A trickle of power

[nanaddar]

I was reading through the books again and I got to thinking about Asmodean and his trickle of power after the battle at Carhein.

 

Presumably, he channeled at Rand to heal him. There is no proof of this though. There is only what we get from Rand's POV. It would have been a perfect time to strike out at Rand. Whether Asmodean was acting in collusion with Lanfear or under her coercion, it may have been the time he was waiting for. Asmodean had hours with Rand to mess him up. The first thing Rand notices when he wakes up is how tired Asmodean looks.

 

What did Asmodean do to Rand? Coercion perhaps? I think that it is very soon after this encounter that Rand begins to hear distinct voices in his head.

 

When the the four forsaken are meeting with each other at the beginning of book 5 Lanfear has a plan to "Draw him back.". We know she wanted Lews Therin as her own. Had she come up with a plan to bring Lews back and fully in Rand and the whole thing got sidetracked because Moiraine killed her unexpectedly?

 

I am just rambling really, but in my brief search I didn't see any similar topic on the board.

[rand4747]

hes weak, healing will take him a long time and will tire him alot, hes probably not very skilled with healing as it is. But being resticted wont harm his skill, as long as its possible at his strength he can do it.

 

But he was no longer in favour with the dark so he would have done everything to help Rand win because the alternative would have been worse than death, would have rather died trying to help Rand.

[nanaddar]

I am just saying that wouldn't it be interesting if some of Rand's troubles and/or attitudes were shaped by what Asmodean did to him while he was unconscious. Even Rand said that he hopes that all Asmodean did to him was try to help heal him.

 

RJ could have easily written that into the series and we would never suspect that those troubles were caused by him.

[FanoLan]

That would definitely put a new twist on things, but doesn't seem likely. Would be funny if Asmo had actually achieved so much for the DO's plan from beyond the grave, so to speak.

 

From what the readers know of channeling at the time, Asmo's actions most resembled what Moiraine accomplished for the TR folks during the escape from Emond's Field. Washing away the fatigue with the OP. Since the scene in question arose between two male channelers, it's probably a more direct flow of energy from Asmo into Rand. The weave would probably resemble Healing or Delving weaves, but we do not see it precisely described IIRC.

[bigdoug1971]

Asmodean was too much of a coward to do anything to Rand anyway in his weakened state. He couldn't travel or skim to get away. And good thing for him he didn't do anything bad to Rand considering Moiraine knew all along who he was.

[rand4747]

suspected I think, not knew.

[YourNewDragonAndGod]

Also It wouldnt matter if he tried to switch sides by attacking Rand. I seem to remember that Rand broke Asmodeans ties to the DO

[rand4747]

asmodean needed Rand to protect him, he was screwed if Rand did not win, he believed it to be a losing cause but it was the only cause he had.

[Tyler Glembo]

2 things:

 

1), Asmodean repeatedly mentions that Rand is his "tuft of grass he is clinging to while dangling over a cliff" and that he will cling to it as long as possible. So Asmo, I think, quickly realized that throwing his lot in with Rand whole-heartedly was his only option.

 

2) Why does Asmo use skimming to reach Rhuidean in the first place? Makes no sense. Why didn't he just travel there when Rand was distracted by Couladin? Instead, Asmo uses the much slower method of skimming for absolutely no reason and that allows Rand to catch back up. Weird.

[BFG]

For the girls - travelling requires a knowledge of the place that you're travelling from, when Verin was getting caught up in Mats Tav web she kept getting disrupted and had to start again. Also when the SAS are heading to TV they skim back to Salidar and gateway from there.

 

If it's the same for boys than Asmo wouldn't have known the amphitheatre well enough to create a gate.

 

(although there may be something in needing to know the destination for skimming? So how would Asmo know Rhuidean well enough to skim there?)

[thisguy]

Here's a question. Lanfear and Moiraine go through the doorway. Moiraine's connection to Lan is severed. Why does Lanfear's shield on Asmodean maintain itself?

[BFG]

Here's a question. Lanfear and Moiraine go through the doorway. Moiraine's connection to Lan is severed. Why does Lanfear's shield on Asmodean maintain itself?

 

Presumably because she tied it off, once tied it's seperate from her. Moiraines is an open connection to Lan, thus when the doorway melted it was destroyed.

[thisguy]

Here's a question. Lanfear and Moiraine go through the doorway. Moiraine's connection to Lan is severed. Why does Lanfear's shield on Asmodean maintain itself?

 

Presumably because she tied it off, once tied it's seperate from her. Moiraines is an open connection to Lan, thus when the doorway melted it was destroyed.

 

So, a tied off weave can outlive the weaver? Fair enough. Thanks, man.

[Knivy]

The wards on Callandor lasted thousands of years, so yes, tied off weaves outlive the weaver.

[thisguy]

The wards on Callandor lasted thousands of years, so yes, tied off weaves outlive the weaver.

 

Good point!

[BFG]

The wards on Callandor lasted thousands of years, so yes, tied off weaves outlive the weaver.

 

Good point!

