[Mik's Warp] - Demandred is.....*click to find out*

[FarShainMael]

@Mik: Merci beaucoup, mon brave! C'est rien

 

I have a degree in Googleology....... I simply searched the web for 'demandred amel' and up it came. Among a few others which weren't much help.

 

(I did like the comment aboout James Blunt, btw )

 

@makaveli422: I agree, I'm not 100% convinced that Brandon had it right, either.

[Mik]

@Mik: Merci beaucoup, mon brave! C'est rien

 

I have a degree in Googleology....... I simply searched the web for 'demandred amel' and up it came. Among a few others which weren't much help.

I did too...but I didn't notice that link then. Doh.

 

 

Edit: (didn't want to double post)

I just remembered that bit where Demandred asks the Great Lord if he has done well...and everyone is wondering what he's talking about.

But I recalled there's a bit of prophecy right after it..... and usually -usually- the prophecy we get to read about fits very well with what's happening in the books (I'm not talking about Tarmon Gai'don related prophesies, but the prophesies that show us what path Rand needs to walk and what happens around him)

What if most of the answer to Demandreds question is right there.... ?

 

It fits if you think this theory is correct (bolded parts);

 

Demandred knelt in the Pit of Doom, and for once he did not care that Shaidar Haran watched his trembling with that eyeless, impassive gaze.

“Have I not done well, Great Lord?” The Great Lord’s laughter filled Demandred’s head.

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

The unstained tower breaks and bends knee to the forgotten sign.

The seas rage, and stormclouds gather unseen.

Beyond the horizon, hidden fires swell, and serpents nestle in the bosom.

What was exalted is cast down; what was cast down is raised up.

Order burns to clear his path.

 

 

—The Prophecies of the Dragon

translation by Jeorad Manyard

Governor of the Province of Andor

for the High King, Artur Paendrag Tanreall

 

 

 

Sidenote:

What I did find were these three Tweets on September 26th by Felix / Dida/ TinkerPride;

https://twitter.com/...901979235246080

"I tilt towards Demandred, being a de facto King of a recreated Balasun. King of Tarabon; King of Ogiers in Shadow Coast Mountains. @Terez27"

 

https://twitter.com/...857332119072769

"Who is most likely not Demandred's alter ego? Zaida din Parede Blackwing's "husband" Amel. | #WoT #AMoL"

 

https://twitter.com/...856947207778304

"Who is Demandred alter ego? One good guess, is the new King of Tarabon! Not the King of Murandy. | #WoT #AMoL"

 

Those were just three of 65 (sixty-five!!) WoT related Tweets from him just that day!

And one of them was a gem like this one:

https://twitter.com/...823338535055360

"Is Laras' spoon, a 'Rod of Dominion'? | @Terez27 @Theoryland @BrandSanderson"

I had to laugh so hard, I'm going to have to follow this guy!

@Suttree; EPIC!

[Darksmoon]

Wow, this is a great theory Mik! Well thought out and summed up.

[Suttree]

Sidenote:

What I did find were these three Tweets on September 26th by Felix / Dida/ TinkerPride;

https://twitter.com/...901979235246080

"I tilt towards Demandred, being a de facto King of a recreated Balasun. King of Tarabon; King of Ogiers in Shadow Coast Mountains. @Terez27"

 

https://twitter.com/...857332119072769

"Who is most likely not Demandred's alter ego? Zaida din Parede Blackwing's "husband" Amel. | #WoT #AMoL"

 

https://twitter.com/...856947207778304

"Who is Demandred alter ego? One good guess, is the new King of Tarabon! Not the King of Murandy. | #WoT #AMoL"

 

Those were just three of 65 (sixty-five!!) WoT related Tweets from him just that day!

And one of them was a gem like this one:

https://twitter.com/...823338535055360

"Is Laras' spoon, a 'Rod of Dominion'? | @Terez27 @Theoryland @BrandSanderson"

I had to laugh so hard, I'm going to have to follow this guy!

