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Logain - Where the heck is he?


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I am re-reading Towers of Midnight and one of the more perplexing questions I have (and there are several, as you all know) is WHERE DID LOGAIN GO? Even Rand does not know where he is, so that takes away the possibility that he and Logain are plotting something together. And, if they were purposely keeping this a secret, why would he send Naeff to check on the Black Tower? I can only think of a two possibilities, but neither of them are rock solid:

 

1. He has been captured by the Shadow. Certainly possible, but since we know he has "Great Glory" in his future, he is not dead. And if I were the bad guys, I would either turn him to the shadow forcibly or kill him. If he has been turned to the shadow, then how will he get his "glory"?

 

2. He is plotting something on his own. The only thing here that makes sense is if he is plotting to take the Black Tower back from Taim. If this is the case, he would likely need a lot of Asha'man and Aes Sedai. How could he keep that a secret from everyone?

 

Any other ideas here? This is one that just doesn't make any sense to me.

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Wasn't the last time we saw him directly in the story when the DR, Logain and several AS fought the 100K+ shadowspawn at the minor Lord's country estate in Tear? That's the last time I remember anyway. Maybe he was sent to the Sea Folk after that, but I can't recall the chronological order of those events. >(

I do think that a big part of this is the disparate timelines among the different stories, so Logain's story, the AS from the white tower under Elaida (at hte BT) and the AS from the rebel faction (also at the BT) still need to catch up to the latest events related in Towers of Midnight.

 

At any rate, I don't recall Logain meeting with the Rand since he became 'Dark Blinder'. That is important because Logain had told Rand about Taim's actions at the Black Tower, apparently hoping to get Rand's aid in turning the situation around. As readers, our last understanding was that Logain wouldn't get Rand's assistance because it wasn't high enough on Rand's priority list.

 

Having said that, I think it fits that Logain would be independently planning something to forcibly take the Black tower from Taim, using only his faction of the Asha'man, which includes the 50 forcibly bonded Aes Sedai.

 

As an aside, it took me quite awhile to stop having "hair re-growth formula" thoughts when seeing his name in story.

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As an aside, it took me quite awhile to stop having "hair re-growth formula" thoughts when seeing his name in story.

 

Chuckling

 

3. He surrenders to compassion and is trying to save some Amayar after he is last seen with the Seafolk at Illian. He could have found valuable information to impart to Rand at FoM. Also this would have been pointless to mention in the chapter about news to make an anchor weep if they are not to be seen in AMoL. If it wasn't important, Logain would have imparted Rand's orders and carried on.

 

That ties in with a pet theory of mine of the Ogier bringing the Nym back from their alternate dimension some time in the future.

 

What does Amayar mean? Does anyone know?

 

I don't recall ever seeing it in the books but it is possible that they were Dai'shan before the Dark One got loose and the Breaking occurred. They seem to be a peaceful people and asked the Seafolk ie. Windfinders (channelers) to protect them long ago. Like another offshoot similar to the Tinkers. Perhaps they are the remnant of a remnant? Perhaps the Ogier bring them back along with the Nym at the appropriate time in the next turning of the Wheel?

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According to EncWoT, he is last seen in TGS Prologue. He's in the group when Rand returns the sul'dam and damane who were with Anath/Semirhage to Ebou Dar. We see this from the PoV of Falendre, one of the sul'dam, who Rand gives a message for the DotNM. Possibly he also gives Logain some instructions.

Edited by FarShainMael
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You know what, Im tempted to think he took his loyals to Salidar because its now well known for the rebels NOT being there. A temporary base, safehaven to prepare for the imminent BT standoff. But its only a gut feeling

Edited by Drekka Mort
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According to EncWoT, he is last seen in TGS Prologue. He's in the group when Rand returns the sul'dam and damane who were with Anath/Semirhage to Ebou Dar. We see this from the PoV of Falendre, one of the sul'dam, who Rand gives a message for the DotNM. Possibly he also gives Logain some instructions.

 

I think it is also mentioned that Rand does not know where Logain is either. According to wot.wikia, it is states:

 

Logain mysteriously goes missing sometime after this incident (Semirhage acting as Tuon). Rand suspects something may have happened to him.

 

I do not know exactly where this is referenced in the books, but if this is true, something major is going on with Logain. He has been gone for weeks.. maybe a couple of months, where no one we have a POV from knows where he is. Very odd.

