Tam = badass sword guy?

[mike hunt's here]

anyone think Tam is badass with the sword? Lan level?

 

I believe it is commonly thought he killed laman.

[YourNewDragonAndGod]

I'm sorry? I didn't know it was commonly thought he killed Laman. Please explain why you think this happened. But yes he is a badass sword guy. You can't have reached blade master level and not be a bad ass sword guy.

[Durinax]

I think the most telling is that he (a commoner) rose to Captain of the Campanions (or whatever the Kings army is)

[mike hunt's here]

really? no one knew this?

 

1. laman had his jewel encrusted sword given to the aiel. that sword was not meant to be used in battle as it was full of jewels. so he had to have a "regular" heron sword. And as a king - he would have a power wrought one...one would think.

2. tam had a heron sword - practice is to get it from the previous owner.

3. in his fever dream, he said "laman needed to be killed." or something like that. I think he expressed regret too.

4. it is never mentioned that an aiel killed laman.

5. someone needed to give the sword to the aiel.

6. tam was 2nd in command of the illian companions. why did he leave? well killing the king is a sure bet.

 

im pretty sure this is in another thread, i cant be this smart by myself.

[YourNewDragonAndGod]

Hmm that makes sense. I never made the connection with #3. I always thought he was just recounting why the Aiel war happened as it lead up to the reveal that he had found Rand on the slopes of Dragonmount.

[Durinax]

tam didn't say any of that. Not to mention how could Tam find Rand (which was about the time that Laman died, since the war ended around that day) if he killed laman

[mike hunt's here]

tam didn't say any of that. Not to mention how could Tam find Rand (which was about the time that Laman died, since the war ended around that day) if he killed laman

 

um were you there? i heard it myself!!!

 

haha

 

Im pretty sure he does say "paid a price too high for it," and he did say "he needed to be killed" more or less. when i go back home to my mothers house i will look it up after she cooks me dinner.

 

now i have to think about it - why did the aiel go to tar valon when laman should have been in carhien? or was he visiting?

[Durinax]

tam didn't say any of that. Not to mention how could Tam find Rand (which was about the time that Laman died, since the war ended around that day) if he killed laman

 

um were you there? i heard it myself!!!

 

haha

 

Im pretty sure he does say "paid a price too high for it," and he did say "he needed to be killed" more or less. when i go back home to my mothers house i will look it up after she cooks me dinner.

 

now i have to think about it - why did the aiel go to tar valon when laman should have been in carhien? or was he visiting?

Laman would have fled away from the Aiel, or it could have been a state visit when the Aiel heard of the tree being cut.

I just looked through the section where rand is bumbling through the forest and he talks about it, the only emotion tam shows is anger about Lamans pride

[joeron bigelow]

dude just copied theoryland.

 

http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4369

[Clouded]

I've questioned this before, and I believe it was yoniy0 who pointed out that Laman died on the battlefield outside the Shining walls. For him to get from there to the slopes of dragonmount might be a stretch.

 

Also, why would the 2nd captain of Illian kill the King of Cairhien? Wouldn't there be witnesses?

[FarShainMael]

dude just copied theoryland.

 

http://www.theorylan...read.php?t=4369

 

Mike did say 'I'm pretty sure this is in another thread, i cant be this smart by myself.'

 

I had a look at that chapter:

 

Tam was pretty angry about Laman and the war with the Aiel..

 

"They came over the Dragonwall like a flood," Tam said suddenly, in a strong, angry voice, "and washed the land with blood. How many died for Laman's sin?"

 

...

 

"They called them savages,"Tam said urgently. "The fools said they could be swept aside like rubbish. How many battles lost, how many cities burned, before they faced the truth? Before the nations stood together against them? ... All the way to the Shining Walls they burned and slew before they were turned back."

 

...

 

"They never make peace. Never. But they brought a sapling as a sign of peace. A hundred years it grew. A hundred years of peace with those who make no peace with strangers. Why did he cut it down? Why? Blood was the price for Avendoraldera. Blood the price for Laman's pride."

 

He clearly respected them, and regretted the lost opportunity, if 'regret' isn't too weak a word!

 

And he went up Dragonmount, to get away from the 'smell and sight of death'. So he was there defending the Shining Walls. Presumably Laman was there as well, as yoniy0 said, perhaps seeking help from the AS. Perhaps the death Tam was trying to get away from was Laman's.

 

So if Tam didn't say straight out that 'Laman needed killing' it was definitely in his thoughts. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he did it.

 

About the sword: Earlier in that chapter, when Tam gets out his heron-marked sword, and Rand asked him where he got it and how much it cost, Tam replies:

 

"I got it a long time ago... a long way from here. And I paid entirely too much; two coppers is two mch for one of these.. I was young then, and it seemed worth the price at the time."

 

I'll just bet it did!

[Darksmoon]

Tam is a man of honor. Also the King would be guarded and there would be plenty of witnesses. I don't see Tam doing this and getting away.

[Darksmoon]

Also Aviendha bundles Laman's jewel sword in blankets and carries it. It is mentioned that Aiel have traded it since Laman's death. So they are handling it to some extent.

