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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
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Dagon Thyne

Correct me if I'm wrong....

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My friend and I were discussing WOT the other day, and he said that he did not understand how the DO revives the forsaken. I told him that the DO exists outside of the pattern of space and time, and as such, has the ability to reach into the future, and pull their reborn selves out of time and bring them to the present, and that is why they become new people when they are revived.

 

Am I wrong or right on this?

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One of his names is the Lord of the Grave or similar, he can essentially snatch the souls of the dead, and no regarding the new bodies, those are ones which have been basically kidnapped from the borderlands on Raids, and had their original souls ripped out by the Dark One and the soul of a Chosen places inside.

 

Think thats the general gist of it anyway.

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He can grab their souls between the moment of killing and the actual moment of death, and give them a new body. However, if they are hit by balefire, they moment of death comes before the moment of dying, so he can't grab their souls. That's the gist of it, anyway.

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Morden is the closest.

Rj stated that the DO had a window of opportunity after a person had died to retrieve the soul. Using balefire would mean that it would render it impossible to grab the soul, unless a very weak amount was used. RJ stated that he didn't want to go into too much detail as it may come up in another book.

Edited by Matthew79

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The Dark One do not pull future reborn self out of time and bring folks back with that. The Dark One have some dominion over death and can snatch the soul of someone who have died, not from the future but just the soul as it comes out of the dead body and for a while after and can then put that into a new body and thus bring said person back to life. Also the Dark One can not make new bodies but he can rip the soul out of one body and place another soul in, and presto he have a living breathing Forsaken up and walking again.

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Does anyone know if the DO can do this to people other than the Forsaken?, I've always assumed it had something to do with their oaths and the bond they have with the DO.

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He can grab their souls between the moment of killing and the actual moment of death, and give them a new body. However, if they are hit by balefire, they moment of death comes before the moment of dying, so he can't grab their souls. That's the gist of it, anyway.

 

Actually RJ said a while back that if a strong enough beam of balefire is used, it burns back farther, and takes more time, and the DO could save them, but that no one is currently powerful enough to produce a beam that powerful.

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Morden is the closest.

Rj stated that the DO had a window of opportunity after a person had died to retrieve the soul. Using balefire would mean that it would render it impossible to grab the soul, unless a very weak amount was used. RJ stated that he didn't want to go into too much detail as it may come up in another book.

 

I thought it took a strong amount of balefire for the DO to save someone. That the DO could only save them if he did it before the backburn ended, and a weak amount only burnt a small amount of time.

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Does anyone know if the DO can do this to people other than the Forsaken?, I've always assumed it had something to do with their oaths and the bond they have with the DO.

 

I do not think it is known, he have offered to bring people back to life who are not Forsaken if I do not remember wrong but never been seen in the books actually doing it.

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He can grab their souls between the moment of killing and the actual moment of death, and give them a new body. However, if they are hit by balefire, they moment of death comes before the moment of dying, so he can't grab their souls. That's the gist of it, anyway.

 

Actually RJ said a while back that if a strong enough beam of balefire is used, it burns back farther, and takes more time, and the DO could save them, but that no one is currently powerful enough to produce a beam that powerful.

 

Got a quote? Because I'm fairly certain that the stronger the balefire the more likely they are to remain dead.

 

The way he stated it made it sound like the DO needed to be aware of their death within a very short time of it happening, and because balefire kills them in the past that window is used up without the DO knowing he needs to catch them, causing them to slip through.

 

Also I do think they need to be darkfriends, at the very least, for him to bring them back as the DO has no direct dominion over anyone not sworn to him (it was flat out stated that Shadar Harin (sp?) wouldn't be able to pull that no channeling trick without anyone but a darkfriend).

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He can grab their souls between the moment of killing and the actual moment of death, and give them a new body. However, if they are hit by balefire, they moment of death comes before the moment of dying, so he can't grab their souls. That's the gist of it, anyway.

 

Actually RJ said a while back that if a strong enough beam of balefire is used, it burns back farther, and takes more time, and the DO could save them, but that no one is currently powerful enough to produce a beam that powerful.

