Egwene and Rand in Therapy

[Suttree]

Counselor: Welcome back, Brandon! How was your week?

 

Brandon: Fine, Mr. Counselor. I'm feeling pretty good now that I've finished A Memory of Light. Exciting times are ahead!

 

Counselor: That's good to hear. Anything in particular you want to talk about? Anything on your mind?

 

Brandon:...Uh...No. Not really.

 

Counselor:...Brandon.

 

Brandon:...Yeah?

 

Counselor: You'll have to be honest with me if you want to improve. Is there really nothing bothering you?

 

Brandon:...Well...

 

Counselor: Yes?

 

Brandon:...Well...it's just...Luckers. I'm...I'm afraid of how he'll take some scenes in this book...I mean, he's out to get me already, and...sometimes, when I'm alone, I can feel him staring at me. Murderously. And sometimes, the phone rings at night when nobody's around. I pick it up, and...

 

Counselor: It's okay Brandon, just take it easy. Take your time.

 

Brandon:...Okay...I pick up the phone, and a gravelly voice whispers, "Caaaaaadddsuuuuaaaaannnneeee...Caaaaaadddsuuuuaaaaannnneeee..." over and over again! It's driving me crazy, I can't take it!

 

Counselor: Brandon! It's okay, Brandon! He's not here! Jus- Just sit back down and relax. Everything's going to be okay. Just stay calm, and-

 

Brandon: And it's not just him! Terez, Suttree, Kael and everyone else are in on it too! It's a conspiracy, I tell you! Thank heavens I listened to Dida - he was telling the truth all along! I-I have to get out of here. I have to-

 

Counselor: I'm sorry, Brandon. But you're not going anywhere.

 

Brandon: Wait...I know that voice...You? No!

 

*Counselor takes off mask to reveal Luckers*

 

Luckers: *Balefire*

 

Well played SF. Although for the record Kael thinks there actually is a conspiracy!

[mike hunt's here]

Has anyone noticed that no one plays daes dae'mar anymore?

 

When was the last time it was mentioned?

[nolirion]

Elayne when she united Andor and Cairhien .

But yes people got the vibe about the end of the world coming so Daes dae'mar got turned down .

[shortkut]

Elayne when she united Andor and Cairhien .

But yes people got the vibe about the end of the world coming so Daes dae'mar got turned down .

that, and the story has not spent much time in carhein recently. no one plays the game like they do

[Maleshub]

One thing Rand has got in his defence is he was going mad. Egwene never had any such excuse and so I feel it's only right that there are more jokes aimed at her than Rand. In addition, although they were both tortured in their own way (Rand in the box and Egwene by the a'dam) Egwene has had more time to recover mentally from the mental and emotional damage caused whereas Rand hasn't had time to grieve and recover.

 

Regarding the beatings in the tower, Egwene has chosen to receive these in that she refused rescue. Therefore she has made a conscious decision to accept all the beatings as she knew they could continue as long as she remained in the tower.

 

Egwene accepted the beatings because she saw them in perspective. They were less important than the destruction of the WT.

 

But there is also her confinement in a box-cell by Elaida for a few days. I get the chills when I read that ... the worst form of torture: solitary confinement without light in a small grave.

 

"Is it difficult to endure?" Siuan asked softly.

"The cell is narrow enough for me to touch opposite walls at once," Egwene said. "And isn't very long, either. When I lie down, I have to bend my knees to fit. I can't stand, since the ceiling is so low it makes me stoop, and I can't sit without pain, for they no longer Heal me between beatings. The straw is old and itches. The door is thick and the cracks don't allow in much light.

.

.

.

Egwene shook her head. "It just occurred to me. This is what it must have been like for Rand. No, worse. The stories say he was locked in a box smaller than my cell. At least I can spend part of the evenings chatting with you. He had nobody. He was without the belief that his beatings meant something." Light send that she didn't have to endure as long as he had. Her imprisonment had only been a few days so far.

.

.

.

 

Her body suddenly exploded with pain, her backside pounded raw from the strap, her arms and legs cramped from being forced to lie curled in the small room. It smelled of old straw and mold, and she knew that if her nose hadn't been used to it, she would have smelled the stench of her own unwashed body as well. She stifled a groan—there were women outside, guarding her and maintaining her shield. She wouldn't let them hear her offer complaint, not even in the form of a groan.

