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Future Of the Asha'men


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I don't think Rand ever wanted the AM to be considered AS for men. He never liked calling the AM stronghold "The Black Tower" because it implied the AM trying to be AS, among other things.

 

The cultures, methods, and philosophies of the two towers are way to different to be joined anytime soon. For instance:

 

The AS think they need to separate themselves from the world the AM think they should be a part of it.

 

The AS train novices to not touch the OP without a AS or accepted standing over them, the AM make soldiers use the OP at every opportunity even if a AM or dedicated isn't around.

 

The AS think using the OP for manual labor is a waste, the AM disagree (see above point).

 

For AS the OP(saidar) is a unstoppable force that must be submitted to, for AM the OP(saidin) is a constant struggle that must be fought.

 

The AS see the world as a stones board and people are expendable, the AM don't and think no one is expendable.

 

I don't think that's opinion, it's just fact. And Rand probably wasn't happy with the naming of the Black Tower, simply because it was bound to piss the Aes Sedai off.

 

I agree with the rest though. They're extremely different, and I think one of the advantages the BT has is that they have not traditions dictating what is or isn't possible, or what should or shouldn't be done. They're not hampered with obsolete, and sometimes unfair traditions like the Aes Sedai are.

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I think one of the advantages the BT has is that they have not traditions dictating what is or isn't possible, or what should or shouldn't be done. They're not hampered with obsolete, and sometimes unfair traditions like the Aes Sedai are.

 

And because of that "freedom" they are probably just as unpredictable and untrustworthy. There are reasons the Aes Sedai started with the three oaths and the problems they were having before the oaths are what the Asha'man are going to face.

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@yoniy0 thanks for the correction, though i'm still not sure how just the taint effected control.

 

Not that I think the Asha'man will be what fixes the future so much as this is something that might indicate change, I just nevery really liked the position of the BT, and always thought the palace being built next to the WT a fairly uncomplicated forshadowing.

 

Moridin probably doesn't care about the BT but Taim might (providing they are not one and the same of course).

 

Their differences are what makes a Aes Sadai Ash'man partnership so appealing.

 

Nothing is stopping the Asha'man from having a Kin like agreement, the black tower used to be 'the farm' much like the kin's, forshadowing neh? (weak i know)

 

I think we can expect some fierce negotiations soon, and a lot of people will think what Taim said (excuse the paraphrasing)

you can't tell a man he has the power to ...and expect him to walk small.

 

The Aes Sadai aren't likely to give up the oaths, nor except the Asha'man as equals (more than just potential warders) with out this kind of concesion.

 

Oh, and don't they still live to 300 odd? When most people around them die much earlier. The Ash'man have never been afraid of death.

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I think one of the advantages the BT has is that they have not traditions dictating what is or isn't possible, or what should or shouldn't be done. They're not hampered with obsolete, and sometimes unfair traditions like the Aes Sedai are.

 

And because of that "freedom" they are probably just as unpredictable and untrustworthy. There are reasons the Aes Sedai started with the three oaths and the problems they were having before the oaths are what the Asha'man are going to face.

 

I wasn't really talking about the trust, or lack thereof, that people would have for them. I was just saying that this freedom would allow them to innovate and develop new weaves. People might not trust them, but the Ashaman have never cared what people thought about them anyway. Besides, the Last Battle might change how people feel about Ashaman. People who have interacted with Ashaman have already started trusting them more. Overtime, the fear will go away. There's no need for the Ashaman to sacrifice half their lifespan just to make people trust them.

 

@yoniy0 thanks for the correction, though i'm still not sure how just the taint effected control.

 

Not that I think the Asha'man will be what fixes the future so much as this is something that might indicate change, I just nevery really liked the position of the BT, and always thought the palace being built next to the WT a fairly uncomplicated forshadowing.