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According to EncWoT, he is last seen in TGS Prologue. He's in the group when Rand returns the sul'dam and damane who were with Anath/Semirhage to Ebou Dar. We see this from the PoV of Falendre, one of the sul'dam, who Rand gives a message for the DotNM. Possibly he also gives Logain some instructions.

 

I think it is also mentioned that Rand does not know where Logain is either. According to wot.wikia, it is states:

 

Logain mysteriously goes missing sometime after this incident (Semirhage acting as Tuon). Rand suspects something may have happened to him.

 

I do not know exactly where this is referenced in the books, but if this is true, something major is going on with Logain. He has been gone for weeks.. maybe a couple of months, where no one we have a POV from knows where he is. Very odd.

 

I don't remember Rand ever suspecting that something may have happened to him. However according to ToM when he Naeff to the BT, he believes that Logain is at the BT. Which he is not. So whatever he is doing and wherever he is, it doesn't appear to be on Rand's orders.

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According to EncWoT, he is last seen in TGS Prologue. He's in the group when Rand returns the sul'dam and damane who were with Anath/Semirhage to Ebou Dar. We see this from the PoV of Falendre, one of the sul'dam, who Rand gives a message for the DotNM. Possibly he also gives Logain some instructions.

 

I think it is also mentioned that Rand does not know where Logain is either. According to wot.wikia, it is states:

 

Logain mysteriously goes missing sometime after this incident (Semirhage acting as Tuon). Rand suspects something may have happened to him.

 

I do not know exactly where this is referenced in the books, but if this is true, something major is going on with Logain. He has been gone for weeks.. maybe a couple of months, where no one we have a POV from knows where he is. Very odd.

 

I don't remember Rand ever suspecting that something may have happened to him. However according to ToM when he Naeff to the BT, he believes that Logain is at the BT. Which he is not. So whatever he is doing and wherever he is, it doesn't appear to be on Rand's orders.

 

Rand actually gives Naeff instructions on a message for Logain. So, it's obvious he assumes Logain is at the Black Tower.. and we know he is not, unless he is in disguse.

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a_lilly_in_winter posted the below as a new topic by mistake:

 

"Androl had been worrying for weeks now. Ever since Logain had left in the night. Where had he gone? Why had he taken Donalo, Mezar and Welyn---three of the most powerful Dedicated loyal to him---along?"

Androl's p.o.v. in ToM p. 682

 

Later, in "Something Wrong" (p. 818) in T.o.M., Mezar reappears in the BT but he has been turned to the shadow, presumably by the 13/13 trick.

------------------------

 

Some clarification here.. Logain left with Donalo, Mezar and Welyn but they all were with Rand when he met the fake Tuon. The Wheel of Time Wike explains it best:

 

"Mezar bonded Adrielle unwillingly, although they have now become fond of each other. He has Traveled to Tear to join up with Logain and Rand. He watches Rand's meeting with the Daughter of the Nine Moons from a distance and Travels in as back up when it is revealed that the Daughter of the Nine Moons is actually Semirhage.

 

In Towers of Midnight, he is sent back to the Black Tower, and then he becomes one of Mazrim Taim's favourites. His eyes also change, look different, and his smile is wrong. Most likely, he was turned to the Dark One by thirteen Myrddraal and thirteen Dreadlords."

 

So, my guess here is that Mezar came back to the Black Tower on his own, and was accosted by Taim and his lackeys and turned. The reference to Logain leaving with Mezar, Donalo and Welyn is when they joined up with Rand in Tear.

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Thanks for that clarification about the asha'man that left with Logain. I suspected something of that sort and I looked for it but obviously I didn't read far enough. Have we seen any of the others mentioned? I can't keep track.

 

For some reason I am having a harder time keeping track of what happened in the last few books that I could in the previous books. Part of the problem is the time line. Rand visits Egwene and says that he will meet her in a month. Then the next day he goes to Arad Doman, then soon after he visits the borderlanders then the next day is the day he meets with Egwene. Verin's timeline is just as messed up. In her letter she says she plans to return the next day and that the shadow will attack within a month; yet neither are remotely possible.

 

In any case the disappearance of Logain is troubling and would be more so except for Min's viewing.

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Rand actually gives Naeff instructions on a message for Logain. So, it's obvious he assumes Logain is at the Black Tower.. and we know he is not, unless he is in disguse.

