New Theory: Tree of Life, Aiel and the Bore

[jsbrads]

I have been exploring the Aiel's future, past, the seals... and I stumbled on something.

 

Troubles:

 

There is something very stange about the Avendesora, before the Bore, they lined the streets of every city, but after the Bore, the Aiel caretakers could only get two to grow (that we know of (one last one in Rhuidean and the other that Laman cut down). Something is causing them to fail.

 

Also Mat's reaction to the tree was too strong, the trees are supposed to be calming, but his experience seemed almost like a strong sedative.

 

Also note they are artificial/genetically engineered and not from a seed.

 

Answer:

 

Maybe the Avendesora are failing because they are no longer the focii of the seal on DO's prison. When the first trees were made, the first cell [/s] were included in the binding process of DO's prison. and they were designed in such a way that when the cells split, they take a strand of the prison with them...

 

Explainations:

 

So without the DO sucking some of the life out of the tree, the tree's effect is too great and overwhelming, subsequently the trees fail more often than not, because it is designed to fight against DO's corruption, without that they fail.

 

Also now the name now makes more sense too, it is the protector of all life on the planet (/universe).

 

This also explains why the Aiel may have had to follow the way of the leaf... a tree that does not make a seed would require replanting from cuttings, general care... The Aiel dedicated to protecting the planet by these trees would have to above wars... and destroying one would be more than just stupid, it would be vastly evil, thats why Laman had to die.

 

Advice for future:

 

Remake the prison through the cells of the tree.

 

Aiel are offered the opportunity to resume caretaking the avendesora on the planet, resume the way of the leaf, service to the Aes Sedai should be taboo (it didn't work too well last time at the end).

 

Live happily ever after.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Well I don't know about them being the seals previously, but it has been theorized that the "Song" (most probably the talent "Singing") will be used by the Ogier and the Aiel to heal the bore/DO corruption.

 

The only problem with this is where does Rand fit in, if this seals the Bore? He is supposed to be the saviour of mankind. Not a bunch of singing Ogier and Aiel.

 

I would say they would be healing the Blight, rather than the actual bore itself.

 

I love your take on Chora Trees though, nice one!

Edited May 4, 2012 by Barid Bel Medar

[TristanWebb]

The Aiel had 'some' cuttings during the breaking. The die in the barrels but cuttings are taken before they do. They were made before the bore, so there was no knowledge of the DO for them to seal. There was also no emphasis on taking the trees, even the items of power were an afterthought. The AS charged them to keep the way of the leaf, which is to take what comes as it comes, probably to try to keep what was seen as the true path of humanity, the antithesis of the DO.

 

 

[mlva103]

It was my understanding that the tree of life is just a tree genetically altered but still just a tree. Cut it down burn it with fire, giant earth quake should kill it. After the bore was sealed and the men went mad the cities were destroyed along with the trees. What trees did survive might have been cut down for wood in the chaos of the breaking. resources were scarce. The Aiel saved what they could knowing that the breaking would kill them all. I don't think the DO was any direct effect on them other than causing the breaking.

 

As for Mat it would make sense that he has a strong effect by something like that. The old blood runs strong in him. He spoke a whole battle cry in the old tongue in EOW. Not to mention it was a fateful moment for Mat. Strange things happen around mat at fateful moments.

[jsbrads]

Barid Bel Medar: You feel for the beliefs of the Lost Ones [Tinkers]. Obviously singing is cool, good, help society, agriculture, but the lost ones snapped after being pushed too far after the breaking and they threw off the burden of service to dream of a nostagia, rather than face reality.

 

BenevolentCow: You are right, there was no knowledge of DO before the Bore, everybody forgot HIM by then. Avendesora was made before the Bore, but what is unclear is how long before the Bore, a century before? a millenia? an age? or more? of course there would be no emphasis by Aes Sedai, they didn't know of the connection before the Bore (though maybe Lanfear and Ishmael figured it out after they cut into the Bore... we will see if Meirin tells Rand when he saves her...)