 

That palace is only at the foundations stage, hardly an empty structure just waiting for people to walk in. And construction is unlikely to have continued now that Egwene is Amyrlin. There's no reason for the Ashaman to move anyway. They're perfectly happy where they are, and the prophecy of the BT being "rent in fire and blood" doesn't say it will be completely wiped off the map. It could suffer some damage, maybe even extensive, but that shouldn't force the Ashaman to move.

 

Their differences are what makes a Aes Sadai Ash'man partnership so appealing.

 

Appealing to readers, not to the Ashaman and Aes Sedai. They hate each other, they don't trust each other, and one group completely looks down on the other as inferiors.

 

Nothing is stopping the Asha'man from having a Kin like agreement, the black tower used to be 'the farm' much like the kin's, forshadowing neh? (weak i know)

 

I think we can expect some fierce negotiations soon, and a lot of people will think what Taim said (excuse the paraphrasing)

you can't tell a man he has the power to ...and expect him to walk small.

 

The Ashaman seem to like their independence, and I really don't think they're about to give up half their lifespans for an agreement with people they don't like in the first place. The Ashaman are rather proud afterall, and I doubt they're going to allow Aes Sedai to gain influence over them.

 

The Aes Sadai aren't likely to give up the oaths, nor except the Asha'man as equals (more than just potential warders) with out this kind of concesion.

 

Neither of the groups cares to work with the other anyway, and there's no way the Ashaman would give up half their lifespan. They might work together from time to time when it's absolutely essential, like for the Last Battle, but apart from that, it'll be a long time before they trust each other enough to really join forces permanently.

 

Oh, and don't they still live to 300 odd? When most people around them die much earlier. The Ash'man have never been afraid of death.

 

There's a difference between not fearing death, and giving up half their lifespan. The fact that they live far longer than normal people will likely just push them towards female channellers who will live much longer as well.

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@Mastar Ablar

 

I know you are very much opposed to the idea of AS and Ashaman joining based on your various replies. But don't you think there has been far too much foreshadowing for it not to happen? I mean it is spelled out fairly clearly.

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@Mastar Ablar

 

I know you are very much opposed to the idea of AS and Ashaman joining based on your various replies. But don't you think there has been far too much foreshadowing for it not to happen? I mean it is spelled out fairly clearly.

 

If it does happen, I don't think it would be very realistic. I really don't remember there being that much foreshadowing for it to happen. I mean there's the whole guardians balance the servants foretelling, but that doesn't say they'll join. There's Elaida's tower of course, but without even considering the feeling of either groups, the Tower simply is not built yet.

 

Besides I don't have a problem with them joining eventually, just not right away. I'd rather they respect each other, and at least somewhat trust each other, before joining.

 

I also really liked Androl's PoV in Working Leather, because he was thinking about how "the streets themselves whispered of the Black Tower's destiny", and other things about how the BT had a great future ahead of it. I always liked that because I feel like it would be better for the Ashaman to have people accept them, perhaps even respect them, rather than them simply join the WT, which might make people think the Aes Sedai had tamed them.

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I think one of the advantages the BT has is that they have not traditions dictating what is or isn't possible, or what should or shouldn't be done. They're not hampered with obsolete, and sometimes unfair traditions like the Aes Sedai are.

 

And because of that "freedom" they are probably just as unpredictable and untrustworthy. There are reasons the Aes Sedai started with the three oaths and the problems they were having before the oaths are what the Asha'man are going to face.

 

I wasn't really talking about the trust, or lack thereof, that people would have for them. I was just saying that this freedom would allow them to innovate and develop new weaves. People might not trust them, but the Ashaman have never cared what people thought about them anyway. Besides, the Last Battle might change how people feel about Ashaman. People who have interacted with Ashaman have already started trusting them more. Overtime, the fear will go away. There's no need for the Ashaman to sacrifice half their lifespan just to make people trust them.

 

Why do you think the fear will go away? Time doesn't seem to have healed anything for the Aes Sedai.

