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Does anyone else think that the Battle of Camelyn seems veeery oddly timed?


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It just seems awkward to me that we get what SHOULD be a fairly epic Battle in its own right beginning at the start of the last book. I read that Brandon was quoted as saying that the last book was ''a lot of Battles'' but I always felt like the last book/AMOL should be all about ONE Battle: Tarmon Gaidon.

 

From a storyline point of view as well it just FEELS like the Battle of Camelyn should have taken place a few books EARLIER. Almost like the BOC is LATE. And only being covered becuase Team Jordan realized they ''had'' to fit it in.

 

Just seems like RJ meant it to be earlier. Also worries me that if you really do it justice...then how awesome are you really capable of making the Last Battle?

 

 

Fish

Edited by The Fisher King
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I'm not huge on LotR knowledge, never read the books. But in the last movie they have the battle for Minas Tirith (SP?) which was epic and then the battle at The Black Gates. So you could sort of equate it to that. I don't really think I'm getting my feeling across but maybe you know what I mean. If they could work that out in a movie I feel like text will be able to convey plenty enough to have both battles and for them both to epic and satisfying.

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From memory Brandon has already said that book 14 is going to be a lot about Matt... it might have something to do with that? It would make sense for him to end up as the general in the battle and turning the tide as the first big act in the book.

 

I'm not sure it could have happened earlier cos Elayne has still been in Camelyn up until recently? Now the people are leaderless and their only hope may be the black tower - I'm not sure how Elayne would have felt about that if she was still in the city!

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I've always viewed Tarmon Gaidon as a war. Wars have more than one spot of battle. Sometimes many different battles going on at once. It can also lead into Mat's role of leading the Lights Armies in general if he arrives and saves Camelyn.

 

I've heard someone else mention once they thought Camelyn could be where Talmane's and most of the Band get killed.

 

Something to make it more realistic could be to have Camelyn be the first victim of Tarmon Gaidon because to me, if every major country makes it out of the series basically untouched as far as wars go, it will be a sad injustice. I mean, if the Trolloc Wars saw massive countries like Manetheren and Shadar Logoth killed off. Then why should Tarmon Gaidon not wipe many major nations from the map? I've always figured Tarmon Gaidon would make the Trolloc Wars and all previous conflicts dull. Like a preseason football (NFL america) game compaired to the Superbowl.

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I've always viewed Tarmon Gaidon as a war. Wars have more than one spot of battle. Sometimes many different battles going on at once. It can also lead into Mat's role of leading the Lights Armies in general if he arrives and saves Camelyn.

 

 

This is what I was thinking. Too much emphasis put on the word battle when really it's a war.

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like others have said it is just another piece of TG, and it makes sense since it looks like the shadow is trying to overwhelm the defences so while their hitting the borderlands with large hordes, hittin behind the lights line is a very smart move to make.

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Also, something I just thought of too. Camelyn has the 'Dragons'.. I'd hit there with a surprise attack too, to either take or destroy as many of these new weapons as possible. There are enough darkfriends to not be all that shocked that they know of and probably want some or all the Dragons taken or ruined.

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I think one reason that the Battle of Caemlyn is starting now and now a few books earlier is because the Shadow just wasn't prepared. You have to have a lot of trollocs and myddrahal ready to go otherwise the attack will be defended against easily and then better defended for next time. The Shadow waited until they had enough forces and then sent their first few waves against the northern border and then unleashed the massive sneak attack into Caemlyn. Brilliant if you ask me

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Good point, Southpaw.

 

You know, Im wondering, is this the first time in the entire series that we have seen the Dark actually launch a major offensive against a major Team Light city with the sole intent of either taking it over or decimating it? I think it is.

 

 

Fish

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Oh - before everybody starts pointing out all the examples to show how wrong I am, lol, let me expound:

 

Trollocs in the 2Rivs in book 4 was about Fain trying to draw Rand out. Thats not a Major city anyway. Illian was about Sammael vs Rand ... The Stone of Tear was more about , yada yada, etc etc...see what I mean?

 

I think this is the first time that a large, foreign ARMY has INVADED a bigtime Team Light city in a military fashion with the chief goal being to conquer that city for military reasons.

 

 

Fish

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I agree with you, Fish. I think there will be more as well, but Camelyn makes the most sence strategically. It has new destructive weapons and it would make more sense to hit there first to resolve that threat first so they aren't expecting any sort of conflict. Since I think its seems all the characters seem to think all the fighting would just be in the blight and SG, I think there will be a lot of strikes against some of the larger cities. Would be interesting to see a battle with troops and Aiel defending the Stone of Tear or another strong fortification, and hearing about places like Murandy, Illian, and Cairhein getting overrun.

Its not hard to believe that Tarmon Gaidon will change the face ot Randland. Perhaps condensing down a lot of the nations into a few.

I think it would be interesting to see the trolloc hordes to push far into other lands. keeping most of the Seachan occupied. Possibly running rampant through most of Randland other than where mass amounts of troops are.

 

See places like Kandar, Arafel, and Shienar became Malkier 2.0 if Lan and Nynave were to live.

 

Andor and Cairhien become one under Elayne.

