Posts for Points system (Strength & Skill)

[Elgee]

There seems to be a general lack of motivation to RP, and to report said RPs so our Heads don't have to hunt them down for reports, which has had me wracking my brains for a solution. We also have this weird system where people get a set Strength & Skill, and can basically RP at full S&S from the day they start. It all gave me the following idea (which is still the prototype - please feel free to wade in with suggestions etc):

 

People get given their end result Strength & Skill just like now, but they don't start off with that - they must work towards it.

 

They start out with zero (or something), and get 1 point per every 10 RP posts (minimum 250 words). 1st point goes to Strength, 2nd to Skill, 3rd to Strength, 4th to Skill, rinse & repeat.

 

Once they've reached 1/3 of their S&S, they get promoted to Accepted, and once they have reached 2/3, they get raised to AS.

 

This leaves them something to do as AS too, plus there's the 3 bonus points on Skill. They could do 20 posts for a point, or something like that.

 

Obviously people with higher given S&S will take longer to reach it, but to me that is just the price to pay for it.

 

To make it fair, I would say that everyone who's now AS should take some drop in S&S as well, so they also have to work towards getting to their full potential. People who've been RPing their character for donkey's years (and still are), like Lor, can be exempted.

 

Also, people will have to report their own posts every month, let's say by the 5th. If you haven't reported your posts made in April by May the fifth, you don't get the points for them - plain and simple.

 

What do you guys think?

Edited May 12, 2012 by Elgee

[Mystica]

in principle I'm in favor of this system, but there are quite a number of pitfalls I'd like to point out from experience with a similar system that failed before on other sites.

 

Activity:

People in general are already groaning about the effort needed to get raised. Having them post 10 posts for 1 point from the start will not motivate them to RP more I fear. I'm afraid it will only serve to drive them to less RPing instead. Judging it 'too much hassle' as they already do now under the current system. I know we in staff all are of a mind that 'when you join an RP community you do so in order to RP'. I'm very much on board with that myself. But that doesn't change the reality of the fact that we can't force anyone to RP and if they judge things to be too rigid, they'll go elsewhere. As they have done, are doing and will undoubtedly continue to do no matter what system we put up.

 

Raising:

Does this system replace the current reqs system? Or is it meant to be added to it?

 

Reporting:

I'm very much in favor of the players reporting their own stuff. Staff has enough to do as it is already and we shouldn't be chasing their posts to find whatever RP's they're doing. However, I do feel that the rule of 'report before this day or your RP doesn't count' might be a bit too harsh. After all, if they've put in the time for the RP it should count. What could be set in rule is that their character can't RP with their new status untill the required points have been reported. This will force them to report their RP's if they want to use their higher S&S in future RP's. This way the responsibility of their character's progress IC is put in their own hands.

 

Demoting existing Aes Sedai pointwise:

I would make a distinction between those that have been RPing in the past and those that haven't. Going by the number of years a person has been around doesn't seem very fair to me compared to newer members that maybe RP a lot more in comparison. Therefore I'd suggest making it based on how much RPing they've done to date. And perhaps also look at the OOC contributions they've made over the years. That way, contributing members are not penalized by it but rewarded for their contributions instead. I'm thinking about people like Kathleen, Rasheta, Keyholder and so on. They may not be as old as Lor, but they certainly contribute in an equal manner and deserve their maximum stats in my view. There may be more, of course, but I don't know everyone. They're jsut the ones I know of. It would be up to Elgee and her staff to make that decision on a case by case basis.

[Kathleen]

Honestly Myst hit everything I was thinking.

 

I like it in theory, but I think it will be taken as 'more work' and therefore be more of a deterent than the motivation/boost for activity it's meant to be.

 

It bothers me that people complain about having to rp to rp, I mean that's what they sign up for and shoul know it, but having restrictions and hoops to jump through is what leads a lot people to stop rping. And 10 posts for one point will most likely be looked down at from new members. And having to loose ability and essentially have more requirements for those members how did already finish requirements may drive some away.

