Does WOT Drop off After Shadow Rising

[futurehermit]

Some divergent plot lines in books 7-10:

 

--Bowl of the Winds

--The Kin

--Seanchen Invasion

--White Tower Rebellion

--Faile and the Shaido

--Elayne's ascension to the Lion Throne

--Mat and Tuon

 

While Rand is busy whacking Forsaken and cleansing Saidin, our attention is kept following a hunt for a bowl, chatting to some channelers who couldn't cut it in the Tower, following Tower politics, trying to rescue Faile from the Shaido (for multiple books), following Elayne and more politics (Andoran this time), and Mat hanging out in Ebou Dar so he can meet Tuon. Yes, there is the Seanchen invasion, but even that detracts from the main focus (The DO and Forsaken).

 

I think that the middle books of any series are already up against the serial position effect and now we have our attention moving away from central plot lines in these books.

 

I actually loved every book, though I admit these 4 lag relative to the others. I just think these plotlines were less successful from Jordan's central plotlines. Unfortunately, since they heavily involve Egwene, Elayne, and Faile, and tend to lack action a lot of time (hence the smoothing skirts comments on these boards, lol), I think these plotlines are largely responsible for the hate on these three characters, which is too bad, since I think they are actually great characters in many other parts of the series.

[Thorum]

A big reason why a lot of people here think it drops of at that point, is that back then, the time between books became greater. If you're used to books that are 99/100 coming out every year, and suddenly you have to wait 2-3 years for a book that's still 95/100, you'll sure be disappointed.

 

Secondly, Crossroads of Twilight should never have been its own book. It's the first half of Knife of Dreams.

[XXX]

Some divergent plot lines in books 7-10:

 

--Bowl of the Winds

--The Kin

--Seanchen Invasion

--White Tower Rebellion

--Faile and the Shaido

--Elayne's ascension to the Lion Throne

--Mat and Tuon

 

While Rand is busy whacking Forsaken and cleansing Saidin, our attention is kept following a hunt for a bowl, chatting to some channelers who couldn't cut it in the Tower, following Tower politics, trying to rescue Faile from the Shaido (for multiple books), following Elayne and more politics (Andoran this time), and Mat hanging out in Ebou Dar so he can meet Tuon. Yes, there is the Seanchen invasion, but even that detracts from the main focus (The DO and Forsaken).

 

I think that the middle books of any series are already up against the serial position effect and now we have our attention moving away from central plot lines in these books.

 

I actually loved every book, though I admit these 4 lag relative to the others. I just think these plotlines were less successful from Jordan's central plotlines. Unfortunately, since they heavily involve Egwene, Elayne, and Faile, and tend to lack action a lot of time (hence the smoothing skirts comments on these boards, lol), I think these plotlines are largely responsible for the hate on these three characters, which is too bad, since I think they are actually great characters in many other parts of the series.

 

Yes..books not involving lots of action which is most of the later books after Shadow Rising and before KoD are really boring. Anything involving Rand is always fun as he is either whacking forsaken ass or intimidating nobels,Aes Sedai or doing something cool with the power. same with mat except the part where he is stuck being a sex toy.

 

The really boring books have a lot of Egwene,Faile and Elayne parts and filled with lots of smoothing of skirts,arcing of eyebrows and piercing gazes!!

[futurehermit]

Some divergent plot lines in books 7-10:

 

--Bowl of the Winds

--The Kin

--Seanchen Invasion

--White Tower Rebellion

--Faile and the Shaido

--Elayne's ascension to the Lion Throne

--Mat and Tuon

 

While Rand is busy whacking Forsaken and cleansing Saidin, our attention is kept following a hunt for a bowl, chatting to some channelers who couldn't cut it in the Tower, following Tower politics, trying to rescue Faile from the Shaido (for multiple books), following Elayne and more politics (Andoran this time), and Mat hanging out in Ebou Dar so he can meet Tuon. Yes, there is the Seanchen invasion, but even that detracts from the main focus (The DO and Forsaken).

 

I think that the middle books of any series are already up against the serial position effect and now we have our attention moving away from central plot lines in these books.