 

Or is imprisoned by Taim.

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Rand actually gives Naeff instructions on a message for Logain. So, it's obvious he assumes Logain is at the Black Tower.. and we know he is not, unless he is in disguse.

 

Or is imprisoned by Taim.

 

That would be sweeeeet

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Rand actually gives Naeff instructions on a message for Logain. So, it's obvious he assumes Logain is at the Black Tower.. and we know he is not, unless he is in disguse.

 

Or is imprisoned by Taim.

 

That would be sweeeeet

 

That would just be odd if he was imprisoned by Taim. Seems like they would either turn him or kill him.. imprisonment doesn't make sense. It makes more sense that Logain is planning something major.. perhaps an assault against Taim. I am curious how Mezar was captured as well. Donalo and Welyn are unnacounted for as well - so they are either with Logain, Rand or captured.

 

Something else to consider is that Logain has bonded 2 Aes Sedai. If he were captured, they would also need to have been captured or killed or they would likely raise an alarm. Of a more curious note is that Mezar (who we know has been 13x13'd) also bonded an Aes Sedai (Adrielle) and they have become "fond of each other". I wonder where she is? Surely, the warder bond would reveal the trauma of being captured and turned to the Shadow by 13 evil dreadlords channeling through 13 Myrddraal. I wonder what the effect on the Warder bond this has? What does it do to the Warder (in this case a female channeler)?

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Rand actually gives Naeff instructions on a message for Logain. So, it's obvious he assumes Logain is at the Black Tower.. and we know he is not, unless he is in disguse.

 

Or is imprisoned by Taim.

 

That would be sweeeeet

 

That would just be odd if he was imprisoned by Taim. Seems like they would either turn him or kill him.. imprisonment doesn't make sense. It makes more sense that Logain is planning something major.. perhaps an assault against Taim. I am curious how Mezar was captured as well. Donalo and Welyn are unnacounted for as well - so they are either with Logain, Rand or captured.

 

Something else to consider is that Logain has bonded 2 Aes Sedai. If he were captured, they would also need to have been captured or killed or they would likely raise an alarm.

 

I agree the agenda would more likely be to turn or kill him, I just thought the idea of Taim capturing Logain was cool lol. But yeah, tee only likely situation I can see him being held captive is if for some reason Taim had to for some reason wait for more Myrdraal. I doubt that would happen though. Myrdraal cant pass through One Power gateways, but what about True Power gateways?

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its only been a few weeks since we saw him, and we don't know what his orders from rand were after he spoke to the seafolk. but if he didn't have any orders, maybe he noticed he couldn't open a gateway to the black tower and is trying to gather those he can to go in on foot. but what if he has learned inverted weaves (something rand knows as well). he could already be in the black tower or in the camp outside it. trying to nail down where he is, seems kinda pointless though. he has been off-screen around 6 weeks, not much time. he could be anywhere, the main question is what is he doing. i really doubt rand sent him off to the tuatha'an without telling him what to do after. but i think he's waiting for loial to get done at the stump, the rand of the last known time that he might have spoken to logain would have wanted to lock him down, waiting on loial would have done just that, not to mention he could speak on rand's behalf to the ogier.

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Rand actually gives Naeff instructions on a message for Logain

 

I read that as: Rand actually gives Naeff instructions on a massage for Logain.

 

So yeah, Logain's nowhere to be seen because he's just too damn relaxed to involve himself in the fight with the Shadow.

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its only been a few weeks since we saw him, and we don't know what his orders from rand were after he spoke to the seafolk. but if he didn't have any orders, maybe he noticed he couldn't open a gateway to the black tower and is trying to gather those he can to go in on foot. but what if he has learned inverted weaves (something rand knows as well). he could already be in the black tower or in the camp outside it. trying to nail down where he is, seems kinda pointless though. he has been off-screen around 6 weeks, not much time. he could be anywhere, the main question is what is he doing. i really doubt rand sent him off to the tuatha'an without telling him what to do after. but i think he's waiting for loial to get done at the stump, the rand of the last known time that he might have spoken to logain would have wanted to lock him down, waiting on loial would have done just that, not to mention he could speak on rand's behalf to the ogier.

 

Actually, it's been closer to 3 months (80+ days) since we last saw Logain.