@Suttree; EPIC!

 

Yeah, it's pretty rad popping over to Felix's twitter every now and again. Funny thing is regardless of how crazy he comes off, that dude is so thorough that every now and then he will unearth a tidbit you have never caught before. It will be totally unrelated to whatever theory he is trying to prove of course but it can still create your own light bulb moments with something you have been mulling over forever. If you are willing to sift through all the chaff, occasionally it will lead to something brilliant. He doesn't come around anymore because Luckers is a big bully apparently.

[mwayneknight]

I kinda skimmed this but didnt see anything what im about to say in this, i really like this theory, makes lots of sense.

 

Im on my re-read and on COT, and I noticed something else. In the chapter A Mark, Alvairan is in tremalking and is just returning, and she is in the part of the library where no one visits, and in a part of that two of the librarians are there and she makes a small remark about how no one is ever down there. These librarians are the sea folk, it would be very interesting if Dem did have total control and could also find an easy way into the tower using these sea folk aes sedia.

 

Just thought that would be interesting

[makaveli422]

I kinda skimmed this but didnt see anything what im about to say in this, i really like this theory, makes lots of sense.

 

Im on my re-read and on COT, and I noticed something else. In the chapter A Mark, Alvairan is in tremalking and is just returning, and she is in the part of the library where no one visits, and in a part of that two of the librarians are there and she makes a small remark about how no one is ever down there. These librarians are the sea folk, it would be very interesting if Dem did have total control and could also find an easy way into the tower using these sea folk aes sedia.

 

Just thought that would be interesting

 

Not only that but Dem and Messana are allies of a sort. So maybe Alvairan was furthering not only Messana's plots but also Dem's too. I've always wondered what she was up to on Tremalking. I used to think that maybe she helped the Amayar die but that doesn't fit because they were convinced that their prophecy was fulfilled. And were busy killing themselves without any help I think. So her being there to help further Demandred's plans make sense to me now. The question still remains though of what plans she was helping to fruition.

[Bastor]

Bloody genius!

 

Of course a good general would push by both land and sea!

 

And what better sea warriors than the sea folk themselves?

 

I think he's got it!

 

Currently the North is under attack by Aiel dark channellers and all kinds of nasties - good but it will take more to actually progress in this war. The Borderlands are ready to hold long and hold hard the forces of the dark. Sure Caemlyn also got hit very hard and lost but it is just one town. What better way to hurt your enemy than squash them between two different fronts? Imagine the squabbles - War to the south we need help//War to the North WE need help.

 

Genius!

 

You and RJ are bloody genius!

[morkhon]

Great theory. There seem to be two main arguments against it:

 

1. Mat 'saw' Amel in LoC. - This seems to be a matter of opinion. To me it's pretty obvious that he did not see Amel, or the Wavemistress...but just their parasols amidst the Sea Folk delegation.

2. Brandon stated he's seen people figure it out online. - Well, maybe this theory has been presented in some place few of us have seen, but Brandon happened to stumble upon. But the chances are people around these parts have heard every possible Dem theory and if no one here has heard this before..doubtful Brandon has viewed one we haven't. So...I'd say this is the biggest negative against the theory.

 

 

For what it's worth I really hope this theory turns out true. It's way more interesting than Roedran or Timolan. It pretty much answers all of my questions as to who Demandred could be. For years I was convinced Dem was Taim, and RJ changed his mind. Now I'm thinking it was just a 'gotcha' moment of making the obvious choice not be the real one at all. With him being Amel he enters the story at roughly the same time as Mazrim. But in a much more subtle and secretive way. That would have been an absolutely brilliant move by RJ.

 

Well done.

[Mik]

Yeah, it's pretty rad popping over to Felix's twitter every now and again. Funny thing is regardless of how crazy he comes off, that dude is so thorough that every now and then he will unearth a tidbit you have never caught before. It will be totally unrelated to whatever theory he is trying to prove of course but it can still create your own light bulb moments with something you have been mulling over forever. If you are willing to sift through all the chaff, occasionally it will lead to something brilliant. He doesn't come around anymore because Luckers is a big bully apparently.

