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Logain - Where the heck is he?


Logoth
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In those stunned moments, the Myrddraal forced her mouth open, scraped the blade along her tongue, then nicked her ear. And as it straightened with her blood and saliva, she knew, even before it produced what appeared to be a tiny, fragile cage of gold wire and crystal. Some things could only be done here, some only to those who could channel, and she had brought a number of men and women for this very purpose.

 

“No,” she breathed. Her eyes could not leave the cour’souvra. “No, not me! NOT ME!”

 

Ignoring her, Shaidar Haran scraped the fluids from the knife onto the cour’souvra. The crystal turned a milky pink, the first setting. With a flick of its wrist, it tossed the mindtrap out over the lake of molten stone for the second. The gold-and-crystal cage arched through the air and suddenly stopped, floating at the very spot where it seemed the Bore was, the place where the Pattern lay thinnest of all.

 

Perhaps only the mindtrap has to be there, for the 'second setting'.

 

As for it being for VIPs only, no information.

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I thought Mezar was actually Naeff who was sent by Rand. I remember Rand showing Naeff a weave that was inverted which I assume is a disguise. I believe it is Androl who notices that Mezar eyes look different. I thought this would suggest that it is a disguise and they can tell because the eyes don't match up. I can't remember reading anything about the 13 and 13. Could be wrong. Any insight from anyone would be greatly appreciated.

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Naeff isn't Mezar.

The timelines are wrong.

Androl sees Mezar early into the BT being cut off.

We know that from the fact that meets him the very day various Ashaman try making Gates and fail.

Rand sends Naeff many days later.

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Naeff isn't Mezar.

The timelines are wrong.

Androl sees Mezar early into the BT being cut off.

We know that from the fact that meets him the very day various Ashaman try making Gates and fail.

Rand sends Naeff many days later.

 

Oh, sorry. I get confused with all of the non-linear PoV chapters. I wonder who he is now. When did they mention the 13 and 13 in the books as far as the BT is concerned? I know it was discussed more about information dealing with the Age of Legends, but I didn't realize that something had happened in the current age.

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Naeff isn't Mezar.

The timelines are wrong.

Androl sees Mezar early into the BT being cut off.

We know that from the fact that meets him the very day various Ashaman try making Gates and fail.

Rand sends Naeff many days later.

 

Oh, sorry. I get confused with all of the non-linear PoV chapters. I wonder who he is now. When did they mention the 13 and 13 in the books as far as the BT is concerned? I know it was discussed more about information dealing with the Age of Legends, but I didn't realize that something had happened in the current age.

 

I don't think we've actually seen it happen in the books. We first came across it in TDR22, Egwene's Accepted test, when Sheriam explains something she heard inside the Test. (And we now know Sheriam was BA..) Later in the same book, Liandrin captures Nyn, Eg, and Elayne, and tells them she has 13 Myrddraal coming (TDR51) and they realise what she's going to do.

 

The only other ref I can find is TFoH9, but that's only in conversation.

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  • 3 months later...

I don't think that I've seen mention of this, but in Winter's Heart we see Logain asking his followers something curious. He's asking if any more men had been found to study Nynaeve's way of healing used on Logain, or what Logain had puzzled out from what Nynaeve did to him the sisters commented on. Could it be Logain is off collecting men and women who have been stilled, Gentled, or burned out for healing and bringing them into the BT?

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The BT timeline is still behind, as can be seen by Graendal's encounter with Moridin a the beginning of ToM. She sees the dreamspike (note the singular) and is amazed that Moridin has acquired 2 of them. When Grady announces to Perrin that travelling to the BT doesn't work, it is safe to assume that the DSPIKE has been in place for some time... but only after Androl works with leather. I think that when the physical fortifications were completed around the BT, the spike was activated. This puts the BT timeline about a month behind, as Perrin's showdown with Slayer and destruction of the other spike occurred within a week of FoM (derived from interactions between Eggy and Gawyn after the bonding).

 

Because of this, the resolution of the BT and Logaine's reappearance should be early in aMoL.

 

Maybe he's hiding out at Farmer Bunt's house, or frolicking with Else Grinwell in a haystack.

 

 

The "Working Leather" chapter is actually closer to 1 1/2 to 2 months behind and by chapter 56 "Something Wrong" the BT timeline is about 1 1/2 to 2 weeks behind.

 

The last we saw of Logain was when Rand sends back the sul'dam and damane after capturing Semirhage in tGS Prologue.

 

According to any timeline I have seen, that's late in the first week of April.

The meeting on the FoM is set for middle of the first week of July.