His last appearance was the tSG prologue when Rand sends the captured sul'dam and damane back to Ebou Dar.

 

According to every timeline I have found:

Apr 9th - tSG Prologue, Rand sends the captured Seanchan back to Ebou Dar

June 2nd - tSG 50, Rand has his Epiphany on top of Dragonmount

July 3rd or 4th - tOm 56, Rand arrives at the FoM

 

yoniy0 and I had a pretty good conversation about it all here actually http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/62724-lan-saved-by-logain/page__st__20

Edited by Finnssss
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Actually, it's been closer to 3 months (80+ days) since we last saw Logain.

 

 

suppose that's about twice as long as i thought =\ woops.

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Actually, it's been closer to 3 months (80+ days) since we last saw Logain.

 

 

suppose that's about twice as long as i thought =\ woops.

 

 

No, no, it's easy to get confused, mostly because of how far behind the BT timeline is at different times through ToM.

Even at the end of ToM, the BT timeline is still weeks behind the main(confirmed by BS), maybe even just over a month. Like when Androl knocks on Pevara's door might even be just before Rand goes to DM. Androl's previous PoV "Working Leather" is even further back by weeks, not days.

No guarantees here, but you would think that there would of been some mention of the amount of Saidin Rand was using on top of DM. That's something the whole BT would of noticed and been a buzz about you would think.

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Logain is planning to take back the BT. Naeff meeting with him will be the final push and Logain will attack.

 

If Logain was captured, he would have turned and would be at Taim's side and Min's prophecy would not happen, which is of course impossible.

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I wonder if Logain and Imaran are communinicating because Logain needs final intelligence before the assault. I would think that would be the prologue of AMoL since I would think most of the book will be a progression since the FoM.

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Just saw this on Brandon's twitter.

 

Hey Brandon - I always thought Logain had a cool character arc. How much of him do we see in AMOL?@BrandSanderson

 

 

BrandSanderson Brandon Sanderson

@Bmueller11 He will be seen. How much, or in what capacity, would be a spoiler, I'm afraid.

Oct 06, 3:31 PM via web

In reply to…

 

So, at least we know he is not dead. Ha, however, I don't think that is much of a surprise.

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The BT timeline is still behind, as can be seen by Graendal's encounter with Moridin a the beginning of ToM. She sees the dreamspike (note the singular) and is amazed that Moridin has acquired 2 of them. When Grady announces to Perrin that travelling to the BT doesn't work, it is safe to assume that the DSPIKE has been in place for some time... but only after Androl works with leather. I think that when the physical fortifications were completed around the BT, the spike was activated. This puts the BT timeline about a month behind, as Perrin's showdown with Slayer and destruction of the other spike occurred within a week of FoM (derived from interactions between Eggy and Gawyn after the bonding).

 

Because of this, the resolution of the BT and Logaine's reappearance should be early in aMoL.

 

Maybe he's hiding out at Farmer Bunt's house, or frolicking with Else Grinwell in a haystack.

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  • 4 weeks later...

a_lilly_in_winter posted the below as a new topic by mistake:

 

"Androl had been worrying for weeks now. Ever since Logain had left in the night. Where had he gone? Why had he taken Donalo, Mezar and Welyn---three of the most powerful Dedicated loyal to him---along?"

Androl's p.o.v. in ToM p. 682

 

Later, in "Something Wrong" (p. 818) in T.o.M., Mezar reappears in the BT but he has been turned to the shadow, presumably by the 13/13 trick.

------------------------

 

Some clarification here.. Logain left with Donalo, Mezar and Welyn but they all were with Rand when he met the fake Tuon. The Wheel of Time Wike explains it best:

 

"Mezar bonded Adrielle unwillingly, although they have now become fond of each other. He has Traveled to Tear to join up with Logain and Rand. He watches Rand's meeting with the Daughter of the Nine Moons from a distance and Travels in as back up when it is revealed that the Daughter of the Nine Moons is actually Semirhage.

 

In Towers of Midnight, he is sent back to the Black Tower, and then he becomes one of Mazrim Taim's favourites. His eyes also change, look different, and his smile is wrong. Most likely, he was turned to the Dark One by thirteen Myrddraal and thirteen Dreadlords."

 

So, my guess here is that Mezar came back to the Black Tower on his own, and was accosted by Taim and his lackeys and turned. The reference to Logain leaving with Mezar, Donalo and Welyn is when they joined up with Rand in Tear.