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Seachan are a thorn but no more, after egwene demonstrated how to defeat any attack, link with a few women and become invincible, and if AS get male channelers to link with before the next attack it will be that much more of a joke and a complete defeat that Tuon/Fortuna (hate her new name, but it is more emperess-like). she would run crying to her mommy if her mommy was alive, but she isn't, I don't like her anti-AS attitude. I would like her more if she walked away from innkeeper lady with a little more doubt in the her unjustifiable beliefs, more rational.

 

Avi's vision was before Rand turned to the light-side, so the data was corrupted.

 

yeah right Ishy is trying to protect black tower, and from whom? where did you get that idea? more like he is trying to trap good people inside, remember all those two rivers channelers?

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I think one of the advantages the BT has is that they have not traditions dictating what is or isn't possible, or what should or shouldn't be done. They're not hampered with obsolete, and sometimes unfair traditions like the Aes Sedai are.

 

And because of that "freedom" they are probably just as unpredictable and untrustworthy. There are reasons the Aes Sedai started with the three oaths and the problems they were having before the oaths are what the Asha'man are going to face.

 

I wasn't really talking about the trust, or lack thereof, that people would have for them. I was just saying that this freedom would allow them to innovate and develop new weaves. People might not trust them, but the Ashaman have never cared what people thought about them anyway. Besides, the Last Battle might change how people feel about Ashaman. People who have interacted with Ashaman have already started trusting them more. Overtime, the fear will go away. There's no need for the Ashaman to sacrifice half their lifespan just to make people trust them.

 

Why do you think the fear will go away? Time doesn't seem to have healed anything for the Aes Sedai.

 

The fear that they'll all go crazy and blow everything up I mean.

 

The problem with the Aes Sedai is simply that they mix with normal people. They stay apart. And they've got a whole legend behind them. The Ashaman on the other hand are completely new, and don't have a problem with mixing with normal people. Quite a few of them have wives, and besides their position as simple soldiers, instead of being involved in politics like the Aes Sedai, will probably allow people to relate to them more. The Ashaman are out there risking there butt like regular men, whereas the Aes Sedai are mostly still seen as advisors and manipulators. Apart from being male channellers, Ashaman don't have a reputation to drag behind them. It's the Aes Sedai's history as much as how they currently act which stops people from trusting them.

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I wasn't really talking about the trust, or lack thereof, that people would have for them. I was just saying that this freedom would allow them to innovate and develop new weaves. People might not trust them, but the Ashaman have never cared what people thought about them anyway. Besides, the Last Battle might change how people feel about Ashaman. People who have interacted with Ashaman have already started trusting them more. Overtime, the fear will go away. There's no need for the Ashaman to sacrifice half their lifespan just to make people trust them.

 

Why do you think the fear will go away? Time doesn't seem to have healed anything for the Aes Sedai.

 

I think it will take some time as Rand himself believes in TGS:

 

Rand gritted his teeth, forcing down another burst of anger, his hand forming a fist. He had cleansed the taint! He, Rand al'Thor, had performed a deed the likes of which had not been seen since the Age of Legends. And how was it treated? With suspicion and doubt. Most assumed that he was going mad, and therefore seeing a "cleansing" that had not really happened.

 

Men who could channel were always distrusted. Yet they were the only ones who could confirm what Rand said! He'd imagined joy and wonder at the victory, but he should have known better. Though male Aes Sedai had once been as respected as their female counterparts, that had been long ago. The days of Jorlen Corbesan had been lost in time. All people could remember now was the Breaking and the Madness.

 

They hated male channelers. yet, in following Rand, they served one. Did they not see the contradiction? How could he convince them that there was no longer reason to murder men who could touch the One Power? He needed them! Why, there might be another Jorlen Corbesan among the very men the Sea Folk tossed into the ocean!

 

3,000 years of thinking doesn't change overnight, and this passage spells out how the average person thinks in a very strong way.

