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Spoilers! Chapter One - Eastwards the Winds Blew is up on Tor


Luckers

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I agree with Luckers on this one. That was appalling. Weird shifts of formal to informal speaking patterns. And a lot of it just felt like crossing i's and dotting t's.

 

The below was actually an epic run. Can't recall a better blow by blow commentary in some time here on DM. :biggrin:

 

“Rand?” Perrin asked, walking beside him with a hand on Mah’alleinir. “I’ve told you about all of this before, the siege of the Two Rivers, the fighting . . . Why ask after it again?”

 

“I asked about the events before, Perrin. I asked after what happened, but I did not ask after the people it happened to.” He looked at Perrin, making a globe of light for them to see by as they walked in the night. “I need to remember the people. Not doing so is a mistake I have made too often in the past.”

 

... well... that's insulting. I preferred it as a mistake.

Suffice to say... the Jedi will feel this one.

Is anyone else expecting Kert Wagoner to suddenly teleport?

This was... appalling.

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Anyone know who the hell Serenia Sedai is? Why is she opening Gateways to Caemlyn with the Kin? Was she one of the sisters at the Silver Swan? Someone from the AS camp who had a lot of sense?

 

And Neo: Rand couldn't have done it himself. Loial says that very bad things happened when four AS linked to try and destroy one during the Trolloc Wars. Apparently a circle of 13 is necessary.

 

Serenia appears to be a new character, a la Melten.

 

Re: Waygates - The four Aes Sedai mentioned by Loial may simply not have had enough power - we don't know that there is requirement for 13 people, just that 13 linked + sa'angreal is the greatest amount of power that Aes Sedai can generate under normal circumstances. But Rand with the Choedan Kal has far more power than 13 Aes Sedai with a normal sa'angreal.

 

And even if it did require linking (which is not at all certain) Rand has access to far more than 13 followers with the knowledge to link. 6 Asha'man and 7 Aes Sedai would probably be more effective than any circle of 13 Aes Sedai.

 

Again, even if he only did this a few times - for the cities with Waygates actually inside their walls - it would have been extraordinarily useful. Even if the Trollocs pop up all over the southlands, if they're outside of the fortified cities, the Shadow loses a huge advantage. A tiring but very useful 3 days would have been sufficient - he could have done it while he was hopping around back in the post-Cairhien-assasination-attempt period.

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Anyone know who the hell Serenia Sedai is? Why is she opening Gateways to Caemlyn with the Kin? Was she one of the sisters at the Silver Swan? Someone from the AS camp who had a lot of sense?

Wasn't Serenia an Amyrlin killed by the WCs?

 

Suttree is correct, there was an Amyrlin Seat with that name that was hanged by Whitcloaks about 700 years before present day.

 

Anyone named Serenia in this time is a new character. Why so many of them are added is beyond me, when literally hundreds of existing characters have disappeared completely for no reason.

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Anyone know who the hell Serenia Sedai is? Why is she opening Gateways to Caemlyn with the Kin? Was she one of the sisters at the Silver Swan? Someone from the AS camp who had a lot of sense?

Wasn't Serenia an Amyrlin killed by the WCs?

 

Suttree is correct, there was an Amyrlin Seat with that name that was hanged by Whitcloaks about 700 years before present day.

 

Anyone named Serenia in this time is a new character. Why so many of them are added is beyond me, when literally hundreds of existing characters have disappeared completely for no reason.

This really annoys me, brandon stop adding random characters! We already have so many, this late into the series their are hundreds of aes sedai he could have chosen to to say "made a gateway".

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Serenia appears to be a new character, a la Melten.

Oh great. We couldn't get one of the hundreds RJ already named?

[Re: Waygates - The four Aes Sedai mentioned by Loial may simply not have had enough power - we don't know that there is requirement for 13 people, just that 13 linked + sa'angreal is the greatest amount of power that Aes Sedai can generate under normal circumstances. But Rand with the Choedan Kal has far more power than 13 Aes Sedai with a normal sa'angreal.

Unlikely that its a power issue. Any four of todays AS when linked can do anything Rand can. Why, four kinswomen managed to make a gateways as large as his, and they were all too weak to be Accepted. Aes Sedai tended to be stronger in the Trolloc Wars.

