Spoilers! Chapter One - Eastwards the Winds Blew is up on Tor

[MarkDiLillo]

Starting to wonder if all of the Forsaken will turn from the Shadow by the end. Leaving only Moridin who gets smashed up into Rand's soul.

[Luckers]

I have to say, the entire chapter felt really anti-climactic. Talmanes surviving against all odds robs the prologue of its emotional punch, Rand's already figured out Elayne's pregnant, Elayne's reaction to Caemlyn's destruction was oddly subdued, the first Egwene-Egeanin meeting was a non-event as well... There's hardly any emotion or suspense. If this is what the rest of the book is going to be like, I don't think I'll like it much.

 

I read it as an attempt to minimize the damage from ToM. Just like Egwene is suddenly all reasonable and such. In ToM both were incredibly single-minded. I think this is fixing that up.

 

Yeah, it feels like Brandon's trying to rehabilitate Egwene's image, hence we get lots of retcon and ridiculous-sounding lines like:

 

"I may be Amyrlin, Nynaeve, but I am still Aes Sedai. Servant of all."

 

Next, she'll be kissing babies and mentioning how she sent help to the Borderlands off-screen in ToM. :p

 

+1

[fionwe1987]

Is anyone else surprised by the timing of this? Its not even October and we have Chapter 1, part of chapter 11 and the entire Prologue. Are we to expect one PoV from each major character?

[David Selig]

BTW, is it just me who cringed every time Egwene used "the Queen" in her thoughts in regards to Elayne? At least make it "the Queen of Andor" is she's going to be so formal in her thoughts...

 

And why was Elayne kissing Egwene's ring and calling her "Mother" with only Gawyn and Birgitte present? IIRC they decided to be less formal when not in public back in LoC and unlike with Nynaeve, this policy wasn't changed by Egwene...

[wotfan30]

rofl, he didnt put any effort into writing this book? give me a break. can we just make a single shit talk thread so we dont have to scroll through people demeaning every chapter?

 

This.

[hjustinpace]

Apparently Rand doesn't give a that he's a dad. Interesting.

 

Winner. I really thought Rand would be more excited and stunned by this. Maybe constantly thinking back to it. It just wasn't enough.

 

Maybe it's awkward because he's going to come out of the closet as a monogamist and admit he doesn't really care about Elayne and Aviendha.

[Luckers]

Is anyone else surprised by the timing of this? Its not even October and we have Chapter 1, part of chapter 11 and the entire Prologue. Are we to expect one PoV from each major character?

 

I was just discussing this with Terez. I wondered, back when the date was first announced whether they chose the delay because of the increasing negative position in order to generate a positive feel when they upped the date later on--its what they did with tGS.

[unlabled]

This chapter...It shows events going one direction but it feels to me that events are about to take a hard turn for the worse in the next few chapters.

 

Looks to me that the big meeting for the next day is going to go down in flames.

 

IMO, Elayne will resist Rand' insistence on abandoning Andor, which will create some pretty big problems. I imagine not only with Elayne but perhaps Egwene as well will be against Rand's advice and will probably harden their stance against Rand.

 

Add in the Roedran wildcard (Demandred?) and 'let chaos reign'.

 

Things don't look too bad right now, Rand even thinks this will help convince Elayne to agree with him but this book is supposed to be about the light failing until almost all hope is lost. A successful FoM meetup would go against that methinks.

[KakitaOCU]

To the Rand's dad thing. It came off to me like he's stunned, but knows he can't really deal with it until this war is done. Not exactly the best response in the world, but an understandable one.

 

Luckers, considering the positive posts with no details seem to be in the variety of "Yay, can't wait for the rest of it." No, I didn't feel a need to call them on it. For the most part it's been "Yay, love this part." which gives some backing and idea of where you're coming from instead of just sound like a zealous fan or anti-fan as it were. In all honesty, even your comment in the other thread about taking the chapter as BS defending himself adds clarity to where you're coming from. I might disagree or debate that point, but I at least see the stance you're coming from, which I couldn't with your initial statement.

 

It might be "entirely justifiable" to just state "It's applaing" with no backing or explanation, doesn't change that it makes you come off as someone far younger or less intelligent than you very clearly are.