Edited by Suttree
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@Mastar Ablar

 

I know you are very much opposed to the idea of AS and Ashaman joining based on your various replies. But don't you think there has been far too much foreshadowing for it not to happen? I mean it is spelled out fairly clearly.

We have the vision Avi sees of the future as almost definitive proof that the Asha'men will remain independant of the Tower. She realizes that she must make Rand not bow to the Crystal Throne to change the future of the Aiel. The Black Tower really has nothing to do with changing the future, their mention was maninly to provide context on how effective the Seanchan were in conquering. Its the dealings with the Seanchan and the Aiel that matter.

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Seachan are a thorn but no more, after egwene demonstrated how to defeat any attack, link with a few women and become invincible, and if AS get male channelers to link with before the next attack it will be that much more of a joke and a complete defeat that Tuon/Fortuna (hate her new name, but it is more emperess-like). she would run crying to her mommy if her mommy was alive, but she isn't, I don't like her anti-AS attitude. I would like her more if she walked away from innkeeper lady with a little more doubt in the her unjustifiable beliefs, more rational.

 

That depends. Egwene faced the Seanchan in close quarters which allowed her to nullify the Damane's numbers. Afterall, in a circle only one person can weave. If you can surround the circle then it's finished. The other channellers in the circle are both defenceless and harmless.

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@Mastar Ablar

 

I know you are very much opposed to the idea of AS and Ashaman joining based on your various replies. But don't you think there has been far too much foreshadowing for it not to happen? I mean it is spelled out fairly clearly.

We have the vision Avi sees of the future as almost definitive proof that the Asha'men will remain independant of the Tower. She realizes that she must make Rand not bow to the Crystal Throne to change the future of the Aiel. The Black Tower really has nothing to do with changing the future, their mention was maninly to provide context on how effective the Seanchan were in conquering. Its the dealings with the Seanchan and the Aiel that matter.

 

I along with the majority of others don't see that future coming to pass. To call it definitive proof is wrong, even possible evidence would be a stretch. It is folly to attempt to glean anything about the Ashaman mentioned only in passing from those visions. Far more useful to go with what the text has been setting up for many books.

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I wasn't really talking about the trust, or lack thereof, that people would have for them. I was just saying that this freedom would allow them to innovate and develop new weaves. People might not trust them, but the Ashaman have never cared what people thought about them anyway. Besides, the Last Battle might change how people feel about Ashaman. People who have interacted with Ashaman have already started trusting them more. Overtime, the fear will go away. There's no need for the Ashaman to sacrifice half their lifespan just to make people trust them.

 

Why do you think the fear will go away? Time doesn't seem to have healed anything for the Aes Sedai.

 

I think it will take some time as Rand himself believes in TGS:

 

Rand gritted his teeth, forcing down another burst of anger, his hand forming a fist. He had cleansed the taint! He, Rand al'Thor, had performed a deed the likes of which had not been seen since the Age of Legends. And how was it treated? With suspicion and doubt. Most assumed that he was going mad, and therefore seeing a "cleansing" that had not really happened.

 

Men who could channel were always distrusted. Yet they were the only ones who could confirm what Rand said! He'd imagined joy and wonder at the victory, but he should have known better. Though male Aes Sedai had once been as respected as their female counterparts, that had been long ago. The days of Jorlen Corbesan had been lost in time. All people could remember now was the Breaking and the Madness.

 

They hated male channelers. yet, in following Rand, they served one. Did they not see the contradiction? How could he convince them that there was no longer reason to murder men who could touch the One Power? He needed them! Why, there might be another Jorlen Corbesan among the very men the Sea Folk tossed into the ocean!

 

3,000 years of thinking doesn't change overnight, and this passage spells out how the average person thinks in a very strong way.

 

It definitely will. Although in Androl's first chapter he mentions, after seeing them play in ditches created by saidin, how children adapt to anything easely. So the actions of the Ashaman in the Last Battle and how much the next generation is aware of them, will have a good deal of importance on how long it takes for the fear to go away. For those who have already lived in fear of male channellers though, it'll probably take quite a bit of time.

