Rand at Maradon

[Entreri]

Unlikely that Ishamael/Moridin could have pulled off such a feat, given that LTT humbled him several times in AoL. LTT > Ishamael. The Creator's Chosen is always the strongest.

 

Certainly the Light in his mind is new and there is no indication that he can drive DF's mad in AoL, LTT 2.0 has gained new powers/abilities. If Egwene is correct and he could have broken through the shield held by 13 AS, even more evidence. We will see in AMOL.

 

And yet Aginor claimed he could match LTT stroke for stroke right? So there's conflicting evidence vs your "humbled him several times".

 

 

Why would the result of a battle between LTT and Aginor be conflicting evidence of results of battles between LTT and Ishamael. Aginor claims he matched LTT in one battle. Good for him. Ishamael says that LTT beat him at the gates of PD, and humbled him in the Hall of Servants (which I've always taken to be more of a verbal humiliation, rather than a physical beatdown, but that's just me). One does not negate the other.

 

He suggested that because of those "instances" LTT must have been VASTLY stronger than Ishy. I suggested there is another instance where Aginor claims he's at least equal to LTT. So then Aginor must be VASTLY stronger than Ishy? It's not MY "logic"... don't look at me, I was just following along.

 

Edit: put logic in quotes

 

I never said LTT was vastly stronger than Ishy, in terms of OP strength. It is mentioned several times they are equal in OP strength, however what they can do with the Power are of a different level/scale.

 

Thus, it is unlikely that Ishy could have accomplished a similar feat at Maradon.

 

Of course, Rand has moved beyond what he was capable of in AoL, we know of at least one extra ability (Light in his mind protecting him from the taint, he may have gained a more potent 'Power' and may have become stronger than he was as LTT (breaking circle of 13 shield).

 

LTT is greater than any other channeler, very easily #1, large drop then #2/Ishy, #3 is probably Demandred.

 

 

 

Aginor: "I, who threw my might against the Lord of the Morning and met him stroke for stroke". Curious to know if this was a boast. Aginor's lack of prowess in the battlefield is evidenced (Cleansing), his fear of Ishamael and Rand (Cleansing) and he knows who not to challenge (e.g. Demandred).

[Mr Ares]

The taint is not "expected" to cause insanity in any particular way, it is only expected to cause insanity. Hence why every case we have seen is different. Rand has another man's memories, and we are told, quite clearly, that this is a rare from of madness. Having a part of his own mind that he identifies as another person is, as I already stated, something which could quite reasonably be called insane. By admitting that LTT was just a voice in Rand's head, you do your argument no favours, as that is tantamount to an admission of Rand's insanity. Saying that Rand is wrong, and that LTT was wrong is actually an argument that would strengthen your case. As it is, Rand is crazy, the only difference is an unusual symptom of having another man's memories as well as his other problems.

 

Ok, so when he got his "taint protection" why didn't the memories go away? Since apparently they are purely a symptom of the "insanity". Booyeah!

 

I don't doubt that many insane channelers likely hear voices. That's not exactly the same as getting real information they couldn't have otherwise known from those voices. Also, Rand handles his "insanity" quite "sanely". Though I'm not psychiatrist, but it sure doesn't come across like TV schizophrenia.

When Rand got his "taint protection", it integrated the memories he had. This is, so we were already told (see Suttree's quote from KoD - "Even Graendal usually failed to achieve reintegration with someone who heard a real voice.") the usual cure for this form of madness. Booyeah indeed. Rand hears a real voice while others don't, but this is because he has a different form of madness to those people. Also, I would advise against learning about mental health issues purely from TV shows.

 

 

I don't doubt that many insane channelers likely hear voices. That's not exactly the same as getting real information they couldn't have otherwise known from those voices. Also, Rand handles his "insanity" quite "sanely". Though I'm not psychiatrist, but it sure doesn't come across like TV schizophrenia.

 

But didn't Semy saying the fact that the voice is real makes the insanity worse?

 

Possibly, don't have that book with me. But I don't doubt the memories came from the taint. I just don't see how that makes him insane.

Well, what does the taint do?

Insanity tends to be an irrational thing. He has a perfectly rational reason to be hearing a voice.

And yet Mat didn't hear any voices, despite having a similarly rational reason to do so. I would suggest that Rand walling himself off from his emotions was perhaps not the healthiest state of mind to cultivate, and his mood swings were not entirely rational. Nor was his apparent desire to die at TG.

