Mazrim Taim - Darkfriend

[XoMeltdownoX]

The dream spike is a recent addition.

[MasterAblar]

One of the greatest indications that Taim is a darkfriend is the sigil outside his palace: a gauntlet holding lightning bolts. This is the same sigil as on the back of Sammael's throne in TAR, and on the black ajah coach in Tear that took Nyneave, Egwene, and Elayne to the Stone.

[Suttree]

One of the greatest indications that Taim is a darkfriend is the sigil outside his palace: a gauntlet holding lightning bolts. This is the same sigil as on the back of Sammael's throne in TAR, and on the black ajah coach in Tear that took Nyneave, Egwene, and Elayne to the Stone.

 

That along with SG rock at the BT...

[Knivy]

Also, you can travel from a Deamspike-bound place if you know the "key" or something. If Taim is a darkfriend, then it would seem like he should know this "key."

[BFG]

The Fades would be sensed by both the AS and the AM. Easier to Travel with the victim to the Fades.

 

Taim did not use Compulsion on the Saladeans.

 

It's possible to prevent AS (and presumable AM) from feeling at least some dark creatures. A dragkar sneaks up on Moiraine in tGH.

[XoMeltdownoX]

The Fades would be sensed by both the AS and the AM. Easier to Travel with the victim to the Fades.

 

Taim did not use Compulsion on the Saladeans.

 

It's possible to prevent AS (and presumable AM) from feeling at least some dark creatures. A dragkar sneaks up on Moiraine in tGH.

True. But not Fades apparently.

[thisguy]

I can't see how Taim is not a DF. If he ends up not being a DF it would be one of the most surprising turns of events in the entire series. He seems to lively in mind and emotion to have been myrdraal turned or under compulsion.

[Darksmoon]

The look in the peoples eye that has changed seems to match up with compulsion really well.

 

Not having a confirmed person who has been changed by the 13 x 13 method makes it tough to know how they would act.

[BFG]

The Fades would be sensed by both the AS and the AM. Easier to Travel with the victim to the Fades.

 

Taim did not use Compulsion on the Saladeans.

 

It's possible to prevent AS (and presumable AM) from feeling at least some dark creatures. A dragkar sneaks up on Moiraine in tGH.

True. But not Fades apparently.

 

Still only on SR of my reread and I can't remember a lot of the detail. How do we know that fades can't be 'shielded'? I don't remember that the 'shielding' happens very often, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

[XoMeltdownoX]

The Fades would be sensed by both the AS and the AM. Easier to Travel with the victim to the Fades.

 

Taim did not use Compulsion on the Saladeans.

 

It's possible to prevent AS (and presumable AM) from feeling at least some dark creatures. A dragkar sneaks up on Moiraine in tGH.

True. But not Fades apparently.

 

Still only on SR of my reread and I can't remember a lot of the detail. How do we know that fades can't be 'shielded'? I don't remember that the 'shielding' happens very often, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

I am not sure. Could be you are right.

[Hagazussa]

But why go to the effort of preventing anyone from feeling fades, both the fades and Taim have types of teleportation they can use and Taim do leave the Black Tower from time to time, no one would raise an eyebrow if he took a student with him.

 

I will be disappointed if Taim is a Darkfriend, I like the idea of someone who is just plain a bad person without them having been turned to serve the WoT world's version on El Diablo, that a person can just plain and simple be a power hungry, arrogant, brutal manipulator just on their own. Now I do agree that there is a bigger change than Taim is a Darkfriend than not, but I do not think it is a forgone conclusion for there are no direct evidence, for the most part it is only "evil" things he have done and that do not have to indicate that he have turned to the Shadow.

 

To me if I where to argue for Taim being a Darkfriend however the biggest argument is not his deeds but the question of how he managed to escape the Aes Sedai who had captured him, I mean when a man is first Shielded and under guard it is probably not a trivial matter to get away, the books also never mention how he do it. Now I am not saying that he could not have used cunning and had allot of luck but the argument that he might have been captured by Black Ajah and forcibly turned to the Shadow and then let loose is a rather decent theory for how he escaped, or he could have tuned willingly to save himself, and then be let go. But his actions I do not think indicate that he is or is not a Darkfriend, they only indicate that he is a rather bad man.

