Unasked Questions about Verin

[Edynol]

I agree with Suttree, again(What the hell? Twice in once day? What's goin on here!?) Verin is definitely one of the good guys. She pretty much single handedly broke the Back Ajah via Egwene.

[rand4747]

She likely did alot of evil but had to do it in order to destroy the black ajah as she intended, her actions may tip the balance for the world. At the least she knew about the happening of the black ajah anyway.

[csnyder]

yoniy0 - Considering Tarna Feir, the fact that she was turned via 13x13 does not immediately put her out of the BA. Verin's Purge may have changed protocol as other wishy-washy BA probably exist making it necessary to turn all of those in addition to those who follow the Light; however, I do recognize this as a weakpoint to my theory (and Elaida did bring her in...).

 

rand4747 - I agree. Some evil must be necessary for the greater good, a usual means versus objective issue. I believe those red-wax-sealed-letters were written for the greater good, yet makes me wonder whether other red-wax-sealed-letters were sent to evil people considerably out of the loop...Perhaps, Verin is not the only one wanting to return to the Light.

 

Why would Alanna have gone to Arafel at the behest of Verin? Placing oneself in front of an enemy horde while being a considerable weakness to Rand's well-being is immediately suspicious.

 

Edynol - While not downplaying Verin's efforts whatsoever, the in-Tower AS accidentally urged by Elaida assisted in the Purge as well. However, the BA was aware of the Sitters gathering, and this may have been what alerted those within the Tower to flee. Or maybe, the Seanchan attack was urged by the Dark and the BA were requested to flee after/during this time.

[Edynol]

Well yeah, during the Split Elaida's sitters were the forerunners of purging the BA, but remember there were a bunch of them with the Salies, which the sitters had nothing to do with. Outing Sheriam was a HUGE blow to them, and without Verin, no would have ever even suspected her.

[RandA lThor]

Verin kind of was the main and almost only reason the black ajah is almost eliminated.

[Edynol]

Yep! Just what I was saying. lol. Not the only reason, but definitely the main and largest reason.

[yoniy0]

Almost eliminated? About half were executed. The rest, some 120 sisters, fled.

[Edynol]

120 is a good deal less than half, I think.

[RandA lThor]

Sorry, i meant eliminated in the WT and no longer doing secret things that are breaking the tower.

[Aulduron]

Can a person go into a mirror world and find a version of themself, who took a different path?

[Edynol]

I'm not sure. I think it would be like the Angreal that tests for Accepted, they ecnompass the body, but wouldn't be able to do anything but observe or something. Not sure though. That's something only BS can answer I think.

[RandA lThor]

yes, I think that they can.

[RandA lThor]

You can use the Portal Stones like they did in TGH. The only thing was in that world, everyone died. in another, Rand might be alive.

[Edynol]

That brings up another question...Since TAR is the center of all worlds, could you meet another version of yourself there? I dunno, I think it would combine them. Cause they could exist seperately in other worlds, they would be able to in TAR. People like Moridin or something could go grab a bunch of dopplegangers of himself and other forsaken and bring them to one world and mess things up. I dunno.

[baalsmistress]

Can a person go into a mirror world and find a version of themself, who took a different path?

I'm not sure. I think it would be like the Angreal that tests for Accepted, they ecnompass the body, but wouldn't be able to do anything but observe or something. Not sure though. That's something only BS can answer I think.

 

Probably more like the rings in Rhuidean the first time a wise one visits. Where she's shown all possible paths for her life

[RandA lThor]

I think that there are different versions of TAR for all the worlds. Otherwise, there would be so many dreamwalkers in TAR. Also, when egwene is looking for someone's dreams like Nynaeve's she wouldn't be sure because there would be like 100 Nynaeves.

[Aulduron]

I was just thinking the same thing. I was also thinking that in another world, Verin may have studied the Aiel, or portal stones, instead of the Shadow. That would help the Verin = Nakomi theories. It could also be how Rand dies and comes back.

[Lacanos]

You cannot use portal stones to enter another world in which you are present. There's a difference between the mirror worlds and parallel worlds - I remember having this discussion on these forums a while back. Portal stones, as far as we know, only go to worlds that are very different, you cannot go to near-convergent realities in them.