 

I actually loved every book, though I admit these 4 lag relative to the others. I just think these plotlines were less successful from Jordan's central plotlines. Unfortunately, since they heavily involve Egwene, Elayne, and Faile, and tend to lack action a lot of time (hence the smoothing skirts comments on these boards, lol), I think these plotlines are largely responsible for the hate on these three characters, which is too bad, since I think they are actually great characters in many other parts of the series.

 

Yes..books not involving lots of action which is most of the later books after Shadow Rising and before KoD are really boring. Anything involving Rand is always fun as he is either whacking forsaken ass or intimidating nobels,Aes Sedai or doing something cool with the power. same with mat except the part where he is stuck being a sex toy.

 

The really boring books have a lot of Egwene,Faile and Elayne parts and filled with lots of smoothing of skirts,arcing of eyebrows and piercing gazes!!

 

Ok, except books 5 and 6 are awesome! Rand's battle and then training with Asmodeon, Lanfear and Moiraine, Mat venturing through the redframe ter'angreal, Rand's capture, Ashaman and Dumai's Wells, much more...there's LOTS of good stuff in these two books. That's why I mentioned it's more so books 7-10 that tail off relative to the first 6.

[XXX]

Ya..some parts of the later books are good. Mostly stuff involving Rand and Mat. But once the plot moved towards boring arms crossing and skirt smoothing, things went backwards really quickly.

[Duskfire]

WH is one of my more favourite books in the series, and not just because of the Cleansing. I love the Mat storyline in it; yes it was a bit slow, but to me, that was the book where Mat truly matured, as he planned not only his own escape from the Seanchan, but a whole heap of people. And him rescuing the Sea Folk and the exchange they had added extra layers as to why I like the character so much.

[Zappa3837]

Some divergent plot lines in books 7-10:

 

--Bowl of the Winds

--The Kin

--Seanchen Invasion

--White Tower Rebellion

--Faile and the Shaido

--Elayne's ascension to the Lion Throne

--Mat and Tuon

 

While Rand is busy whacking Forsaken and cleansing Saidin, our attention is kept following a hunt for a bowl, chatting to some channelers who couldn't cut it in the Tower, following Tower politics, trying to rescue Faile from the Shaido (for multiple books), following Elayne and more politics (Andoran this time), and Mat hanging out in Ebou Dar so he can meet Tuon. Yes, there is the Seanchen invasion, but even that detracts from the main focus (The DO and Forsaken).

 

I think that the middle books of any series are already up against the serial position effect and now we have our attention moving away from central plot lines in these books.

 

I actually loved every book, though I admit these 4 lag relative to the others. I just think these plotlines were less successful from Jordan's central plotlines. Unfortunately, since they heavily involve Egwene, Elayne, and Faile, and tend to lack action a lot of time (hence the smoothing skirts comments on these boards, lol), I think these plotlines are largely responsible for the hate on these three characters, which is too bad, since I think they are actually great characters in many other parts of the series.

 

Yes..books not involving lots of action which is most of the later books after Shadow Rising and before KoD are really boring. Anything involving Rand is always fun as he is either whacking forsaken ass or intimidating nobels,Aes Sedai or doing something cool with the power. same with mat except the part where he is stuck being a sex toy.

 

The really boring books have a lot of Egwene,Faile and Elayne parts and filled with lots of smoothing of skirts,arcing of eyebrows and piercing gazes!!

 

Ok, except books 5 and 6 are awesome! Rand's battle and then training with Asmodeon, Lanfear and Moiraine, Mat venturing through the redframe ter'angreal, Rand's capture, Ashaman and Dumai's Wells, much more...there's LOTS of good stuff in these two books. That's why I mentioned it's more so books 7-10 that tail off relative to the first 6.

Speaking of Asmodeon, I really miss him. Wish Jordan would've kept him around. Definitely one of the most interesting characters in the series. Hopefully he gets brought back somehow.

[AltonJakeStorey]

In all honesty, I enjoyed all of them except book VIII. I REALLY like Mat and, though some of them were slow, the books always had Mat to make them fun... except for book VIII. That book was miserable for me. It took me MONTHS to read (it usually takes me a few days of scattered reading to finish a WoT book).