[Suttree]

I will be disappointed if Taim is a Darkfriend, I like the idea of someone who is just plain a bad person without them having been turned to serve the WoT world's version on El Diablo, that a person can just plain and simple be a power hungry, arrogant, brutal manipulator just on their own. Now I do agree that there is a bigger change than Taim is a Darkfriend than not, but I do not think it is a forgone conclusion for there are no direct evidence, for the most part it is only "evil" things he have done and that do not have to indicate that he have turned to the Shadow.

 

Wouldn't you call Shayol Gul rock at the BT, the forsaken sigil, and "let the lord of chaos rule" taken with his other actions direct evidence? We generally never even get that much in the WoT.

[Hagazussa]

Wouldn't you call Shayol Gul rock at the BT, the forsaken sigil, and "let the lord of chaos rule" taken with his other actions direct evidence? We generally never even get that much in the WoT.

 

I see your point but I see this as indications but not direct evidence.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Wouldn't you call Shayol Gul rock at the BT, the forsaken sigil, and "let the lord of chaos rule" taken with his other actions direct evidence? We generally never even get that much in the WoT.

 

I see your point but I see this as indications but not direct evidence.

 

Well, it depends how far you are willing to take it.

 

No, we don't have a proclamation stating "Mazrim Taim is a Darkfriend", however, I would say it is confirmed.

 

Posessing Shayol Ghul stone, Forsaken sigil, ordering Darkfriend Asha'man to kill Rand, quoting a line only the Forsaken know makes it certain.

 

It is impossible for a non-Darkfriend to have done all of these things.

 

One, perhaps, two of these could possibly be rationalized, but there is a point where there is literally no other logical explanation. For him to not be a Darkfriend would compromise the integrity and validity of the story.

[thisguy]

Personally, I'd say the rock alone seals the deal, unless he was bamboozled into buying it.

[Hagazussa]

Well I guess we will have to see when the final book is published, I am not convinced that Taim is a Darkfriend but you may be right.

[Matthew Schreder]

[Removed]

[FarShainMael]

[Removed]

 

AAAAAAAaaaarrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Mik]

[Removed]

 

AAAAAAAaaaarrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!1

My thoughts.

[FarShainMael]

twenty is new to the forum. It happens..

 

I see you're flying the banner!!

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

Probably not aware of this since you are new, so don't worry too much, but I advise removing the post. Even that can be considered spoilers, and given the nature of the situation, it is best not to spread it beyond the one or two topics that are already discussing it. Not trying to accuse you or anything, just a little advice so you don't find yourself accidently doing something.

 

Edit: Sorry, I don't mean to sound pretentious and high-handed, just trying to help out.

[Kahsm]

I will be disappointed if Taim is a Darkfriend, I like the idea of someone who is just plain a bad person without them having been turned to serve the WoT world's version on El Diablo, that a person can just plain and simple be a power hungry, arrogant, brutal manipulator just on their own. Now I do agree that there is a bigger change than Taim is a Darkfriend than not, but I do not think it is a forgone conclusion for there are no direct evidence, for the most part it is only "evil" things he have done and that do not have to indicate that he have turned to the Shadow.

 

Wouldn't you call Shayol Gul rock at the BT, the forsaken sigil, and "let the lord of chaos rule" taken with his other actions direct evidence? We generally never even get that much in the WoT.

 

Exactly, too much evidence is suspicious. And I say that only half jokingly because while I believe he's probably a DF, it saddens me greatly. Just another big bad to add to the black and white world that is WOT. Such a missed opportunity with that character.

[methegrate]

I agree with the bandwagon, I can't see any way that he's not a DF.

 

Frankly I think this was the biggest, worst, most terrible mistake Rand has ever made. He created the Black Tower to be a repository of weapons, the most dangerous weapons in the entire world in fact. Hundreds of men who can channel all training day and night to kill. He also knows that something isn't right there. Whether or not it's clear from his perspective that it's definitely the Dark One, there's no question that something is at least wrong. And in response to finding out that something is terribly wrong with the most dangerous men in the world, what does he do?

 

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. It's like ordering up a crate of atomic bombs then just leaving them on the front porch until you're ready for them.

 

Based on Towers of Midnight it's now clear that this is the work of the Dark One. When the good guys suddenly have dozens, maybe even hundreds of additional dreadlords to face at that Last Battle the death toll will be catastrophic. Without spoilers, I can say without question that this will absolutely be all Rand's fault.