[lolguy26]

i remember reading somewhere that tam killed a guy(the owner of blade) and i always thought that was the price he paid, someone's life

[elric]

seem like a a major steatch to me.

 

Heron swords are rare but NOT Uniqe.

as high ranked officer in a very reach country there was no reason why Tam wont get an Heron blade.

kings DONT participate in fighting as a front line soldeirs (usually- rand is an exeption , but remember the talk between Agy and the Wise after she become Amyralin -> even the Ayal chieftains DONT participate as warriors in war), do there was no reason Laman wont use his mighty posing sword.

Tam viewing about Laman and the Ayal are simply of a man who fought in hard loosing war and is sick of fighting. (think Vietnam vet view- it like saying this guy was vietnam he hated the president who sent him there -> he kill Kenedy).

[Pinzarn]

It is an interesting theory. A couple of the points really need to line up perfectly for it to occur, namely how/where was Tam alone with Laman in order to fight him. Here are the tough points to put together:

 

1. Tam and Laman dueled publicly. This would explain why Tam wasn't punished. Ok, this would have been public knowledge. Seeing how neither Lan nor Moraine mention anything about it, I doubt this occurred.

 

2. Tam was guarding Laman at some point and they fought. Others would have known that Tam was guarding him and Tam would have been arrested/executed. Also, why would you guard a King with one person.

3. Tam stumbled upon Laman without any guards. You have a nation of people hunting a king. That target would never be left alone.

 

The only plausible story is that Laman was seperated from his guards. Tam found him. They fought, and Tam won. Tam fled up Dragonmount to hide, and found Rand. Laman's death as blamed on the Aiel to Tam's luck.

 

The only reason that I think the theory holds some validity is that RJ was planning an outrigger novel detailing Tam's events during the Aiel war and how he came to Two Rivers with a wife and child. The couple of hints in the WoT series could have planted the seed, and all could have been revealed in the outrigger.

[Mulk]

I've wondered for quite some time just who it was that Tam killed that needed killing. I hope that gets revealed at some point. I lean against Laman personally for reasons I have a hard time describing, but I can't say it would surprise me if he did as I have a really hard time coming up with anyone else who was alive in that time period who would have needed killing.

[thisguy]

I'd like one good chapter with some Tam heroism and badassedness in AMOL.

[mike hunt's here]

seem like a a major steatch to me.

 

Heron swords are rare but NOT Uniqe.

as high ranked officer in a very reach country there was no reason why Tam wont get an Heron blade.

 

 

both statements are true, but remember - Tam's sword was both Heron marked and forged by the one power - which made it rare and unique. Not just a random tough guy sword. Not every officer gets to use a power wrought sword. Name me one current "non great general" with a sword like that?

 

Not guybon, not one eyed guy with berelain, not guy in borderlands with rodel, i ran out of people i dont know their names.

[elric]

actualy in Eye of the World Lan speicificly say that originally Heron blades where rare power forged wepon given to officerS in age of legend.

and that after that these bladeS was given a token of appriciation to top fighters.

 

btw during WoT i remember atleast 3 such swords

Tam /Laman both with heron on it. (officer blade)

Lan -> without Heron. (non officer blade)

 

and i think High Lord Toruk (sp?) had 1 as well but not sure

[Entreri]

The younger Tam was probably as good as Gawyn now.

 

This is how I would rank the blademasters:

 

Lan post Moraine would be #1: "most dangerous man" Avienhda has ever seen, "death", a "lion" according to her. With Moraine at his side, Lan prime was probably as good as Jearom prime.

Jearom

LTT

Two handed Rand without LTT memories/Valda

Galad/Ryne

Gawyn/Tam/Riatin/Bel'lal

Sleet

 

Mid-level blademasters: Hammer, Bryne, Iturlade, possibly the Seanchan Mat met in chp 11 of AmoL

Bottom tier blademasters: Turok

[Sharaman]

Tam killed "somebody who needed killing" in a duel as per TGS. Unlikely that Laman would have duelled him / or that he would have challenged Laman.

Laman was killed by the Aiel who took the sword as a trophy.

[Durinax]

I hope we see a moment with Tam using a sword....

[FarShainMael]

So do I!

 

As for a Tam / Laman confrontation.. I can see it happening, in fact.

 

"I killed a man who was {a blademaster}, did it in front of witnesses, but I've never forgiven myself for it. Though it needed doing."

 

As I said earlier, Tam had a lot of respect for the Aiel, and a lot of contempt for Laman and 'Laman's pride, Laman's sin'. I can see him trying to persuade Laman to cut the killing short and give himself up to the Aiel to bring back peace, and Laman attacking Tam, Tam defending himself. The witnesses, whoever they were (Laman's guards? Tam's Companions?), may have been at least partly on Tam's side, so he was able to get away.

 

Yep, you're right. It's a stretch!

 

Additional: I just found this in the EncWoT entry on Tamlin al'Thor:

 

"King Mattin Stepaneos presents Tam al'Thor of the Illianer Companions with a One Power-crafted heron-mark sword."

 

This is apparently from a book signing, but the link is broken.

 

(Edited to correct quote]

[Stubby]

Very interesting name Mike Hunt's Here. How very juvenile and insulting to women.