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@Mastar Ablar

 

I know you are very much opposed to the idea of AS and Ashaman joining based on your various replies. But don't you think there has been far too much foreshadowing for it not to happen? I mean it is spelled out fairly clearly.

We have the vision Avi sees of the future as almost definitive proof that the Asha'men will remain independant of the Tower. She realizes that she must make Rand not bow to the Crystal Throne to change the future of the Aiel. The Black Tower really has nothing to do with changing the future, their mention was maninly to provide context on how effective the Seanchan were in conquering. Its the dealings with the Seanchan and the Aiel that matter.

 

I along with the majority of others don't see that future coming to pass. To call it definitive proof is wrong, even possible evidence would be a stretch. It is folly to attempt to glean anything about the Ashaman mentioned only in passing from those visions. Far more useful to go with what the text has been setting up for many books.

Of course that future won't happen. Because Avi will change it by affecting some variable regarding the Seanchan and Aiel. That doesn't mean that the other things still won't happen. Avi is still going to have 4 kids that will be able to channel from birth. Or will that not happen as well, because the viewing Min gives only states that something will be different with the children. Based on the future, I can also be certain that Caemlyn will not be sacked by Trollocs and that the Last Battle will be won. Or is that too much of a folly, and that I should only rely on the text? This matter of the future really revolves around Tuon. Jordan stated that he wanted to do outrigger novels involving Tuon and Mat, so we can reasonably sure that Tuon survives the Last Battle, whereas, the future claims that she had an early death.

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@Mastar Ablar

 

I know you are very much opposed to the idea of AS and Ashaman joining based on your various replies. But don't you think there has been far too much foreshadowing for it not to happen? I mean it is spelled out fairly clearly.

We have the vision Avi sees of the future as almost definitive proof that the Asha'men will remain independant of the Tower. She realizes that she must make Rand not bow to the Crystal Throne to change the future of the Aiel. The Black Tower really has nothing to do with changing the future, their mention was maninly to provide context on how effective the Seanchan were in conquering. Its the dealings with the Seanchan and the Aiel that matter.

 

I along with the majority of others don't see that future coming to pass. To call it definitive proof is wrong, even possible evidence would be a stretch. It is folly to attempt to glean anything about the Ashaman mentioned only in passing from those visions. Far more useful to go with what the text has been setting up for many books.

Of course that future won't happen. Because Avi will change it by affecting some variable regarding the Seanchan and Aiel. That doesn't mean that the other things still won't happen. Avi is still going to have 4 kids that will be able to channel from birth. Or will that not happen as well, because the viewing Min gives only states that something will be different with the children. Based on the future, I can also be certain that Caemlyn will not be sacked by Trollocs and that the Last Battle will be won. Or is that too much of a folly, and that I should only rely on the text? This matter of the future really revolves around Tuon. Jordan stated that he wanted to do outrigger novels involving Tuon and Mat, so we can reasonably sure that Tuon survives the Last Battle, whereas, the future claims that she had an early death.

 

All of which has absolutely nothing to do with passing mention of Ashaman fighting a guerilla war. What is folly is exactly what I said, attempting to use the vision that as you yourself admit is clearly in transition, as proof that the Ashaman will not join the AS when it has been forshadowed in the text for quite some time.

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I wasn't really talking about the trust, or lack thereof, that people would have for them. I was just saying that this freedom would allow them to innovate and develop new weaves. People might not trust them, but the Ashaman have never cared what people thought about them anyway. Besides, the Last Battle might change how people feel about Ashaman. People who have interacted with Ashaman have already started trusting them more. Overtime, the fear will go away. There's no need for the Ashaman to sacrifice half their lifespan just to make people trust them.

 

Why do you think the fear will go away? Time doesn't seem to have healed anything for the Aes Sedai.