 

I wish I has suggestions on what may work, because I'm all for upping activity, but I really don't know.

[Nyanna al'Meara]

It sounds intruiging...honestly I'm not registering everything right now because my brain's been doing rl overtime lol, but it sounds interesting! I agree that 10 posts per 1 point may rather discourage people than spur them to greater effort (huh, who am I to talk anyway >.>)

So would we still end up with our set S&S levels, or gain more as we rp more?? (sorry if that was written somewhere) *zombie*

 

I wish I has suggestions on what may work, because I'm all for upping activity, but I really don't know.

This :S ...sowwy

[keyholder21]

I am about to drop, so I will get to this with my thoughts in the morning Elgs. Just wanted to let you know that I saw it and am not ignoring heh.

[Elgee]

Let me put this another way:

 

People want to come here to RP, and they don't want to be put through hoops. So, they can RP to their heart's content - whatever they want, really, bearing in mind their OP S&S at the time. As a bonus, for every X amount of posts that they report having RPed, we'll give them a cookie (aka their Strength or Skill goes up).

[Kathleen]

Ok, so the other Requirements would be void?

 

Would there be any required types of posts for their progression? Meet the MoN? Classes? Or free for all till you hit the 1/3, 2/3 and full score for raising?

[Elgee]

Ok, so the other Requirements would be void?

 

That's what I'm leaning towards.

 

Would there be any required types of posts for their progression? Meet the MoN? Classes? Or free for all till you hit the 1/3, 2/3 and full score for raising?

 

This is all still up for debate, and Ideally I would prefer that Ama has the final word on it, but this is what could be: They can do any type of post they want. We'll have the list of options for them, so they have an idea of the possibilities, but basically they can do any RPs they want. Maybe Classes would count as double points or more?

[Kathleen]

Still keeping the rules that are in place now, the ones like Novices can't leave tower grounds. Accepted can go to the TV city during freedays. Aceepteds can't train in the Yard?

 

I do like keeping a list of rp ideas, as I know a lot my trouble with rping (shut up, yes I have trouble with rping haha) is lack of ideas for rps.

 

Ok, I suck at math, like a lot. So can we work out the math to figure out how many rps (or posts) you need to do to reach these goals if its 10 posts for one point how many posts are needed to reach 1/3 (novice), 2/3 (Accepted) and 3/3 (full sister)? Say with a strength and skill of 30/30 or something easy yet realistic to get.

 

I would really like to know the answer to this, but can't figure out how to do the math for it. *curses her math teachers for not catching her up on fractions when she missed the section due to death in the family*

[keyholder21]

I can definitely understand wanting to change something in order to inspire more people to rp - or to give them more freedom in what they do - but I'm not sure this is the way to do so.

 

With 1 point per 10 rp posts, that would be 100 posts just to get 10 points. That would be 5 in each if split. That seems like a LOT of work to me, and they are already complaining about having to work (aka write) to get their levels. I certainly don't think they should just get to be Aes Sedai right off, but while the proposed system would allow more freedom, I am afraid it would drive people away since it seems like more work and we certainly don't want to do that!

 

Perhaps we could merge the current system and your proposed new system?

 

Like to move from novice to Accepted:

 

MoN Rp, 2 of whatever, then Arches (all required to be at least 250 words) and you hit 10 S&S

 

Accepted to AS:

 

3 random (whatever), AS test (all required to be 500 words) and you hit 20 S&S

 

As Aes Sedai:

 

You can remain 20 S&S and RP just fine, OR if you want to be stronger, you can rp and submit your posts to go up in the levels (maybe you get a point to put in either for every 5 rp posts?)

 

Just trying to think of something to keep people here and busy, but also not scare them away :). I want to grow our RP section too!

[Elgee]

Still keeping the rules that are in place now, the ones like Novices can't leave tower grounds. Accepted can go to the TV city during freedays. Aceepteds can't train in the Yard?

 

Yeppers

 

I do like keeping a list of rp ideas, as I know a lot my trouble with rping (shut up, yes I have trouble with rping haha) is lack of ideas for rps.