[Suttree]

The taint is not "expected" to cause insanity in any particular way, it is only expected to cause insanity. Hence why every case we have seen is different. Rand has another man's memories, and we are told, quite clearly, that this is a rare from of madness. Having a part of his own mind that he identifies as another person is, as I already stated, something which could quite reasonably be called insane. By admitting that LTT was just a voice in Rand's head, you do your argument no favours, as that is tantamount to an admission of Rand's insanity. Saying that Rand is wrong, and that LTT was wrong is actually an argument that would strengthen your case. As it is, Rand is crazy, the only difference is an unusual symptom of having another man's memories as well as his other problems.

 

Ok, so when he got his "taint protection" why didn't the memories go away? Since apparently they are purely a symptom of the "insanity". Booyeah!

 

I don't doubt that many insane channelers likely hear voices. That's not exactly the same as getting real information they couldn't have otherwise known from those voices. Also, Rand handles his "insanity" quite "sanely". Though I'm not psychiatrist, but it sure doesn't come across like TV schizophrenia.

When Rand got his "taint protection", it integrated the memories he had. This is, so we were already told (see Suttree's quote from KoD - "Even Graendal usually failed to achieve reintegration with someone who heard a real voice.") the usual cure for this form of madness. Booyeah indeed. Rand hears a real voice while others don't, but this is because he has a different form of madness to those people. Also, I would advise against learning about mental health issues purely from TV shows.

 

Not to mention we have this...

 

BS: Robert Jordan dropped a bomb at the end of Knife of Dreams, with what Semirhage was saying about or to Rand, talking about his level of stability. I remember as a reader, going through as a kid—I think Robert Jordan blindsided me with Lews Therin, because I’d been told that “Rand will go mad, Rand will go mad,” but I didn’t accept that voice as Rand going mad. I accepted that as another person, inside of Rand’s head, and not a delusion or anything like that. Across the course of the books, Robert Jordan brought together this thing that he’d promised: “No, look, this guy is just going crazy. Yes, he’s seeing part of his past life, but he’s going insane. It’s the immense pressure that’s doing this.” In looking through the notes, and seeing what Rand has to go through, it’s hard not to sympathize with the poor guy.

[Pandemonium]

Rand clearly has access to a new type of power.

 

1. His mind is protected from the taint with a type of golden protection

 

2. Darkfriends cannot look at his eyes

 

3. He turned spoiled apples into the best apples ever.

 

4. He apparently restored the entire supply of spoiled food in Arad Doman.

 

5. His channeling at Maradon was not normal channeling. If it was, it wouldn't have caused the darkfriends to gauge their eyes out. From Maradon, I have always inferred that Rand's channeling possessed a similar power that Rand used when he looked into Weiramon's eyes. In Shadar Logoth Rand was able to set weaves that could attack either shadowspawn or humans but not both. Rand also used Callandor to wipe out all of the Shadowspawn in the Stone. However, his Callandor weaves did not affect the darkfriends such as Weiramon. From this, we can establish that Rand's channeling in Maradon was different than any weave he has ever used before. I would offer that the only type of weave that could simultaneously and selectively target Shadowspawn and darkfriends is a weave directly from the Creator. Rand is the Creator's champion, and I think it only stands to reason that Rand may have access to a special type of power. Moridin is the Dark One's champion and has access to the True Power. Many suspect that the True power is an extension of the Dark One. The Wheel of Time is all about balance, and I highly suspect that Rand has gained direct access to a certain dimension of the Creator. This special power should give Rand the strength to counter Moridin and the Dark One. I think the hints are strongly implied. Rand has had two opposing evils in his torso fighting each other. Now Rand has the power of the Creator and the Dark One holding each other off in his brain. Just as the 2 opposing taints theme proved crucial for the cleansing of the taint, I believe the 2 opposing powers in his brain will prove crucial to the healing of the bore. The symmetry has been displayed for us, but I am surprised so many people are trying to explain away Rand's special powers.

[Gabriel Kross]

Rand clearly has access to a new type of power.