 

I think it will take some time as Rand himself believes in TGS:

 

Rand gritted his teeth, forcing down another burst of anger, his hand forming a fist. He had cleansed the taint! He, Rand al'Thor, had performed a deed the likes of which had not been seen since the Age of Legends. And how was it treated? With suspicion and doubt. Most assumed that he was going mad, and therefore seeing a "cleansing" that had not really happened.

 

Men who could channel were always distrusted. Yet they were the only ones who could confirm what Rand said! He'd imagined joy and wonder at the victory, but he should have known better. Though male Aes Sedai had once been as respected as their female counterparts, that had been long ago. The days of Jorlen Corbesan had been lost in time. All people could remember now was the Breaking and the Madness.

 

They hated male channelers. yet, in following Rand, they served one. Did they not see the contradiction? How could he convince them that there was no longer reason to murder men who could touch the One Power? He needed them! Why, there might be another Jorlen Corbesan among the very men the Sea Folk tossed into the ocean!

 

3,000 years of thinking doesn't change overnight, and this passage spells out how the average person thinks in a very strong way.

 

It definitely will. Although in Androl's first chapter he mentions, after seeing them play in ditches created by saidin, how children adapt to anything easely. So the actions of the Ashaman in the Last Battle and how much the next generation is aware of them, will have a good deal of importance on how long it takes for the fear to go away. For those who have already lived in fear of male channellers though, it'll probably take quite a bit of time.

 

I mean why do you think Asha'man are immune to self-important, ideological, and inept leadership? You just seem so certain they're incapable of making similar mistakes as Aes Sedai. You don't think some Asha'man will start thinking "hey, we're pretty awesome, why should we live with these people when we should be ruling them"?

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I along with the majority of others don't see that future coming to pass.

Right there with you, though admittedly there's a strong component of wishful thinking in that.

 

To call it definitive proof is wrong, even possible evidence would be a stretch.

But here you go too far. It's proof enough that a version of the future exists where the two don't join. I'd say it would almost have to be a likely future (perhaps on the same level as a Dream?), otherwise why would the ter'angreal bother showing it? Surely that qualifies as 'evidence'? :smile:

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To call it definitive proof is wrong, even possible evidence would be a stretch.

But here you go too far. It's proof enough that a version of the future exists where the two don't join. I'd say it would almost have to be a likely future (perhaps on the same level as a Dream?), otherwise why would the ter'angreal bother showing it? Surely that qualifies as 'evidence'? :smile:

 

Come on Yoniy0, my point stands. You would not use that as evidence to show "definitive proof" that the Ashaman will not join the AS.

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I wasn't really talking about the trust, or lack thereof, that people would have for them. I was just saying that this freedom would allow them to innovate and develop new weaves. People might not trust them, but the Ashaman have never cared what people thought about them anyway. Besides, the Last Battle might change how people feel about Ashaman. People who have interacted with Ashaman have already started trusting them more. Overtime, the fear will go away. There's no need for the Ashaman to sacrifice half their lifespan just to make people trust them.

 

Why do you think the fear will go away? Time doesn't seem to have healed anything for the Aes Sedai.

 

I think it will take some time as Rand himself believes in TGS:

 

Rand gritted his teeth, forcing down another burst of anger, his hand forming a fist. He had cleansed the taint! He, Rand al'Thor, had performed a deed the likes of which had not been seen since the Age of Legends. And how was it treated? With suspicion and doubt. Most assumed that he was going mad, and therefore seeing a "cleansing" that had not really happened.

 

Men who could channel were always distrusted. Yet they were the only ones who could confirm what Rand said! He'd imagined joy and wonder at the victory, but he should have known better. Though male Aes Sedai had once been as respected as their female counterparts, that had been long ago. The days of Jorlen Corbesan had been lost in time. All people could remember now was the Breaking and the Madness.

 

They hated male channelers. yet, in following Rand, they served one. Did they not see the contradiction? How could he convince them that there was no longer reason to murder men who could touch the One Power? He needed them! Why, there might be another Jorlen Corbesan among the very men the Sea Folk tossed into the ocean!

