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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Shig

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  1. Plus...isnt the agelessness sort of a bad thing, at the very least in the AoL, it marked an Aes Sedai who had sworn something through the use of an oath rod and the one power(we see that Semirhage was going to be forced with the oath rod to never heal/never torture people, can't remember if it was both or just the torture, didnt get an exact answer there). So in the AoL having the 'oath-rod Agelessness' would indicate your possibly a serious criminal who'd been sentenced to having their normally hugely long life, halved. I'd assume that the healthy agelessness, displayed by channelers not limited by the oath rod is just normal age related deterioration being slowed pretty massively(apart from maybe hair colour). From tEotW prologue, we get a bit of a physical description of Lews Therin, although he isnt looking too fantastic at the time(likely due to the serious stress of being the man in charge of the fight against the shadow and of course the rotting due to corruption by the taint), Lews Therin was looking good, and around his 40's (he would have been approximately 40, wasnt he?, opinions?)up until the War of Shadows, at which point he was approximately 400 years old. Give it another 400 years and he may have ended up looking like a really sprightly grandpa In regards to whether or not he had it all planned out, i think he did, the idea that they flick between looking different ages is likely dependent upon the fact that they look young, in contrast to the wisdom and intelligence in their eyes, and the way in which they carry themselves with dignity, and talk with experience. The two types, normal channeler aging and third age Aes Sedai agelessness are two different things, although the normal aging has some small similarities to abnormal agelessness. Oath Rod agelessness: Smooth face, feels as though the excess skin is being pulled back and pinched at the back of their head, no normal signs of aging(eg. wrinkles, skin marring, age spots etc). Continues for the most part up until they die(at half their potential life span) Normal Agelessnes: Normal signs of aging, but develop at a much much later age. Instead of starting to get real wrinkles and the like at 30(or so) it starts at say...300 years old?
  2. It's likely this has been pointed out before(because of the number of these debates) but stretching forth 'his hand' may refer to Shaidar Haran having to do something, eg confronting Rand, or possibly fulfilling some other role which leads to the destruction of the seals and the DO's prison. Has it been decided upon whether any of this prophecy's points have occured already or if they are yet to happen? Obviously the seals are weakening, and other than being integrated with Lews Therin, Rand is exhausted(physically, mentally, probably emotionally).
  3. Possibly the funniest thing i've read in a few days, the way it was written seems so matter of fact(and of course laced with sarcasm). Personally, like a few others, I've got a thing for lanfear(and when she was pretending to be selene) and i dig min's cheekiness, very endearing. I've always liked the feel and tone we've been shown from amys as well, underneath being one of the top wise one's i bet she's a cool chick.
  4. A slightly less...pleasant...idea might be that in the age before the AoL, the Aiel were a race who were enslaved outside of their home country/nation. When the Wheel of time ticked over to the next, Utopian age, instead of being considered slaves, they were a race of servants who took their position as an honor and what not. I consider this a major contender for the most viable option due to the nature of the aiel during the AoL and the aiel we know today. In both cases, for the most part Aiel only married and/or had children with other aiel. Rand's ancestor that he 'experienced' in Rhuidean was marrying another Aiel, and i cant really imagine a servant to an Aes Sedai marrying a normal citizen during the AoL, therefore limiting the mixing of genetics, meaning that all aiel look alike because they share the same very very distant ancestors. Same thing goes for the aiel today, they marry and have children within Aiel society, and so there's no real mixing of genes. We could use the people of the two rivers(specifically Emond's Field) as an example of a similar occurrence. Aside from Rand, the vast majority of two rivers people share the physical characteristics of having dark brownish hair and dark eyes, as people from emonds field will often marry a person from within their village, and occasionally from other villages within the two rivers district.
