The Center of All

[Darth Tron]

When Mat's eye is "surgically removed" they refer him becoming the center of all (or something to that effect, I do not have a book on me to quote directly). I haven't seen a topic addressing this and it seems important. Anybody got any ideas?

[Suttree]

Here it is...

 

ToM

 

"We shall see," an Eelfinn male growled, eyes lustful. The creature's hand snapped forward, too-sharp nails glittering in the dim light. He drove them directly into the socket around Mat's left eye, then ripped the eye out with a snap.

 

Mat screamed. Light, but it hurt! More than any wound taken in battle, more than any insult or barb. It was as if the creature had pressed its deceitful claws into his mind and soul.

 

Mat fell to his knees, spear clattering to the ground as he raised hands to his face. He felt slickness on his cheek, and he screamed again as his fingers felt the empty hole where his eye had been.

 

He threw his head back and yelled into the room, bellowing in agony.

 

Eelfinn watched with their horrid, almost-human faces, eyes narrowed in ecstasy as they fed on something rising from Mat. An almost invisible vapor of red and white.

 

"The savor!" one Eelfinn exclaimed.

"So long!" cried another.

 

"How it twists around him!" said the one who had taken his eye. "How it spins! Scents of blood in the air! And the gambler becomes the center of all! I can taste fate itself!"

[Lisa Campbell]

Maybe Rand has a choice to make about TG or sealing the DO and he relies on Mat (the Gambler) flipping a coin or some such. He would definately be the centre of all then.

[Rcurran]

At that moment he's giving up half the light to save the world. It was his decision - that's what I thought it meant, ie he was central to the patterns plan to save the world.

 

Nice catch though, I wonder if there is more to it. I like the whole section. Mat's first thought is 'Light!', he calls them deceitful, they start off saying 'we shall see'. It's all very well written - almost demands that we read deeper into it as if there is something hidden between the lines.

[W_A]

I just thought that the Finns were really weird.

[aross]

Good catch Darth. I agree with you... I think there must be more meaning to "center of all" than just that moment.

 

Maybe Mat is Fate, possibly for a brief moment, but one that decides everything.

 

Or maybe it's a reference to his ability to twist fate - "rule" fate through his very nature?

[Owayn The Traveller]

Mat is chance, Perrin is order and Rand is chaos.

 

I think its to do with him twisted the pattern around him and they can feel it.

[jemron]

Mat is chance, Perrin is order and Rand is chaos.

 

I think its to do with him twisted the pattern around him and they can feel it.

Brilliant! Why have I not heard this before?

 

Anyway, will Mat lose his "chance" or luck now that he's lost half of his vision? Will this effect his luck in any way? That white and red that seemed to flow from Mat, could that be the "Dark One's Luck" that Mat had? Did he lose it?

[reson8]

No, Mat still possesses his luck, as evinced by finding the pot for tea, and killing a rabbit without even looking after he lost his eye.

[spoke]

Mat is chance, Perrin is order and Rand is chaos.

 

I think its to do with him twisted the pattern around him and they can feel it.

Brilliant! Why have I not heard this before?

 

Anyway, will Mat lose his "chance" or luck now that he's lost half of his vision? Will this effect his luck in any way? That white and red that seemed to flow from Mat, could that be the "Dark One's Luck" that Mat had? Did he lose it?

 

There are other variations, the preserver(Mat), the destroyer(Rand), and the builder(perrin)

[Lisa Campbell]

Mat is chance, Perrin is order and Rand is chaos.

 

I think its to do with him twisted the pattern around him and they can feel it.

Brilliant! Why have I not heard this before?

 

Anyway, will Mat lose his "chance" or luck now that he's lost half of his vision? Will this effect his luck in any way? That white and red that seemed to flow from Mat, could that be the "Dark One's Luck" that Mat had? Did he lose it?

 

There are other variations, the preserver(Mat), the destroyer(Rand), and the builder(perrin)

 

Both brilliant. Where do they come from? Is it some mythology like the Triple Goddes or something?

[Eht Slat Meit]

I believe that the reference to Mat as the "center of all" can be taken one or both of two ways, the first being more obvious: Moiraine mentions in her description of the 'Finns that in addition to delighting in the consumption of her power, they find ta'veren a special delight.

"They savor and relish powerful emotions. For some reason the effects of ta'veren are even more intoxicating to them. There are other things that they enjoy." (ToM, p832)

Second, there's the "saving the world" half of the "giving up half the light of the world" equation that gets somewhat less mention than Mat's eye. Exactly what is he doing that might save the world? Exchanging his eye for Moiraine and conditions of escape. This suggests to me that Moiraine possesses something (knowledge more likely than the angreal) that will be instrumental to saving the world.

