Tinkers and AMOL

[Stormofheaven]

So, I have seen very little discussion concerning tinkers. They have been largely ignored for the majority of the later books. However, what will they be doing for the last battle? I am fairly certain I read somewhere that they were gathering. My speculation is that the armies will be losing and the Tinkers will learn the song. Then it's like a power boost. The armies of light wil kick ass. Any other thoughts?

[Shai-tan]

I've always considered the song to be merely finding their way back to the singing in the Age of Legend in general not a specific song.... I think the Tinkers believe there is a song but it's merely a misconception stemmed from the Aiel POV which Rand seen in Rhuidean where the first Tinkers went to re-find the singing from the AoL

[LoLPoR]

I think they have a part to play but it would be a side note after the major conflicts. I'd like to be wrong though because I've always liked the Tinkers, something about bright flashy colored objects. Hmmm maybe that's the adhd talking.

[aross]

The theory out there that I like is that the "song" is the Song of Growing, and is required to help regrow the Prison. It's believed that Tinkers, Ogiers (from both sides of the ocean), and Aiel will all sing. Ashaman and Aes Sedai will weave together to amplify the song. Rand, Moiraine, and Nynaeve will weave together with Callandor at Shayol Ghul (to hold the Dark One back while the Prison is re-grown perhaps?).

 

To get a small feel for the Song of Growing, read the glass columns parts in The Shadow Rising (book 4).

 

Remember that Rand said on a few occasions that he and the Ashaman are not "weapons" and never were. There will be plenty of fighting, certainly, but that fighting is not where all is won or lost. The fighting is for survival only. Everything hinges on the Prison. The song just is not likely to be a "powerboost".

[Suttree]

Here is the best thing I have seen explaining that there was no single "song".

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/51179-demystifying-the-song/

[jwood01]

IIRC they are gathering outside Ebou Dar because the Seanchen offer them law and order, whereas everywhere else in Randland they were at the whims of Shaido, Dragonsworn, and civil war.

[thisguy]

IIRC they are gathering outside Ebou Dar because the Seanchen offer them law and order, whereas everywhere else in Randland they were at the whims of Shaido, Dragonsworn, and civil war.

 

That's interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if Hawkwing's armies knew something about it, they've been in league with the Ogier since they've left, we know from the Rhuidean flashbacks from TSR that some ogier were soldiers back at the end of the Age of Legends, we know that his armies basically wear the same uniforms as the soldiers from the Age of Legends. Maybe, they know something that has been forgotten elsewhere....

[WolfDragonFox]

I actually believe this is one of the easier and more obvious plot lines to figure out but as with any theory i could be totally wrong but i am indeed confident in what i believe will be the fate of the Tinkers. I think that Loial will find the song (he's quite the accomplished vocalist) and he will need the Tinkers of today and the tinkers of old (the Aiel) to join him in singing the song (which if you remember the terangreal flashbacks of Rand where the Ogiers, Aiel, and the Nym (green men like the last one in the eye of the world) were all singing the song of growing. They will do this to heal the scortched land of the world. Remember there is an mentioning of Aiel these days rarely singing but when they do it is beautiful!

[thisguy]

I actually believe this is one of the easier and more obvious plot lines to figure out but as with any theory i could be totally wrong but i am indeed confident in what i believe will be the fate of the Tinkers. I think that Loial will find the song (he's quite the accomplished vocalist) and he will need the Tinkers of today and the tinkers of old (the Aiel) to join him in singing the song (which if you remember the terangreal flashbacks of Rand where the Ogiers, Aiel, and the Nym (green men like the last one in the eye of the world) were all singing the song of growing. They will do this to heal the scortched land of the world. Remember there is an mentioning of Aiel these days rarely singing but when they do it is beautiful!

I think the Aile who join in, for the most part, will be those who have become gai'shan and won't take off the white even after their year and a day.

[Tiberius]

Here is the best thing I have seen explaining that there was no single "song".

 

I think it is indeed not just one special song. It is somehow the mystical quality of the chorus of their combined singing. That's not to say that just any song will work, but the manner in which it is sang is what's important. Some what like the magical qualities Tolkien gives singing (Luthian singing Sauron to sleep, etc). What they need to find is how to recreate their special 4-part harmonic mirical grow.

 

Edti: Maybe it was Melkor she sang to sleep. Or both. I forget...

[Lurk No More]

It was Morgoth,, I believe ...

[thisguy]

Melkor - Morgoth - same guy, if I remember right. Everybody had at least 214 names in the Silmarillion.