Yeah. Hehe. He has a great eye for detail, but he goes way overboard on the meaning he attaches to the tidbits he connects, I think. He also builds complete theories around those details on non-book related material. But most of the times, I just liked to read his thoughts anyway because of that 'eye for detail' bit mostly. I admire the dedication and effort he puts into trying to make sens of his thoughts for the rest of the world. He makes me chuckle and shake my head, but in a good way.

I just never knew he used twitter and -again- his dedication to his idea's and the number / content of his Tweets just made me laugh and shake my head (in that good way) again.

 

I think we can all agree on Luckers. He is a big, bad bully (with an Axe); he set Barid Bel Medar loose on us all. That alone is proof enough. ;P

 

 

I kinda skimmed this but didnt see anything what im about to say in this,...

 

Im on my re-read and on COT, and I noticed something else. In the chapter A Mark, Alvairan is in tremalking and is just returning, and she is in the part of the library where no one visits, and in a part of that two of the librarians are there and she makes a small remark about how no one is ever down there. These librarians are the sea folk, it would be very interesting if Dem did have total control and could also find an easy way into the tower using these sea folk aes sedia.

 

Just thought that would be interesting

Funny you should mention that actually. Based on that same chapter - before TOM came out-, I thought that, next to Danelle, there was a decent chance that one of those Sea Folk librarians Alviarin meets (Zemaille and Aiden) could have been Mesaana's cover. Now that we know Mesaana was hidden as Danelle, I guess that chapter deserves a good re-read. I recall Alviarin was very frustrated about being used as nothing more then a messenger in relation to Tremalking and about having to report to other -non channeling- Friends of the Dark like if they were Aes Sedai/ Chosen... or something like that. Wouldn't it be a hoot, if the one she's thinking about there is actually Demandred!?

And given how those Sea Folk Sisters seemed 'off' somehow -even though they are in one of the Depositories- might be related to Demandred actually, instead of being the hding place for Mesaana like I thought.

When I got some time, I'm taking another look at that chapter. Good point.

 

 

Not only that but Dem and Messana are allies of a sort. So maybe Alvairan was furthering not only Messana's plots but also Dem's too. I've always wondered what she was up to on Tremalking. I used to think that maybe she helped the Amayar die but that doesn't fit because they were convinced that their prophecy was fulfilled. And were busy killing themselves without any help I think. So her being there to help further Demandred's plans make sense to me now. The question still remains though of what plans she was helping to fruition.

I think Alviarin was frustrated by the fact that Mesaana uses her as nothing more then a messenger. She feels degraded, because she's so high up the food chain of the Black Ajah, but has to deliver messages from Mesaana to (what she thinks) are non channeling Darkfriends. Maybe, most likely even if it's a plan between two Chosen, she wasn't part of the plan at all regardless of what that plan was (it's one of her big frustrations to be kept in the dark about so much); she delivered mesages from Mesaana to whomever she was meeting at Tremalking and maybe she took some messages back.

 

Now that I think of it, Alviarin mentiones three factors in that same scene; Tremalking, the (non-channeling..hehehe) darkfriend and the Cleansing..almost in the same breath!

Alviarin might just be mentioning a meeting with a Darkfriend that 'thought he was her equal or higher' and 'feeling that huge Power surge on Tremalking' (the cleansing), so that we know that Demandred -if he was on Tremalking wich makes sense if you believe this theory- he was able to sense Rand channeling as well.

 

 

Bloody genius!

 

Of course a good general would push by both land and sea!

 

And what better sea warriors than the sea folk themselves?

 

I think he's got it!

 

Currently the North is under attack by Aiel dark channellers and all kinds of nasties - good but it will take more to actually progress in this war. The Borderlands are ready to hold long and hold hard the forces of the dark. Sure Caemlyn also got hit very hard and lost but it is just one town. What better way to hurt your enemy than squash them between two different fronts? Imagine the squabbles - War to the south we need help//War to the North WE need help.