 

On my re-read, I've reached ACoS25, where Moggy is put under the control of a cour'souvra. She is let out of her vacuole-prison and meets Moridin, who has her cour'souvra and another on a chain round his neck. She thinks of the danger she is in:

 

{Moridin} reached into the open neck of his shirt, and her own tongue clove to the roof of her mouth. Her eyes fixed on the small cage of gold wire and blood-red crystal that he drew out dangling on a cord. She thought vaguely that he tucked another just like it back in, but she had eyes only for her own. It definitely was hers. His thumb stroked, and she felt that caress across her mind, her soul. Breaking a mindtrap did not require much more pressure than he was using. She could be on the other side of the world or farther, and it would not matter a hair. The part of her that was her would be separated; she would still see with her eyes and hear with her ears, taste what crossed her tongue and feel what touched her, but helpless within an automaton that was utterly obedient to whoever held the cour’souvra. Whether or not there was any way to get free of it, a mindtrap was just what its name implied.

 

Compare this with the description of Mezar, in ToM56:

 

{Androl} saw what Norley had seen. Something was deeply wrong, something not-quite-alive inside those eyes. This didn't seem to be a man, but a parody of one. A shadow stuffed inside human skin.

 

(emphasis mine)

 

I wonder if Morry has added a few more cour'souvra to his collection..

Edited by FarShainMael
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a_lilly_in_winter posted the below as a new topic by mistake:

 

"Androl had been worrying for weeks now. Ever since Logain had left in the night. Where had he gone? Why had he taken Donalo, Mezar and Welyn---three of the most powerful Dedicated loyal to him---along?"

Androl's p.o.v. in ToM p. 682

 

Later, in "Something Wrong" (p. 818) in T.o.M., Mezar reappears in the BT but he has been turned to the shadow, presumably by the 13/13 trick.

------------------------

 

Some clarification here.. Logain left with Donalo, Mezar and Welyn but they all were with Rand when he met the fake Tuon. The Wheel of Time Wike explains it best:

 

"Mezar bonded Adrielle unwillingly, although they have now become fond of each other. He has Traveled to Tear to join up with Logain and Rand. He watches Rand's meeting with the Daughter of the Nine Moons from a distance and Travels in as back up when it is revealed that the Daughter of the Nine Moons is actually Semirhage.

 

In Towers of Midnight, he is sent back to the Black Tower, and then he becomes one of Mazrim Taim's favourites. His eyes also change, look different, and his smile is wrong. Most likely, he was turned to the Dark One by thirteen Myrddraal and thirteen Dreadlords."

 

So, my guess here is that Mezar came back to the Black Tower on his own, and was accosted by Taim and his lackeys and turned. The reference to Logain leaving with Mezar, Donalo and Welyn is when they joined up with Rand in Tear.

 

On my re-read, I've reached ACoS25, where Moggy is put under the control of a cour'souvra. She is let out of her vacuole-prison and meets Moridin, who has her cour'souvra and another on a chain round his neck. She thinks of the danger she is in:

 

{Moridin} reached into the open neck of his shirt, and her own tongue clove to the roof of her mouth. Her eyes fixed on the small cage of gold wire and blood-red crystal that he drew out dangling on a cord. She thought vaguely that he tucked another just like it back in, but she had eyes only for her own. It definitely was hers. His thumb stroked, and she felt that caress across her mind, her soul. Breaking a mindtrap did not require much more pressure than he was using. She could be on the other side of the world or farther, and it would not matter a hair. The part of her that was her would be separated; she would still see with her eyes and hear with her ears, taste what crossed her tongue and feel what touched her, but helpless within an automaton that was utterly obedient to whoever held the cour’souvra. Whether or not there was any way to get free of it, a mindtrap was just what its name implied.

 

Compare this with the description of Mezar, in ToM56:

 

{Androl} saw what Norley had seen. Something was deeply wrong, something not-quite-alive inside those eyes. This didn't seem to be a man, but a parody of one. A shadow stuffed inside human skin.

 

(emphasis mine)

 

I wonder if Morry has added a few more cour'souvra to his collection..

 

They would need to be taken to SG for that, and mindtrapped by the DO personally. I'm thinking that cour'souvra are for VIPs only.

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