Rand's Saidin Sickness

[TaiSharManetheren]

What's up with the Nausea that Rand experiences when he siezes Saidin? Is it part of the taint or something because the other male channelers don't seem to have this issue...

[ElusiveAthena]

I've wondered this too, and I've hypothisized that it's because of Rand's "connection" with Moridin - maybe that when the streams of balefire crossed (I assume Moridin was wielding the True Power) that opened up not only a connectiion between Rand and Moridin, but gave Rand an extra connection to the Dark One. So even when he embraced the Source (which is clean) he was still "touching" the Dark One. This idea could be completely wrong though, so if there's a well-established theory or a "legit truth" then I look forward to knowing it.

[Shini]

Its a commonly agreed fact that the sickness is infact due to the moridin-rand link from the balefires touching.

If you had even looked at the thread on top of the forums, and read into the Luckers' FAQ even a few lines, you would've found this link: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/50914-who-is-the-third-man-rand-and-moridins-link/

 

Please read the FAQ through :)

[Barid Bel Medar]

Shini's post is true, and I agree it is to do with the whole link.

 

HOWEVER!

 

The taint affects men in different ways, so just because none of the others experience it, doesn't mean it is not true. Naeff experienced unique effects of the taint, him always seeing Fades lurking around. There are various other stories of the other men experiencing taint induced craziness.

[Datakim]

Its a commonly agreed fact that the sickness is infact due to the moridin-rand link from the balefires touching.

If you had even looked at the thread on top of the forums, and read into the Luckers' FAQ even a few lines, you would've found this link: http://www.dragonmou...-moridins-link/

 

This is almost certain, though I am curious why the new post-TGS Rand does not suffer from the sickness anymore (according to Min anyway, who should know). Does the protection against taint Nynave found in his mind extend to this aswell, or could it be something else.

 

Hmm. Now that I think of it, the sickness was worst at Ebou Dar, when Rand was about to wipe out an entire city using balefire and the Choedan Kal, a very Moridinish thing to do. Maybe the link responds to the "closeness" in the mental states of the two persons. At Ebou Dar, Rands mind was almost like Moridins in his insanity and evil, so he felt the sickness the worst. But now that Rand has reached "enlightenment", he exists in a mental state at virtually the opposite end of the spectrum from Moridin. Maybe thats why he can channel without sickness now. I wonder, if Moridin were to turn to the light and become like Rand (sameness, but just the other way around), would the sickness return to both once more.

 

Further, as Luckers points out in that link, Moridin experienced sickness from the link and Saidin too, and this is probably the reason why he started used True Power exclusively which was new behaviour according to Demandred. Now that Saidin no longer causes sickness in Rand, the same is presumably true in Moridin aswell. Will Moridin return to using the OP (and possibly take advantage of things like angreal if he has found a male one or male/female circles with his two mindtrapped slaves of Moghedien and Cyndane) now that the sickness is gone, or is he too far gone to TP addiction to even use OP anymore.

[Shini]

Iirc, we haven't actually seen any pov from Rand when he has embraced the source. And we haven't seen it from anyone else's pov either.

So it can be argued that the sickness might still be there, as there hasn't been any information on whether or not it happens.

 

As you remember, the sickness really only comes when he first embraces the source, and it fades after that, which has allowed him to channel without problem after the sickness faded away.

 

So all in all, I'd say that you can't really say whether the sickness still affects rand when he embraces the source or not, because we haven't been shown any example of him actually embracing the source on screen.

And iirc, we haven't even really seen rand channel anywhere else other than Maradon, everything else was done by one of his asha'man.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yeah, the only thing we can really say for certain is that the sickness no longer affects him as bad as it did. He was falling down retching the last time we saw the sickness in tGS, just before VoG. And he opens the Gateway to slaughter some trollocs at Maradon, and Ituralde didn't notice anything big. So it has at least become manageable for him, if it has not gone altogether, which may be the case, due to the barrier of light mentioned, or perhaps he has fixed or curbed it with his memories of Lews Therin. Maybe he has simply learned to get used to it like his wounds.

 

Edit: I will leave it as is, but I will add that I am wrong about the whole Gateway thing being evidence. Obviously, since he could have been holding on to the power the whole time.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Barid Bel Medar

[Datakim]

Iirc, we haven't actually seen any pov from Rand when he has embraced the source. And we haven't seen it from anyone else's pov either.

So it can be argued that the sickness might still be there, as there hasn't been any information on whether or not it happens.

 

Actually, we do see Mins thoughts, and she thinks that either the sickness is gone, or Rand is hiding it better. This is when they enter the effect of the guardian during the borderlander meeting, and Rand shows no reaction. Remember that Min has a bond with Rand, and can feel it when he gets sick if she is close, that was already established in the previous books. Given that Min and Rand are once again very close (emotionally) and she is hanging around again, one would presume that she would have been around atleast once, when Rand channeled, and infact, the fact she thinks the sickness is gone would suggest that. And ofcourse there is the fact that we never get even the slightest reaction from Rand anytime we see him channel.

 

Though the second possibility does exist naturally, and maybe Rand really is just hiding it from Min somehow. Maybe LTT's memories include somekind of mental techniques to block it from her or something. And to deal with it better too. Though I am unsure if that really makes sense with Rands new open and trusting attitude.

 

As you remember, the sickness really only comes when he first embraces the source, and it fades after that, which has allowed him to channel without problem after the sickness faded away.

 

True, he might be holding the power constantly to avoid the sickness. Heck, its been suggested that Rand is now linked to Saidin constantly, the way his children are in Aviendhas vision. That would certainly get rid of the sickness, if Rand never needed to embrace the source to begin with, and would explain why Min never feels it anymore.