The trees must have been the Aiel's responsibility or part of their culture independent of the Aes Sedai advice, maybe the Aes Sedai sought to use the Aiel, tell the Aiel to keep the way of the leaf so their terangreal would be safe, coopting the original purpose to keep the trees safe by keeping the Aiel out of wars/squabbles for their own (admittedly not selfish goals).

 

Mlva: Even the Aiels constant re cutting and replanting only brought two specimens to the current time... and noone else tried? every other tree burnt? no survivors to take cuttings from after the breaking? It is not a proof but it is suspicious.

And Mat would feel different because of his blood? Maybe, but I think he can remember the old tounge. Should his ancestors who sat under this tree felt calmed, but he seems sedated?

[Suttree]

They are just Chora trees which were constructs planted in abundance along roadways in various cities. Avendesora is specifically the one that grew in Rhuidean. The BWB talks about a fragment surviving which discusses the AS research leading to the development of them. It is an interesting thought that they could be something more, however something that important would surely have been explored more throughout the story. It would be totally out of left field if this just popped up in AMoL.

[jsbrads]

I think they are holding somethings back from us. Aiel's heritage, Avendesora/Chora, the seals to DO's prison. My Dad always said "watch out, if the more questions they answer - leaves you with more questions than you started with." (or something like that, he knows grammar, unlike me.)

We saw the Aiel going back to AoL, but why did they live the way of the leaf? why was Choras so important? Why are choras/Avendesora called the tree of life? why did the Aiel serve the Aes Sedai? Will there be seals on the new prison? (not cuellindar, we all think)

 

Hey y'all read what I did. This theory answers a lot of questions.

Tell me what you think

[XoMeltdownoX]

OK. Nice theory, but no evidence. The books indicate that the bore must be fixed or healed in some manner, not just patched like it was in the second age. The prison must be whole at the end of the third age in order for mankind to forget the DO and drill a bore again when the second age comes again. I think this will have something to do with life or living things (remember Min's viewing of the fireflies being swallowed by the darkness and how they begin to hold their own when Rand is with Perrin), but the chora trees have not been around for a full turning of the wheel, nor have the Aiel.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Also, the Aiel were not alone in their care for the Chora trees. It required the Nym(I may be wrong on the Nym) and Ogier as well.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Barid Bel Medar

[fikkie77]

Chora trees had nothing to do with keeping the Dark One's prison locked, had nothing to do with creating the Bore and will have nothing to do with recreating the Dark One's prison.

The song had nothing to do with keeping the Dark One's prison locked, had nothing to do with creating the Bore and will have nothing to do with recreating the Dark One's prison.

 

I don't know whether the song will be found in the final book. I think it will, but it's importance is in restoring the world after TG and/or a possible breaking after TG.

[jsbrads]

Mr Meltdown: you said "the chora trees have not been around for a full turning of the wheel, nor have the Aiel."

 

or maybe they have.

 

The tree of life is more than just a nice tree and the Aiel are literally the only whole people that no only survived the breaking, but lasted another three thousand years (obviously discounting their change to Ji toh and losing way of leaf) not counting how many before the breaking, during the age of lengends...

 

Interesting observation, Chora are the only tree that would be extinct if people ascribed the way of the leaf to them

[Kaznen]

Few things i want to mention....

 

jsbrads mentioned how strange it was how it effected Mat. But keep this in mind, in the 24 hours Mat:

1. Fought trollocs in a place people did not believe in trollocs in a fortress know for not being infiltrated.

2. Learns Whitecloaks are harassing his homeland, friends' families, and maybe his own

3. Has his first meeting with the finns, ending with his being thrown out of their world.

4. Get yelled at by an AS.

5. Takes a trip to the Aiel Waste via portal stone.

6. Asked to enter a place only candidates for clan chiefs and wise ones can enter, located in a valley most Aiel will never see in their life, and is threatened by an Aiel warrior for doing that, and the WO acknowledged Coulidan had a point.