And even if it did require linking (which is not at all certain) Rand has access to far more than 13 followers with the knowledge to link. 6 Asha'man and 7 Aes Sedai would probably be more effective than any circle of 13 Aes Sedai.

This, I agree with.

Again, even if he only did this a few times - for the cities with Waygates actually inside their walls - it would have been extraordinarily useful. Even if the Trollocs pop up all over the southlands, if they're outside of the fortified cities, the Shadow loses a huge advantage. A tiring but very useful 3 days would have been sufficient - he could have done it while he was hopping around back in the post-Cairhien-assasination-attempt period.

Yep.

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“That is Doniella Alievin’s copy of the Termendal translation of The Karaethon Cycle,” Egwene said. “Doniella made her own notes, and they have been the subject of nearly as much discussion among scholars as the Prophecies themselves. She was a Dreamer, you know. The only Amyrlin that we know of to have been one. Before me, anyway.”

“Yes,” Elayne said.

What is Elayne saying yes to? "Yes, you're the first Amyrlin to be a Dreamer since Doniella"...? Gee thanks Elayne. Wouldn't have known. Its not like the previous sentence happened.

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“That is Doniella Alievin’s copy of the Termendal translation of The Karaethon Cycle,” Egwene said. “Doniella made her own notes, and they have been the subject of nearly as much discussion among scholars as the Prophecies themselves. She was a Dreamer, you know. The only Amyrlin that we know of to have been one. Before me, anyway.”

“Yes,” Elayne said.

What is Elayne saying yes to? "Yes, you're the first Amyrlin to be a Dreamer since Doniella"...? Gee thanks Elayne. Wouldn't have known. Its not like the previous sentence happened.

 

:laugh:

 

Yeah, I am seeing a lot of that in aMoL. My favourite is Androl's PoV thinking about the 13x13. That it could turn a channeller to the shadow. Against their will.

 

 

Also, agree with your post a page back (being lazy, yes) there are a lot of problems, but definitely things worth celebrating.

 

I agree with Rand PoV, it was worrying post tGS, but the integration has been handled expertly so far, IMO. Exceeded my expectations of Rand PoV's.

 

Good to see Egwene back also - if it is a little jarring and obvious retcon, it needed to be done and I am happy.

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Unlikely that its a power issue. Any four of todays AS when linked can do anything Rand can. Why, four kinswomen managed to make a gateways as large as his, and they were all too weak to be Accepted. Aes Sedai tended to be stronger in the Trolloc Wars.

 

How can it be anything but a power issue? Neither linking nor the use of sa'angreal provide any other benefit than a boost of power - a single person is still melding the flows in either case. Thirteen Aes Sedai linked and using a sa'angreal gain no advantage other than having more power available. Linking provides no additional dexterity, and makes no new weaves available.

 

And are you claiming that four Aes Sedai linked can do anything Rand can do with the Choedan Kal? I did, you'll remember, specifically mention him using that. Are you sure that's what you meant to say?

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Good to see Egwene back also - if it is a little jarring and obvious retcon, it needed to be done and I am happy.

Me too. I was seriously worried Brandon would go the other way and continue writing Egwene the way he was. Fan noise seems to have reached him on this though.

 

Reading her PoV, one thing strikes me. The biggest flaw to Brandon's writing is that when characters start talking, we stop seeing their points of view. With Jordan, these would constantly intermingle, giving us a character's PoV while they were conversing. This added dept to those conversations, but more importantly, this was the way sarcasm or humor would often be injected into the story. I think one reason why Mat fails is that we don't have this constant interplay of thought and conversation. Its blocks of one followed by blocks of other.

 

With someone like Egwene, it simply makes her seem less intelligent. Usually, if she'd heard Elayne say "let the DO be freed", she'd have a lot of thoughts about it. Here, we have to infer it, and that's not exactly done in a good way, especially since we rarely get to read characters physical reactions, facial expressions, etc. either, when they talk.

 

Here's an example of what I mean. The bolded parts are my additions:

 

“Thank you very much for the advice,” Elayne said, “which I will ignore, as I ignored Birgitte when she said the same thing. Mother, what is it you wished to discuss?”