  5. Aram threw himself whole heartedly into learning the sword, the idea of vengeance and such pushing him forwards. Aram appears to have learnt nothing else, other than to obsess on people in a crazy and pretty creepy fashion. He had nothing but training and following perrin around to do, so its to be expected that after several months/ 1-2 years he'd develop some serious skills. Another point is that he was training with a blademaster[tam] meaning he'd likely be better taught than an average soldier, as tam has the skills, and from what we know of his personality he'd make an excellent trainer( solid, dedicated, hard working etc etc [very similar to lan, another awesome teacher]) Finally, we don't know whether aram actually has any aiel blood. We know that tinkers will accept people if theyre willing to embrace and follow the way of the leaf, so after 3000 years, its likely that the travelling people are more non-aiel than aiel.
  6. 1) Rand 1 1/2 or 2) Demandred 3) Moridin 4) Lanfear(maybe cyndane at this level too) 5) Alivia 6) Logain 7+) Everything starts getting a bit vague, Taim, Nyv, etc are likely around similar levels. The reasons i put both Rand and Demandred above moridin(ishammael) is because both Lews Therin and Demandred were generals and War leaders during the War of Power...where as ishammael was not a massive fighter(from the info we have). I have no doubts that moridin has unbelievable skills with the One power(although he primarily utilizes the True Power nowadays), and he is basically on the same level as Rand in regards to strength, he was not a field general, nor a fighter really, where as when the War of Power started getting serious, Lews Therin's and Demandred's business became War( although it may be more appropriate to put moridin and demandred on the same level). I'd like to use the example of Aginor, who from what we have heard, was second only to Lews Therin and Ishammael in power, and although he could form what we can consider 'combat weaves' his strengths and interests were in different areas, eg. mashing together human and animal DNA, and i have no doubt that if it had ever come to blows between say demandred and aginor...or maybe even sammael and aginor, aginor would be the party who would be destroyed, although he may take a few pieces of his opponent with him. It seems like ones abilities with the one power relies heavily on their personality(im sure this point has been made before, but it helps explain some of the characters abilities, and therefore combat abilities). A few examples that really highlight my point: 1) Rand- Straight forward(primarily) somewhat aggressive, commanding, strong willed, brave---- Combat oriented. 2) Nyv- Caring, motherly, passionate, loving, wants to help everyone, forceful-----Healing oriented( and although shes massively strong allowing her to often overcome others, she really isnt a fighter and her place in a battle should always be healing rather than anywhere near combat. 3) Egwene- Very similar to Rand---- Combat oriented(and useless at healing...like rand). Female equivalent of Rand in many ways 4) Moghedion- Sly, fearful, selfish, cruel, manipulative etc---- Pretty useless at everything, but has a knack for compulsion.
  7. So...its completely impossible for another escape rout to be used? I don't doubt that the destruction of the portal was significant in the severance of the bond, but could it have been possible for moiraine to escape? Although the portal was destroyed, wasn't she technically still protected by the 'treaty's' of that land? Couldn't she have requested a way out in a similar fashion to how mat did? Im getting the feeling mat or rand ponders this, and comes to some sort of conclusion, but from what we know of that land it seems like she should have maybe been able to escape
  8. Excellent point, I'd completely forgotten that she went through the gateway in Tear. Maybe someone who has really thought about it or read those chapters recently could argue that it might be because the portal was destroyed? Or maybe she intentionally destroyed the bond, damaging lan, and making it appear as though she was dead to prevent lan, rand, mat, egwene etc attempting a rescue, she is easily selfless and brave enough to do so. As we know, moiraine's purpose for 20 odd years has been to find the Dragon reborn and make sure he makes it to TG.
  9. Yeh its likely those ashamen and aes sedai have been, can't remember the exact quote, but it was commented they weren't themselves anymore, or something along those lines. Just as a side/off topic question: Has the exact mechanism been described before? We know 13 channelers, channel through 13 fades, but do we know if the dark one's taint is placed in the victim, or if a dark one cable(that we see on ishammael, asmodean etc) is latched onto the victim? Might help us figure out what exactly happens to the victim if we knew what actually happened.