 

if a more powerful beam would let DO re-engage his ability, Rand's balefiring of Greadel's castle, would have been enough, but I doubt that. I think it is only the weakest of balefires that only kill moments before the action and thus the soul is still floaating up above the body and DO can grab it before it starts to move toward the light

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He can grab their souls between the moment of killing and the actual moment of death, and give them a new body. However, if they are hit by balefire, they moment of death comes before the moment of dying, so he can't grab their souls. That's the gist of it, anyway.

 

Actually RJ said a while back that if a strong enough beam of balefire is used, it burns back farther, and takes more time, and the DO could save them, but that no one is currently powerful enough to produce a beam that powerful.

The soul doesn't have to be secured immediately - that is, the Dark One doesn't have to be ready to snatch the soul at the instant of death - but the longer that passes after the death, the less chance that the Dark One will be able to secure the soul. Someone who has been killed with balefire in actuality died before the apparent time of his or her death, and thus the window of opportunity for the Dark One to secure that soul for transmigration is gone before the Dark One can know that the soul must be secured unless the amount of balefire used is very small. Remember that the more balefire is used, the further back the target's thread is burned out of the pattern.

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He can grab their souls between the moment of killing and the actual moment of death, and give them a new body. However, if they are hit by balefire, they moment of death comes before the moment of dying, so he can't grab their souls. That's the gist of it, anyway.

 

Actually RJ said a while back that if a strong enough beam of balefire is used, it burns back farther, and takes more time, and the DO could save them, but that no one is currently powerful enough to produce a beam that powerful.

 

He said nothing of the sort, you have it backwards. It is a very small amount of balefire that leaves the window open.

 

edit: I see Mr Ares posted the quote above.

Edited by Suttree

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Morden is the closest.

Rj stated that the DO had a window of opportunity after a person had died to retrieve the soul. Using balefire would mean that it would render it impossible to grab the soul, unless a very weak amount was used. RJ stated that he didn't want to go into too much detail as it may come up in another book.

It is also interesting to note that the DO can hold a soul in stasis for quite a while once "caught" so that a new body can be found or he can hold it for later use, though we haven't seen it held yet for a long time. I'm wondering if we see a revival of all the other forsaken not Balefired in the past. We know that there were many killed prior to and after the raid on SG once the top 13 were caught. Knowing the hesitation to use Balefire late in the war I wonder if we might see some of these baddies, or if it is just ridiculously too late. Obviously 13 spent thousands of years physically in stasis, I wonder if the old Forsaken Souls are able to come into play. Maybe this is what the change was that came over Taim. We've noticed it enough to debate whether he was Ishy's son, or had been 13x13'd. Maybe the DO grew tired of the gross incompetence of all his Chosen and revived someone else giving them a chance. Taim seems to have done more than most others put together.

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Morden is the closest.

Rj stated that the DO had a window of opportunity after a person had died to retrieve the soul. Using balefire would mean that it would render it impossible to grab the soul, unless a very weak amount was used. RJ stated that he didn't want to go into too much detail as it may come up in another book.

It is also interesting to note that the DO can hold a soul in stasis for quite a while once "caught" so that a new body can be found or he can hold it for later use, though we haven't seen it held yet for a long time. I'm wondering if we see a revival of all the other forsaken not Balefired in the past. We know that there were many killed prior to and after the raid on SG once the top 13 were caught. Knowing the hesitation to use Balefire late in the war I wonder if we might see some of these baddies, or if it is just ridiculously too late. Obviously 13 spent thousands of years physically in stasis, I wonder if the old Forsaken Souls are able to come into play. Maybe this is what the change was that came over Taim. We've noticed it enough to debate whether he was Ishy's son, or had been 13x13'd. Maybe the DO grew tired of the gross incompetence of all his Chosen and revived someone else giving them a chance. Taim seems to have done more than most others put together.

nah at the time I don't think that the DO was catching souls, he had many chosen so it didn't matter. Also I think it would be a bit late in the books to do something like that

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Does anyone know if the DO can do this to people other than the Forsaken?, I've always assumed it had something to do with their oaths and the bond they have with the DO.

 

I imagine he could, but why would he?

 

He won't even necessarily do it for one of the FS if they aren't doing a good enough job.

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