 

She sat up, wearing the same novice dress that she'd worn to Elaida's dinner party. The sleeves of the dress were stiff with dried blood, and this cracked as she moved, scraping against her skin. She was parched; they never gave her enough water. But she did not complain. No yells, no cries, no begging. She forced herself to sit up despite the pain, smiling to herself at how it felt. She crossed her legs, then leaned back and—one by one—stretched the muscles in her arms. Then she stood and stooped over, stretching her back and shoulders. Finally, she lay down on her back and stretched her legs up into the air, cringing as they complained. She needed to remain limber. Pain was nothing. Nothing at all compared with the danger the White Tower was in.

 

She sat back down, cross-legged, and took deep breaths, repeating to herself that she wanted to be locked in this room. She could escape if she wished, but she remained. By remaining she undermined Elaida. By remaining she proved that some would not bow and quietly accept the fall of the White Tower. This imprisonment meant something.

 

The words, repeated in her head, helped stave off the panic at considering yet another day within this cell. What would she have done without the nightly dreams to keep her sane? Again, she thought of poor Rand, locked away. She and he shared something now. A kinship beyond a common childhood in the Two Rivers. They had both suffered Elaida's punishments. And it hadn't broken either of them.

 

There was nothing to do but wait. Around noon, they would open the doors and drag her out to be beaten. It wouldn't be Silviana who did the punishing. Giving the beatings was seen as a reward, compensation to the Red sisters for having to spend all day sitting in the dungeons guarding her.

 

After the beating, Egwene would go back in the cell and be given a bowl of tasteless gruel. Day after day it was the same.

[condonmc]

Like the new rendition of Egwene and Rand on the DM website banner, nice foreshadowing of the tension between the WT and the Dragon Reborn's "Grand Coalition". They look like prime candidates for conflict resolution therapy, but who is brave enough to counsel them and possibly draw the ire of the two most powerful leaders of the Third Age?

 

Counselor: Recognizing the problem is the first step; Egwene and Rand, I commend you for being willing to talk thru your conflict. And I need to remind you that we are in Far Madding and that neither of you will be able to touch the source or channel, so please refrain from dramatic gestures. You two must work together if there is any hope of the world surviving Tarmon Gai'don and fixing the Bore. Egwene, please begin.

 

Egwene: Where do I start? His woolhead scheme for breaking the three last Seals and releasing the Dark One or the other chaos and collateral damage he has caused all over the world?

 

Rand: She doesn't realize that I have changed after undergoing an epiphany; I'm now Rand Sedai, no longer Darth Rand who was going Aridhol on the World.

 

Egwene: Yes, he insists Saidin has been cleansed but there isn't a way to confirm that with Saidar. And that reminds me; he also had Aes Sedai forcibly bonded by his Ashaman which he is yet to explain...

 

Rand: I had no prior knowledge of Taim's and Logain's actions. Yes, I did demand some loyalty oaths but that was after Dumai's Wells. What I would like to know is why the White Tower wants to slow my consolidation of power and undermine the coalition which I am trying to build?

 

Egwene: Tarmon Gai'don and the fate of the world are too important to risk on the shoulders of one man, even the Dragon Reborn! You must accept our guidance and help or else the Salvation is in jeopardy.

 

Counselor: It seems what you two are talking about is differences in strategy; I sense that the problem is more personal. Didn’t the two of you come from the same village in Western Andor and more or less grow up together?

 

Egwene: Yes, that’s true at least, Emonds Field where I worked at my family’s inn. He (glares at Rand), was a bumpkin from off the farm in Westwood, who would visit and cause mischief on the village green with his two “friends”.

 

Counselor: (Consults notes) Um, those would be General Cauthon and Lord Aybara? Aren’t they also known for being Ta’veren and having performed amazing feats in the struggle against the Dark One?

 

Egwene: Ggrrrr! Ta’veren! Yes, they were just handed this so called instant “Greatness”. They didn’t have to acquire it by hard work, scheming, and manipulation… I remember what wide eyed fools they were when they first left the Two Rivers; they actually thought Baerlorn was a grand city!