 

At that point, it's only speculation as to what exactly she possesses, but it seems likely to me that Mat is intimately tied up in it. The horn is the obvious possibility, since Moiraine knows where it's kept, but it remains to be seen if that's his next goal. However, it's been said in the books that the horn doesn't show up in the prophecies regarding the Last Battle, and there's really not much to suggest that it will save the world.

 

However, given the dominance the of Norse theme that Mat, Perrin and Rand have been written to, I suspect that its Jordan's unique take on Odin drinking from the well of Wisdom and the world Mat is saving is the world after the Last Battle. And that salvation will happen by way of one of Egwene's dreams that hasn't come to fruition yet:

 

"Mat, weighing two Aes Sedai on a huge set of balance scales, and on his decision depended¦.She could not say what; something vast; the world, perhaps."(TPoD, Ch. 15).

 

I would speculate, based on Mat's rather involved history with the Aes Sedai, that the two women on the scale represent two possible futures of the women of the White Tower - doomed women who represents the future of the White Tower under the rule of his wife, or free women who will take the White Tower as it is to whatever future awaits them. His unique position as Fortuona's husband grants him a special kind of influence, and given what power the White Tower has represented in the past, it's a natural conclusion shape of -everything- in Randland future depends on his attitude and the decisions he makes. Vast, and indeed, the world. One of those future paths would likely represent destruction, with Moiraine as the key to sending him down the right one.

[spoke]

Mat is chance, Perrin is order and Rand is chaos.

 

I think its to do with him twisted the pattern around him and they can feel it.

Brilliant! Why have I not heard this before?

 

Anyway, will Mat lose his "chance" or luck now that he's lost half of his vision? Will this effect his luck in any way? That white and red that seemed to flow from Mat, could that be the "Dark One's Luck" that Mat had? Did he lose it?

 

There are other variations, the preserver(Mat), the destroyer(Rand), and the builder(perrin)

 

Both brilliant. Where do they come from? Is it some mythology like the Triple Goddes or something?

 

try this trimurti

[FarShainMael]

"Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,

wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.

Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,

may learn the truth too late."

 

 

Another triad:

 

Clotho, spinner of the thread of life: Perrin (blacksmiths are makers) or Rand, as above

 

Lachesis, measurer of the thread of life: Mat (son of battles, centre of all), or Perrin

 

Atropos, cutter of the thread of life: Rand (very nearly cut all threads with the CK!) or Mat

 

These are the Fates.. aka the Moirae.

[Feral]

 

Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,

may learn the truth too late."

 

 

 

Hmm if you look at this and then at Mat being called "the center of all" well maybe it's Mat who "turns the Wheel of Time". Although I'd be a bit annoyed if that was the case...

[jemron]

Sorta not related to this thread, but two things:

 

I watched an X-files episode from Season 7 the other day, and the "freak of the week" was this dude who has super good luck, and he is missing an eye. Thought it was cool.

 

The other, more related thing:

 

I've been thinking about Mat's journey through the world of the Ael/Eelfinn and it occurs to me that IF Mat's luck is actually given by the DO (the DO's own luck) and IF it isn't chance, but "help from the DO" that gives Mat his luck power, then could it be possible that the DO orchestrated Mat's involvement in stopping the Snakes and Foxes and somehow "breaking" their world? Could this be a major win for the DO in the long run?

 

In other words, my theory is that the Snakes and Foxes are enemies of the DO, and their link to Randland is directly in opposition to the DO's plans to destroy creation. I know it's a stretch, but, if that's the case, didn't Mat somehow "break" their world? How else could Olver have finally won the game? I think it has to do with something Mat did when he broke the rules and escaped the Tower. Could this be the DO's doing?

[Eht Slat Meit]

Another triad:

 

Clotho, spinner of the thread of life: Perrin (blacksmiths are makers) or Rand, as above

 

Lachesis, measurer of the thread of life: Mat (son of battles, centre of all), or Perrin

 

Atropos, cutter of the thread of life: Rand (very nearly cut all threads with the CK!) or Mat

 

These are the Fates.. aka the Moirae.

 

I'd be more inclined to put that face on Elayne, Aviendha, and Min, and not solely because they're women.

 

Due to the heavy Norse underpinnings to the story's characters, I tend to gravitate towards the idea that they are the Norns, but they could just as easily be those Greek Moirae or the Roman Parcae, all three triads being rough equivalents of each other.