[Neophyte]

Just to be clear - betraying the Shadow and "turning back to the Light" aren't necessarily one and and the same. It is hard for me to imagine Demandred really "seeing the Light," becoming a nice guy and all that. He's a selfish, arrogant bastard with a list of atrocities behind him that stretches to the horizon and beyond.

 

I just think that he might not like the world being ground to dust, since he wants to rule it, and if he can get an acknowledgement from Rand that he can rationalize into a sense of having beaten Lews Therin, then he might be willing to stab the Dark One in the back. He'd sure love to stab Moridin in the back. But at a minimum, he might just let Rand go, knowing that he's going to die. This might be why he is so insistent on being the one to face Rand - so he can take this chance.

 

A very interesting ending to me would be one in which the Light wins, but Demandred is left in the world with great resources at his disposal and his current disposition. I actually doubt that will happen - I have to wonder what would happen to any soul attached to the Dark One if the Dark One is shut outside the Pattern again - but it would be interesting.

[MarkDiLillo]

To the Rand's dad thing. It came off to me like he's stunned, but knows he can't really deal with it until this war is done. Not exactly the best response in the world, but an understandable one.

 

Luckers, considering the positive posts with no details seem to be in the variety of "Yay, can't wait for the rest of it." No, I didn't feel a need to call them on it. For the most part it's been "Yay, love this part." which gives some backing and idea of where you're coming from instead of just sound like a zealous fan or anti-fan as it were. In all honesty, even your comment in the other thread about taking the chapter as BS defending himself adds clarity to where you're coming from. I might disagree or debate that point, but I at least see the stance you're coming from, which I couldn't with your initial statement.

 

It might be "entirely justifiable" to just state "It's applaing" with no backing or explanation, doesn't change that it makes you come off as someone far younger or less intelligent than you very clearly are.

 

stop polluting the thread with complaints about others peoples complaints. tyia

[MarkDiLillo]

Just to be clear - betraying the Shadow and "turning back to the Light" aren't necessarily one and and the same. It is hard for me to imagine Demandred really "seeing the Light," becoming a nice guy and all that. He's a selfish, arrogant bastard with a list of atrocities behind him that stretches to the horizon and beyond.

 

I just think that he might not like the world being ground to dust, since he wants to rule it, and if he can get an acknowledgement from Rand that he can rationalize into a sense of having beaten Lews Therin, then he might be willing to stab the Dark One in the back. He'd sure love to stab Moridin in the back. But at a minimum, he might just let Rand go, knowing that he's going to die. This might be why he is so insistent on being the one to face Rand - so he can take this chance.

 

A very interesting ending to me would be one in which the Light wins, but Demandred is left in the world with great resources at his disposal and his current disposition. I actually doubt that will happen - I have to wonder what would happen to any soul attached to the Dark One if the Dark One is shut outside the Pattern again - but it would be interesting.

 

+1 for most of that.

 

DO wont be shut out of the pattern again though. The solution is something more grand. Imagine something along the lines of "dark one is just all our negative emotion and turmoil in the world, if we all hold hands and sing together he will go away". Just way less lame than that.

[Neophyte]

DO wont be shut out of the pattern again though. The solution is something more grand. Imagine something along the lines of "dark one is just all our negative emotion and turmoil in the world, if we all hold hands and sing together he will go away". Just way less lame than that.

 

I disagree - I think that Herid Fel's prescription of a prison restored to it's original form is exactly what will end up happening, Rand's musings notwithstanding. But I see where you're coming from.

[KakitaOCU]

Mark, I commented on the chapter as well, and will happily discuss points with people when I am addressed. That said, I've said what I feel is needed on the subject, so there's no point in anything further regarding it.

 

Honestly, I still think Shai'tan is going to be gone by the end of this. I'm mostly still in the boat of Fain replacing him as the new DO, and it'll take who knows how long for him to grow in power to the point that he's indistinguishable from the current Dark One. I know some have issue with that, but I've always seen the Darkone as being just as much of a cycle of rebirth and replacement as anyone else.

 

I also wouldn't be at all surprised to see Demandred left standing (Or one of the others). RJ said not all ends would be tied up, and I could see Demandred betraying the shadow and saying "I'm done here." Leaving for some other part of the world to establish a new power base and live out his now mortal life.

[MarkDiLillo]

Nah, the DO is a literal God. Fain is just some corrupted weirdo tweaker. There really cannot be a comparison of the two other than they have polar opposite evils. There is no way that Fain will take over from him.

