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Complaint from Chapter 11 excerpt: Paranoid Mat?

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Mat's paranoia was thrown out the door when he donned his hat and walked out of the inn, where the innkeeper and her Seanchan husband recognized him. He stopped caring whether he is recognized or not. He seems to be on his way to the Tarasin Palace and knows he'll be there before the first report about him reaches the seekers.

 

As mentioned earlier there will be 10 chapters, and the prologue, preceding Mat's Ebou Dar entrance. We know that this is his first PoV; and the Black Tower has to be brought up to date; and Moiraine and Thom have to go to Merrilor; and the Merrilor conference is a few hours away from starting. Maybe one of those will have an explanation of why Mat is in Ebou Dar. But if this is his first PoV, how would his Ebou Dar trip be explained without a Mat PoV?

 

Mat doesnt need to have a POV at the meeting.I would like one, just to see his views concerning the different armies and whatnot. But its not essential. Just his presence is. I imagine while there Mat will reveal his marriage and will head to Ebou Dar to stop Tuon and the Seanchan from causing any further problems and to brocker an alliance.

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Believe it or not, I actually have. I just find it amusing that so much discussion takes place about why minute details occured in Chapter 11 that were pretty clearly flubs by BS with little to no plot synergy/explanation behind them.

 

It's certainly impossible that some amount of story between chapters 2 and 10 could resolve any plot synergy problems you are perceiving. It's completely obvious that everything there must be a mistake. I had similar problems when I read Chapter 1, and then Chapter 11 of the Eye of the World. Why were those nice kids from Emond's field suddenly all paranoid and running for their lives? They seemed so excited for the festivities in their town, but then all of the sudden they are in Watch Hill, and completely missed them? The characters the author wrote in Chapter 1 would NEVER have skipped their towns festivities, and certainly wouldn't listen to strange outsiders about not stopping in Watch Hill to check out that towns festivities.

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I had thought one of Leilwin's roles would be to tell Egwene that she saw the Seanchan Empress marry Matrim Cauthon, friend of the Dragon.

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I had thought one of Leilwin's roles would be to tell Egwene that she saw the Seanchan Empress marry Matrim Cauthon, friend of the Dragon.

 

But Leilwin has no reason to do so...shes never met Egwene and has no reason to even suspect any connection between Egwene and Mat. Now, if Nyneave were to talk about her friend Matrim Cuathon in Leilwin's hearing, that would be another kettle of fish. As Siuan Sanche would say.

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I had thought one of Leilwin's roles would be to tell Egwene that she saw the Seanchan Empress marry Matrim Cauthon, friend of the Dragon.

 

But Leilwin has no reason to do so...shes never met Egwene and has no reason to even suspect any connection between Egwene and Mat. Now, if Nyneave were to talk about her friend Matrim Cuathon in Leilwin's hearing, that would be another kettle of fish. As Siuan Sanche would say.

 

There is a connection. Mat connects to Nynaeve and Elayne. Leilwin knows this. She mentions it when she and Domon approach Mat in Winter's Heart. Nynaeve just connected her to Egwene.

 

Further, what if Nynaeve or Egwene (or both) demand to know their story? Mat's name certainly comes up then. And with it, mention of Tuon as well.

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I don't know who those people are. But, one reason I will be reading Brandon Sanderson's AMOL is for the rumored 50,000 words written by RJ, because, sadly you cant have one without the other.

 

 

Fish

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Mat's caution in entering Ebou Dar is in character. You could even go so far as to say that Mat's caution then sudden reversal is Brandon trying to capture the incongruity between Mat's thoughts/plans with what he actually does and what happens to him. Even if you consider the latter a stretch, I think his caution is entirely consistent with his character. The chapter's just missing RJ's style, and these things don't come off right.

 

EDIT: Also, I don't believe that is all of chapter 11. Not by a long shot. It's just a segment of it. And there's no reason to think that the given section started at the beginning of the chapter, either.

Edited by Agitel

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I'm fine with how Mat is in the chapter and just thank Brandon that he's continued on RJ's work.

 

Mat is of course going to try to escape scrutiny entering Ebou Dar. Not only is it simply his nature and he's unsure about the reception Fortuona has for him, but he's also trying to avoid Darkfriends who have his picture and have been feeling rather stabby lately.

 

Mat plonked on his hat and uncovered his ashanderei when it came time to get George's attention and I think he's taking this mentality now, he's fine with people seeing him and knowing who is because they will not stop him in time and he likely plan to use his image to get a buzz in the city to draw out who he wants to draw out. People will act differently even in way he predicts they will act when he's Mat the Prince of the Ravens rather than Mandevwin the Poorly Disguised Hobo.