 

1. His mind is protected from the taint with a type of golden protection

 

2. Darkfriends cannot look at his eyes

 

3. He turned spoiled apples into the best apples ever.

 

4. He apparently restored the entire supply of spoiled food in Arad Doman.

 

5. His channeling at Maradon was not normal channeling. If it was, it wouldn't have caused the darkfriends to gauge their eyes out. From Maradon, I have always inferred that Rand's channeling possessed a similar power that Rand used when he looked into Weiramon's eyes. In Shadar Logoth Rand was able to set weaves that could attack either shadowspawn or humans but not both. Rand also used Callandor to wipe out all of the Shadowspawn in the Stone. However, his Callandor weaves did not affect the darkfriends such as Weiramon. From this, we can establish that Rand's channeling in Maradon was different than any weave he has ever used before. I would offer that the only type of weave that could simultaneously and selectively target Shadowspawn and darkfriends is a weave directly from the Creator. Rand is the Creator's champion, and I think it only stands to reason that Rand may have access to a special type of power. Moridin is the Dark One's champion and has access to the True Power. Many suspect that the True power is an extension of the Dark One. The Wheel of Time is all about balance, and I highly suspect that Rand has gained direct access to a certain dimension of the Creator. This special power should give Rand the strength to counter Moridin and the Dark One. I think the hints are strongly implied. Rand has had two opposing evils in his torso fighting each other. Now Rand has the power of the Creator and the Dark One holding each other off in his brain. Just as the 2 opposing taints theme proved crucial for the cleansing of the taint, I believe the 2 opposing powers in his brain will prove crucial to the healing of the bore. The symmetry has been displayed for us, but I am surprised so many people are trying to explain away Rand's special powers.

 

It's just a part of who he is, he would have been able to do these things so much sooner had he accepted LTT and emotions but then that would have made a much shoter series. It's just the oposite of the dark aura he projects throughout most of the later books, it's no special channeling, it's just there.

[Pandemonium]

Rand clearly has access to a new type of power.

 

1. His mind is protected from the taint with a type of golden protection

 

2. Darkfriends cannot look at his eyes

 

3. He turned spoiled apples into the best apples ever.

 

4. He apparently restored the entire supply of spoiled food in Arad Doman.

 

5. His channeling at Maradon was not normal channeling. If it was, it wouldn't have caused the darkfriends to gauge their eyes out. From Maradon, I have always inferred that Rand's channeling possessed a similar power that Rand used when he looked into Weiramon's eyes. In Shadar Logoth Rand was able to set weaves that could attack either shadowspawn or humans but not both. Rand also used Callandor to wipe out all of the Shadowspawn in the Stone. However, his Callandor weaves did not affect the darkfriends such as Weiramon. From this, we can establish that Rand's channeling in Maradon was different than any weave he has ever used before. I would offer that the only type of weave that could simultaneously and selectively target Shadowspawn and darkfriends is a weave directly from the Creator. Rand is the Creator's champion, and I think it only stands to reason that Rand may have access to a special type of power. Moridin is the Dark One's champion and has access to the True Power. Many suspect that the True power is an extension of the Dark One. The Wheel of Time is all about balance, and I highly suspect that Rand has gained direct access to a certain dimension of the Creator. This special power should give Rand the strength to counter Moridin and the Dark One. I think the hints are strongly implied. Rand has had two opposing evils in his torso fighting each other. Now Rand has the power of the Creator and the Dark One holding each other off in his brain. Just as the 2 opposing taints theme proved crucial for the cleansing of the taint, I believe the 2 opposing powers in his brain will prove crucial to the healing of the bore. The symmetry has been displayed for us, but I am surprised so many people are trying to explain away Rand's special powers.

 

It's just a part of who he is, he would have been able to do these things so much sooner had he accepted LTT and emotions but then that would have made a much shoter series. It's just the oposite of the dark aura he projects throughout most of the later books, it's no special channeling, it's just there.

 

Then you just admitted he has a special power that no one else has. Some people might call that a godlike ability. That is what I am trying to say too. Rand is the Creator's champion and he is one with the land. Also, I do not think we have any evidence at this point to say that Rand is only as strong as LTT was. Rand appears to have powers beyond what LTT possessed, but this cannot be verified until AMoL is published.

[Gabriel Kross]

Rand clearly has access to a new type of power.

