What's the plan?!?

[Xcorpyo001]

K, maybe it was discussed before, but I couldn't find anything recent(besides the one about using TP), so I'll ask it here.

What will be the best plan to seal the Bore?

What factions will be needed? What risks involved?

 

 

The control statues for the Choedan Kal(bad LTT) are both gone, so there won't be a risk of another Latra Posae Decume(DF or not) 'wait and see' approach.

 

Personally, I'm thinking about two major plans, and one with a wild card, all centered on DR or the Asha'man.

Plan 1(works if Rand can use the TP).

-create new seals

-lead huge raiding force to SG

-break seals

-use TP siphoned through Moridin to activate the seals(no taint, or at least just on Moridin, Rand and DO)

-Game over

 

Plan 2.(Rand can pull it with only OP, but it will make his cleansing worthless, if it turns out bad)

-create new seals

-move all Asha'man inside Steddings, under Ogier guard. Take only the strongest 20-30 with him

-lead huge raiding party to SG. They can use women that can channel, but not in the sealing process.

-break seals

-since LTT knows the area and what to do, especially where to place the seals, he can try to seal it with only AM before the saidin can be tainted again, or maybe even trying to protect against it, if possible.

 

Now, bad case scenario, saidin is tainted again, all AM in the Steddings are kept there until they can figure out how to cleanse the saidin again.

 

Worse case scenario: Rand does this without putting the Ashaman inside Steddings(for more secrecy and element of surprise). The all lot of them goes insane, but the women have many many many times more channellers than the men, so they'll be defeated without much damage to the land, so no Breaking. And they can go on with the gentling/killing as before, so no huge cultural change.

 

Ray of hope. A crazy Rand will kill Elayne, then Travel to the WT and create the Randmount, thus making the world a better place, and making up for all the damage the AM can wreak on the world before they can be hunted down and killed.

 

 

3. Fain and his dagger can actually help them in the long run.

So if he just wounds Rand, Moridin or part of the DO with his dagger, that will weaken the DO long enough so they can seal him completely.

Can the DO actually die? The Creator seemed to think that was not possible, or he was to 'good' to bloody his hands, but since Fain is 'outside' the Wheel's influence, maybe he does not have to follow the same rules the Creator and the DO have.

 

 

Any other more realistic plans?

[Majsju]

There will be no seal, Rand has to find a way to 'heal' (for the lack of a better word) the Bore, so that some poor researcher can create a new bore next time the AOL comes around.

 

How it will happen remains to be seen, but I for one strongly doubt channeling will be a crucial, if any part of it.

[Xcorpyo001]

There will be no seal, Rand has to find a way to 'heal' (for the lack of a better word) the Bore, so that some poor researcher can create a new bore next time the AOL comes around.

 

How it will happen remains to be seen, but I for one strongly doubt channeling will be a crucial, if any part of it.

 

 

But wasn't another poor researcher that said that only the Creator could do that, and no one can do it again?

And any idea about closing it without using OP? I don't think it's something as simple as going there and use a shovel to throw dirt on it until it's closed. Not that the Bore is just a hole in the ground.

[JKN-SW]

I really don't have any clue how it will be done, but I don't think it will be either of the ways you suggest. Those plans are too close to what LTT did last time around, and that only turned out to be a temporary solution. I think it will be way more complex and unexpected than just going there and recreate what was done 3000 years ago, with out without the women.

 

After all, he got some answers from the Finns, so there has to be something more than what he already knows. Even after VoG, with all of LTTs memories, he admits he still doesn't know how to do it, but he will figure it out.

[randsc]

What, you want to ruin Min's big reveal?

[Xcorpyo001]

What, you want to ruin Min's big reveal?

 

 

I have no idea what Min's big reveal is, so I want you to ruin her big reveal for me

 

But I don't think she's the only one who has to bring something to the table.

The AS some new ter'angreal, maybe a new wave or something.

LTT should really explain to these people what the Bore is and how exactly he managed to seal it last time, and start from there.

Maybe the women faction can come up with a better plan than 'we'll make a big shield around it and hope the DO will die of old age or boredom before he escapes '

[Crimson_Ayla]

Maybe the bore is alive and Nyneave will have to heal it (with the help of a ter'angreal made by Elayne) using saidar and saidin

[TheAngryDruid]

I think Meirin may have some insight.

