Im thinking Couladin was either a Darkfriend or a victim of Compulsion

[The Fisher King]

In the Big Showdown at the end of TSR, Lanfear mentions Couladin by name as one of the things intentionally planted to mess up Rand.

 

 

Fish

[TristanWebb]

You do t have to be a darkfriend to be an asshole.

[Muad Cheade]

You do t have to be a darkfriend to be an asshole.

Pretty much. Couladin was ambitious and Asmodean and the Dragon tattoos gave him the means to achieve that ambition.

[Durinax]

You do t have to be a darkfriend to be an asshole.

Pretty much. Couladin was ambitious and Asmodean and the Dragon tattoos gave him the means to achieve that ambition.

in fact one of the best efforts put forward by the forsaken in order to mess with the light

[condonmc]

Didnt Asmodeon put the dragons on couladin on orders from Lanfear?

[The Fisher King]

I of course understand that you can be a jerk (or crazy) without officially being a DF but Lanfear made it sound like Couladin was more then that....at least, that's how I read it. Always possible I read too much into it ;)

 

 

Fish

[TristanWebb]

The world is more interesting though if not everyone is a darkfriend. Either Couladin was a power hungry guy who wanted to rule the Aiel so much he trusted a wetlander (as he saw it) to put the most sacred markings of the Aiel culture on his arms, or he was a darkfriend who just did it because he was told to by the Forsaken. It doesn't matter which you believe at this point because it won't come up again in the story, but it makes it more interesting if there are multiple factions involved rather than just light vs dark. IMO anyway.

[bigdoug1971]

No. He's not a darkfriend. They have specifically said Elaida's not a darkfriend and Couladin is kind of the Elaida of the Aiel in my opinion. Power hungry with a chance to lead his people and the opportunity to take the reins.

[Terez]

You do t have to be a darkfriend to be an asshole.

Pretty much. Couladin was ambitious and Asmodean and the Dragon tattoos gave him the means to achieve that ambition.

 

Which is part of what makes him suspicious. The only scenario in which it isn't suspicious is if Asmodean did it while he was sleeping and he just woke up one day and believed it was a sign from heaven or something. Not every asshole has to be a Darkfriend, but I don't see any particular reason to believe Couladin wasn't. Elaida certainly isn't evidence of that. And Couladin was also seen conferring with Kadere.

 

Couladin and Kadere had their heads together for a long time, though they came to no agreement, since Couladin left empty-handed. Kadere must not have liked losing the trade; he stared after Couladin with those hawk's eyes, and a Jindo who wanted his attention had to speak three times before he was heard.

[Thorum]

Didnt Asmodeon put the dragons on couladin on orders from Lanfear?

 

I seem to remember Asmodean naming this as his one "good" deed, so he probably did this on his own.

 

Nice quote Terez, I missed that.

[TristanWebb]

You do t have to be a darkfriend to be an asshole.

Pretty much. Couladin was ambitious and Asmodean and the Dragon tattoos gave him the means to achieve that ambition.

 

Which is part of what makes him suspicious. The only scenario in which it isn't suspicious is if Asmodean did it while he was sleeping and he just woke up one day and believed it was a sign from heaven or something. Not every asshole has to be a Darkfriend, but I don't see any particular reason to believe Couladin wasn't. Elaida certainly isn't evidence of that. And Couladin was also seen conferring with Kadere.

 

Couladin and Kadere had their heads together for a long time, though they came to no agreement, since Couladin left empty-handed. Kadere must not have liked losing the trade; he stared after Couladin with those hawk's eyes, and a Jindo who wanted his attention had to speak three times before he was heard.

I take that as evidence against him being a darkfriend. Kadere is trying to convince Couladin that he can make him the car'a'carn, Couladin leaves pondering it. If he was a darkfriend he would just have been told to do it and been given the signs that the teller is high enough that he can't disobey.

[nolirion]

Well he was a Shaido , they didn't set the standard high, pretty much he was just a greedy ambitious little boy who dreamed to be the Carn'a'carn .

He is much like Suroth (who is a darkfriend ) but just as Sevana , while they bargained with forsaken I don't think they where aware of their status .

[Thorum]

Well he was a Shaido , they didn't set the standard high,

 

Which we know from their sworn enemies. Not a good source.

[Maleshub]

Couladin was a victim of Sevanna. She was the stronger will of the pair. And she had him tangled up in her narcissistic schemes pretty well (till he got himself killed). And my belief is that Sevanna wasn't a DF despite dealing with two Foresaken and a number of BA Aes Sedai.

 

Sometimes greed and blind ambition are just as bad as, if not worse than, treason.

[Terez]

You do t have to be a darkfriend to be an asshole.

Pretty much. Couladin was ambitious and Asmodean and the Dragon tattoos gave him the means to achieve that ambition.

 

Which is part of what makes him suspicious. The only scenario in which it isn't suspicious is if Asmodean did it while he was sleeping and he just woke up one day and believed it was a sign from heaven or something. Not every asshole has to be a Darkfriend, but I don't see any particular reason to believe Couladin wasn't. Elaida certainly isn't evidence of that. And Couladin was also seen conferring with Kadere.