 

3,000 years of thinking doesn't change overnight, and this passage spells out how the average person thinks in a very strong way.

 

It definitely will. Although in Androl's first chapter he mentions, after seeing them play in ditches created by saidin, how children adapt to anything easely. So the actions of the Ashaman in the Last Battle and how much the next generation is aware of them, will have a good deal of importance on how long it takes for the fear to go away. For those who have already lived in fear of male channellers though, it'll probably take quite a bit of time.

 

I mean why do you think Asha'man are immune to self-important, ideological, and inept leadership? You just seem so certain they're incapable of making similar mistakes as Aes Sedai. You don't think some Asha'man will start thinking "hey, we're pretty awesome, why should we live with these people when we should be ruling them"?

 

Well, yeah, my reasoning is kind of counting on the Ashaman remaining good people... I mean sure if some Ashaman came to power and he happened to be a tyran then sure things could take a turn for the worse, but as long as the Ashaman hold to their principles then there shouldn't be a problem. In fact if they don't hold to their principles then they can't be Ashaman, in other words protectors of just causes, anymore.

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For them to be truely protectors of just causes then adopting oaths to that effect shouldn't be an issue for them.

 

What would that oath be anyway?

 

If they do infact want to be Asha'man and not random male channalers (interesting that this never seems to be an option for channellers full stop) then in the current age adopting binding oaths does seem to be the excepted method.

 

Indeed if the Ahsa'man are that much closer to the world around them then leading lives of seven hundred odd years (or what ever) isn't going to help. Who wants to live forever, right? :biggrin:

 

There are two main points against maintaining the BT in it's current location

1. It's largely Taim's creation.

2. It's in Andor and we know how Elayne loves independent territories in her domain.

 

I would never call anything from the pillars difinitive proof, but in terms of the story it feels like it might be set up for something different to happen, if only to suggest the possibility.

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For them to be truely protectors of just causes then adopting oaths to that effect shouldn't be an issue for them.

 

I don't think there's any particular need for them to take oaths, but if they do, there's certainly no need for those oaths to shorten their lives.

 

If they do infact want to be Asha'man and not random male channalers (interesting that this never seems to be an option for channellers full stop) then in the current age adopting binding oaths does seem to be the excepted method.

 

The accepted method for Aes Sedai. The Wise Ones and Windfinders don't. There is no reason for the Ashaman to take oaths that shorten their lives. In fact the Aes Sedai didn't know that the oaths shortened their lives in the first place. Not to mention the fact that those oaths haven't really worked like they're supposed to anyway.

 

Indeed if the Ahsa'man are that much closer to the world around them then leading lives of seven hundred odd years (or what ever) isn't going to help. Who wants to live forever, right? :biggrin:

 

That's for the Ashaman to choose. Admitedly the fact that they live so much longer than non-channellers probably means they'll end up spending their lives with other channellers, instead of non-channellers who they'll be forced to see die.

 

There are two main points against maintaining the BT in it's current location

1. It's largely Taim's creation.

 

What is? The BT is said to ressemble any other common village in Andor (apart from the fact that there are a bunch of Ashaman there of course). Taim's done a lot for the BT, but he can't do everything. He's responsible for the Ashaman becoming what they are, but I don't see what that has to do with the location of the BT. He's got his palace and he's probably not all that interested in what happens to the rest of the BT. The other Ashaman however, such as Androl seem quite attached to the BT.

 

2. It's in Andor and we know how Elayne loves independent territories in her domain.

 

Yes, and I expect there would eventually be conflict over this. But Elayne herself has admitted that she really doesn't have any power over the BT. The most she can do is refuse them access to Caemlyn, but if an Ashaman wants to in then all he needs to do is take off his black coat, and he looks like anybody else. Ultimately, Elayne could make herself a nuissance, but that's about it. She has no power to force them out. No power to force them to do anything really.