Yeah. I think it would be a great read if cities like Tear, Bandar Eban & Ebou Dar would be surprised with Sea Folk attacking them from their own ports. I love the smell of burning ships in the morning!

RAFO, I guess! *can't wait to find out!*

 

 

...There seem to be two main arguments against it:

 

1. Mat 'saw' Amel in LoC. - This seems to be a matter of opinion. To me it's pretty obvious that he did not see Amel, or the Wavemistress...but just their parasols amidst the Sea Folk delegation.

2. Brandon stated he's seen people figure it out online. - Well, maybe this theory has been presented in some place few of us have seen, but Brandon happened to stumble upon. But the chances are people around these parts have heard every possible Dem theory and if no one here has heard this before..doubtful Brandon has viewed one we haven't. So...I'd say this is the biggest negative against the theory.

I think I got point 1 covered pretty well, some pages back. I'm confident there.

That second point was covered by the link FarShainMael brought up and it fit's well with how Brandon described it; as a guess / lucky shot. Not as a fully fleshed out theory like has been around for other characters then Amel.

I agree it's not as strong as I think the rest has been dealt with and answered, but taking the whole of it into acount, I think it's enough.

 

 

Wow, this is a great theory Mik! Well thought out and summed up.

I really like this theory, makes lots of sense.

Genius!

 

You and RJ are bloody genius!

Great theory...

.../ /...

For what it's worth I really hope this theory turns out true. It's way more interesting than Roedran or Timolan. It pretty much answers all of my questions as to who Demandred could be. For years I was convinced Dem was Taim, and RJ changed his mind. Now I'm thinking it was just a 'gotcha' moment of making the obvious choice not be the real one at all. With him being Amel he enters the story at roughly the same time as Mazrim. But in a much more subtle and secretive way. That would have been an absolutely brilliant move by RJ.

 

Well done.

Haha. Thanks guys!

*tips cowl of inky black cloak that stays unnaturally still*

Mik

[FarShainMael]

And for your next trick.. tell us about those red sails (ToM1)!

[Treebeard]

And for your next trick.. tell us about those red sails (ToM1)!

nuts i searched the whole thread for that comment hoping agienst hope when i came to the last page that I was to post this gem , well someone has posted it but nut that it was´t me . ( i know i have an enormous demand for gratification from others). Wow when you thought that no sensible and well bildt theory was ever to emerge on the topic Demandred , and you ( mike) deliver this, it´s pure geniality . and if this is theory is true ( witch i am almost certain of) then RJ has done a great job indeed . p.s love the French thing

p.p.s your pactinece ( Mike) should be rewarded as you dug al these sources from oblivion and put them together.

[FarShainMael]

And for your next trick.. tell us about those red sails (ToM1)!

nuts i searched the whole thread for that comment hoping agienst hope when i came to the last page that I was to post this gem , well someone has posted it but nut that it was´t me . ( i know i have an enormous demand for gratification from others).

 

Sorry about that, Treeberad - but it's good to know we both had the same thought! There's a saying, 'great minds think alike'

 

Wow when you thought that no sensible and well bildt theory was ever to emerge on the topic Demandred , and you ( mike) deliver this, it´s pure geniality . and if this is theory is true ( witch i am almost certain of) then RJ has done a great job indeed . p.s love the French thing

p.p.s your pactinece ( Mike) should be rewarded as you dug al these sources from oblivion and put them together.

 

I second that!! Pure genius indeed!

[Sightblinder'sMinder]

Good show. Good show, indeed.

 

I always suspected the Sea People would play a larger role in the series than is readily apparent, and if they are Demandred's army, that would explain that.

 

The evidence you've presented is pretty solid, I'd have to say. I especially like that little bit about Graendal "trading" her knowledge to find out what Demandred was up to. Brilliant.