 

So all in all, I'd say that you can't really say whether the sickness still affects rand when he embraces the source or not, because we haven't been shown any example of him actually embracing the source on screen.

And iirc, we haven't even really seen rand channel anywhere else other than Maradon, everything else was done by one of his asha'man.

 

There are a few other times. He teaches Naeff a disguise weave. He removes a barricade in Bandar Eban. Might be more that I forgot. Besides, the fact that Min can claim her belief that the sickness is gone suggests she must have been around when Rand channeled in other times too.

[Shini]

Now that I read the ch51 from ToM, where Rand teaches Naeff the disguise weave and enters Far Madding guardians, I can see what you meant.

What I can't remember is that has Rand gotten sick when he releases the source as well, or just when he first embraces it?

 

I really don't feel comfortable discussing about these things, because usually when I think of something, it appears that I just forgot some crucial part, and then someone more experienced comes and just bashes me down :P

[Tyzack]

Okay, I pretty much disagree with the Moridin/sickness theory. Seizing of the power, even in early books is frequently followed by "the sweet essence of life itself, covered with a sicking slime" or something along those lines.

 

Along with the increased parania/attempt to become cuendelair, I attributed the progression from "sicking slime" to physical manifestavation of throwing up to the progession of the taint.

[Shini]

Well, if you want to argue about it, I'm sure Luckers and a few others will welcome your arguments, provided that they are well thought and have some sense in them :)

[gloweye]

Now that I read the ch51 from ToM, where Rand teaches Naeff the disguise weave and enters Far Madding guardians, I can see what you meant.

What I can't remember is that has Rand gotten sick when he releases the source as well, or just when he first embraces it?

 

I really don't feel comfortable discussing about these things, because usually when I think of something, it appears that I just forgot some crucial part, and then someone more experienced comes and just bashes me down :P

 

Not that much more experienced, but im certainly not trying to bash you down. In fact, i agree with practically evereything you've said :D.

 

The sickness comes with releasing the power the same as grasping. And that it's related to his link with morridin is at least strongly hinted at because it's morridin's face that accompanies the nausae. Again, check the upper link for full evedience - its a.far to beautifull collection of evidence to double up the work.

[Azrayne]

Has there been any evidence for the Moridin theory other than the fact that the sickness popped up after Rand fought Sammael?

 

Seems like the most likely option, but I guess we'll have to wait for AMOL to find out.

[Roxinos]

Okay, I pretty much disagree with the Moridin/sickness theory. Seizing of the power, even in early books is frequently followed by "the sweet essence of life itself, covered with a sicking slime" or something along those lines.

 

Along with the increased parania/attempt to become cuendelair, I attributed the progression from "sicking slime" to physical manifestavation of throwing up to the progession of the taint.

 

Except no other male channeller (aside from Moridin) experiences what Rand does.

[Grond]

I know that this is a thread that has been long since abandoned...but as I listen to the audiobooks for the 15th time or so, something occurred to me about Rand's sickness. First let me make some observations:

 

Rand only starts feeling the nauseousness AFTER he crosses balefire with Moridin.

 

He feels the taint from almost the first touching, so that isn't new

 

He also feels the taint "seeping into his bones" when he draws close to his maximum.

 

The True Power is exponentially more "addictive" 

 

Here's what I think...I think that when the True Power balefire touches Rand's One Power balefire, it opens Rand up to be able to touch and use the True Power. With that assumption in mind, and Rand having to go THROUGH the taint every time he want to use the One Power, the DO is using the taint to make it EXTREMELY less palatable to use the One Power and is steering Rand toward using the True Power...which is precisely what ends up happening (to LTT's shock and horror). 

 

The DO is TRYING to MAKE Rand use the True Power by making it very uncomfortable to use the One Power...negative re-enforcement. 

[CrystallineTart]

I think it's just supposed to be part of the taint... not necessarily a part of Rand.

[wotfan4472]

But Nyneave Healing Naeff's madness reveals that the taint is a variation of the True Power's Compulsion. We know that there are effects when it is used that does not happen with the One Power. Perhaps the Dark One did nothing, but the crossed balefire agravated the taint each time Rand channelled after that. Perhaps each time he channelled, since book two, a weave of True Power Compulsion overlaid his mind, getting worse each time. If this is true, then the balefire crossing overlaid two or three weaves of True Power Compulsion, each time Rand channelled after that moment, speeding up the sickness, which distracted Rand from going being aware of the madness from the taint. We also know that Lews Therin's voice gets more and more difficult to manage after this point as well. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by wotfan4472

[CrystallineTart]

The ONe power versus the True Power vs Saidin separately vs saidar separately II think it's all a bit

much...

 

Like I think what was intended is just to state that there is the source... period.... and then Saidar ie is se

essentially just the source as used by women and Saidin is with w men...

 

it can obviously be overcomplicated and stuff and I'm sure there's just ways of making it even more confusing but

essentially that....

 

Rand's saidin sickness is because there is some kind of connection with male channeling and the source and the

dark one and stuff so it all gets t boned....

 

That's kinda all we know... I think...

 

For all we know there aren't any reasons why there's really like in all honesty maybe there

isn't a sickness... maybe there isn't even a taint...

 

Maybe the Dark one is just a fantastic liar and it's all presentable backstory/hearsay stuff

designed to confuse everyone... I mean seriously.....

Edited May 18, 2019 by CrystallineTart

[DemandredFO]

@CrystallineTartwhat does that even mean. The sickness is initially the taint and later is because Rand and Moridin did what any fan of the original ghostbusters knows not to do.