 

Whatever the Seachan hold.

 

Tear and Illian having to join to stay strong with the Seachan sitting next door.

 

Maybe Perrin and Faile getting Saldaea.

 

 

Although I doubt we'll get much of this only because thats a lot of political manuevering that would have to be done after TG.

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Deacon - Im with you thinking it could be very interesting to watch the Trollocs just run loose. They never really have before when it wasn't a controlled setting or some sort of ruse.

 

Ashaman Kovan - I, too, am really looking forward to seeing Team Light fire up those Dragons and launch those ''eggs!''

 

 

Fish

Edited by The Fisher King
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I'm pretty confident that Caemlyn has a purpose here. The way the eipclogue stated it, it almost made it appear to be completely toast. Regardless of it's state, it still has definite purposes, which could be but are not limited to:

The Dragons, getting an actual field test against fleshies.

Mat, being humbled, and learning to trust other people, IE Verin's letter he neglected to open, and thusly making him responsible for some dead bodies.

We also know Mat's going back to Caemlyn, now, who knows if he can get a gateway up if his Asha'man homies are distracted, it could be a good culture shock for Moiraine, to see the state of the world, and how/what people have been doing

 

And not to paint that horse black, but I've sorely missed Moiraine throwing balefire around.

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They didn't invade because of the Dragons, Verin knew they were going to invade before Mat even reached Caemlyn, the Dragons didn't exist then. It will be in response to Elayne uniting the country maybe to remove one of the most powerfull nations from the war. One "Allied" with the Dragon.

Edited by rand4747
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Fish,

 

In the AOL the forces of light where losing badly and te DO's forces already occupied a large number of light sided cities/fortresses, with certain forsaken acting as governors. LTT and his companions then traveled to SG realizing they were not going to win the war, there they encountered the 13 highest ranking dreadlords (who got the name forsaken/chosen) and they got to emprison them all in the DO's dungeon. So this answer the "I think this is the first time that a large, foreign ARMY has INVADED a bigtime Team Light city in a military fashion with the chief goal being to conquer that city for military reasons."? Or do you mean solely in this age?

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If I were the Shadow, and Randland proper moved most of its military force to the FoM, it would make a lot of sense to me to attack and overrun their base of operations while they are gone.

 

The way it must look to Moridin right now, Seanchan appears ready to attack Tar Valon for you. If you can take away Caemlyn with trollocs, myrdraal, and Taim's boys, at the same time, where could everyone go to regroup if things at the FoM don't go well? They'd be pinned in. If they scramble too many to Caemlyn, there isn't enough at Tar Valon. And vice versa. Then hit them with your full assault from the Blight while they are scrambling.

 

If you're the shadow, you want to get things moving quickly, b/c you don't want to risk Seanchan allying with Randland. Once Seanchan sacks Tar Valon, getting them to rally behind the Dragon banner will be almost impossible. Things have to be looking good. I also have a feeling that the shadow has something in mind to counter the Aiel. Darkfriend Sorilea involvement, perhaps?

 

I'm not sure that the shadow has accounted for Mat Cauthon, though, and I believe we will enjoy reading about how grievous an error that is.

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The real question is... Why didnt Rand Ward the waygate like he did at SL? you'd think he would have taken a lot more precautions than just guarding it, especially as he spent quite a lot of time at Caemlyn, just seems awefully weak to me, especially as he wanted the Ogier to note down all of them for him, and wanted them all removed if possible. but no he leaves one of them open to be able to access the city of a woman he is meant to be in love with...

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The real question is... Why didnt Rand Ward the waygate like he did at SL? you'd think he would have taken a lot more precautions than just guarding it, especially as he spent quite a lot of time at Caemlyn, just seems awefully weak to me, especially as he wanted the Ogier to note down all of them for him, and wanted them all removed if possible. but no he leaves one of them open to be able to access the city of a woman he is meant to be in love with...

 

He did ward it(if not in the exact same way), someone tampered with them, that is why Verin's note mentioned they falsely thought it was safe.

Edited by Suttree
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The real question is... Why didnt Rand Ward the waygate like he did at SL? you'd think he would have taken a lot more precautions than just guarding it, especially as he spent quite a lot of time at Caemlyn, just seems awefully weak to me, especially as he wanted the Ogier to note down all of them for him, and wanted them all removed if possible. but no he leaves one of them open to be able to access the city of a woman he is meant to be in love with...

 

Yeah, that's pretty stupid - seriously. If RJ did that for a convenient way for the Trollocs, etc to attack Caemlyn, why not just saw some dreadlords opened some waygates or something?

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Trap maybe?

Thing is, Rand woves traps at all the other waygates (if I'm remembering correctly) - basically - as soon as a shadowspawn walks through he's marked and will die a couple of miles from the waygate. He created it that way so that a myrdraal, trolloc, whatever walking through the gate would alert the ones behind it of the trap by dying right away.

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Exactly my point. Possibly elayne discovers trap weave that is similar. Or discovers a Ter' Angreal that serves a similar purpose. Or maybe they want them to come through because it's suck close quarters all they'd really have to do is make a Gateway right in front of it so as soon as they come out the walk into the gateway and die.

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