 

Counselor: Egwene, I perceive that you are envious of Rand’s accomplishments; hasn’t he ever acknowledged that you too have also done important things?

 

Egwene: Well, yes; during his strange recent visit when he just strolled into the White Tower causing untold bedlam he did compliment me in a backhanded way, right before requesting my help for one of his ill thought plans.

 

Counselor: Hmmm, Hasn’t he always respected you and your feelings?

 

Egwene: Yes, he has, but he keeps secrets from me when he knows that I have this overwhelming need to know EVERYTHING. How does he expect my help when I don’t understand all of his motivations?

 

Counselor: Don’t you think that some of his thoughts should remain private in respect to operational security? Didn’t you just purge a bunch of Darkfriends in your own organization that were plotting against you and the forces of the Light?

 

Egwene: Yes, (reddens) but I think Rand doesn’t “share” with me because he is too embarrassed to discuss his scandals in the open. Why, do you know he’s corrupted two of my best friends in some sort of kinky love triangle and worst of all my friends won’t even admit it too me.

 

Rand: Actually, Egwene, it’s a quadrangle and I’m even more confused about it then you. (Sigh) Mat was right; I should have run for the Hills a long time ago…

I guess ' tip top' Eggy fans are angry cause its true................

[Morsker]

Egwene: It was a writing fault. Human error leaves a great margin for mistakes. I am Ta'veren.

I think Egwene could do better. She could turn the issue right around, and say ta'veren was the story's way of carrying male protagonists with zero leadership skills, making them competent when they had no right to be. This of course makes them dangerous. They'll need guidance. Aes Sedai guidance!

 

...

 

I've always felt it was weird that Egwene isn't ta'evern, since the story seems to lean on "ta'veren" as the explanation for all unusually effective leadership. But it seems it's only done with men. Why, I don't know. Maybe RJ couldn't escape the "blessed by prophecy" tropes with the men, but was better at breaking away from genre conventions with women.

[Clouded]

I always felt Ta'veren was one of the best concepts that RJ came up with. One thing that I've always been annoyed by in fiction was the amount of plot armor a main character had, or the number of miracles a character would perform. A main character could go into battle, defeat the biggest foe, and come out unharmed. I know I should suspend my disbelief when reading fiction, but sometimes a story is just too unbelievable to read.

 

 

RJ's Ta'veren concept is a saving grace against that annoyance. A character's plot armor is explained as improbable chance twisting. Any event that feels too miraculous is interpreted as the Pattern forcing a situation. The three main characters being Ta'veren explains their coming into power so unbelievably swiftly.

 

 

Egwene: It was a writing fault. Human error leaves a great margin for mistakes. I am Ta'veren.

I've always felt it was weird that Egwene isn't ta'evern, since the story seems to lean on "ta'veren" as the explanation for all unusually effective leadership. But it seems it's only done with men. Why, I don't know. Maybe RJ couldn't escape the "blessed by prophecy" tropes with the men, but was better at breaking away from genre conventions with women.

 

This has always bothered me, as well. Egwene's leadership skills come from almost no where. She is around 18 years old and was raised in a small village which was ignorant of the world. And yet, she gains the ability to lead a large number of women 200 years her senior. She gains a large amount of wisdom and political skill very quickly.

 

I don't remember who came up with it, but someone had a theory that one of the passive benefits of being a Ta'veren is that Ta'vereness rubs off on threads around the Ta'veren. They become like minor Ta'veren. They aren't about twisting chance. They are like a starting point for the Pattern to start its corrective mechanisms at.

 

I've always liked this theory. It can explain why Galad Damodred gets the lead of the White Cloaks. It can explain why and how Gawyn rallies the Younglings. It could even explain why Elaida gains the stole. But mostly, it can explain why Egwene can quickly get the entire tower to follow her without being Ta'veren.

 

The theory has its flaws. Most of these examples could be attributed to the pattern forcing a leader. But it just seems so coincidental that Galad would be the one chosen to lead the whitecloaks. Or that Masema would be the prophet. It could've have been any character, one we haven't seen yet, but it had to be Masema.

 

If anyone has read that theory before, could you please post where its from? I can not find it and would love to read it again.

[thisguy]

Egwene: It was a writing fault. Human error leaves a great margin for mistakes. I am Ta'veren.

