[ADVANCED/KITCHEN SINK] The Axe or the Hammer - GAME OVER

[SBoydW]

*grumbles incoherently about Eds and birds and being squished*

 

Yeah, I thought that the whole thing with the N2 lists was that they didn't want to reveal who got what list--if Kae was blocked, then they'd only have one list to share, and everyone would know which one Red got, and therefore, the mafia would know who to target to take out whichever list they liked least.

 

That's all been laid out.

 

To be honest then their reasoning is lame. The mafia can just take them both out. Or just one... Neither list is any good by itself so who cares who has what list. Just saying my vote will be going on either red or kae tomorrow I think their both scum.

currently thinking it's you, BG, and Maw myself

 

edit: stopping here for now

so close to being done catching up...

 

oooo... the much disparaged linking...

[WWWwombat]

To paraphrase the war3 community:

 

Linking is fine, l2p

[Nolder]

wait wait

so N1 you viewed Soy and were supposedly switched to Nyn

you got Soys name back though

N2 you...viewed A but got B's name back

 

unless I'm very confused I don't see a discrepancy in the story here

 

I think you are a little confused. I know you're still in the middle of rereading so I won't nag you about me talking about this already. I'll just sum it up to you.

 

Night 1: Levity/Cauthon redirected BG from his initial target (Soy) to me. BG claims he did not get redirected. Both Soy's name and my name appear Red and Kae's list.

 

Night 2: Cauthon redirected Ishy on ed. BG claims he was redirected. We did not receive

whatever list Red got.

 

 

p.s: I bolded what we know for a fact, now that Levity/Cauthon flipped town.

 

 

Hope that helps. =)

 

 

 

 

Nyn

ohhhh yeah I was confused

I see now thanks

[Nolder]

If you think bg and I are scum-buddies, than lynch me and have done with it... That should at least vet bg.If I can't trust that my viewing was correct, than the mod is a bastard.I'm really getting very tired of all this.

 

 

^^ Classic scum tactic, getting frustrated and asking to be lynched. You're not really helping your case, Maw.

I agree

at the risk of sounding scummy for wanting to lynch our "cop" if Maw is protecting BG and both are scum it must mean BG is an important power role and so I'd rather lynch him first

 

besides which I think we get a lot more info from a dead BG than a dead Maw regardless of alignment

sorry Maw but BG has just interacted more with people

you're just kind of hanging around and saying he's innocent

[Nolder]

Maw, your viewing is BG's saving grace at this point. I can't really see you as his teammate which means there is either something wrong with your view(idk how it could be wrong. did Ama say if it was 100%?) or some wacky stuff is going on at night. I just am trying to get my head around his results and how they match up(or don't) with the words of a confirmed by death townie.

you don't see how they could be teammates?

say for example that BG is the roleblocker and Maw is a goon

wouldn't they try to use the goon to vett the roleblocker after the mason team claims?

BG is still working pretty hard to get Red lynched

[Nolder]

Nolder got in between my posts, how sad!

 

Oh well, I hope this helps us in figuring out things after xmas is done with. Till then, I'm gonna go and pass out.

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

 

Nyn

sorry!

even though I'm not going to respond to them (that's be quite a WoT) I promise I did read them

[Nolder]

*grumbles incoherently about Eds and birds and being squished*

 

Yeah, I thought that the whole thing with the N2 lists was that they didn't want to reveal who got what list--if Kae was blocked, then they'd only have one list to share, and everyone would know which one Red got, and therefore, the mafia would know who to target to take out whichever list they liked least.

 

That's all been laid out.

 

To be honest then their reasoning is lame. The mafia can just take them both out. Or just one... Neither list is any good by itself so who cares who has what list. Just saying my vote will be going on either red or kae tomorrow I think their both scum.

currently thinking it's you, BG, and Maw myself

 

edit: stopping here for now

so close to being done catching up...

 

oooo... the much disparaged linking...

I'm ok with that

really it all kind of hinges on BG

I have extremely bad feelings about both you AND Maw but should BG flip town I'll have to reevaluate the entire game

[Nolder]

annnnnd I'm officially caught up

really sorry for all the reply spam and such guys

it's really the only way I'd be able to stay in this game

Merry Christmas!