 

1. His mind is protected from the taint with a type of golden protection

 

2. Darkfriends cannot look at his eyes

 

3. He turned spoiled apples into the best apples ever.

 

4. He apparently restored the entire supply of spoiled food in Arad Doman.

 

5. His channeling at Maradon was not normal channeling. If it was, it wouldn't have caused the darkfriends to gauge their eyes out. From Maradon, I have always inferred that Rand's channeling possessed a similar power that Rand used when he looked into Weiramon's eyes. In Shadar Logoth Rand was able to set weaves that could attack either shadowspawn or humans but not both. Rand also used Callandor to wipe out all of the Shadowspawn in the Stone. However, his Callandor weaves did not affect the darkfriends such as Weiramon. From this, we can establish that Rand's channeling in Maradon was different than any weave he has ever used before. I would offer that the only type of weave that could simultaneously and selectively target Shadowspawn and darkfriends is a weave directly from the Creator. Rand is the Creator's champion, and I think it only stands to reason that Rand may have access to a special type of power. Moridin is the Dark One's champion and has access to the True Power. Many suspect that the True power is an extension of the Dark One. The Wheel of Time is all about balance, and I highly suspect that Rand has gained direct access to a certain dimension of the Creator. This special power should give Rand the strength to counter Moridin and the Dark One. I think the hints are strongly implied. Rand has had two opposing evils in his torso fighting each other. Now Rand has the power of the Creator and the Dark One holding each other off in his brain. Just as the 2 opposing taints theme proved crucial for the cleansing of the taint, I believe the 2 opposing powers in his brain will prove crucial to the healing of the bore. The symmetry has been displayed for us, but I am surprised so many people are trying to explain away Rand's special powers.

 

It's just a part of who he is, he would have been able to do these things so much sooner had he accepted LTT and emotions but then that would have made a much shoter series. It's just the oposite of the dark aura he projects throughout most of the later books, it's no special channeling, it's just there.

 

Then you just admitted he has a special power that no one else has. Some people might call that a godlike ability. That is what I am trying to say too. Rand is the Creator's champion and he is one with the land. Also, I do not think we have any evidence at this point to say that Rand is only as strong as LTT was. Rand appears to have powers beyond what LTT possessed, but this cannot be verified until AMoL is published.

 

 

The point I was trying to make was I do not think it is a power persay, because that would imply he could control it. I don't think he himself controls this or can turn it off at all, I'd put it more like a personality quirk than a power that is affected by the emotional level he is at at any given time. Remember he was extremely pissed at Maradon hence the massive amount of light he emitted however he was just disappointed in Tear so he emitted much less light. The one with the land part of it explains the restoring of the rotten food, food rotted a lot faster around him when he emitted the dark aura, so again it's not something he controls however he uses it. So you could say it's a "power" but considering the context of how this is used it'd be more of just a personality like thing so still yes it's something only he can do but imo not a power.

 

Also the LTT thing and him being stronger, That would make him alot stronger than Moridin iirc LTT was stronger than Moridin (not by much I think) but I do not think Rand will be much stronger than Moridin (if at all) so I think Rand is not stronger than LTT just more efficient now because of his own knowledge coupled with LTT's

[UncleButcher1980]

Lews Therin was one with the land as well, so that is not a new power. Also, about Maradon, and I think this has been suggested before, Rand had only recently drawn heavily on the Choedan Kal, so that may explain his apparent increase in Power.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Sorry, just couldn't force myself to read it all, by the time I'd finished one page another had been posted and I was always two pages behind.

 

Could Rand overcome two circles of thirteen? Probably. There is, after all more than one way to overcome an obstacle. It isn't only that such a thing could only happen through the application of some godlike brute force. Post VoG Rand has a completely different relationship with himself, with the Wheel, with people, and with the world. His whole aura is different. He now has CHARISMA! All it would take is one member of each of those Circles of thirteen deciding that Shielding Rand wasn't such a hot idea and suddenly there is no longer two Circles of thirteen. I'd be willing to bet that the Wheel would tilt the odds in Rands favor so that such a thing would happen.

 

Post Veins of Gold Rand radiates GOODNESS or Light in its metaphysical form. Very useful. Those who are basically good want to find and follow him. Those who are basically bad want to run and hide. The Light folks can't take their eyes off him. Those who are Dark can't stand to look in his direction.

 

Could any other Channeler have done what Rand did at Maradon? Unlikely. LTT was the tip of the pyramid in the AOL. The single capstone. Rand is even moreso the capstone of the Third Age because up there on Dragonmount he came to understand the metaphysics of the Wheel more than LTT ever had.

 

Even so, I'd say not to look for more of such heroics in A Memory of Light. I figure Rand will be fighting far more on the metaphysical plane than the physical one. Killing Trollcs and other Shadowspawn will be up to all of the others.