 

More specifically:

Moirae (Greek Fates)

Elayne - - Clotho, Spinning thread, giver of life, somewhat rough association with Andor's role at the fore of TG

Aviendha - Lachesis, Measures the thread of life, roughly equivalent to her role determining the fate of the Aiel

Min - - - Atropos, Cutter of threads, knows the manner of death and when one's time is come, Min's viewings

 

Parcae (Roman Fates)

Elayne - - Nona, goddess of the ninth month, unborn life yet to be, Elayne's national and individual equivalent.

Aviendha - Decima, goddess of childbirth, the life newly born, quadruplets, the new nation of Aiel?

Min - - - Morta, goddess of death, warning of pain/death yet to come, Min's viewings.

 

Norns (Norse Fates/Disir)

Elayne - - Urd, Past ... Perhaps the royal bloodline of Andor doesn't survive her children's coming?

Aviendha - Verthandi, Present... she is the face of what the Aiel are becoming.

Min - - - Skuld, Future ... it is what her visions offer glimpses of, and that role could be perceived as Valkyrie

 

Interesting and possibly irrelevant note that Aviendha is so close to an anagram of Verthandi.

 

Just some random thoughts spun out of my spare time. Loving the speculative possibilities.

[FarShainMael]

I like that!

 

And, of course: Moiraine = Moirae

[Eht Slat Meit]

I like that!

 

And, of course: Moiraine = Moirae

 

Eh, I'm kind of iffy on that. There seems to be a lot of overlap (like Mat as Odin and Heimdallr, or Perrin as Thor and Fenris) between the characters of the Norse mythos in Jordan's take on it, however, and that makes great inspiration for a name.

 

I'm more inclined to put Moiraine as Mimir, the Wisdom of Ages or both. My grasp of Norse mythos isn't keen enough to get the specifics, but Odin sacrifices his eye at Mimisbrunnr to gain the Wisdom of Ages (Moiraine), and Mimir itself, whom the well belongs to, is a decapitated (power-crippled) head with great wisdom that offers Odin counsel.

 

Might be stretching a metaphor, but it feels more like Jordan deliberately mixed things around a bit so that the mythology would come across as too blatant or forced.

[FarShainMael]

He certainly did that.

[Aebram]

"How it twists around him!" said the one who had taken his eye. "How it spins! Scents of blood in the air! And the gambler becomes the center of all! I can taste fate itself!"

 

What about the possibility the Mat has now overtaken Rand as the most powerful Ta'veren? i.e. The driving force behind the wheel. If you take the Eelfinn's savoring craziness out of the quote it reads "How it twists around him! How it spins! And the gambler becomes the center of all!"

[Lisa Campbell]

Very interesting, as this is an area where I have not delved very deep, thanks all!

[Owayn The Traveller]

The Wheel of Time is amazing. Constantly rewards you with some new ideas, thoughts, theories and shadowy reflections of our own myths and legends.

 

The boys are 3 sides of the same coin. Had that in my head since I posted on this thread. Laughing my head off, well not out loud, when it came to me in work. I'm not even sure why I find it funny.

 

Also try this. Batman equals Perrin. Two face equals Mat. Joker equals Rand. From the Dark Knight film.

 

Also I seriously dislike the idea of Mat becoming the main influence on the pattern. Can't see it either. Rand can make the trees bloom and apple to grow. Coolest scene ever there.

 

Ash- Rand I chose you!

Rand uses apple regenerating power.

Morden uses the power of balefire.

Rand is defeated.

 

Yes Ash is the creator.

[Eht Slat Meit]

"How it twists around him!" said the one who had taken his eye. "How it spins! Scents of blood in the air! And the gambler becomes the center of all! I can taste fate itself!"

 

What about the possibility the Mat has now overtaken Rand as the most powerful Ta'veren? i.e. The driving force behind the wheel. If you take the Eelfinn's savoring craziness out of the quote it reads "How it twists around him! How it spins! And the gambler becomes the center of all!"

 

I believe it's entirely probable, though not in the all-encompassing sense that Rand represents. My suspicion is that we're going to be treated to Mat stumbling directly into the center of the final battle between the Seanchan and the White Tower, whatever decision he makes tipping the balance on the two futures of the Aes Sedai, per Egwene's dream.

[Jon Paul]

Hmm if you look at this and then at Mat being called "the center of all" well maybe it's Mat who "turns the Wheel of Time". Although I'd be a bit annoyed if that was the case...

 

The point is no man turns the Wheel, the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills. All men are subject to it and none control it.