 

Couladin and Kadere had their heads together for a long time, though they came to no agreement, since Couladin left empty-handed. Kadere must not have liked losing the trade; he stared after Couladin with those hawk's eyes, and a Jindo who wanted his attention had to speak three times before he was heard.

I take that as evidence against him being a darkfriend. Kadere is trying to convince Couladin that he can make him the car'a'carn, Couladin leaves pondering it. If he was a darkfriend he would just have been told to do it and been given the signs that the teller is high enough that he can't disobey.

 

None of that is implied in the text.

[bobarose]

couladin was just a complete bully/ass clown who was to stupid to serve anyone but himself.he died a fitting death.

[Halleck]

I've always thought Couladin was Compelled a little bit because of how he has the markings without going into Rhuidean. He said he went into Rhuidean and I always thought that he actually believed he did because Asmodean had given him the markings then Compelled him to believe that he went into Rhuidean without the Wise Ones' permission and got the markings. I mean otherwise Couladin would just wake up with the dragons on his arms and believe it was a miracle?

[nolirion]

Well he was a Shaido , they didn't set the standard high,

 

Which we know from their sworn enemies. Not a good source.

Well actually after reading much of Sevanna Pov , the deal with Samael , Elaida's envoy , the killing of Desaine , taking Gai'shain from non-Ji'E'Toh , Malden , I stand by what I said earlier

[SuperFade]

You do t have to be a darkfriend to be an asshole.

Pretty much. Couladin was ambitious and Asmodean and the Dragon tattoos gave him the means to achieve that ambition.

 

Which is part of what makes him suspicious. The only scenario in which it isn't suspicious is if Asmodean did it while he was sleeping and he just woke up one day and believed it was a sign from heaven or something. Not every asshole has to be a Darkfriend, but I don't see any particular reason to believe Couladin wasn't. Elaida certainly isn't evidence of that. And Couladin was also seen conferring with Kadere.

 

Couladin and Kadere had their heads together for a long time, though they came to no agreement, since Couladin left empty-handed. Kadere must not have liked losing the trade; he stared after Couladin with those hawk's eyes, and a Jindo who wanted his attention had to speak three times before he was heard.

I take that as evidence against him being a darkfriend. Kadere is trying to convince Couladin that he can make him the car'a'carn, Couladin leaves pondering it. If he was a darkfriend he would just have been told to do it and been given the signs that the teller is high enough that he can't disobey.

 

Basically this. Kadere was probably trying a similar trick to the one he tried to use on Rand.

[Shig]

Something i didnt see and think should be mentioned. If Couladin wasn't compelled to either just think he'd woken up with them on his arms(therefore having forgotten Asmodean channeling at/around him) or as an alternative, being compelled to beleive he'd gone down to the Rhuidean and had gotten the dragons the traditonal way, then he would have known that a wetlander male magically placed dragons on his forearms. It isnt too far of a leap therefore for Couladin to realise that the man that placed them on his arms could channel. Would an Aiel(albeit a bad example of what most people love about the aiel, myself included) have dealings with a male channeler other than the Car'a'carn? Personally, i can't see him tolerating that sort of interaction, which makes me think he may have been a darkfriend given the chance to gain prestige amongst the Chosen, and if this is true, very likely order to claim the title of the Car'a'carn...or he was insane.

 

Another thing, regardless of whether or not couladin was a darkfriend, i cant see why Asmodean wouldnt have revealed to Couladin the true history of the Aiel, something that could have allowed Couladin to basically assume the role of Car'a'carn, and therefore deprived Rand of the awesome armies and support of the Aiel...if this had happened it would have been the greatest thing any of the incompetent chosen had done in the current WoT age. Yes i know that the aiel had to be written in as Rands armies by jordan, and this is definitely not a criticism of his work, but it makes the chosen look even more incompetent because that sort of action isnt a particularly difficult thing to plan out nor would it have been difficult to do.

[shortkut]

Asmodean could have revealed the aiel history, but how would he know that was part of what happened in Rhuidean?

[XoMeltdownoX]

Asmodean could have revealed the aiel history, but how would he know that was part of what happened in Rhuidean?

True. Would he even be believed?

[Sharaman]

Only way would be if Asmo was of Aiel ancestry himself and somehow the Rhuidean columns worked for him - going forward as with Avi.

[Shig]

Hmmm the idea that asmodean wouldn't know what the ter'angreal did and therefore wouldn't know what to tell couladin does pose a conundrum. It could have been possible that he recognized the ter'angreal's function, either due to his experience during the age of legend(although he was just a musician during that time) or maybe he had a talent with objects of the power similar to what elayne and avid have or there may even be a weave that can divine the purpose of objects of the power. Too many unknowns to really pinpoint what really happened. But honestly, if he could figure out the purpose of the ter'angreal then it probably wouldn't be too difficult for him to figure out why the aiel believe that rhuidean is such a special place and maybe even why many of the aiel who go down to rhuidean do not come out...just about everyone from randland know that the aiel have a proud warrior history(atleast for the last 3000 or so years).

[Treebeard]

if there are Darkfriends among the Aiel it's not unbelievable that one of them is a Wise One ( Sorilea ?) and she could have told Asmodean all he wanted to know