 

Godlike power? No. But The Dragon Reborn is still more and more fearsome, powerful, and adept than The Dragon ever was.

[Gabriel Kross]

Sorry, just couldn't force myself to read it all, by the time I'd finished one page another had been posted and I was always two pages behind.

 

Could Rand overcome two circles of thirteen? Probably. There is, after all more than one way to overcome an obstacle. It isn't only that such a thing could only happen through the application of some godlike brute force. Post VoG Rand has a completely different relationship with himself, with the Wheel, with people, and with the world. His whole aura is different. He now has CHARISMA! All it would take is one member of each of those Circles of thirteen deciding that Shielding Rand wasn't such a hot idea and suddenly there is no longer two Circles of thirteen. I'd be willing to bet that the Wheel would tilt the odds in Rands favor so that such a thing would happen.

 

Post Veins of Gold Rand radiates GOODNESS or Light in its metaphysical form. Very useful. Those who are basically good want to find and follow him. Those who are basically bad want to run and hide. The Light folks can't take their eyes off him. Those who are Dark can't stand to look in his direction.

 

Could any other Channeler have done what Rand did at Maradon? Unlikely. LTT was the tip of the pyramid in the AOL. The single capstone. Rand is even moreso the capstone of the Third Age because up there on Dragonmount he came to understand the metaphysics of the Wheel more than LTT ever had.

 

Even so, I'd say not to look for more of such heroics in A Memory of Light. I figure Rand will be fighting far more on the metaphysical plane than the physical one. Killing Trollcs and other Shadowspawn will be up to all of the others.

 

Godlike power? No. But The Dragon Reborn is still more and more fearsome, powerful, and adept than The Dragon ever was.

 

 

^this

[Hemis AlRhoid]

I think Rand has powers above and beyond a normal channeler. First, the two halves of the One Power (saidin/saidar) have nothing inherent with them that favors good or evil. We see them both used as tools for both sides. So considering this, being at the pinnacle of skill in using the one power shouldn't have any effect based on whether you are pledged to the Light or serve the Dark One. If the One Power isn't neutral then would see an effect on those who use it for the Shadow's purposes. So considering that, Rand's extra abilities (Dark Friends gouging their eyes out, etc) come above and beyond his ability to use the One Power. The Wheel of Time generally has a balance between all things. I would say Rand's abilities are the balance to the True Power and the Dark One's touch. It's probably the same power (or an extension of it) we see the original Aiel and Nymn using to help things grow.

[Suttree]

So considering that, Rand's extra abilities (Dark Friends gouging their eyes out, etc) come above and beyond his ability to use the One Power. The Wheel of Time generally has a balance between all things. I would say Rand's abilities are the balance to the True Power and the Dark One's touch. It's probably the same power (or an extension of it) we see the original Aiel and Nymn using to help things grow.

 

I dunno, before he radiated a "dark aura", now it has switched to light based on his DM epiphany. Can that be considered a "new power"?

[Eht Slat Meit]

Probably not new if both were in him all along, but this sounds a great deal like the Sha'rah game... switching from a dark square, under the control of one opponent, to the light square of the other. Perhaps it's simply reflective of which side is controlling the Fisher King? It could be well argued that the whole Darth Rand thing he had going on was representative of the Shadow's control over him.

[Hemis AlRhoid]

So considering that, Rand's extra abilities (Dark Friends gouging their eyes out, etc) come above and beyond his ability to use the One Power. The Wheel of Time generally has a balance between all things. I would say Rand's abilities are the balance to the True Power and the Dark One's touch. It's probably the same power (or an extension of it) we see the original Aiel and Nymn using to help things grow.

 

I dunno, before he radiated a "dark aura", now it has switched to light based on his DM epiphany. Can that be considered a "new power"?

 

If you think the dark aura comes from True Power usage, then the light aura could indeed be the result in touching this other power.

[Hemis AlRhoid]

Probably not new if both were in him all along, but this sounds a great deal like the Sha'rah game... switching from a dark square, under the control of one opponent, to the light square of the other. Perhaps it's simply reflective of which side is controlling the Fisher King? It could be well argued that the whole Darth Rand thing he had going on was representative of the Shadow's control over him.

 

An interesting thought. Though I should point out that we do see other characters mentioned to have a dark aura around them. Though none is mentioned as much or had it be as noticeable as Rand.