Egwene handed over the letter she had been working on.

Elayne scanned the top of the letter. “To Rand?” Elayne (she) asked.

“You have a different perspective on him than I. Tell me what you think of this letter. I might not send it to him. I haven’t decided yet.”

Elayne's face gave nothing away as she read the letter. She looked serene. As an Aes Sedai should. As a Queen should. How would she react to this? Egwene placed much trust on Elayne. The woman was in love with Rand, but Egwene trusted her to place the rationality of their arguments above her feelings. At least, she added to herself, I hope I can.

“The tone is . . . forceful,” Elayne noted. She did not seem surprised.

“He doesn’t seem to respond to anything else.” Egwene could well remember their arguments as they grew up in Emond's Field. Him saying the most infuriating things. Her trying to make sense. At least, that was the way of it most of the time.

They had thought they would marry, then, yet that hadn't stopped them from rubbing each other the wrong way every so often. Now... now we stand as leaders of the world. An ancient man in the mind of a boy, and a girl bearing a title almost as ancient. They couldn't walk away from each other in a huff this time.

After a moment of reading Elayne lowered the letter. “Perhaps we should simply let him do as he wishes.”

“Break the seals?” Egwene asked, startled. “Release the Dark One?”

“Why not?”, Elayne asked, as if asking why there should be no rain from clouds.

“Light, Elayne!, Egwene said, troubled. If her closest friends doubted her course, what chance did she have of convincing Rand? And Perrin too, as if one mule headed stubborn man weren't enough. All they needed was for Mat to appear, and the entire lot of them could talk sense till they were hoarse, and nothing would change.

“It has to happen, doesn’t it?” Elayne asked. “I mean, the Dark One’s going to escape. He’s practically free already.”

Egwene rubbed her temples, thinking. She chose her words carefully. Elayne's point was not without merit. Perhaps if she had she not had that dream before Rand came, she would have seen things differently too. But now... now she knew. This was not instinct. Not even just the Dream, which she hadn't even revealed to the Wise Ones. The Tower was a treasure trove of obscure knowledge, and on this issue, she had found plenty of useful nuggets. Time to see if they were worth anything.

“There is a difference between touching the world and being free. During the War of Power, the Dark One was never truly released into the world. The Bore let him touch it, but that was resealed before he could escape. If the Dark One had entered the world, the Wheel itself would have been broken. Here, I brought this to show you.”

 

Or something like that, at least. I'd rather Brandon spend time on things like this than on the exact tone of each character. Without something like this, what we get really reads like an unfleshed first draft. We're getting the bare skeleton of the story, with a lot of the flesh missing.

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How can it be anything but a power issue? Neither linking nor the use of sa'angreal provide any other benefit than a boost of power - a single person is still melding the flows in either case. Thirteen Aes Sedai linked and using a sa'angreal gain no advantage other than having more power available. Linking provides no additional dexterity, and makes no new weaves available.

It adds a great deal of precision, per RJ. We've also seen this on screen, for example, when Samitsu says that she can regulate her Healing weave as well as a full circle could. Same when Moridin is talks of how a circle led by a Windfinder using the Bowl could affect more than a continent (but nothing about a Windfinder with a sa'angreal). In the BwB, we're also told that certain circles, like 6 men and 6 women, were much better for some things than a circle of 72, even though the latter is much more powerful. With linking, in fact, you have a loss of the OP. The sum of linked women will be less than the total of their individual strengths. But the effective strength of the linked women will actually be greater than their individual sums. Not just because their weaves are melded together, but because there's added precision to the weaving. This is why four Kinswomen barely strong enough to be Accepted can link and form a Gateway as big as Rand's. Their combined strength almost certainly doesn't match his strength.

And are you claiming that four Aes Sedai linked can do anything Rand can do with the Choedan Kal? I did, you'll remember, specifically mention him using that. Are you sure that's what you meant to say?

