[Regimental Book Discussion] EotW Mat vs TGH Mat

[dicetosser1]

Some of the things i think about the horn in regards to AMoL i cant put here cause of spoilers. I cant WAIT!! til oa certain someone.meets the heroes. Also i think they may interact with mat more this time.

[F Horn of Valere]

You could post it here using the spoiler button. :D

[demonspawn]

I'm only starting on TGH on me pre aMoL re-read and, correct me if I'm wrong here, but Mat is the only main character featuring all the way through these first two that doesn't get their own POV? Besides Lan...

 

To me that makes it a little too difficult to read mat as a character as there is no internal dialogue to understand where he is coming from. But he did really annoy me in TGH with his petulant treatment of Rand, even after he was trying to apologise and explain.

 

At this point, especially on my first read, I thought Mat was a bit of an arse to be honest.

[F Horn of Valere]

Amen! I understand his anger at Rand, but he carries it way too far.

[demonspawn]

Aye, his attitude, coupled with his tom-foolery and high jinks, make him out to be the kind of guy in the group that nobody really likes because they do nothing but cause trouble for others with none of the good natured side that should be there. And to me that is the problem with not getting a Mat POV in these first two books.

[BFG]

To some extent his treatment of Rand in tGH is even worse when considering that as he was getting worse in tEotW he had complete faith in Rand. Nonetheless, I maintain that he had enough plus points throughout the first two books to allow me to not completely write him off. When Rand, Loial and Hurin disappear in tGH his reaction makes me think that Mat is genuinely worried about Rand and not just for Hurin's disapearence making it harder for them to find the Horn/dagger, his reaction at the end of the book to going back for Eg...

[The Bard Babe]

Aw, am I the only one who always liked Mat? :( XD

 

Ah well, I love the way his character develops.

DOes he really not have any POV chappies in the first two books. o.O

[F Horn of Valere]

Not sure about the first, but for sure not in the second. I've read it with the impression that besides only intending for a trilogy, RJ never intended Mat to be a central main character, but rather an important side character. A minor main character like Elayne, rather than a major main character like Egwene.

[dicetosser1]

i dont know how to do the spoiler thing.

 

 

im VERY glad RJ changed his mind!

[F Horn of Valere]

Surround the spoiler with

[spoiler] [/spoiler]

or press the "Special BBCode" button and select "Spoiler" if you aren't comfortable with BBC.

[Jeannaisais]

Lots of interesting thoughts here! Keep it going guys! I can't think right now because my mind is just everywhere lol

[Jeannaisais]

Aw, am I the only one who always liked Mat? :( XD

 

Ah well, I love the way his character develops.

DOes he really not have any POV chappies in the first two books. o.O

 

I coulda sworn he did have some POV chapters in the first two books, but I could be wrong. I feel like there was definitely some in the first book as you were trying to figure out which one of them was the one Moiraine was really after. I mean, it'd be kind of a dead give away from a reader's perspective if it's constantly from one character's POV....

[BFG]

WOT has this statistical analysis of tEotW and tGH.

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/The_Eye_of_the_World#Statistical_analysis

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/The_Great_Hunt#Statistical_Analysis

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/The_Dragon_Reborn#Statistical_Analysis

 

Rand has close to 80% of the POV in the first book, and over 50% of the POv in the second book. Mat leaps in with 26% in tDR, but this is the first time he travels without another major character...

 

But Mat does have a way of taking centre stage, even when he isn't :)

[Jeannaisais]

Huh...interesting stats....I wonder how they figured those (or should I actually click on the links to determine that? )

 

So, that's why the first time you ever read the books, you get so easily attached to Rand. I feel like you expect him to be the Dragon Reborn but it also shocks you at the same time.

 

As for getting to know Mat in those first books...I had forgotten how big of a part that dagger really plays in what happens to him and how the reader would perceive him. I remember viewing him in pity and assuming he would die before the end of the second book...oh how wrong was I!!

[F Horn of Valere]

So, that's why the first time you ever read the books, you get so easily attached to Rand. I feel like you expect him to be the Dragon Reborn but it also shocks you at the same time.

 

Exactly! I honestly think RJ originally intended this to be a series about Rand, with a decent supporting cast used just for breaks in the action. It was supposed to only be a trilogy. I think it is telling that the POV ratio changes the further from that trilogy goal he progressed.

[BFG]

I can't remember what I truly originally thought, I love his introduction as a prankster and he's always had a core of honor despite the dagger up until Caemlyn - sticking with Rand when he was sick, volunteering to go back for Eg even though he was dying. I'm not sure that anyone else would have been as relatively uncorrupted as him (think Frodo in LotR). But I always thought of him as a secondary character and that it was Rands story. It did take me a couple of rereads to really notice his initial channeling sickness, but I don't remember being surprised that he was the Dragon reborn.

 

Trying to be a bit more analytical and his reaction to anyone channeling was annoying, but equal between AS and male channelers, as was his reaction to Rand the Lord - but to be fair, Rand was acting like an idiot and Mat treated him as such (wow - Mat the original Cadsuane), after that events moved too quickly. Rand explains why he was trying to drive them away, Mat reacts with horror that he's a channeler and runs away, that same night Lanfear takes Rand to a portal world and the next time they meet Mat's a bit closer to normal, but a lot of time has passed. Plus all the above is under the influence of the dagger.

 

 

EDIT: I think stats are done based on % of chapters - where chapters are split they each get a % of that chapter, but I wasn't really interested enough to check. They've linked in Leighs reread on Tor though, which is pretty cool!

[F Horn of Valere]

I'll trust any stats that are even remotely related to Leigh.

[lolguy26]

Although I agree with the sentiment that he acts like an ass for much of tGH, in my eyes he redeams himself at the end. When Rand tells the others to leave (after Ingtars sacrifice) Mats the one who asks about Rand, additionally when Rand says he needs to go back for Eg, Mats the first to agree even though he really needs to leave.

"Saving Egwene isn't a waste of time!"

 

There's a bit about the Horn scene that I find interesting - when Hawkwing is summoned he says

 

...he looked around, frowning. "something is wrong here. Something holds me." Suddenly he turns his sharp-eyed gaze on Rand. "You are here. Have you the banner?"...

I've wondered although anyone could have blown it, it sounds like the HotH follow the banner and the Dragon, not the Hornblower. What does everyone think?

 

since we arent allowed to post spoilers ill look for the thread where this was discussed

[lolguy26]

mat has always been one of my favorite characters, simply cuz he didnt have any of the non-sense others did, perrin/faile thing, rand/darkrand thing.

 

the one thing that annoyed me was his dislike at being called "lord", i suppose karma had her hand in this

[F Horn of Valere]

Yeah, that bothered me too. Given Mat's personality, I would have thought he would kind of like getting the title.

[WolfbrotherKronos]

I actually wasn't really sure what to think of mat early on. I thought he was a good comic relief character, but then became more serious. He still had a sense of fun though. I think I like him a little better in TGH though.

[Christine]

November's Discussion is up : http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/76420-regimental-book-discussion-when-did-mat-become-great-teotw-acos/

[Katiora]

Points count for October:

 

Katiora - 7

lolguy - 5

Auld Manriva - 10

dicetosser - 7

Christine - 7

F Horn of Valere - 22

BFG - 20

Jea - 16

Basel Gill - 11

The Bard Babe - 16

demonspawn - 6

WolfbrotherKronos - 5

Andrew the Ashaman - 5