 

I reckon Mat would have mentioned the marriage the FoM to Rand, or it comes out rather awkwardly, publicly and humerously via Egwene/Moiraine. I believe he'll need to be there as Rand will need Moiraine to get the sisters on board, she'll basically save the day

 

Also Leilwin doesn't need to mention anything about Mats marriage, she arrived in Tar Valon with the sisters who will likely do that for her, one with a somewhat bluer than normal mouth all too happy to blab

 

***

 

Edit: Oops yeah, I forgot... I may have slightly given the gholam the name of George a little bit between books.. Just go with it....

Edited by The Legacy

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I'm fine with how Mat is in the chapter and just thank Brandon that he's continued on RJ's work.

 

Mat is of course going to try to escape scrutiny entering Ebou Dar. Not only is it simply his nature and he's unsure about the reception Fortuona has for him, but he's also trying to avoid Darkfriends who have his picture and have been feeling rather stabby lately.

 

Mat plonked on his hat and uncovered his ashanderei when it came time to get George's attention and I think he's taking this mentality now, he's fine with people seeing him and knowing who is because they will not stop him in time and he likely plan to use his image to get a buzz in the city to draw out who he wants to draw out. People will act differently even in way he predicts they will act when he's Mat the Prince of the Ravens rather than Mandevwin the Poorly Disguised Hobo.

 

I reckon Mat would have mentioned the marriage the FoM to Rand, or it comes out rather awkwardly, publicly and humerously via Egwene/Moiraine. I believe he'll need to be there as Rand will need Moiraine to get the sisters on board, she'll basically save the day

 

Also Leilwin doesn't need to mention anything about Mats marriage, she arrived in Tar Valon with the sisters who will likely do that for her, one with a somewhat bluer than normal mouth all too happy to blab

 

***

 

Edit: Oops yeah, I forgot... I may have slightly given the gholam the name of George a little bit between books.. Just go with it....

 

George is dead though..

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George is dead though..

 

He's more... kinda occupied for a bit..... til possibly the end of the Wheel.... Anwho the point I was making is he had a reason for plonking on the hat and announcing to the world "Hello World! This is Me! Life should be fun for everyone!" (That's right, bringing the world of Dragonmount and Saddle Club together! You're Welcome!!!) knowing the attention it would get and being ready to use it

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The chapter feels more like awkward Mat from the TGS than the more RJ Mat from TOM. He repeats the whole, "I have spent time coming up with a backstory" thing. This is NOT Mat's character. He would roll the dice and trust to his luck. Not spend a bunch of time coming up with a cover story.

 

It must be tough though for someone who doesn't drink / get drunk / gamble to write a character like Mat, however. There are times when I get the sense from Brandon that he is condemning drinking and/or those who drink in some of the language the characters use before doing so or after going to the taverns. He clearly doesn't get it, but that's the culture he grew up with.

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Mat's caution in entering Ebou Dar is in character. You could even go so far as to say that Mat's caution then sudden reversal is Brandon trying to capture the incongruity between Mat's thoughts/plans with what he actually does and what happens to him. Even if you consider the latter a stretch, I think his caution is entirely consistent with his character. The chapter's just missing RJ's style, and these things don't come off right.

 

EDIT: Also, I don't believe that is all of chapter 11. Not by a long shot. It's just a segment of it. And there's no reason to think that the given section started at the beginning of the chapter, either.

exactly what i think. we're not used to seeing so much of the thought process Mat has, but the actions and most of the words seem right.

 

i agree that this does not seem like the beginning of the chapter but rather more like the end

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The wurds seem right?? LOL.

 

Yeah. Because so many characters went around saying "Saidered" and "Seanchaned" and calling themselves "Master Crimson " before Mat did starting in Sanderson's WOT books ;-)

 

 

Fish

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The obvious answer is that it is BS doing a poor job rushing through finishing the book to get it off his desk. A lot of people don't like to be overly negative about BS and his work, but I have a hard time accepting some of the blatant lack of effort he has put into certain parts of the story. Some parts and characters he does well on, some he falls short on because his writing talents are not comparable to RJ's, and other parts are just blatantly "off" in a way that makes me want to throw the book down. I can accept that he can't write Mat as well as RJ, or that some of the grand scenes we've been waiting for don't turn out the way we wanted...what I can't accept is when the tone of the writing (Chapter 11 is a perfect example) is so far off that the entire thing looks like it's written in another series and has no place whatsoever in WoT. What I can't accept is when SMALL DETAILS are consistently wrong in a way that suggests a flat out lack of preparation and effort. The same details everyone is noticing and pointing out throughout all of chapter 11. These details are important and they matter because when added up they contribute to immersing the reader into the story. Brandon doesn't seem to get this and just flies through details in a manner that suggests he is making them up as he goes along without any planning. The result is that he gets the tone wrong, the story wrong, and a lot of die hard fans of the series finish reading with a frown on their face.