[spoke]

There is a third theory out there that since something has to touch the Dark one, otherwise the One Power will be tainted, that Rand will actually use Fain as the buffer between the two.

 

But at the end of TOM, Rand has basically stated that he does not know what to do, only that if he lets it drag out they won't be able to survive long enough to figure it out. It is a sort of like saying, I don't know what to do, so I will rely on my Ta'veren-ness to figure it out for me.

[Suttree]

We know Fel said..

 

"Belief and order give strength. Have to clear rubble before you can build."

 

This is what Min is researching and since Rand has admitted he is "missing something" and needs her to find it for him she most likely holds the key.

[mandersen]

 

 

 

But wasn't another poor researcher that said that only the Creator could do that, and no one can do it again?

 

 

Well the DO has to be sealed (as in outside the pattern, as everyone assumes the creator did in the first place) at some point before the AoL comes around again. And I don't think the creator is going to do it. His m.o. seems more to sit back and watch. But whether or not they'll be able to completely remake the DO's prison as it was at the beginning of creation (at least that's what people believe) is anyone's guess.

[tzdrazil]

There is a third theory out there that since something has to touch the Dark one, otherwise the One Power will be tainted, that Rand will actually use Fain as the buffer between the two.

 

But at the end of TOM, Rand has basically stated that he does not know what to do, only that if he lets it drag out they won't be able to survive long enough to figure it out. It is a sort of like saying, I don't know what to do, so I will rely on my Ta'veren-ness to figure it out for me.

 

I side along with this theory...Fain can be the buffer to 'push' the DO out of the pattern and it can be healed/sealed shut. Could Fain be another person on the short list (after Lanfear & Moridin) potentially to show redemption in the series through his sacrifice in doing this? I'd assume he'd have to die to accomplish this, but I like this better than screaming 'my precious' and falling in the Bore.

[Skeeve the Great]

We know Fel said..

 

"Belief and order give strength. Have to clear rubble before you can build."

 

This is what Min is researching and since Rand has admitted he is "missing something" and needs her to find it for him she most likely holds the key.

 

I find the bolded portion very interesting. It perfectly summarizes the correct approach to TAR, and we see it in Perrin's training with wolves. I almost believe that's going to help Rand defeat DO in TAR (and thus in all worlds).

[Skeeve the Great]

Additional observation.

 

As been demonstrated by the awesomeness of Perrin, the strength in One Power or True Power does not matter in TAR. "Belief and order" beats balefire every time. :)

 

I vision the confrontation between Rand and DO to happen in TAR as a battle of wills. Perrin's training with wolves kinda points to that way, plus this "belief and order" stuff. And if you remember apples blooming in ToM, you can see were I'm going....

[LazyMonk]

I side along with this theory...Fain can be the buffer to 'push' the DO out of the pattern and it can be healed/sealed shut. Could Fain be another person on the short list (after Lanfear & Moridin) potentially to show redemption in the series through his sacrifice in doing this? I'd assume he'd have to die to accomplish this, but I like this better than screaming 'my precious' and falling in the Bore.

There's no way for Fain to repent because there's nothing left of him. There's just Mordeth now - or a complete fusion of Mordeth and Fain. And Fain wasn't a very nice guy to begin with, there's never a thought of repentance in nay of his POVs.

Fain's on his way to SG. Clearly, he has a major role in coming events. It was demonstrated in Shadar-Logoth that Mashadar's taint can be used to contain/counter the DO's taint. Mordeth/Fain has to have a final ending (it'll be a very poor ending to the book if he lives). I think we can except to see the same used again to greater effect.

 

I don't think there will be a anything similar to a re-sealing like LTT's attempt. The Dragon has to confront the DO directly, and since the DO has no corporeal body to fight, it would a sort of confrontation taking place on a different level of reality. perhaps something similar like the battle over Falme where Rand's and Ishy's duel was somehow tied to the battle in the city.

The DO has to be weakened somehow to allow a Healing of the Bore, not just re-patching it. The Bore must be as it never was to complete the turning of the wheel.

[Ferdawoon]

There is the theory that the three Ta'veren will beome such a powerful entity when combined that they will be able to allow Rand (or Nynaeve, "the Mistress of Healing") to use the Lifethreads of the armies at Shayoul Ghul to smooth out the Pattern and remove the "thinning" of it there.