  10. Agree with everything said, especially how they make every other horrible group of people look amazing. The only real thing that tied them into the novels was the bowl of winds, for the rest they were left drifting at sea :P They were almost a prop used to allow the other character's stories to be developed and fleshed out eg. mat, nyv, elayne, went to ebou dar to fix the weather, and needed the sea folk's weather expertise...but in the process those 3 primary characters grew massively in experience, came into themselves more, developed new skills and abilities, and all in all, became a lot closer to what they need to be to deal with the last battle. Who knows, maybe the sea folk will play a major part in the last battle...but it doesnt seem likely
  11. Alright, point conceded. I wasn't aware RJ intended the...sort of sub-plot, to be considered rape, i definitely agree that the first scene of the whole thing was a bit iffy, but from there i always envisioned the relationship being a little different, and having changed to more of a lovers type thing...maybe i should go back and reread it.
  12. I still don't understand why people think he was raped...if he had been truly unwilling, for example if he had been screaming stop or crying in a corner in disgust at tylin, cutting himself because of self loathing and what not, then hell yeh, id be on the rape train as well. Instead, his comments were along the lines of 'You can't do this' and 'Im the one who does the chasing' etc etc stuff along those lines. He was uncomfortable with the situation, because in his mine, he's meant to be the hound dog, instead she's the cougar cracking on to the charming younger fellar. Mat is a young guy, pretty good with women, decently attractive(from his description and women's responses to him) who was still pretty much limited by his stuffy Two Rivers upbringing, where men are chivalrous and premarital 'relations' in any form are prohibited. He was uncomfortable in a new situation, in which the tables were turned. We even see other examples of his inexperience with women hitting on him, i'm pretty sure some of the maids or cooks or something in ebou dar comment on his nice ass, and he was extremely uncomfortable in that foreign situation as well. In regards to the Stockholm Syndrome part, lets compare it to the hopefully non-fiction examples wikipedia gives us, Mary McElroy was kidnapped and held for ransom in 1933 and released by her captors unharmed. When three of her four captors were apprehended and given maximum sentences (including one death sentence), McElroy defended them. According to reports, she suffered from feelings of guilt concerning the case which compromised her mental and physical health. She took her own life in 1940. Patty Hearst was kidnapped by the Symbionese Liberation Army in 1974. After two months in captivity, she actively took part in a robbery they were orchestrating. Her unsuccessful legal defense claimed that she suffered from Stockholm Syndrome and was coerced into aiding the SLA. She was convicted and imprisoned for her actions in the robbery, though her sentence was commuted in February 1979 by President Jimmy Carter, and she received a Presidential pardon from President Bill Clinton on January 20, 2001 (among his last official acts before leaving office). The message i'd like to get through is: 1) Seriously think about it, if when Tylin had had mat at knife point the first time, if he had started crying, and saying 'please i can't do this with you' she would have stopped. 2) Mat realizing he actually liked tylin( she probably opened him up to really dealing with women, not just cracking onto them at bars, and he very likely realized he liked her personality) does not mean he has stockholm syndrome.
  13. Using the DSM-IV, and going of the layout sleepinghour put down for us, I'd definitely agree with NPD for Lanfear and SPD for Semirhage. For Graendal maybe add in Histrionic Personality Disorder. Mat, definitely not Stockholm Syndrome, however it would apply to nearly all 'broken' damane. Rand's diagnosis is pretty accurate, he may suffer from what we consider Dissociative Identity Disorder, better known as Multiple Personality Disorder. I say this because at times what we can consider the 'Lews Therin' entity will take control of Rand's body. His diagnosis of Schizophrenia is dependent on whether or not you believe that DID is actually a condition, or just severe Schizophrenia. Nyn, Egwene and Logain...doubt they could be diagnosed with any actually mental health issues. Nyn's annoying 'ticks' are primarily a coping mechanism, used to stop her from snapping at someone prematurely. Egwene, i think she just feels she knows best...but i can name a bunch of people i know like that...they're jerks but not suffering from mental health issues. Furthermore, if you compare her supposed PTSD to Rand's, he suffers from flashbacks, dreaming about the issue, and has some waking experiences, like flashing back to feeling physically trapped in the box. If Egwene has PTSD, it's pretty minor. As a side note, fantastic idea for a topic and discussion.
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