Nope. That is not what I meant to say. I meant Rand unaided. Anyway, turns out it was nine Aes Sedai, with no mention whether a sa'angreal was present or not:

 

"A Waygate was destroyed once, less than five hundred years after the Breaking, according to Damelle, daughter of Ala daughter of

Soferra, because the Gate was near a sledding that had fallen to the Blight. There are two or three Gates lost in the Blight as it is. But she wrote that it was very difficult, and required thirteen Aes Sedai working together with a sa'angreal. Another attempt she wrote of, by only nine, during the Trolloc Wars, damaged the Gate in such a way that the Aes Sedai were pulled into-"

 

Seems they're strong enough to damage the gate, but the absence of the full circle is mucking things up.

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Did anyone else notice that Briggette carried a sword???

Earlier in the series wasn't it said that every time she used a sword it turned into a disaster?

 

Also if Briggette still has her memories from AoL wouldn't a meeting between her and Rand be pretty awesome

Also where is Moraine?

 

The Moiraine part makes it even more interesting, due to it seems like she will probably show up while Rand is addressing everyone; that gives me goosebumps.

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Good to see Egwene back also - if it is a little jarring and obvious retcon, it needed to be done and I am happy.

Me too. I was seriously worried Brandon would go the other way and continue writing Egwene the way he was. Fan noise seems to have reached him on this though.

 

Reading her PoV, one thing strikes me. The biggest flaw to Brandon's writing is that when characters start talking, we stop seeing their points of view. With Jordan, these would constantly intermingle, giving us a character's PoV while they were conversing. This added dept to those conversations, but more importantly, this was the way sarcasm or humor would often be injected into the story. I think one reason why Mat fails is that we don't have this constant interplay of thought and conversation. Its blocks of one followed by blocks of other.

 

With someone like Egwene, it simply makes her seem less intelligent. Usually, if she'd heard Elayne say "let the DO be freed", she'd have a lot of thoughts about it. Here, we have to infer it, and that's not exactly done in a good way, especially since we rarely get to read characters physical reactions, facial expressions, etc. either, when they talk.

 

Here's an example of what I mean. The bolded parts are my additions:

 

“Thank you very much for the advice,” Elayne said, “which I will ignore, as I ignored Birgitte when she said the same thing. Mother, what is it you wished to discuss?”

Egwene handed over the letter she had been working on.

Elayne scanned the top of the letter. “To Rand?” Elayne (she) asked.

“You have a different perspective on him than I. Tell me what you think of this letter. I might not send it to him. I haven’t decided yet.”

Elayne's face gave nothing away as she read the letter. She looked serene. As an Aes Sedai should. As a Queen should. How would she react to this? Egwene placed much trust on Elayne. The woman was in love with Rand, but Egwene trusted her to place the rationality of their arguments above her feelings. At least, she added to herself, I hope I can.

“The tone is . . . forceful,” Elayne noted. She did not seem surprised.

“He doesn’t seem to respond to anything else.” Egwene could well remember their arguments as they grew up in Emond's Field. Him saying the most infuriating things. Her trying to make sense. At least, that was the way of it most of the time.

They had thought they would marry, then, yet that hadn't stopped them from rubbing each other the wrong way every so often. Now... now we stand as leaders of the world. An ancient man in the mind of a boy, and a girl bearing a title almost as ancient. They couldn't walk away from each other in a huff this time.

After a moment of reading Elayne lowered the letter. “Perhaps we should simply let him do as he wishes.”

“Break the seals?” Egwene asked, startled. “Release the Dark One?”

“Why not?”, Elayne asked, as if asking why there should be no rain from clouds.

“Light, Elayne!, Egwene said, troubled. If her closest friends doubted her course, what chance did she have of convincing Rand? And Perrin too, as if one mule headed stubborn man weren't enough. All they needed was for Mat to appear, and the entire lot of them could talk sense till they were hoarse, and nothing would change.

“It has to happen, doesn’t it?” Elayne asked. “I mean, the Dark One’s going to escape. He’s practically free already.”

Egwene rubbed her temples, thinking. She chose her words carefully. Elayne's point was not without merit. Perhaps if she had she not had that dream before Rand came, she would have seen things differently too. But now... now she knew. This was not instinct. Not even just the Dream, which she hadn't even revealed to the Wise Ones. The Tower was a treasure trove of obscure knowledge, and on this issue, she had found plenty of useful nuggets. Time to see if they were worth anything.