 

It's just a shame IMO. Brandon may not be the author that RJ was, but he is a lot etter than what he's giving us in some of these WoT scenes. He is supposed to take over the role of WoT Master in becoming the author...instead he doesn't seem aware of details even half as much as most of the forum contributors here. That's sad.

 

 

 

Thank you. Well said here. I personally do not like the way he's been writing Mat at all. I'm glad he's finishing the book, and in all reality, Harriet has the final say before it goes to print. So if it's ok with her......

 

But that's my only complaint about Brandon. I just don't like how he writes Mat. Not just the new chapter 11. I didn't like it from the get go. He wrote the battle scene with the Gholam and the scene in the Finns world very well, but I think these were spots where RJ probably had more notes completed on how he wanted that to turn out. (I could be wrong here too). On the other hand, I think he's done an excellent job with the other characters, especially Talmanes in the prologue.

 

 

 

A lot of people have made accounts for no other purpose than to bitch about BS. Never cared to post until they decided they "can't accept" the way he's doing things. Yet they're reading the books still. So I guess, when it comes down to it, they can and will accept it.

 

And I also agree with Ashaman Kovan. It goes with the saying that "If you don't have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all".

At the same time, I've been reading these books for over half my life now and I'm still waiting for the ending. I wouldn't care who finished it as long as I can get a satisfying conclusion to the books. I cannot imagine anyone not finishing the books just because they disagree with the way BS is writing them. Again, this goes to the point I made above. Harriet has the final say before it goes to print and if she's satisfied then maybe we should all be happy it's being finished. It could be a lot worse, and with BS and Harriet having both the notes and help from RJ's assistants to complete his work, I cannot imagine this being finished any better than the way it's being done. I'm looking forward to January and the ending.

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bigdoug...just so you know: It has been confirmed that the ENTIRE end of Mats storyline in ToM (including the Tower of Ghenji and Moiraine) had been written completely by Robert Jordan before his death.

 

Regarding the duel with the gholam, we do not know for certain how much of that was Rj (if any) and how much was

Sanderson - though Sanderson has implied that parts other than the Tower of Ghenji in TOM involving Mat were also written partly by Jordan.

 

 

Fish

Edited by The Fisher King

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bigdoug...just so you know: It has been confirmed that the ENTIRE end of Mats storyline in ToM (including the Tower of Ghenji and Moiraine) had been written completely by Robert Jordan before his death.

 

Regarding the duel with the gholam, we do not know for certain how much of that was Rj (if any) and how much was

Sanderson - though Sanderson has implied that parts other than the Tower of Ghenji in TOM involving Mat were also written partly by Jordan.

 

 

Fish

 

 

Thanks. Then I was correct in saying I don't like the way he writes Mat. I do enjoy the other characters. He just don't seem to get Mat right at all. It seems I was also correct in assuming that Jordan had written the action scenes for Mat.

You're all right Fish. No matter what these other people say. Thanks again.

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LoL. Thanks. Imo, I cant stand the way he writes Mat, Fain, Elayne or Cadsuane. He does ok with Nynaeve, Min, Rand and and Perrin. The majority of Egwene in the past two books was written by Jordan.

 

I felt he did an OK job writing Cadsuane in The Gathering Storm UNTIL her last scene with Tam where he almost ruins the character for me.

 

 

Fish

Edited by The Fisher King

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The wurds seem right?? LOL.

 

Yeah. Because so many characters went around saying "Saidered" and "Seanchaned" and calling themselves "Master Crimson " before Mat did starting in Sanderson's WOT books ;-)

 

 

Fish

key word being "most." the substance is more important than getting annoyed at bs for comparing the burn perrin's hammer gave to burgers on a grill. that was much worse than saidared.

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come on people what part of it is so hard to get "He is not RJ" should I say it again for you. here goes, "he is not RJ" His writing style conflicts with RJ we already know that, but that is what we have. Is their a point in repeating those same complaints all over every thread?

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Regarding the original topic of the thread, Mat went to the gate without Petra without knowing Petra was at the other gate. If it would have been luckier for Mat to be seen by Petra, he would have gone through that gate, regardless of whether Mat thinks he should be seen or not. Therefore, Mat is incognito both by design and because that's actually the best thing for him at the moment.

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