fight

 

 

 

 

 

Both Embrace source....

 

Start to form battle weaves to kill opponent

 

all flows sliced cleanly and cause them both to stumble not knowing what happend

 

 

 

Cads shields them both and spanks them for letting the people of dragonmount force them to fight like men.

 

Cads walks away mumbling about fool girls needing to still be on their mothers apron strings

 

 

 

victory = cads

 

 

I prefer Mother Guenna dunks their heads in a barrel of cold water and doesn't charge them anything :)

[Suttree]

Well time to end thread.

 

Egwene vs Nynaeve..... Fight

 

 

Both Embrace source....

Start to form battle weaves to kill opponent

all flows sliced cleanly and cause them both to stumble not knowing what happend

 

Cads shields them both and spanks them for letting the people of dragonmount force them to fight like men.

Cads walks away mumbling about fool girls needing to still be on their mothers apron strings

 

 

victory = cads

 

Nice work Kamin...

[Vardar]

Did anyone point of the simple fact that Eggy thinks to herself that she couldn't beat Moggy linked with Romanda and Leiane yet she acknowledged that Ny could solo? I mean, pretty straightforward answer right there. Eggy herself thinks she couldn't do it. (it may have been refuted already, although I'm not sure how) meaning if there was a battle, in her mind she would already be at a disadvantage. 

[Vardar]

Oh and real question here: 

 

What is the difference between "mastering" a weave and "copying" it?

 

I mean, when it comes to healing, I can see the difference. Maybe even something like creating a gateway or cullendiar, (faster with less power) but offensive weaves? What's the difference between a Fireball and a Master fireball? I mean, we know what a "Mastered" shield can do. You can shield stronger people, although it says nothing about cutting them off. 

[Kamin_Majere]

 

I prefer Mother Guenna dunks their heads in a barrel of cold water and doesn't charge them anything :)

 

I didn't even think about the Cads and Mother Guenna tag team....

 

I bow to your wisdom on this topic

 

 

 

 

Thanks Suttree