[Nynaeve]

sorry!

even though I'm not going to respond to them (that's be quite a WoT) I promise I did read them

 

No worries. And yeah, I didn't really expect people to start responding to it, unless there was something specific they'd like to comment on or if they spotted something I didn't. But I do think it's important to read it so I'm glad you took the time to do that.

 

 

 

Nyn

[Netbattler11]

Bah. Guess I can't help it if BG is just playing that badly. I'm not going to help lynch him though.

[bgrishinko]

But Levity wasn't targeted.

 

Also, if anyone is wondering, I'm just camping on this page and reloading it periodically, otherwise I can't get it to load hardly at all.

wait so Levity wasn't targeted (ie roleblocked or redirected/switched) N1?

 

well then BG is lying

period

I see no other explanation

and honestly that kind of solves my Maw issue too since I find his roleclaim the strangest out of anyones so far

a one shot cop check in a game that already has a cop? and a mason watcher/tracker team? and he could use it during the day? ehhhh yeah no

 

he must be a scumbuddy that came to the defense of BG while he was down in order to psuedo counter claim the masons and try to get them lynched

idk that makes more sense to me than the other way around right now

 

I don't have the time to respond to Nyn's case right now. It's mainly rehashing all the stuff I did and pointing why it all makes me super scummy, but I haven't lied about anything.

 

@Nolder Not if they are the liars then is isn't that simple. If nobody believes me, then I see no more reason to hide my results. If Kae and Red are telling the truth they will vet me, if not they will be more than happy to verify I'm lying. Or I will prove they are lying.

 

Yesterday I attempted to view Wombat. I got Meesh as Lightsworn in return. Tonight I'm going to try and view Red, since everyone is clamoring about how that's what I should do.

 

Also Kae and Red, are the list of actions you saw the words people submitted when submitting their actions? Or just words representing the actions picked by Ama?

[Sakaea]

I believe it's words representing the actions picked by our mod goddess. I don't know that for sure, however.

 

At least after you view Red we can hunt for actual scum instead of being distracted by this.

[Nolder]

But Levity wasn't targeted.

 

Also, if anyone is wondering, I'm just camping on this page and reloading it periodically, otherwise I can't get it to load hardly at all.

wait so Levity wasn't targeted (ie roleblocked or redirected/switched) N1?

 

well then BG is lying

period

I see no other explanation

and honestly that kind of solves my Maw issue too since I find his roleclaim the strangest out of anyones so far

a one shot cop check in a game that already has a cop? and a mason watcher/tracker team? and he could use it during the day? ehhhh yeah no

 

he must be a scumbuddy that came to the defense of BG while he was down in order to psuedo counter claim the masons and try to get them lynched

idk that makes more sense to me than the other way around right now

 

I don't have the time to respond to Nyn's case right now. It's mainly rehashing all the stuff I did and pointing why it all makes me super scummy, but I haven't lied about anything.

 

@Nolder Not if they are the liars then is isn't that simple. If nobody believes me, then I see no more reason to hide my results. If Kae and Red are telling the truth they will vet me, if not they will be more than happy to verify I'm lying. Or I will prove they are lying.

 

Yesterday I attempted to view Wombat. I got Meesh as Lightsworn in return.

N1 Levity said she redirected you but you claim you weren't redirected

according to Red/Sakaea Levity was not targeted therefore her power should not have been disrupted in any way

N2 you claim you were redirected but Cuathon says he redirected someone else (Ishy I think?)

he's dead and he and Levity are confirmed town so neither had any motivation to lie

explain how that makes sense please

for N1 either you have to be lying or Red and Sakaea have to be lying right? I see no other way to resolve the inconsistency

[Sakaea]

Yes, please explain that, BG. That's a pretty big inconsistency, and since we recieved both our lists night 1, and I know I'm not lying, I think you're a LLL.

[Nynaeve]

Kae, I do tend to believe your and Red's claim thus far from observation and because I think it would be awfully hard to manage a fib over a role this intricate. But if BG confirms Red as town at this point it could be him just realizing that if he keeps trying to direct the heat your way, it's gonna come back to bite him in the ass. *shrugs*

 

BG, it's a shame that you don't have the time to respond to my casing because I think that referring to at least the main points might have helped us to better understand your actions. But putting my interpretations aside (which are debatable), you can't really argue against what came out of your own mouth during the game. Your only attempt at an explanation of how you claimed not to be redirected on Night 1, when you in fact were.... was an option of someone blocking Levity. And Kae and Red's list thwarts that. You haven't offered any alternative option... and yet you insist that you haven't lied. Well, that claim might have held up before when we couldn't tell who was being less than truthful. But now with Levity's coroner report... it makes it a hell of a lot harder to believe you.