[Suttree]

So considering that, Rand's extra abilities (Dark Friends gouging their eyes out, etc) come above and beyond his ability to use the One Power. The Wheel of Time generally has a balance between all things. I would say Rand's abilities are the balance to the True Power and the Dark One's touch. It's probably the same power (or an extension of it) we see the original Aiel and Nymn using to help things grow.

 

I dunno, before he radiated a "dark aura", now it has switched to light based on his DM epiphany. Can that be considered a "new power"?

 

If you think the dark aura comes from True Power usage, then the light aura could indeed be the result in touching this other power.

 

Was reminded of this in a diff thread.

 

BS

The black/dark aura around Rand is partially, but not entirely, an effect of True Power usage.16 There will be consequences from Rand's True Power use.

[Kahsm]

Just a reminder to some of the new posters, this thread is specifically about his channeling abilities. So since we know that Ishy was almost if not quite LTT's equal, the question pretty much boils down to whether or not you think Ishy (using the OP not TP) could have done similar at Maradon if the roles were reversed.

 

His taint protection, the food spoilage, the DF radar, all that stuff has been mentioned and there are explanations and such through the thread, but even if they were Rand-Only super powers, they don't necessarily have anything to do with his channeling combat prowess anyway.

[Lord_of_the_Morning]

I chose A based on the following:

- Caràcarn

- Coramoor

- Being the strongest ta'veren since Artur Hawkwing

- can channel his way out of an a`dam (thank you Great Lord).

- Having access to weaves that have been lost since the Breaking.

- Having the ability to break a shield placed on him by a circle of Aes Sedai.

- Having the ability to conjure images of BFF #1.) Prince of Ravens, Mat Cauthon BFF #2 Wolf King Lord Goldeneyes in some sort of no-tech Skype conference call.

- The Land is One with the Dragon. Remember the apple orchard.

- Remember Maradon.

- Remember the Stone of Tear (Shadowspan Lightning)

- Took the Stone of Tear with 300 Aiel, one half drunk womanizer and his sack of fireworks. (spoilers!)

- Conversates with Trollocs (Narg want`s tea if it please M`lord Dragon).

- Cleansed the Taint.

- Won the Borderlanders.

- Has more than one epic nemesis

- Born on Dragonmount in the snow to a dying Aiel Maiden. *spoilers again beg ye pardon*

 

 

Seriously, this guy is the Pattern's last and best hope. He`s basically the Aiel Jesus.

 

Option A says distinctly ``godlike`` and i could sit here all day and list of three amazing things he`s done each book but I dont have to. You know it.

 

He`s no Creator but I`ll be damned if he ain`t godlike. Haters gotta take away his thunder, voting for less than A.

 

 

 

***EDIT***

Then I read that this is about POST MARADON.

I still chose A.

 

He`s the best. So there.

[kght22]

vote narg, narg smart!

[Elan Tedronai]

When rand breaks through a circle of thirteen something the mighty LTT thought was impossible to do then only then i would consider something is up.

Until then LTT=Rand=LTT. No more no less

[Entreri]

I chose A based on the following:

- Caràcarn

- Coramoor

- Being the strongest ta'veren since Artur Hawkwing

- can channel his way out of an a`dam (thank you Great Lord).

- Having access to weaves that have been lost since the Breaking.

- Having the ability to break a shield placed on him by a circle of Aes Sedai.

- Having the ability to conjure images of BFF #1.) Prince of Ravens, Mat Cauthon BFF #2 Wolf King Lord Goldeneyes in some sort of no-tech Skype conference call.

- The Land is One with the Dragon. Remember the apple orchard.

- Remember Maradon.

- Remember the Stone of Tear (Shadowspan Lightning)

- Took the Stone of Tear with 300 Aiel, one half drunk womanizer and his sack of fireworks. (spoilers!)

- Conversates with Trollocs (Narg want`s tea if it please M`lord Dragon).

- Cleansed the Taint.

- Won the Borderlanders.

- Has more than one epic nemesis

- Born on Dragonmount in the snow to a dying Aiel Maiden. *spoilers again beg ye pardon*

 

 

Seriously, this guy is the Pattern's last and best hope. He`s basically the Aiel Jesus.

 

Option A says distinctly ``godlike`` and i could sit here all day and list of three amazing things he`s done each book but I dont have to. You know it.