 

And ya I agree with you on the cycle of rebirth/replacement. He is a force of nature that is spun out by the pattern when the time is appropriate. Rand is the opposite force spun out to counter balance.

[Luckers]

To the Rand's dad thing. It came off to me like he's stunned, but knows he can't really deal with it until this war is done. Not exactly the best response in the world, but an understandable one.

 

Luckers, considering the positive posts with no details seem to be in the variety of "Yay, can't wait for the rest of it." No, I didn't feel a need to call them on it. For the most part it's been "Yay, love this part." which gives some backing and idea of where you're coming from instead of just sound like a zealous fan or anti-fan as it were. In all honesty, even your comment in the other thread about taking the chapter as BS defending himself adds clarity to where you're coming from. I might disagree or debate that point, but I at least see the stance you're coming from, which I couldn't with your initial statement.

 

It might be "entirely justifiable" to just state "It's applaing" with no backing or explanation, doesn't change that it makes you come off as someone far younger or less intelligent than you very clearly are.

 

The element about Brandon trying to 'fix' TofM is a minor point in my dislike, hence I was willing to speak it with little thought or preperation. But I will NOT dress down a man I respect greatly with but a moments glance simply to assuage your confusion. That sort of post requires detailed thought.

 

As for your point about it making me appear young and stupid; I disagree, my dear. But, I suspect you do not wish to hear that, so let us leave the point.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Just to be clear - betraying the Shadow and "turning back to the Light" aren't necessarily one and and the same. It is hard for me to imagine Demandred really "seeing the Light," becoming a nice guy and all that. He's a selfish, arrogant bastard with a list of atrocities behind him that stretches to the horizon and beyond.

 

I just think that he might not like the world being ground to dust, since he wants to rule it, and if he can get an acknowledgement from Rand that he can rationalize into a sense of having beaten Lews Therin, then he might be willing to stab the Dark One in the back. He'd sure love to stab Moridin in the back. But at a minimum, he might just let Rand go, knowing that he's going to die. This might be why he is so insistent on being the one to face Rand - so he can take this chance.

 

 

My thoughts exactly. Demandred is a perceptive bastard (as I have explained in other threads, I won't go on) I think that he has seen what is actually happening. He doesn't really want everything to end. He just wants to come first, above Lews Therin.

 

There is a whole heap of evidence through the books that Demandred will betray the Shadow. Both Graendal and Mesaana think that he wouldn't be there if not for LTT, in WH with the Cleansing, Demandred wishes Graendal had never brought up the fact that the DO might trust the men less after the Cleansing, that he wanted it to be a secret a while longer.

 

Now we have Rand feeling sorry for him, and hinting at a "making it right" moment. I can even see Rand letting Demandred kill him, if he figures out he must die before defeating the DO, as per the Finns.

 

Anyway, it shall be interesting.

[Neophyte]

Honestly, I still think Shai'tan is going to be gone by the end of this. I'm mostly still in the boat of Fain replacing him as the new DO, and it'll take who knows how long for him to grow in power to the point that he's indistinguishable from the current Dark One. I know some have issue with that, but I've always seen the Darkone as being just as much of a cycle of rebirth and replacement as anyone else.

 

Even though "he" predates and exists outside the Pattern? I would lay serious money on the proposition that Padan Fain cannot become the new Dark One.

 

I also wouldn't be at all surprised to see Demandred left standing (Or one of the others). RJ said not all ends would be tied up, and I could see Demandred betraying the shadow and saying "I'm done here." Leaving for some other part of the world to establish a new power base and live out his now mortal life.

 

If this does happen, there had better be a reasonable explanation of how he severs his connection to the Dark One.

[herid]

This chapter...It shows events going one direction but it feels to me that events are about to take a hard turn for the worse in the next few chapters.

 

Looks to me that the big meeting for the next day is going to go down in flames.

 

IMO, Elayne will resist Rand' insistence on abandoning Andor, which will create some pretty big problems. I imagine not only with Elayne but perhaps Egwene as well will be against Rand's advice and will probably harden their stance against Rand.

 

Add in the Roedran wildcard (Demandred?) and 'let chaos reign'.

 

Things don't look too bad right now, Rand even thinks this will help convince Elayne to agree with him but this book is supposed to be about the light failing until almost all hope is lost. A successful FoM meetup would go against that methinks.