 

Suuuuuure you do! *gigglesnorts*

But yeah that's what it would be there for - people can use them as is, or use them as an idea sparker.

 

So can we work out the math to figure out how many rps (or posts) you need to do to reach these goals if its 10 posts for one point how many posts are needed to reach 1/3 (novice), 2/3 (Accepted) and 3/3 (full sister)? Say with a strength and skill of 30/30 or something easy yet realistic to get.

 

The 10 posts per point was just a starting point to work from, as 10 is the easiest number to work with. I hadn't actually worked out the maths myself, as I had to write the idea down asap or it would dribble right out of my sieve for brain. Ems did the maths for us in her post (thank you, darling!) so I'll move over to that one now.

[Elgee]

With 1 point per 10 rp posts, that would be 100 posts just to get 10 points. That would be 5 in each if split. That seems like a LOT of work to me, and they are already complaining about having to work (aka write) to get their levels. I certainly don't think they should just get to be Aes Sedai right off, but while the proposed system would allow more freedom, I am afraid it would drive people away since it seems like more work and we certainly don't want to do that!

 

Thank you for doing the maths for me, darling! *grins and snuggles*

 

Just remember, the 10 posts was just a number snatched out of the air. Looking at your breakdown, I can see that it's definitely too much, especially for the newbies.

 

As Aes Sedai:

 

You can remain 20 S&S and RP just fine, OR if you want to be stronger, you can rp and submit your posts to go up in the levels (maybe you get a point to put in either for every 5 rp posts?)

 

Great ideas, Em! That got me thinking, and it might be fairer to the aspies to have everyone do the same amount of posts to be raised. We could use the lowest possible OP score as our base number, ie novices have to reach 1/3 of that to be raised to Accepted, and they in turn have to reach 2/3 of that to be raised to Aes Sedai. Thereafter, those with higher given OP S&S need to do more posts in order to reach it than those with lower given scores. It's a very fair trade-off, I think - much fairer than the current one.

 

Let's look at some info about Strength:

 

The average (mean) One Power Strength score for women is set at 28. Female scores range from 22-34.

 

22 wont divide by 3 unfortunately (comes to 7.333333), but we can use either 7s or 8s for our thirds. 8s work better for me, because that can be divided by 4 and many of the req threads require 4 posts. That would give a minimum OP Strength + Skill of 8 (each) to reach Accepted, and then 16 to reach Aes Sedai.

 

Again, just numbers to start off from - we can tweak them: Let's say aspies can get 1 point per post. That means they have to do 16 posts (which works out to 4 RPs, by the old system of 4 posts per RP) to reach 8 Strength + 8 Skill. Rinse and repeat for Accepted to get to 16 Strength + 16 Skill.

 

I think that is basically the same amount of RPing as they have to do now, but in a more free form manner. Also, they get instant reward for work done. I think a lot of the complaints were along the lines of "but WHY do I have to do those RPs? There's no point to them - they don't achieve anything". This way, there IS a point ... literally ... lol ... I don't now if this makes sense to anyone else as it does in my head.

 

What it comes down to is that when they arrive, they can't Channel. With each post they do, they gain Strength and Skill, and after 3 or 4 posts they can start Channeling. With each point gained, new Weaves open up to them (same goes for AS). Maybe this will generate some excitement? Working towards something tangible, like being able to set that Trolloc on fire. It's a natural progression much more akin to what happens in the Books.

 

 

I need to get to work now but I'll get to some of the excellent points Myst made later.

[Kathleen]

The other concern I have is in getting to AS and still having to work for it. You would har I be wary if playing maintimiline even if you are raised cause what if you want to made a weave that you should be able to do but can't cause your s/s aren't where they would be in main twine line?

 

Coming from someone in the green shah where channelling is high and hitting Aes Sedai doesn't mean making it to te top, I have to admit that it was a little hard to be raised to aes sedai and know there are still more requirments, I can't really enjoy the ceremony like I would have had I finished reached that goal as the final. There is something about more work after reaching the top that takes away from getting there.

