Something that occured to me about Rand and Gawyn

[Lews_Windu]

Ever since Gawyn went all nutty with supporting Elaida and psycho-hating Rand, I've sincerely disliked him. At first I just thought it was because Rand is my favorite character and Gawyn is his most constant (and unfair) detractor.

 

Today, though, I was thinking about Gawyn's epiphany in ToM and realized that it all boils down to his function as a foil for Rand. For all of Rand's issues external and internal, the one constant of his character is that he always puts the needs of the many above the needs of himself, even when he really shouldn't- perhaps especially then. Even as Darth Rand, every awful thing he did was driven by a belief that it was the only way to achieve or protect a greater good.

 

Gawyn, on the other hand, is IMO the most selfish character in the entire series. Every single choice he's made has been about his own wants above all other concerns. Why did he support Elaida's coup? Because he was angry at Siuan for putting Elayne and Egwene in danger. His regret over that decision comes not from Elaida's utter failure as a leader and the ruin is causes for much of the Westlands, but from the fact that it puts him in uncomfortable situations. By his own admission, his hatred for Rand comes from child-like jealousy over not being the special one and not at all for the destruction that Rand's presence has caused the Trakands, Andor, and the world in general.

[EpitomyofShyness]

Gawyn, on the other hand, is IMO the most selfish character in the entire series. Every single choice he's made has been about his own wants above all other concerns.

 

Oh my god you just explained perfectly why I despise Gawyn! Thank you so much!

[JKN-SW]

Hadn't thought about it that way, but it is absolutely true!

[Disco]

Wow!!! I was the original Gawyn hater on these boards, many years ago, and no one backed me up.

 

Let's not forget that he stood by and watched Rand get tortured. Galad and Elayne would never have done that.

[Din]

I believe there have been some decisions he made for the good of the Younglings and so on but I think you're largely correct.

[Luckers]

I reguard Gawyn as more self-centred than selfish. He can actually be quite selfless in his actions, but the way he sees everything if through the skien of his own experiences.

[KLF]

I bet he will die saving Rand in some way, just to make everybody love him in the final book :)

[Kahsm]

I guess I agree with Luckers. Selfish doesn't really make sense since most of what he does is about duty and honor, even if misguided. He seemed earnestly willing to give up Egwene to Galad despite how it clearly pained him. Pretty sure he would have attacked Rand on sight before Egwene made him swear not to in Carihien, and have likely died for it. Not really the actions of a selfish person who would only be looking out for himself.

 

But yeah, he's woefully lacking in the big picture.

[Elan Tedronai]

It takes a special case of nutter to kill your own teachers in one night. Never liked gawyn for that.

[Nicook5]

I bet he will die saving Rand in some way, just to make everybody love him in the final book :)

I for one, still won't love him even if he does that. And yeah, killing your teacher. Not cool.

[redmid17]

Gawyn isn't a major enough character to act as a foil to rand, or at least the main one. Perrin has been Rand's foil for almost the entire series. Once Rand embraces being the Dragon Reborn, he never denies his leadership and grows more inhuman with his anger, rage, and sanity. Perrin spent almost the entire series avoiding the responsibility of leading people and generally being a gentle giant. As Rand grows more stable and more caring, Perrin finally comes to grips with leading people and responsibility. It's almost a perfect match as it should be. They are two of the most significant characters in the entire series.

[Jon Paul]

Gawyn isn't a major enough character to act as a foil to rand, or at least the main one. Perrin has been Rand's foil for almost the entire series. Once Rand embraces being the Dragon Reborn, he never denies his leadership and grows more inhuman with his anger, rage, and sanity. Perrin spent almost the entire series avoiding the responsibility of leading people and generally being a gentle giant. As Rand grows more stable and more caring, Perrin finally comes to grips with leading people and responsibility. It's almost a perfect match as it should be. They are two of the most significant characters in the entire series.

 

And that other lad who went with them.. what was his name again? He's some kind of high-ranking noble and the greatest living general alive these days. Ah well, I'm sure it'll come to me.

[redmid17]

Gawyn isn't a major enough character to act as a foil to rand, or at least the main one. Perrin has been Rand's foil for almost the entire series. Once Rand embraces being the Dragon Reborn, he never denies his leadership and grows more inhuman with his anger, rage, and sanity. Perrin spent almost the entire series avoiding the responsibility of leading people and generally being a gentle giant. As Rand grows more stable and more caring, Perrin finally comes to grips with leading people and responsibility. It's almost a perfect match as it should be. They are two of the most significant characters in the entire series.

 

And that other lad who went with them.. what was his name again? He's some kind of high-ranking noble and the greatest living general alive these days. Ah well, I'm sure it'll come to me.

 

Lan is hardly a lad. He's gotta be at least 45 or so.

[Pilz]

I think he means Mat :)

[gloweye]

Gawyn isn't a major enough character to act as a foil to rand, or at least the main one. Perrin has been Rand's foil for almost the entire series. Once Rand embraces being the Dragon Reborn, he never denies his leadership and grows more inhuman with his anger, rage, and sanity. Perrin spent almost the entire series avoiding the responsibility of leading people and generally being a gentle giant. As Rand grows more stable and more caring, Perrin finally comes to grips with leading people and responsibility. It's almost a perfect match as it should be. They are two of the most significant characters in the entire series.

 

And that other lad who went with them.. what was his name again? He's some kind of high-ranking noble and the greatest living general alive these days. Ah well, I'm sure it'll come to me.

 

Lan is hardly a lad. He's gotta be at least 45 or so.

 

 

I think he means Mat :)

 

oh, really?

[baalsmistress]

Well, Prince of the Ravens and husband to the Empress of the Seanchan Empire does kind of count as a noble :)

 

Add in Mat's other title - Son of Battles, his inability to fail when relying on luck, his encyclopedic knowledge of tactics, and his ta'verenness and you have a good claim to him being the greatest living general (probably you don't actually need the word 'living' in there either).