The BT timeline, when Androl meets with Pevara, is roughly around late 1rst week/early 2nd week of June or 1 1/2 to 2 weeks behind the main timeline. This is confirmed by BS.

(Remember, a week is 10 days and a month is 28)

 

So basically, we haven't seen Logain on screen 4-6 days short of 3 months and the BT hasn't seen him in a little more than 2 months.

 

As far as where he is, my guess is Illian with the Asha'man assigned there in KoD chptr 18.

Edited by Finnssss
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The BT timeline, when Androl meets with Pevara, is roughly around late 1rst week/early 2nd week of June or 1 1/2 to 2 weeks behind the main timeline. This is confirmed by BS.

(Remember, a week is 10 days and a month is 28)

 

Just to clarify, you mean Androl is 10 to 15 days behind FoM, right?

It's just that I thought that BS said he was about a week (ie 10 days) behind.

Probably remembering it wrong though, guess I'll just have to go and look it up...

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The BT timeline, when Androl meets with Pevara, is roughly around late 1rst week/early 2nd week of June or 1 1/2 to 2 weeks behind the main timeline. This is confirmed by BS.

(Remember, a week is 10 days and a month is 28)

 

Just to clarify, you mean Androl is 10 to 15 days behind FoM, right?

It's just that I thought that BS said he was about a week (ie 10 days) behind.

Probably remembering it wrong though, guess I'll just have to go and look it up...

 

 

I believe he said about a week or so, under 2 for sure.

10-15 days is a safe estimate.

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This topic makes me happy, one because I was asking the same question, but assumed my confusion was due to the timeline discrepencies; and two, its an honest to God mystery!

 

The only 2 plausible guesses (for me) were either he is with the Sea Folk, or "scouting" the Black Tower. Either way, we will get to see him in MoL.

 

Of course, there is always a third option...I am wrong about everything above. =)

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  • 2 weeks later...

a_lilly_in_winter posted the below as a new topic by mistake:

 

"Androl had been worrying for weeks now. Ever since Logain had left in the night. Where had he gone? Why had he taken Donalo, Mezar and Welyn---three of the most powerful Dedicated loyal to him---along?"

Androl's p.o.v. in ToM p. 682

 

Later, in "Something Wrong" (p. 818) in T.o.M., Mezar reappears in the BT but he has been turned to the shadow, presumably by the 13/13 trick.

------------------------

 

Some clarification here.. Logain left with Donalo, Mezar and Welyn but they all were with Rand when he met the fake Tuon. The Wheel of Time Wike explains it best:

 

"Mezar bonded Adrielle unwillingly, although they have now become fond of each other. He has Traveled to Tear to join up with Logain and Rand. He watches Rand's meeting with the Daughter of the Nine Moons from a distance and Travels in as back up when it is revealed that the Daughter of the Nine Moons is actually Semirhage.

 

In Towers of Midnight, he is sent back to the Black Tower, and then he becomes one of Mazrim Taim's favourites. His eyes also change, look different, and his smile is wrong. Most likely, he was turned to the Dark One by thirteen Myrddraal and thirteen Dreadlords."

 

So, my guess here is that Mezar came back to the Black Tower on his own, and was accosted by Taim and his lackeys and turned. The reference to Logain leaving with Mezar, Donalo and Welyn is when they joined up with Rand in Tear.

 

On my re-read, I've reached ACoS25, where Moggy is put under the control of a cour'souvra. She is let out of her vacuole-prison and meets Moridin, who has her cour'souvra and another on a chain round his neck. She thinks of the danger she is in:

 

{Moridin} reached into the open neck of his shirt, and her own tongue clove to the roof of her mouth. Her eyes fixed on the small cage of gold wire and blood-red crystal that he drew out dangling on a cord. She thought vaguely that he tucked another just like it back in, but she had eyes only for her own. It definitely was hers. His thumb stroked, and she felt that caress across her mind, her soul. Breaking a mindtrap did not require much more pressure than he was using. She could be on the other side of the world or farther, and it would not matter a hair. The part of her that was her would be separated; she would still see with her eyes and hear with her ears, taste what crossed her tongue and feel what touched her, but helpless within an automaton that was utterly obedient to whoever held the cour’souvra. Whether or not there was any way to get free of it, a mindtrap was just what its name implied.

 

Compare this with the description of Mezar, in ToM56:

 

{Androl} saw what Norley had seen. Something was deeply wrong, something not-quite-alive inside those eyes. This didn't seem to be a man, but a parody of one. A shadow stuffed inside human skin.

 

(emphasis mine)

 

I wonder if Morry has added a few more cour'souvra to his collection..