 

He`s no Creator but I`ll be damned if he ain`t godlike. Haters gotta take away his thunder, voting for less than A.

 

 

 

***EDIT***

Then I read that this is about POST MARADON.

I still chose A.

 

He`s the best. So there.

 

 

He is definitely more than he was in AoL, no question about it. LTT never had to faced foes such as Shadar Haran (essentially an avatar of Shai'tan) or Fain. He has already done "impossible" things such as curing the taint. AmoL should be quite telling.

[Elan Tedronai]

shaidar haran is going to get pawned badly. there's nothing big about him apart from stopping people the ability to channel. hell the gholam itself would tear him apart if they even met face to face.

 

As for the taint curing. I think it helps if you are linked to a poweful female with the aid of the two most powerful sangreal ever created. Nothing impossible really about it. Oh and there was herid fel as well

[Entreri]

shaidar haran is going to get pawned badly. there's nothing big about him apart from stopping people the ability to channel. hell the gholam itself would tear him apart if they even met face to face.

 

As for the taint curing. I think it helps if you are linked to a poweful female with the aid of the two most powerful sangreal ever created. Nothing impossible really about it. Oh and there was herid fel as well

 

 

SH wields the True Power and would have rip the the gholam to shreds. It did change its size before molesting Mesaana. Clearly not your typical Myddraal.

 

There is a quote from RJ on this site regarding SH being a shadowy weaker version/avatar of Shai'tan. Alvarian: "The Great Lord, clothed in the skin of a Myrddraal".

 

Anything is possible when it is done, including the breaking of a shield held by 13.

 

Logain said only the Creator could have done it...that is how impossible Randlanders think curing the taint was. Even Aginor/psychotic Einstein of AoL, didn't even bother to contemplate it, clearly thinking it is impossible.

[Suttree]

SH wields the True Power and would have rip the the gholam to shreds. It did change its size before molesting Mesaana. Clearly not your typical Myddraal.

 

There is a quote from RJ on this site regarding SH being a shadowy weaker version/avatar of Shai'tan. Alvarian: "The Great Lord, clothed in the skin of a Myrddraal".

 

Do we know if the gholam/fox head medallions are immune to the True Power or not?

 

Also as for the avatar bit RJ said...

WinespringBrother: Is Shaidar Haran an avatar to the world beyond the Bore?

Jordan: I am not certain you can really call him an avatar because I generally think of an avatar as having exactly the same powers as, and it is not, Shaidar Haran does not have nearly as much power as the Dark One. It's as though the Dark One is able to project a shadowy form of himself into this creature - it is the Dark One in shadowy form.

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SH wields the True Power and would have rip the the gholam to shreds. It did change its size before molesting Mesaana. Clearly not your typical Myddraal.

 

There is a quote from RJ on this site regarding SH being a shadowy weaker version/avatar of Shai'tan. Alvarian: "The Great Lord, clothed in the skin of a Myrddraal".

 

Do we know if the gholam/fox head medallions are immune to the True Power or not?

 

Also as for the avatar bit RJ said...

WinespringBrother: Is Shaidar Haran an avatar to the world beyond the Bore?

Jordan: I am not certain you can really call him an avatar because I generally think of an avatar as having exactly the same powers as, and it is not, Shaidar Haran does not have nearly as much power as the Dark One. It's as though the Dark One is able to project a shadowy form of himself into this creature - it is the Dark One in shadowy form.

 

As you know, the TP is very different than the OP. The medallion was constructed using the OP. The Gholams were very likely constructed using the OP (given Forsaken's hesitance to use the TP and Aginor's disposition). Thus I would say with 99% certainty that both are toast if attacked by the TP (Mat and the gholam). Only way to be 100% certain is to ask BS.

 

Shadar Haran is therefore immensely powerful...given the phrase "not have nearly as much power" instead of saying "much much weaker than Shai'tan". RJ may not consider SH an avatar, by many other author's would.

 

SH would shred all the Gholam to pieces using the TP.

 

I suspect SH is no slouch in physical combat: Very likely SH has titanic physical strength (greater than gholam), much faster than a Mydrraal (easily gholam speed or possibly faster, see Mesaana encounter), can change shape (Mesaana), armor is probably some cuendiallar variant, and possibly it can heal itself.

 

What happens if SH detaches a Gholam's head? Would be a very interesting experiment. At the very least SH would toss the gholam around like a child.

 

If SH can block even Rand's new found Power, he is completely toast.