 

But I do like the attempt at instant gratification that do many members seems to want and in trying to draw interest for full members to be active.

[Amadine]

Here and reading.... but have a massive headache and this is blowing my mind LOL

 

I agree we need something to work towards, and giving more room for creativity in RPs can only be a good thing. I also agree that players must submit their posts - it's a habit we can instill from the beginning - if newbies wanted their posts approved for points/raising/whatever they must submit them - preferably for me in one thread per month with one post per person (makes it easier to check them).

 

I hope i am making sense but i do need to go take some painkillers now :/

[Elgee]

You're making perfect sense, Ama, and yes if they want the credit then they must post it One thread per person should be fine - they can keep that throughout their "career" and their Heads can check them later for reports. One thread with each person posting in there once a month should work perfectly. This way they can edit their own post if they want to update as they post RPs. Should we get too many people, we can always split it in some way.

 

Kat love ... were you on medication when you wrote that post? o_O ... lol

Edited May 18, 2012 by Elgee
fix stupidity ... fix!

[Kathleen]

actually i was on meds and my phone <.<

[Elgee]

But that doesn't change the reality of the fact that we can't force anyone to RP and if they judge things to be too rigid, they'll go elsewhere. As they have done, are doing and will undoubtedly continue to do no matter what system we put up.

 

Exactly - no matter what the system is, some people won't like it, so we might as well have a logical but not too onerous one that gives rewards even after you've gained the Shawl :P

 

Bear in mind that most people don't use huge Weaves in their RPs all that often. When is the last time any here have done so, apart from the Greens? It therefore shouldn't actually impede anyone not to yet have their full Strength.

 

Reporting:

I'm very much in favor of the players reporting their own stuff. Staff has enough to do as it is already and we shouldn't be chasing their posts to find whatever RP's they're doing. However, I do feel that the rule of 'report before this day or your RP doesn't count' might be a bit too harsh. After all, if they've put in the time for the RP it should count. What could be set in rule is that their character can't RP with their new status untill the required points have been reported. This will force them to report their RP's if they want to use their higher S&S in future RP's. This way the responsibility of their character's progress IC is put in their own hands.

 

"After all, if they've put in the time for the RP it should count." - all they have to do to make it count, is take a few minutes to report it. If it means that much to them, they'll do it. If it doesn't mean that much to them, then they shouldn't mind not getting it. The onus is on them.

 

Half of the reason for thinking of implementing this system is because the Search function is FUBAR, and Shen doesn't know when or even if it's ever going to be fixed. I must get my report to the admins by the 10th, therefore you guys must get yours to me by the 8th, and you can't do yours properly without your members reporting their own RPs. You need at least a few days to do that, so the 5th. It serves absolutely no purpose to have them report it 7 months later.

 

Demoting existing Aes Sedai pointwise:

I would make a distinction between those that have been RPing in the past and those that haven't. Going by the number of years a person has been around doesn't seem very fair to me compared to newer members that maybe RP a lot more in comparison. Therefore I'd suggest making it based on how much RPing they've done to date. And perhaps also look at the OOC contributions they've made over the years. That way, contributing members are not penalized by it but rewarded for their contributions instead. I'm thinking about people like Kathleen, Rasheta, Keyholder and so on. They may not be as old as Lor, but they certainly contribute in an equal manner and deserve their maximum stats in my view. There may be more, of course, but I don't know everyone. They're jsut the ones I know of. It would be up to Elgee and her staff to make that decision on a case by case basis.

 

Very good point, Myst *nods*

 

I can think of 2 alternatives (suggestions welcome):

 

a) Any full AS who is on the ACTIVE list in the next report (aka RPed during March, April or May) retain their full S&S

b) Any full AS who is on the ACTIVE or INACTIVE list in the next report (aka RPed during the past 12 months) retain their full S&S

 

Re Aspies: we could say the same, or that if they get themselves raised to the shawl before the end of May they will get their full S&S, otherwise they fall under the new system. Maybe this will inspire them to get raised. If Ama feels end of May is too soon, we can make it end of June.