+1. I've always suspected that the big meet at FOM won't actually happen, at least not the next day and will be completely disrupted despite Rand's best efforts. Roedran/Demandred certainly won't show up in person in the middle of FOM. That would be suicidal.

[Barid Bel Medar]

This chapter...It shows events going one direction but it feels to me that events are about to take a hard turn for the worse in the next few chapters.

 

Looks to me that the big meeting for the next day is going to go down in flames.

 

IMO, Elayne will resist Rand' insistence on abandoning Andor, which will create some pretty big problems. I imagine not only with Elayne but perhaps Egwene as well will be against Rand's advice and will probably harden their stance against Rand.

 

Add in the Roedran wildcard (Demandred?) and 'let chaos reign'.

 

Things don't look too bad right now, Rand even thinks this will help convince Elayne to agree with him but this book is supposed to be about the light failing until almost all hope is lost. A successful FoM meetup would go against that methinks.

+1. I've always suspected that the big meet at FOM won't actually happen, at least not the next day and will be completely disrupted despite Rand's best efforts. Roedran/Demandred certainly won't show up in person in the middle of FOM. That would be suicidal.

 

Ha, I can see Roedred turning up, ready to cause havoc among the forces left at FoM. As he walks through the Gateway, he sees Rand and everyone standing there waiting for him.

 

"Hello, Demandred."

 

"Eh? What! You are supposed to be in Caemlyn!! Eh... I give up. I spent 14 books planning this... I'm out. Kill the Great Lord, I don't care. I'm out."

Demandred opens a Gateway to somewhere random and is never seen again.

[Neophyte]

Additional (though very minor) quibble -

 

Rand's PoV:

 

Rand walked toward Sebban Balwer, whose services Perrin had loaned to Rand. Which was fine with Balwer, who was prone to gravitate toward those holding the greatest power.

 

Did the PoV slip into omniscience? Or does Rand know Balwer that well? And later:

 

Balwer was the best at what he did, and was confident in his own abilities. Still, it did no harm to be reminded of the fact by one who employed him, particularly if his employer was none other than the Dragon Reborn.

 

How does Rand know Balwer is "the best"? Didn't he just meet him less than 24 hours previously? How long have these people been at the Field of Merrilor?

[MarkDiLillo]

lol ya...within 24 hours the guy apparently organized an entire intel network for Rand.

[KakitaOCU]

Mark and Neophyte, has RJ out of the books said the DO is an unaging force there since the dawn of creation? (I'm not as thouroughly versed in his interviews and such as I'd like to be, if he said that then my thoughts on this topic will change dramatically.).

 

I know in the books they call the DO that, but they think lots of things are that are wrong, or misinterpreted, or just glitched. Fain really does come off as a DO in training or an immature DO type. He can raise the dead, but not with the original mind, he can corrupt, and do so in a way that makes the person become more self serving. It's not a perfect theory and I won't be disapointed if I find I'm wrong, but I really think the evidence is there to suggest it as a possibility.

 

As for Demandred's cords, I agree there'd have to be a good reason, But Rand could cut them in battle, maybe even in an attempt to redeam him. Or if my theory about this DO dying or Rand's idea about ending the DO come to pass then that could cut those ties just the same. For that matter, flawed as the thought it, Graendal gives some idea to escaping the DO without cutting the Chords. She was planning on fleeing via portal stone to a mirror world. We don't know if this would actually work, but it's there as a possibility.

[randsc]

I think people are being a little unfair about Rand's reaction to his coming fatherhood. I have been in that experience 4 times; it hits hard and is hard to process every time. The first most of all.

[herid]

Additional (though very minor) quibble -

 

Rand's PoV:

 

Rand walked toward Sebban Balwer, whose services Perrin had loaned to Rand. Which was fine with Balwer, who was prone to gravitate toward those holding the greatest power.

 

Did the PoV slip into omniscience? Or does Rand know Balwer that well? And later:

 

Balwer was the best at what he did, and was confident in his own abilities. Still, it did no harm to be reminded of the fact by one who employed him, particularly if his employer was none other than the Dragon Reborn.

 

How does Rand know Balwer is "the best"? Didn't he just meet him less than 24 hours previously? How long have these people been at the Field of Merrilor?

This REALLY annoyed me too. Rand only met Bawler a few hours ago. This scene makes it sound like he's known him for a long time.