I think Egwene could do better. She could turn the issue right around, and say ta'veren was the story's way of carrying male protagonists with zero leadership skills, making them competent when they had no right to be. This of course makes them dangerous. They'll need guidance. Aes Sedai guidance!

 

...

 

I've always felt it was weird that Egwene isn't ta'evern, since the story seems to lean on "ta'veren" as the explanation for all unusually effective leadership. But it seems it's only done with men. Why, I don't know. Maybe RJ couldn't escape the "blessed by prophecy" tropes with the men, but was better at breaking away from genre conventions with women.

It's Rand's Ta'evern-ness that makes Egwene Amyrilin. Even that pattern saw that she'd just nag him to death an he needs to make it alive to the Final Battle.

[Knivy]

Galad wasn't chosen to lead the whitecloaks, he won the title by killing Valda. "The victor gains the losers rank" or whatnot.

[fuzz1717]

Egwene: It was a writing fault. Human error leaves a great margin for mistakes. I am Ta'veren.

I think Egwene could do better. She could turn the issue right around, and say ta'veren was the story's way of carrying male protagonists with zero leadership skills, making them competent when they had no right to be. This of course makes them dangerous. They'll need guidance. Aes Sedai guidance!

 

...

 

I've always felt it was weird that Egwene isn't ta'evern, since the story seems to lean on "ta'veren" as the explanation for all unusually effective leadership. But it seems it's only done with men. Why, I don't know. Maybe RJ couldn't escape the "blessed by prophecy" tropes with the men, but was better at breaking away from genre conventions with women.

It's Rand's Ta'evern-ness that makes Egwene Amyrilin. Even that pattern saw that she'd just nag him to death an he needs to make it alive to the Final Battle.

 

That, and all the other major characters have some big role in the world (Dragon Reborn, Prince of Ravens, Lord of the Two Rivers, Queen of Andor, best Healer alive, etc etc for Rand/Mat/Perrin/Elayne/Nyn respectively). Egwene's plot line of ordinary Aes Sedai would be really redundant, so RJ had to make her someone important.

[Luckers]

Counselor: Welcome back, Brandon! How was your week?

 

Brandon: Fine, Mr. Counselor. I'm feeling pretty good now that I've finished A Memory of Light. Exciting times are ahead!

 

Counselor: That's good to hear. Anything in particular you want to talk about? Anything on your mind?

 

Brandon:...Uh...No. Not really.

 

Counselor:...Brandon.

 

Brandon:...Yeah?

 

Counselor: You'll have to be honest with me if you want to improve. Is there really nothing bothering you?

 

Brandon:...Well...

 

Counselor: Yes?

 

Brandon:...Well...it's just...Luckers. I'm...I'm afraid of how he'll take some scenes in this book...I mean, he's out to get me already, and...sometimes, when I'm alone, I can feel him staring at me. Murderously. And sometimes, the phone rings at night when nobody's around. I pick it up, and...

 

Counselor: It's okay Brandon, just take it easy. Take your time.

 

Brandon:...Okay...I pick up the phone, and a gravelly voice whispers, "Caaaaaadddsuuuuaaaaannnneeee...Caaaaaadddsuuuuaaaaannnneeee..." over and over again! It's driving me crazy, I can't take it!

 

Counselor: Brandon! It's okay, Brandon! He's not here! Jus- Just sit back down and relax. Everything's going to be okay. Just stay calm, and-

 

Brandon: And it's not just him! Terez, Suttree, Kael and everyone else are in on it too! It's a conspiracy, I tell you! Thank heavens I listened to Dida - he was telling the truth all along! I-I have to get out of here. I have to-

 

Counselor: I'm sorry, Brandon. But you're not going anywhere.

 

Brandon: Wait...I know that voice...You? No!

 

*Counselor takes off mask to reveal Luckers*

 

Luckers: *Balefire*

 

Actually, I don't use balefire anymore. The continuity issues are messed up as it is.

[SuperFade]

Actually, I don't use balefire anymore. The continuity issues are messed up as it is.

 

Don't try to deny it. We all know from RJ that it's fine if the amount of Balefire is very small. Poor Brandon, cut down in his prime.

[Suttree]

Actually, I don't use balefire anymore. The continuity issues are messed up as it is.

 

So good...