7. Hiked across a desert famous for killing people, and he wasn't allowed to bring food or water.

8. Sees his best friend start to crack up.

 

After all that a little peace and quite would be like a sedative. Rand was so keyed up he could ignore the effects. And even Mat's friends thought he was something of a slacker.

 

Him and Rand did not stay and zone out afterwords, and that scene took place in the tree's shade.

 

And BenevolentCow made a good point about the Aiel being charged with taking care of the Choras and items of power. The AS didn't care about those, they cared about saving the Aiel. But the Aiel were ready to die to save others, so the AS commanded them to "protect" their cargo to give the Aiel a reason to flee and look for their promised land. WOs and Clan Chiefs saw the true goal in hindsight and saw how they had really failed the AS.

 

If protecting the cuttings was so important the Aiel would have been all Johnny Appleseed with the cutting they could no longer carry during the breaking and in the early days after the breaking been planting whenever they found a likely place.

 

And at the very least, each hold of the modern Aiel would be growing a Chora.

[jsbrads]

i am recommenting, cause I really love this theory and I want everybody to get a chance to see it, but I also have a quick comment.

 

Kaznen: The Aiel couldn't plant chora's in thier holds, because their holds were in a desert, no water, Rhuidean was protected from the burning hot sun by the dome cloud, and they also seemed willing to give a cutting to Laman's family. And why were the Aiel so important to save? So important for them to keep the way of the Leaf that they were not drafted into the army when the war against the shadow threatened the whole world.

 

fikkie: I accept your statement as is, but do you have a rreason why the choras can't play this role?

 

of course planting trees everywhere you go only last more than one generation, if they produce seed and also note they required a tremendous amount of work ro keep alive... whole thing seems suspicious of more. Note: the greatest event in history since Hawkwing is Laman's sin which was about cutting down a tree...

 

Also, why was Mierin brought back into the story in the last book? she was dead and gone... we didn't need her, unless she has something to reveal to Rand after he saves her. She and Ishy were the one's who drilled the bore working together, so she may understand more about the form of DO's prison (prior to the bore) than anyone else, regardless of whether the prison included choras or not

[Suttree]

Also, why was Mierin brought back into the story in the last book? she was dead and gone...

 

She was brought back long before the last book, same as many other forsaken.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Suttree

[Aulduron]

I think that Loial somehow saved the Green Man and we'll see him again in the next book.

[muddasssir]

you blame me of going of on the tangent while this whole thread has missed the circle by a country mile. I mean I do not need book to tell you that when Aiel abandoned the way of leaf they left everything behind. It meant that only ones left with chora cuttings were Jenn Aiel. When thy died out there was already just one tree left. If you remember the Rand's journey through glass columns he saw Rhuidean without mist it invalidates that argument about th tr growing because it was in the shade due to mist in rhuidean. it must have been one of the last acts of those ancient Aes Sedai to create that barrier before they died. There is zero textual evidence in favor of this theory and if BS pulls of some stunt like that I am going to sue him.

[Mr Ares]

Also, why was Mierin brought back into the story in the last book? she was dead and gone... we didn't need her, unless she has something to reveal to Rand after he saves her. She and Ishy were the one's who drilled the bore working together, so she may understand more about the form of DO's prison (prior to the bore) than anyone else, regardless of whether the prison included choras or not

Ishy was not involved with the drilling of the Bore. And did you miss that Lanfear was Cyndane, who has been around since book 8?

[jsbrads]

a lot to respond to...

 

Mr Ares and Suttree, end of page 841 (maybe third to last page in ToM) Rand finds Meirin in his dream? I don't understand it, cyndane was balefired already, right? maybe when DO brings forsaken back he seperates out the good, and somehow meirin is in telrhoid? meirin being the good half?