“There is a difference between touching the world and being free. During the War of Power, the Dark One was never truly released into the world. The Bore let him touch it, but that was resealed before he could escape. If the Dark One had entered the world, the Wheel itself would have been broken. Here, I brought this to show you.”

 

Or something like that, at least. I'd rather Brandon spend time on things like this than on the exact tone of each character. Without something like this, what we get really reads like an unfleshed first draft. We're getting the bare skeleton of the story, with a lot of the flesh missing.

 

Best post I have read all day. Agree with everything.

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Well, at least Rand is a little more Rand and a little less Jesus. Things are finally happening, which is pretty exciting for a guy who's been reading WOT since '97. I'm definitely grateful that the series is getting finished according to Jordan's notes. That said...

 

Sanderson's style is still so jarring for me. I didn't know what to expect when I first picked up TGS, and he's definitely written some good scenes, but along the way there have been a boatload of Brandonachronisms. His best scene thus far for me is still Rand atop DM at the end of TGS( I'm assuming he wrote that, if not then disregard). Maybe it was Robert Jordan's grounding in history that made his world building so flawless; I don't know. The voice of the prose in the last two books just felt so juvenile, so often. I almost expect Rand to turn around and say something like "That's just how I roll, Perrin". Also, Jordan's action scenes were masterful; lean and punchy while still rich in detail and personality. Sanderson's read like video game choreography. I really can't believe that he's still determined to make a comedian out of Talmanes. I don't want to knock him too much, since he's only writing the same way he always has, as far as I can tell. I picked up Way of Kings to get a better feel for his style away from WOT, but couldn't make it through. He's definitely a workhorse, which is appreciated by those of us who've been waiting years and years, though I think a case could be made that there would have been advantages to acquiring an author who would've devoted themselves to WOT exclusively.

 

I want to be optimistic since I know that this is all we're ever going to get, but honestly I'd become anxious about the series long before BS showed up, beginning back when RJ said in all seriousness that, come hell or high water, there would only be one more book after KOD. Everyone knew that was absurd, and even now I feel a little irritated that The Last Battle (Tarmon Gaidon!!! The culmination of everything, the event that decades of story and tomes upon tomes of skirt shifting, nose twitching, glances askance, adjusted shawls, Perrin fretting and many characters doing nothing, NOTHING, JESUS MAN, DO SOMETHING) is only going to take place over the couse of one book. I guess I was expecting a little more meat on that particular bone. I have a feeling that when all is said and done, and I do my final reread of all of the books, there will be simply mountains of immaterial, useless digression. Not that some of that didn't make the books better; at times it did.

 

Maybe the bit of the ending that Jordan wrote will buoy the last book a bit.

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The Moiraine part makes it even more interesting, due to it seems like she will probably show up while Rand is addressing everyone; that gives me goosebumps.

 

Feel the same. Can't waìt for her to show up.

Ever since Cads and Sorilea made that agreement about Rand, I've always thought Moiraine should be the one to teach Rand tears. After all she is ... well, Moiraine :) The First one in Rand's list.

 

As for chapter 1... Birgitte with sword is like Perrin with sword. Or Rand with hammer. It's just not right and never will be.

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Reading her PoV, one thing strikes me. The biggest flaw to Brandon's writing is that when characters start talking, we stop seeing their points of view. With Jordan, these would constantly intermingle, giving us a character's PoV while they were conversing. This added dept to those conversations, but more importantly, this was the way sarcasm or humor would often be injected into the story. I think one reason why Mat fails is that we don't have this constant interplay of thought and conversation. Its blocks of one followed by blocks of other.

 

With someone like Egwene, it simply makes her seem less intelligent. Usually, if she'd heard Elayne say "let the DO be freed", she'd have a lot of thoughts about it. Here, we have to infer it, and that's not exactly done in a good way, especially since we rarely get to read characters physical reactions, facial expressions, etc. either, when they talk.

 

Here's an example of what I mean. The bolded parts are my additions:

 

Something that sounds more like it belongs in WoT

 

Or something like that, at least. I'd rather Brandon spend time on things like this than on the exact tone of each character. Without something like this, what we get really reads like an unfleshed first draft. We're getting the bare skeleton of the story, with a lot of the flesh missing.