[Tiberius]

He was Melkor as an Ainu. He was named Morgoth after his casting out of Valinor IIRC

[thisguy]

He was Melkor as an Ainu. He was named Morgoth after his casting out of Valinor IIRC

 

"Look at the big brain on Tiberius!" ;)

 

Yeah, when I read the book the first time a million years ago, I had to make a list with everybody's names - especially the Noldori elves - Fingolfin, Finarfin, etc. I just kept getting confused as to who was who. :)

[Tiberius]

Almost as many names as this series. Just in one book. :-)

[Lurk No More]

_{Yeah, and I think Turin had like 5 names as well. Talk about being screwed over by the bad guy. That guy was uber cursed}

[Durinax]

I actually believe this is one of the easier and more obvious plot lines to figure out but as with any theory i could be totally wrong but i am indeed confident in what i believe will be the fate of the Tinkers. I think that Loial will find the song (he's quite the accomplished vocalist) and he will need the Tinkers of today and the tinkers of old (the Aiel) to join him in singing the song (which if you remember the terangreal flashbacks of Rand where the Ogiers, Aiel, and the Nym (green men like the last one in the eye of the world) were all singing the song of growing. They will do this to heal the scortched land of the world. Remember there is an mentioning of Aiel these days rarely singing but when they do it is beautiful!

I believe they said

 

"they only sang dirges for their dead, it is a song to make the stones weep"

[XoMeltdownoX]

He was Melkor as an Ainu. He was named Morgoth after his casting out of Valinor IIRC

I think Feanor named him Morgoth after the murder of Finwe and theft of the Silmarils.

[Tiberius]

He was Melkor as an Ainu. He was named Morgoth after his casting out of Valinor IIRC

I think Feanor named him Morgoth after the murder of Finwe and theft of the Silmarils.

Correct. Which led to the greatest of tragedies... But my main point is, remember how all of Arda sprang from the song of the Valar and created Eä? I think the "song" of the ancient Aiel is a parallel of sorts, and at some point, they will just begin singing (from sadness/suffering/rejoycing et al) and rediscover it spontaneously (as Talents have surfaced from need). Maybe with ogier help. We don't know if the two types of singing must be combined or are complimentary of each other. But anyway, I've always connected their seed signing with Tolkien since I first read the scene. Just my musing on the idea... Sorry if I'm rambling....

[thisguy]

In the beginning of book 5 the Aiel were saying a lot of the tinkers had come into the waste because it was safer for them and a lot of the Aiel who were caught up in the bleakness went to live among them.

 

I'm thinking more and more that most of the Aiel are going to die as the prophesy says and most of the ones who live will be the ones who have become tinkers or won't take off the white and have stay gai'shan.

[WolfDragonFox]

I actually believe this is one of the easier and more obvious plot lines to figure out but as with any theory i could be totally wrong but i am indeed confident in what i believe will be the fate of the Tinkers. I think that Loial will find the song (he's quite the accomplished vocalist) and he will need the Tinkers of today and the tinkers of old (the Aiel) to join him in singing the song (which if you remember the terangreal flashbacks of Rand where the Ogiers, Aiel, and the Nym (green men like the last one in the eye of the world) were all singing the song of growing. They will do this to heal the scortched land of the world. Remember there is an mentioning of Aiel these days rarely singing but when they do it is beautiful!

I believe they said "they only sang dirges for their dead, it is a song to make the stones weep"

Yes exactly!!! My perception of that is that when they do choose to sing, it is for their dead only, but that song is so beautiful it would make stones cry if they could. So I believe that will be used now in the growing songs which will be needed to revitalize the tainted land.

[Durinax]

In the beginning of book 5 the Aiel were saying a lot of the tinkers had come into the waste because it was safer for them and a lot of the Aiel who were caught up in the bleakness went to live among them.

 

I'm thinking more and more that most of the Aiel are going to die as the prophesy says and most of the ones who live will be the ones who have become tinkers or won't take off the white and have stay gai'shan.

this is likely true, but I hope that they still keep their warrior code, with ji'e'toh. But allow the tinkers to come back into the fold once again and protect them.

[Sasha Grayes]

Obviously it is Justin Bieber's song.

[Alonin]

I think the tinkers were invented only to occasionally provide aid to the main characters, and shame the Aiel completely. Maybe to even be the "remnant of a remnant to be saved," by sheltering Aiel takenby the bleakness. But the song... Jordan just had to create a belief for them to keep them from being a completely ridiculous group of people. So, I think the song has no relevance.

[XoMeltdownoX]

I think the tinkers were invented only to occasionally provide aid to the main characters, and shame the Aiel completely. Maybe to even be the "remnant of a remnant to be saved," by sheltering Aiel takenby the bleakness. But the song... Jordan just had to create a belief for them to keep them from being a completely ridiculous group of people. So, I think the song has no relevance.

The Travelling People are loosely based on the Travellers (Ireland) and the Rom. With the exception of being pacifists they are very much like Travellers, who are also derisevly called Tinkers.