 

Muddasssir, it grew under the constant care of the jenn, and it was able to survive the last 1600 years in the shade of the magic dome that may have had some preserving characteristics

 

Aulduron, I think someshta is dead, but I really liked him and wouldn't mind seeing him again, note: he could have been born as a hero already, Im guessing even an exile could earn hero status

[NetSlider]

As always, Mr Ares beats everyone to it :p

 

Seems u have some issues with lanfears timeline but i for one do not dismiss the whole bc part of it is fales.

Theory is interesting but def some issues. As far as why the trees were created in the first place, i thought it was bc they prevented people from behaving like animals and decreased chances of violence. Im sure that there was an of hand comment in rands vision something alone the line of "without choras it would b a wilderness" or something like that.

[Suttree]

Mr Ares and Suttree, end of page 841 (maybe third to last page in ToM) Rand finds Meirin in his dream? I don't understand it, cyndane was balefired already, right?

 

Neither Lanfear nor Cyndane(Lanfear/Meirin resurrected by the DO) have ever been balefired. Cyndane is very much a alive and has been featured a number of times. You might want to go back and do a refresher.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Suttree

[Aulduron]

Somesta probably is dead. However, when he died, he dropped the acorn that grew into the oak tree. Loial sang to it, and afterward said he could not have sung so hard if something of Treebrother was not in there. His own songs don't have that power, and said that the blight would not have him. Probably, that will be where the Blight starts to recede, but maybe not.

[jsbrads]

Sutree: ah, did i confuse which recontructed forsaken was vaporized in greandel's catastrophy? was it arangar?

Why is meirin being tortured, if cyndane is still serving faithfully... that really is unimportant to the theory tho.

Regardless of what Meirin knows, her place at the Bore, makes her the best resource for returning it to its previous state (whether or not the choras were invovled)

[Wolf505]

Yes, Arangar/Balthamel was balefired by Rand at Natrin's Barrow. Lanfear/Cyndane/Mierin is being tortured because she is not fully loyal to the Dark One, as evidenced by the times she tries to get Rand to use the CK to destroy the Dark One and the Creator both. She's just one messed up chick. She essentially turned to the Shadow because Lews Therin dumped her for Elyena and she's obsessed with getting him back. My guess is she's being tortured by Moridin for simply being an abject failure since her resurrection. She's essentially accomplished nothing of significance since she became Cyndane. She may have finally hit rock bottom and is now desperate enough to call out to Rand to save her. That's my guess anyway. Given her knowledge of how the Bore was made in the first place, she may be essential to re-sealing it.

 

Oh, and the reason the Aes Sedai arranged for the Aiel to be saved was because it was from Aiel blood that the Dragon would be reborn. The objects of power, Avendesora, all of that was secondary to saving the Aiel themselves. It can be surmised that the glittering columns were made by the last Aes Sedai in Rhuidean before they died since clearly they wouldn't have been able to transport them on wagons. What was their purpose? Obviously to let the Aiel know that the Car'a'carn had been born and to give him a way to prove himself to them, but also consider that because of his visions in the glass columns, Rand knows that Mierin was responsible for the Bore and may know how to re-seal it.

[Suttree]

She's just one messed up chick. She essentially turned to the Shadow because Lews Therin dumped her for Elyena and she's obsessed with getting him back.

 

That is greatly simplifying things. She had all the character traits that made her according to RJ "ripe for the shadow's plucking" long before the bore and LTT's relationship. Not to mention he was a path to power and nothing more. It's not as if she ever really cared for him. She had never earned the third name and was focused on the status being with him would bring.

 

TSR

You were mine long before that pale-haired milksop stole you. Before she ever saw you. You loved me!”

“And you loved power!” For a moment he felt dazed. The words sounded true—he knew they were true—but where had they come from?

[Barid Bel Medar]

edit: couldn't find relevant quote, probably doesn't exist

Edited June 15, 2012 by Barid Bel Medar