 

can I give a +1 to this? It's an observation that I've noticed subconsciously but never voiced. I feel silly for having not done it in the past.

Opportunities abound when you mix inner monologue with dialogue. It's a huge portion of where the final three books drop the ball. Even if it were not pulled off like RJ did (which still impresses the hell out of me in certain spots on rereads), it would at least sound a lot more like a Wheel of Time book.

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I am one of those who thinks Laman's sword will end up with Gawyn. Also, a post I made on TL:

 

Wait for the Light

Regarding your "Wait for the light" post on TL. Lots of interesting stuff to digest but let me just ask about one thing.

You quote the TOM prophecy

 

In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning, and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come. Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

 

And then, shall the Lord of the Evening come. And He shall take our eyes, for our souls shall bow before Him, and He shall take our skin, for our flesh shall serve Him, and He shall take our lips, for only Him will we praise. And the Lord of the Evening shall face the Broken Champion, and shall spill his blood and bring us the Darkness so beautiful. Let the screams begin, O followers of the Shadow. Beg for your destruction!

 

In that post you suggest that tomorrow Rand goes to Shayol Ghul, his blood is spilled there and this brings the 3 days darkness. This is out of sequence with the above prophecy if we assume your other theory that the Broken Wolf is Rand (or have you changed your mind on that one?). According to the prophecy first the Broken Wolf dies, and then the DO faces the Broken Champion, spills his blood and brings the darkness.

 

You've hit on the main reason why I have gotten bogged down in my new Blood on the Rocks FAQ page: chronology. For this one, there are a few possible explanations, most of them involving interpreting names differently. I should probably address it on the Theoryland thread, though.

 

“I believe it.” Rand regarded his wine. Lews Therin had loved wine. A part of Rand—that distant part, the memories of a man he had been—was displeased by the vintage. Few wines in the current world could match the favored vintages of the Age of Legends. "Not the ones he had sampled, at least."

 

Did anyone else notice the addition of the line above?

 

Not the ones he had sampled, at least.

 

Apparently, Team Jordan/Sanderson listened to everyone complaining about the wine comment. I went back and checked and the excerpt that was released initially from chapter 1 was missing this line. It was added after the fact.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about that.

 

I'm happy it was fixed. Obviously I wish they'd had a better team to help them with things like this before they are released to the public. But oh well; it's all over now.

 

Anyone know who the hell Serenia Sedai is?

 

Shannan Lieb of tarvalon.net (and DragonCon/JordanCon; she is one of Jenn's staff, and incidentally the one I've had the most contact with at the cons because she runs all the book geek panels and trivia):

 

http://library.tarva...=Serinia_Edoras

 

I wish Brandon had kept her spelling; it fits better with WoT. (Aside from wishing he'd just used already-existing characters for these things.)

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I liked it aside from still-schizo Rand, but probably just because I want the book so bad. I think I am with Bong about avoiding the place for a while though. I seem to be very persuadable and the constant what should of happeneds that are around here are going to ruin it for me, so I think I will avoid the spoiler posts for now.

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Well, I both enjoyed reading the chapter for the plot, and winced many, many times at the writing. Some thoughts in no particular order:

 

There were several lines in ToM from which you could infer that Egwene was having her minions research and plan, so seeing the results of such did not come as a surprise.

 

The wind poetry used a lot of questionable--if not downright clumsy--verbs and adjectives, and there was enough alliteration that I started to notice it.

 

As others have pointed out, Rand knows too much about Balwer, to the point where the POV shifts to a 3rd person omniscient perspective a couple time.

 

Everyone important is awake except Min. She should have been reading or something.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about Nynaeve getting a shot at healing Talmanes. It will depend on how he's used later in the book.

 

The almost-meeting between Leilwin and Egwene was pointless after all the build up in the prologue.

 

I liked that we started to see the fallout from Caemlyn. I never got any sense of loss or tension from it, though, and it should have had a major impact on nearly every main character. Also, we should have see it Elayne's POV.

 

Where was Morgase?

 

I didn't catch the 'Nightcrawler' thing until others pointed it out, but I -did- find the new names to be a bit off-putting. RJ was an evil genius for creating character names and it makes some of the new additions painful.

 

-- dwn

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