[Zappa3837]

I loved both "Crown of Swords" and "Path of Daggers". I don't see what the problem is with these books

[sunteeser]

I'm reading the books for the first time and I just finished Path of Daggers. I thought that was the only book so far that was a lull for me. Everything else I thought was pretty good. We will see what I think of Winters Heart

[shadowofomioc]

I'd say the big drop off begins around book 7. Book 8-10 are a waste of paper in my personal opinion. Sure cool things happen, but they fill about 30 pages of 650+ page novels. Crossroads of Twilight is perhaps the best example of a waste of paper. It literally takes 400 pages for anything remotely interesting to occur in that book and the interesting section is not all that interesting.

 

Book 8-10 are pretty bad. Book 11 is better. Book 12 and 13 are fantastic again thanks to the new writer speeding along the story telling and actually getting things to happen. Perhaps that is what Jordan would have done as well, but we'll never know.

 

The whole of the series is fantastic even with the big drop off in the later novels. The main thing Jordan did badly was create WAY too many small storylines and he created WAY too many characters. Literally hundreds of names characters with descriptions, back-story's and storylines to go with it. Very hard to keep up with them all by book 6 or so. You can also literally skip entire paragraphs or pages or sections of a chapter without missing anything. Jordan had a strange way of being able to describe a wall with terrific detail for an entire page. Or spend far too much time describing how someone is reacting to a certain topic of a conversation or whatever. It gets boring and old real fast.

 

Books 1-6 are amazing things. Book 7 is pretty good. Book 8-10 are pretty bad. Book 11-13 have been terrific. Can't wait to finally get to end this series and then hope for a movie trilogy or HBO series ala Game of Thrones.

[futurehermit]

I'd say the big drop off begins around book 7. Book 8-10 are a waste of paper in my personal opinion. Sure cool things happen, but they fill about 30 pages of 650+ page novels. Crossroads of Twilight is perhaps the best example of a waste of paper. It literally takes 400 pages for anything remotely interesting to occur in that book and the interesting section is not all that interesting.

 

Book 8-10 are pretty bad. Book 11 is better. Book 12 and 13 are fantastic again thanks to the new writer speeding along the story telling and actually getting things to happen. Perhaps that is what Jordan would have done as well, but we'll never know.

 

The whole of the series is fantastic even with the big drop off in the later novels. The main thing Jordan did badly was create WAY too many small storylines and he created WAY too many characters. Literally hundreds of names characters with descriptions, back-story's and storylines to go with it. Very hard to keep up with them all by book 6 or so. You can also literally skip entire paragraphs or pages or sections of a chapter without missing anything. Jordan had a strange way of being able to describe a wall with terrific detail for an entire page. Or spend far too much time describing how someone is reacting to a certain topic of a conversation or whatever. It gets boring and old real fast.

 

Books 1-6 are amazing things. Book 7 is pretty good. Book 8-10 are pretty bad. Book 11-13 have been terrific. Can't wait to finally get to end this series and then hope for a movie trilogy or HBO series ala Game of Thrones.

 

A movie series would have to be longer than a trilogy. LOR was a book trilogy turned into a movie trilogy and each movie was still pretty long...

 

I would love a movie series also, but it would be at least 6 movies imo (star wars saga). Even awesomer would be a 10+ season HBO series...

[Southpaw89]

books definitely did not drop off after 4. Some people claim books 8-10 were the weakest in the series but that's because they look at them as individual books. I look at the series as a whole as one large book and when looking at it like that, books 8-10 were brilliant and have great importance to the series.

[Zappa3837]

books definitely did not drop off after 4. Some people claim books 8-10 were the weakest in the series but that's because they look at them as individual books. I look at the series as a whole as one large book and when looking at it like that, books 8-10 were brilliant and have great importance to the series.

I have loved all the books so far, and I'm already almost finished with winter's heart. I really dig all of the politic-ing that has gone on in the last few books, and have really enjoyed getting to know the characters better. Do you think a lot of people's problem with these (approx. 7-10) is that there is not enough "action" for them?