[Rasheta Ardashir]

I have to get to class soon, I've read over all this thread, but the only thing I can think of is that when I got here things were pretty simple. All I had to do, in order, was Bio, Arches, Oaths, done! I was Aes Sedai. Since that seems to be where everyone wants to get it was pretty easy to make it to the highest level with nill stress.

 

 

I like the idea of reporting your Rps, since we do a lot around the boards as it is. But that's all my thoughts at the moment because of class and two days of lack of sleep. I'll be back with more later. :)

[Elgee]

I edited my post 15 (answer to Ama) - was being stupid when I typed the original.

[Amadine]

*giggles @ Elgs* i think the end of May is a little too soon - June would be better - we have several getting close to Accepted and they are motivated - they may prefer to get through their Accepted reqs before this kicks in.

[Elgee]

And to expand further on my own stupidity ... I never mentioned the following:

 

I would very much like there to be some further rewards for posts, after the full S&S has been reached. Obviously there's the 3 extra skill points that can be earned, but then we should try to find other rewards.

 

As for the 3 extra skill points - that should take more posts to get than just reaching your full S&S did. 10 posts seems too little for a point, but 50 posts seems a bit much.

 

We're on a board now where all the WT members have access to, so I'd like everyone's opinion on this - what kind of rewards would you guys like to get for posts? Would this idea interest you at all, in fact?

Edited May 18, 2012 by Elgee

[Quibby]

I like the idea, and I like the exception that was mentioned for the end-of-June deadline. Otherwise, the idea feels more like a punishment for oldbies than anything else.

 

Another motivation might be to restrict access to some of the higher-level weaves, like Traveling. That way going from place to place can count towards those RPs required for point raising.

[poetstorm]

I can definitely understand wanting to change something in order to inspire more people to rp - or to give them more freedom in what they do - but I'm not sure this is the way to do so.

 

With 1 point per 10 rp posts, that would be 100 posts just to get 10 points. That would be 5 in each if split. That seems like a LOT of work to me, and they are already complaining about having to work (aka write) to get their levels. I certainly don't think they should just get to be Aes Sedai right off, but while the proposed system would allow more freedom, I am afraid it would drive people away since it seems like more work and we certainly don't want to do that!

 

Perhaps we could merge the current system and your proposed new system?

 

Like to move from novice to Accepted:

 

MoN Rp, 2 of whatever, then Arches (all required to be at least 250 words) and you hit 10 S&S

 

Accepted to AS:

 

3 random (whatever), AS test (all required to be 500 words) and you hit 20 S&S

 

As Aes Sedai:

 

You can remain 20 S&S and RP just fine, OR if you want to be stronger, you can rp and submit your posts to go up in the levels (maybe you get a point to put in either for every 5 rp posts?)

 

Just trying to think of something to keep people here and busy, but also not scare them away :). I want to grow our RP section too!

 

 

I like Em’s idea a lot. The current RP reqs for a novice to be raised to Aes Sedai would actually meet the new proposed post requirement and some I believe. So maybe nothing new needs to be done about getting novices raises to sisters. I tend to think these reqs should be kept the same as it is, even if it’s more post-wise because as a new character is being introduced, all the posting and RPing will help people get to know the character they’ve created. It’s very useful.

 

The real question is how to keep current Aes Sedai characters RPing. So perhaps we could go with Em’s suggestion and once someone reaches AS status they all start at a certain OP level and work their way up by RPing instead of a random toss of the dice so to speak.

 

Although I worry about veteran RPers if we were to even the board and set everyone at say 20. Maybe those who have been around and constantly active could request to be grandfathered in on a case by case basis? I’d hate to start people getting hard feelings or being discouraged.

 

And I also agree with Kathleen, lack of ideas is a big challenge. Maybe there could be a special reward system for people that not only RP but come up with ideas. Perhaps starting an RP could count more towards advancement than participating?