 

They would need to be taken to SG for that, and mindtrapped by the DO personally. I'm thinking that cour'souvra are for VIPs only.

 

Off the cuff and I don't have the books to hand too cross reference, but reading this just screamed at me that the "turned Mezar" = Moggy, and Taim = Moridin

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Try another tack of elimination to locate Logain.

We know more or less where he hasn't been,

Not in Tear, not in Maradon, not apparently in the BT (unless he's prisoner or in disguise).

Not with Perrin or in Caemlyn or Carhein (unless he's in deep cover).

Not in Arad Doman.

Not in the White Tower.

Is he with Lan in disguise- Lan's army is 100% Borderlander - would Logain be able to pass off as one?

Probably not.

So where does that leave?

Let's say he's not in Seanchan, not in Shara (because neither place apparently features much or at all in AMoL).

 

Is he Roedran?

Or is he with Roedran?

Is he in Rhuidean?

Is he elsewhere in the Borderlands (not Saldaea or in Lan's army)?

None of these places have an apparent reason to appeal to Logain.

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Another possibility to consider is Illian.

Verin warned Rand that the Seanchan were building forts outside Illian (WH 32). We know that Galgan was planning to push into Illian just before the Algarin manor attack (although he wasn't quite ready yet - KOD Pr), and there were lots of Seanchan settlers heading for Illian (COT 28), Wiramon's jaunt to Tear (KOD 21) conveniently pulled Sunamon & Co. out of Illian. It was beginning to look all set for the Seanchan.

 

Then all sorts of thing happened to delay their plans

- Ituralde diverted the raken

- Mat and his “little mess” of a campaign distracted Chisen on the Murandy border

- there was that small matter of a missing Daughter of the Nine Moons, 7k troops going missing (the Whitecloaks), enemy armies mysteriously disappearing (SAS), etc.

- And then, Logain turned up with AM and AS. We don't know how many, but we do know he took about half the BT (including all the bonded AS) and split them between Arad Doman and Illian.

 

The only thing we've had since, is a letter from Gregorin den Lushenos to Egwene, saying how he doesn't want to take all his troops to FoM in case the Seanchan attack.

Foreshadowing anyone?

Logain might be there already.

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Or maby he's building his own tower.. I mean it would b a twist something like this... Rand go's 2 the BT 2 sort out Taim and his rebels. Big Battle Rands trapped almost dead.. Bam in rides Logain with his tower. Smacks 7 bells outta the BT channlers and bam.. Wot better way 2 win the faver of Rand???

Edited by Mah'allenir
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Good discussion and it helped me a lot.

 

However, I'm wary of putting too much trust in timelines, as there have been errors before (Mat & Verin's letter, for instance).

 

Let's look at what we know. The last real mission we know of was that Logain was sent to try to get Harine back, referenced when Rand see's Harine in TGS Chapter 5. The last time we actually see him is in TGS prologue when Rand returns the damane to Ebou Dar. We know he isn't at the BT (at least openly) and that he was very concerned about events at the BT. And that he split half his loyal people between Illian and Arad Doman.

 

So, if he's free and not captured, I'd have to say he's realized he can't get to the BT and:

 

1) Gone to gather what loyal people he could in Arad Doman, Illian, or both, and then probably gotten as close to the BT has he could.

2) Gotten diverted on some mission related to the Sea Folk. I really like the Amayar idea being connected to Logain's greatness, and perhaps even the song and the Aiel as well.

3) Doing something else we don't know about, and Rand doesn't either.

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However, I'm wary of putting too much trust in timelines, as there have been errors before (Mat & Verin's letter, for instance).

 

I put a timeline together a while back to help me understand what goes on in TOM, and tracing Logain's whereabouts was one of the first things I attempted to do with it. Needless to say, I didn't get very far.

It's considerably more detailed than other timelines as I've split it by PoV and used a very different format. But it does show up some interesting things that you might not notice otherwise (like showing up that situation in Illian for example).

I'm not going to claim this is better than other people's attempts, and it is still a working version, but I have managed to get rid of some major kinks.

Here

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That'd b pretty funky Druid. Wot if he's been nabbed by da shadow.. If i rember Gandrieal was being punnished but wasent killed and she's v.skilled at compulsion. So they nabbed logain Gandrieal did her compulsion trick and is hiding in the shadows with a few other channelers.. meanwhile logain has no idea he was captured and turned by the shadow due to compulsion and is being sent 2 get close 2 rand to kill him!!

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Portal stone time travel accident? Some character is in time twice, hidden so as not to tear the fabric of time apart, yet they can do what their past self (ahead in linear time) knows has jappened. Dissapearances all organized by one for a time yet to come.

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