[condonmc]

books definitely did not drop off after 4. Some people claim books 8-10 were the weakest in the series but that's because they look at them as individual books. I look at the series as a whole as one large book and when looking at it like that, books 8-10 were brilliant and have great importance to the series.

I have loved all the books so far, and I'm already almost finished with winter's heart. I really dig all of the politic-ing that has gone on in the last few books, and have really enjoyed getting to know the characters better. Do you think a lot of people's problem with these (approx. 7-10) is that there is not enough "action" for them?

Good as Gold

[TheLagomorph]

Problems with some later books (8-10) is mostly that so many people are stuck in a place or doing a single thing. Mat in Ebou Dar (must not wear lace), Elayne in Caemlyn (thanks Dyelin, tea? Bathing anyone?), Perrin chasing Faile (must add knot), Faile with Aiel (hi there sexy soon-to-be-hammered face), Egwene with Salidar Aes Sedai (thanks Siuan, grr Lelaine and Romanda). This takes longer/more pages than the entire LotR story. The only one doing stuff in this period is Rand. Book ten is hard especially because it deals with timelines NOT Rand catching up. That is to say, everyone in that book is stuck.

 

Still, aside from Perrin's bits I like them.

[dexterryu]

If you're reading it straight through, they are pretty consistent and you get less concerned about "nothing happened" in this book because there is really no wait until the next one.

 

That said, my favorite books are 2, 4, 5, 7. My least favorites are 8 & 10.

 

I like 5 quite a bit because of the big battles and the way the end picks up (I'm being vague so I don't spoil it for the OP).

 

7, I like just because Mat is at his best.

 

8... not sure why this one doesn't work well for me, and 10 was slow but set things up for the next few books.

[tonofthorns]

I don't think book 4 drops off. There are definitely a LOT of characters to have to keep up with, but Jordan's Wheel of Time World is large. I read on looking forward to how it ends. Yes, some books are better than others. But, all the books as a whole tell one big, awesome story. Heather

[Tom Sawyer]

Book five is where the meandering does start. There was that whole bit with Nynaeve and Elayne wandering around with the circus that just didn't work for me at all. That could have been two chapters and not half a book. It is, however, minor meandering with lots of fast-paced and tight plotlines going on around it.

 

Books 7 to 10 are a lot of meandering with the odd plotline randomly inserted here and there. There was a comment above about how you can just skip over entire pages and not miss anything at all and that's how I see them as well.

[Zappa3837]

"Crossroads of Twilight" has been the only one that didn't grab me. But it was all buildup, that was needed (at least I think it was).

[Azrayne]

I found that around FOH some of the storylines slow down more than others (the Aes Sedai & Perrin seemed worst, while Mat, Rand and a few others weren't too bad at this stage)

 

Around COS they all slow down, this gets worse every book up until the series hits a low point at COT, which could be cut almost entirely without losing anything important, then it starts recovering in KOD.

 

It's a shame Jordan didn't manage to keep the same pace going after the first half, but that's a pretty common problem for large fantasy epics.

[ironisles]

Problems with some later books (8-10) is mostly that so many people are stuck in a place or doing a single thing. Mat in Ebou Dar (must not wear lace), Elayne in Caemlyn (thanks Dyelin, tea? Bathing anyone?), Perrin chasing Faile (must add knot), Faile with Aiel (hi there sexy soon-to-be-hammered face), Egwene with Salidar Aes Sedai (thanks Siuan, grr Lelaine and Romanda). This takes longer/more pages than the entire LotR story. The only one doing stuff in this period is Rand. Book ten is hard especially because it deals with timelines NOT Rand catching up. That is to say, everyone in that book is stuck.

 

Still, aside from Perrin's bits I like them.

 

You could skip 90 percent of CoT and not miss anything. On my re-reads I mostly skipped the Perrin-Faile arc.. because it is simply boring...it should have been finished in one book, not stretched out over three. There has been arguments on whether RJ was making lots of filler on these arcs when it wasn't necessary. You can only decide for yourself. And page after page of Elayne's and Eg's politicking, tea, drinking skirt smoothing, baths and clothes descriptions, etc etc.