Likewise, there is an entirely different TAR for each world - TAR is described as the spaces between threads of the pattern.

[yoniy0]

120 is a good deal less than half, I think.

It's really not. Verin identified 203. There are 6 more that Egwene caught, and several others who are put under suspicion (by virtue of disappearing in the confusion). There are probably others Verin missed among the third of AS not present in either Tower (probably more than 3, since they would be the ones hardest to confirm as BA, but if Verin's rate keeps true, not a whole lot more). So there were about 210-220 BA members before the Purge. Egwene caught 50 sisters in the rebel camp, then she reportedly let most Blacks in the tower, some 60 sisters, escape. Shall we say, by a very generous estimate, that she might've picked up another 50 sisters?

 

So, actually, less than half were caught in her Purge.

[Edynol]

But remember there are other AS who were not at the tower or the rebel camp. Spread through out all of Randland. You can't think the BA would have all or even most of its number all in one place. And let's not forget the Kin, how many are there? Over a thousand I think? I'm pretty sure there are more than a few darkfriends among them that might as well be Black Ajah, if not officially.

[yoniy0]

Firstly, I referred to those third of AS not affiliated with any side. Verin certainly included them, and I extrapolated (and clearly said what I was doing) from her accuracy rate to come by an estimation of how many there were.

Secondly, the Kin has no AS. They may have Darkfriends (although, I seem to recall that for some reason they don't; at least, it's obvious that the Knitting Circle in Ebou Dar had none), but no BA members.

 

Regardless, I thought your earlier point was that Egwene got most of them. I answered to show that she really didn't. I do agree that there are more channeling DF out there.

[Edynol]

Nah I never said she got most of them, just cleansed the tower of them. And I never said there were Aes Sedai in the Kin. I said they most likely had darkfriends in their ranks who might as well be Black Ajah, if not officially. You don't think the DF among the Kin have zero contact with members of the BA, do ya?

 

Anyway, it impossible to tell how many BA members Verin might have missed. And though Galina might have said so, I doubt even the so-called 'leader' of the BA knew every single member, the forsaken could very well have had a few only they knew about. It's just impossible to tell exactly how many black sisters there are across the world. And yes, I throw ever other darkfriend channeler in the same mix as official BA members such as Kin and rogue channelers. They are one in the same, just some don't have the fancy title or shawl and ring.

[baalsmistress]

I do consider it likely that the BA Aes Sedai would have tended to gravitate to being in one of the two camps. Unless they were carrying out assignments outside the tower, like Galina was, the BA would be best served by surrounding the two armyrlins and trying to hedge against one or the other winning.

 

The least believable event in the entire Egwene arc for me was Eleida not executing her when she was captured. I know in her place I would have destroyed her immediately in accord with ower law. Leaving an enemy alive is always always dangerous.

[rand4747]

TAR surrounds all worlds but it seems the one you enter is specific to your world, there are probably ways of entering mirror worlds TAR without going to that world then entering it, if portal stones can reach mirror worlds im sure a channeler could and since they can reach TAR in the flesh they can probably just straight go to TAR in another world. There may even be a way of dreaming into TAR for mirror worlds (very wild speculation there :P). parallel worlds think more like other planets so they are just elsewhere in the same TAR. So the TOG is in both the real world and TAR.

[FanoLan]

Nah I never said she got most of them, just cleansed the tower of them. And I never said there were Aes Sedai in the Kin. I said they most likely had darkfriends in their ranks who might as well be Black Ajah, if not officially. You don't think the DF among the Kin have zero contact with members of the BA, do ya?

 

 

From the evidence presented during the Bowl of the Winds arc, it seems likely the BA did not know anything about the Kin. Choosing The Farm as the spot to use the Bowl of the Winds was done, at least in part, because the BA would not know about location. Questioning of the captured BA revealed the ignorance IIRC. Fairly certain no other material indicates any connection, so it seems fairly certain there has been zeron contact between the BA and the Kin. Are there suppporing reasons for your conjecture?