 

Thanks Knivy, mine was really just a guess :)

[Knivy]

Of course, It could just be a Ter'angreal whose purpose was to maintain the ward, similar to what I believe sustained the ward around Rhuiden (I have no proof or hints about it, but its what i like to think).

[ShenAnCalhar]

Re: Asmodean's skimming: even assuming Asmodean didn't know his current location well enough to Travel to outside of Rhuidean, isn't it safe to assume that all the Forsaken know the short hop/long hop trick that Rand introduces in TGS? I'm guessing it's just that RJ didn't quite have Travelling totally fleshed out earlier in the series.

[BFG]

Re: Asmodean's skimming: even assuming Asmodean didn't know his current location well enough to Travel to outside of Rhuidean, isn't it safe to assume that all the Forsaken know the short hop/long hop trick that Rand introduces in TGS? I'm guessing it's just that RJ didn't quite have Travelling totally fleshed out earlier in the series.

 

Good call, I guess what works for the girls would by nature be different for the boys, since their methods are different. Oops.

[Whizbang]

If you want to try to reason out why Asmo skimmed, rather than just lay it at RJ's feet as a change/evolution in channeling (which it probably was), you could reason that Asmo was trying to hide, at least until he got the access key. He knew he wasn't a match for Rand. Taking the time, and the extra power, to quickly weave a gateway to a few feet away and then weave another gateway to where he really wanted to go would be a huge risk that Rand would sense it. Look at what happened (and here I will say it has been a while since I read this book and so may be misremembering it some). Rand DID sense it, and DID chase Asmo down. Asmo waited until there was chaos after Rand was declared He Who Comes With The Dawn, and brought the rains and there was a minor battle, THEN he skimmed away as quickly as he could. Maybe he should have woven a couple dozen gateways to misdirect Rand and got a better lead, but Asmo was just not on the same level as many of the other Forsaken. He was merely a musician who felt passed over for greatness, and so he went to the DO for immortality. Although he did govern an area during the War of Power and harvested people for trollocs and various other Forsaken, he didn't really seem to be actively DOING anything during that time. He is a weakling and cannot think tactically. So, he just opened up a Skimming gateway and hoped Rand wouldn't notice.

 

It is kind of unfortunate that Asmo didn't Travel directly, because then Rand would have learned the weave sooner.

[herid]

In order to Travel Asmo had to know the place he was leaving from (Alcair Dal) very well. He didn't. He arrived at Alcair Dal together with Rand just minutes earlier so he had to skim.

[Whizbang]

In order to Travel Asmo had to know the place he was leaving from (Alcair Dal) very well. He didn't. He arrived at Alcair Dal together with Rand just minutes earlier so he had to skim.

 

Right, exept Rand later introduces a nice trick to get around that inconvenience. It is possible to weave a gateway to somewhere close, as in within a few hundred feet, without knowing the area very well. But the action of weaving a gateway to a nearby place actually lets the channeler know that place well enough to then weave a gateway to anywhere else. So, it is a three step process. 1: Weave a gateway to the next hill. 2: Let that gateway collapse 3: Weave a gateway to where you really want to go.

 

The question is: Why didn't Asmo do this (assuming this trick was common knowledge in the AoL)? The answer I gave was because Asmo didn't want to risk Rand sensing the weaving, so he just spun out a skimming gateway and hoped Rand wouldn't notice it in the confusion.

[herid]

In order to Travel Asmo had to know the place he was leaving from (Alcair Dal) very well. He didn't. He arrived at Alcair Dal together with Rand just minutes earlier so he had to skim.

 

Right, exept Rand later introduces a nice trick to get around that inconvenience. It is possible to weave a gateway to somewhere close, as in within a few hundred feet, without knowing the area very well. But the action of weaving a gateway to a nearby place actually lets the channeler know that place well enough to then weave a gateway to anywhere else. So, it is a three step process. 1: Weave a gateway to the next hill. 2: Let that gateway collapse 3: Weave a gateway to where you really want to go.

 

The question is: Why didn't Asmo do this (assuming this trick was common knowledge in the AoL)? The answer I gave was because Asmo didn't want to risk Rand sensing the weaving, so he just spun out a skimming gateway and hoped Rand wouldn't notice it in the confusion.

that's a reasonable in-book explanation. But I suspect that RJ just hadn't invented that particular detail about Traveling when he was writing TSR. It's only mentioned 3 books later in aCOS.

[Amandera]

Skimming and Travelling should require roughly the same amount of OP. We've been told only the opening of a gateway has to do with strength in One Power in the books (I think it's in Rand's POV when he Skims with Aiel to Caemlyn). Well, a gateway is a gateway whether used for Travelling or Skimming. Plus, no character has ever said "I'm not strong enough for Travelling but I can Skim".

 

I didn't like Rand's trick at all, it renders Skimming pretty much obsolete unless you need immediate escape.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I didn't like Rand's trick at all, it renders Skimming pretty much obsolete unless you need immediate escape.

 

What do you mean by this? That you wanted to see more skimming because it was cool with the platforms and stuff?

 

Because the idea is precisely that, to render skimming obsolete, for a more efficient Travelling. It was a good move.