 

 

 

Nyn

[Nynaeve]

oops... got ninja'd by both of ya :P

 

 

 

 

Nyn

[Niniel]

If we leave out your thoughts about me, I think it was a good case Nyn.

[Nynaeve]

If we leave out your thoughts about me, I think it was a good case Nyn.

 

*laughs* Thanks, I guess.

 

Just means I'll be keeping an eye on ya. Thanks for being pretty, btw :P

 

 

 

Nyn

[Niniel]

Thanks, I guess.

[Netbattler11]

I can't seem to decide whether I think Red and Kae are town or not. On the one hand, I don't see why they couldn't be town, this is a kitchen sink game so weird roles are to be expected, and I don't know if scum would put two of themselves out there on a gambit like this... On the other hand, a mason team would be really easy for scum to impersonate, they keep conflicting with someone I know to be town, the cop is conveniently tied up with redirects so he can't vet them one way or another, their results could just be pieced together from guesses and bullcrap, they have little to no chance of conflicting roles, and they have pulled it off rather effectively.

 

On the whole, I think that a VOTE RED is more useful than not. I can't see how their roles are going to help us anymore in the future, as we have already gotten a list of all the roles in the game (supposedly).

[John E. Kelley]

I think it's still Night Maw.

[Nynaeve]

It is still night :P

 

And Maw, it isn't so much Red and Kae conflicting with BG. It's Levit's claims conflicting with BG. After all, the person BG claims to have viewed on night 1 does appear on their list.

 

 

 

Nyn

[bgrishinko]

Ok, I'll address this one thing. I said it before, ill say it again.

 

Night 1: viewed Soy, got Soy as lightsworn. I learned on thread that I was redirected to Nyn. I assume this to be truth and accept that my read on Soy was not conclusive, but it was actually a view of Nyn.

 

Kae and Red reveal. Seems to back up that claim. All is well on the world.

 

Night 2: I submit Wombat and get Meesh is lightsworn. Interesting... I don't want to outright reveal this since it might help me catch the redirector or Kae and Red in a lie. This also makes me start to second guess what happened N1 and Kae and Reds list. So I pressure them both all day. Cuathon claimed not to have redirected me, but rather Ishy and Ed. I play along long enough to hear Ishy claim he is not a vote controller and then return my vote to Cuathon. If I were to believe Red and Kae, then Cuathon was the only active switching role on N1 and therefore I believed either Cuathon or Red+Kae were LLL. Either Cuathon was lying about N2 or the masons were hiding another switching role.

 

In hindsight, knowing that Cuathon wasn't lying convinces me of a few scenarios.

 

N1 I was indeed redirected as claimed and N2 I was hit with a different switching or Bus Driver role, which is slightly different from a redirector. That might explain why N2s response was different, cause it wasn't the same role. Since the N1 list shows no such thing, I assume Red and Kae are LLL. Or, to give them the benifit of the doubt, maybe the scum didn't use the other switching role on N1 therefore it wasn't seen. But I doubt it.

[Nolder]

TL;DR version: Putting aside extreme and unlikely circumstances (such as two redirectors) either BG is lying or Red/Sakaea are lying

 

would you say that's accurate BG?

 

in that case we just need to pick who we believe

I'm still not 100% but I'm leaning strongly in favor of Red/Sakaea being the legit party here as I find BG's general behavior somewhat scummy and Maws claim all but unbelievable given the other role claims we've had thus far

[Red2111]

okay so i'm back. as i posted in the other game i'm in, i'm tiered, i'm jet lagged adn have lots of work to do. i've got 5 pages or so to catch up on this game and was just skimming right now to get a general idea of what was goign on so i can't really post my thoughts now.

 

other than i dislike the finder telling us who he's going to veiw tonight. something like that shoudl be left in the dark imo

 

 

i'll likely be posting my catchup either later today or tomorrow.