[Jak o' the Shadows]

I really like the theory. I agree with people who said the Sea Folk have always been sort of annoying and useless. To me this would give a reason to their screen time and weight and actually make them interesting. So I'm actually hoping for it!

 

I also like the idea that Dem is not JUST with the Sea Folk, I mean he can be doing more than just 1 plot...so some of the 'he was wearing lace' quotes and such, might just mean he was somewhere else, saw the fashion and dressed accordingly to the meetings. I also think this could explain BS's 'he's doing cool things' line.

 

I also agree with OP that the parasails does NOT = screen time for the character. The character is never seen, that may be splitting hairs...but that is an Aes Sedai answer for sure. I think 'counter proof' based on that evidence is invalid.

 

 

I like your theory :)

[Asmodeanisdemandread]

@mik you have a point about the forsaken attitude towards humans. I concede and retract my previous statement. BTW I had forgotten about the male SF at the darkfriend social but that wouldn't be Dem that would just be a (maybe) future proxy. Correct?

I still cling to this theory like a life raft in the middle of the ocean(get my SF reference? Lol) although mainly I just want it to be someone only mentioned in passing

[Miroslav Georgiev]

I love this theory, it really makes sense! For me the proof that Demandred is with the Sea Folk is more circumstantial, though:

 

- 1: The fact that he's a general, preparing his army. All other major forces in Randland are already accounted for: the Aiel, the Seanchan, the Black Tower, the White Tower, the Whitecloaks, the western nations. OK, maybe the situation in Murandy is still unclear, but I don't think they have the potential to be a military power. The Sea Folk does, with immense fleet and channelers unrestricted by Oaths. Also, since their involvement with Elayne and the other Aes Sedai, they now have some very dangerous skills, besides calling up strong winds.Also, I think it unlikely a Shara army would pop out of nowhere in the last book of the series.

 

- 2. The fact that he was always close to the action, but never really in its middle. This excludes any remote part of the world (although the Sea Folk islands may be considered remote as well).

 

- 3. There is indeed something fishy in the whole Sea Folk election process.

 

For me there's only one other possible location Dem. could be, only one other force he could be preparing - the Ogier. But this seems even more ridiculous to me than a Shara army.

[WMBunt]

Not saying that it makes the theory correct or incorrect, but the Sea Folk have been far from useless in the series. They've played some pretty significant roles in the series and allowing things to progress the way they have. Not every single race is going to be a weapon for one side or the other throughout the course of the struggle to and at TG. But everyone will undoubtedly be a tool for use. They have definitely been a very useful tool to Rand. It remains to be seen if they will (as a race) be a tool for the Dark One.

[Carnacarn]

this theory has changed me from solidly in the murandy camp to roedran is a puppet only of the forsaken, probably demandred as a big ol' herring that mat was supposed to loose upon Rand, so Rand goes to take Roedran out when he wasn't a threat, allowing the Lord of Chaos to fully rule. That would fit in with the Band of the Red Hand starting to shadow the Saliday army in LoC, heading towards Murandy. The Shadow caused the split in the Tower, sending the Blue's/allies to Salidar thus another DO ploy being set up.

[Hyronimus]

Nice theory! Thanks for pointing out the possiblities left with the sea folk hope we see some of this come through in MOL.

 

Got me thinking how like the Aiel the seafolk are.

 

two societies still scared by the breaking. Isloationist, completly suspicious of ousiders. Living in a strange and hostil environment that has defined their customs with each other. both have created a place in their societies for their channellers, which they keep hidden from the AS.

 

Mist importatly they have a seperate saviour; the carrmore the caracarn and prophesies to go with it.

 

parrallels that enforce the theory me thinks, or perhapes Rand could have goen to treemalking not the waste in the shadow rising...

[muddasssir]

Well MIK I reaally wish that it comes true, but if it does you really killed it fpr me. I have always tried to stay away from who is dem as i wanted to read ROAFO, but off the cuff I cannot think of anything to refute it. It will be really interesting if it comes true. My gut feeling is it won't. But still a very nice theory.