Edited by Master Ablar
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I think the Asha'Man will be another Warder-esque addition to the Aes Sedai ranks personally. Once the women realize the extreme benefit of working together with men, you will see Asha'man more and more being " bonded " and becoming warders of the women. Less foot soldiers, more power wielding counterparts.

 

Guardian could easily become the staple of the new warder Asha'man. Guardians of their Aes Sedai. While the Aes Sedai are the " protectors of all ". I do not see them taking oaths though, unless the Aes Sedai force that issue.

 

With the future that Avi saw, I HIGHLY doubt the Seachan are left alone in the last book. I fully expect the Aeil and the Aes Sedai to take the battle straight to them. Especially when the 2nd attack occurs on the White Tower. That will be the last straw. Rand will most likely go out and do his thing in the blight, but the rest of the world will send their eyes to the Seachan empire. The risk is far too great to the future of the world to allow that empire to keep gaining strength while the rest of the worlds attention is on the last battle.

 

There is of course a small matter of Matt and his " relationship " with the Empress. He could somehow talk her into changing the ways of the Seachan, atleast on the surface. And what happens if the secret of the Damane and Sul'Dam are revealed to the whole of the empire? That is something Matt could easily do without think much on the matter.

 

Then of course there is Moraine. She will have a major role. I think it will be Moraine and Nyneave with Rand in the end. Both of those women he trusts above all others.

 

I for one am incredibly excited about all the potential of Book 14. So many different things COULD happen. I for one really do hope that the Seachan get absolutely crushed in the last book with no hope of Avi's future coming to pass.

 

Asha'man though. They are already infiltrated by a Dreamspike or lance or whatever, which is causing the problem with gateways. So there is def. a Forsaken member there. Likely it is Taim himself from the looks of it. But we shall see. I think the idea of Asha'man warders to Aes Sedai is too juicy for the aes sedai to ignore though. Especially when the full power of Saidan and Saidar is revealed to all.

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I think the Asha'Man will be another Warder-esque addition to the Aes Sedai ranks personally. Once the women realize the extreme benefit of working together with men, you will see Asha'man more and more being " bonded " and becoming warders of the women. Less foot soldiers, more power wielding counterparts.

 

Guardian could easily become the staple of the new warder Asha'man. Guardians of their Aes Sedai. While the Aes Sedai are the " protectors of all ". I do not see them taking oaths though, unless the Aes Sedai force that issue.

 

With the future that Avi saw, I HIGHLY doubt the Seachan are left alone in the last book. I fully expect the Aeil and the Aes Sedai to take the battle straight to them. Especially when the 2nd attack occurs on the White Tower. That will be the last straw. Rand will most likely go out and do his thing in the blight, but the rest of the world will send their eyes to the Seachan empire. The risk is far too great to the future of the world to allow that empire to keep gaining strength while the rest of the worlds attention is on the last battle.

 

There is of course a small matter of Matt and his " relationship " with the Empress. He could somehow talk her into changing the ways of the Seachan, atleast on the surface. And what happens if the secret of the Damane and Sul'Dam are revealed to the whole of the empire? That is something Matt could easily do without think much on the matter.

 

Then of course there is Moraine. She will have a major role. I think it will be Moraine and Nyneave with Rand in the end. Both of those women he trusts above all others.

 

I for one am incredibly excited about all the potential of Book 14. So many different things COULD happen. I for one really do hope that the Seachan get absolutely crushed in the last book with no hope of Avi's future coming to pass.

 

Asha'man though. They are already infiltrated by a Dreamspike or lance or whatever, which is causing the problem with gateways. So there is def. a Forsaken member there. Likely it is Taim himself from the looks of it. But we shall see. I think the idea of Asha'man warders to Aes Sedai is too juicy for the aes sedai to ignore though. Especially when the full power of Saidan and Saidar is revealed to all.

 

And do the Ashaman have any say in whether or not they will become warders?

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