I need help

[Lessa Nikia]

So I like trying to figure out the prophecies/dreams/foretellings in the WoT and I'm having difficultly with one.

 

"The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one. The two must be as one. If you would live, you must die."

 

Anyone have an idea of what that means.

[Bela_theDo]

I always thought that means Rand should unite all of the Randland somehow.

 

But i might be missing something since i didnt read ToM yet.

[Cainam]

i agree with bela. i think there is more to dieng thing just not sure what.

[Elgee]

Spoiler alert

 

 

Lately the theory is that the North and East must be under Rand's control, and the West and South must be under Seanchan control.

 

 

To find out more, I'd suggest you head on over to the General Wheel of Time Discussion board.

[Tynaal Consen]

Spoiler alert

 

 

Lately the theory is that the North and East must be under Rand's control, and the West and South must be under Seanchan control.

 

 

To find out more, I'd suggest you head on over to the General Wheel of Time Discussion board.

 

Elgee's right.

 

And I think the if you would live, you must die. Might be similar to the last Harry Potter movie. If you've watched that or read the book. Maybe only through embracing death, can he truly live as both Rand and LTT - or perhaps in death will they be bound into one. There's many possibilities, I guess

[Lessa Nikia]

Thank you Mother *curtsies* That was my theory anyway

[Ireond]

I thought those were just square dancing commands.. They're prophecies? heh. Learn something new everyday.

[Mirshann Uuranor]

I thought those were just square dancing commands...

That would be the most awesome square dance ever.

[Ireond]

*grin* Get to work on the other commands and the moves that go with them. maybe we could have a dance at Jordancon

[Mystica]

Spoiler alert

 

 

Lately the theory is that the North and East must be under Rand's control, and the West and South must be under Seanchan control.

 

 

To find out more, I'd suggest you head on over to the General Wheel of Time Discussion board.

 

 

 

 

I'm still not ok with this theory, because it totally ignores the last part, namely the part where it says 'the two must be as one'. I know the theories on the discussion boards about this, but I don't agree with them. For one thing, the West and the 'South' are not as one. There are still areas in teh South that are 'not' under Seanchan control.

 

 

Tear, for one. Illian for another. Murandy, Far Madding, Mayene, Ghealdan. All of those are not under Seanchan controle. So the West and the South are 'not' as one. Only Tarabon, Amadicia and Altara are. Rand holds all the other countries in the South + every other country except those three.

 

As for the Seanchan, they themselves are still split. The Empress no longer holds Seanchan itself. So far from the West and the South being united under the Seanchan, it actually split up further.

 

 

 

as for the 'if you would live, you must die' part, that can still mean many things:

 

 

 

• 
   
  
• he might already have gone through that, with Veins of Gold. With 'living' and 'dying' being symbolical in meaning. He had to give up being Rand completely (die) in order to become the Dragon Reborn fully (live). - least likely because so far the prophecies were all literal in meaning even if the meaning only became known after the fact.
  
• he may have to die literally in order to live in the future again (aka: be reborn again). If the Light forces fail, no one will be reborn and they all will die 'permanently'.
  
• he may need to do a 'Mat'. Where he dies but then is ressurrected. This is my least favorite option, because once again it's too Messiah for my taste. I know the whole messiah thing has been an element of the books, but I still don't like it to be that obvious. *shrugs*
  
• Or, in order to defeat Moridin, he may have to give up his Rand body and overtake Moridin's (another theory in the discussion boards). I haven't been able to figure out how this would work, even after my current re-read. Fact is, that there is still a connection between Rand and Moridin. So that will need to be addressed at some point.
  

 

 

 

What we do know, is that there was a viewing by one of the Foretellers (or Min, can't remember which) of him on a funeral bair with three women standing over it. So that makes it more likely that he will actually 'die' physically. What happens then, is anyone's guess, really.

[Millon]

Spoiler alert

 

 

Lately the theory is that the North and East must be under Rand's control, and the West and South must be under Seanchan control.

 

 

To find out more, I'd suggest you head on over to the General Wheel of Time Discussion board.

 

 

 

 

I'm still not ok with this theory, because it totally ignores the last part, namely the part where it says 'the two must be as one'. I know the theories on the discussion boards about this, but I don't agree with them. For one thing, the West and the 'South' are not as one. There are still areas in teh South that are 'not' under Seanchan control.

 

 

Tear, for one. Illian for another. Murandy, Far Madding, Mayene, Ghealdan. All of those are not under Seanchan controle. So the West and the South are 'not' as one. Only Tarabon, Amadicia and Altara are. Rand holds all the other countries in the South + every other country except those three.

 

As for the Seanchan, they themselves are still split. The Empress no longer holds Seanchan itself. So far from the West and the South being united under the Seanchan, it actually split up further.

 

 

 

as for the 'if you would live, you must die' part, that can still mean many things:

 

 

 

• 
   
  
• he might already have gone through that, with Veins of Gold. With 'living' and 'dying' being symbolical in meaning. He had to give up being Rand completely (die) in order to become the Dragon Reborn fully (live). - least likely because so far the prophecies were all literal in meaning even if the meaning only became known after the fact.
  
• he may have to die literally in order to live in the future again (aka: be reborn again). If the Light forces fail, no one will be reborn and they all will die 'permanently'.
  
• he may need to do a 'Mat'. Where he dies but then is ressurrected. This is my least favorite option, because once again it's too Messiah for my taste. I know the whole messiah thing has been an element of the books, but I still don't like it to be that obvious. *shrugs*
  
• Or, in order to defeat Moridin, he may have to give up his Rand body and overtake Moridin's (another theory in the discussion boards). I haven't been able to figure out how this would work, even after my current re-read. Fact is, that there is still a connection between Rand and Moridin. So that will need to be addressed at some point.
  

 

 

 

What we do know, is that there was a viewing by one of the Foretellers (or Min, can't remember which) of him on a funeral bair with three women standing over it. So that makes it more likely that he will actually 'die' physically. What happens then, is anyone's guess, really.

 

I think they are very much separate is just isn't done yet. Draw a square and cut a diagonal from top left to bottom right. Saldaea to Tear. The top, Norht and east are Rands. The rest of the shadiness in the West was being put together by OTHER dominant characters. Perrin siding with Seanchan. Mat in Caemlyn and Elayne in a position of power to be an equal, with her Dragons, to the Seanchan. It just hasn't happened that we know of yet. All the things that happened with Perrin, Mat and now Elayne will seal the west as one. See what I mean? Too, the west doesnt just end at Falme. This could very well mean to include the land of Seanchan as well.

 

 

For the dying thing and for the cycle to end is the wheel will be broken, the DO sent back to his natural state and Rand dies. To prevent him coming back as another dragon Nynaeve rips him from the pattern ala Birgitte. Wheel broken, no more heros. That's why the horn has to be there for the last battle. The heros know that it has to be more of and ending than anyone realises. This is THE end of there beliefs. All of it. No more cycles. Just people going forward.

[Mystica]

I hope not, Mills. That would suck potatoes.

 

I just read a theory on theoryland (I think) that I quite like. I commented on it in the discussion boards.

 

 

NOTE: the link contains spoilers, so if you haven't read the books fully yet, be warned!

 

 

 

link

[Millon]

It's the central concept throughout the whole series. Thigs occurring again and again and NOT learning from it. The constant is what needs to change. I bet you this is the way it goes. The one thing I am concerned with is if there will be channeling of ANY KIND once this is done. I hope so. I will be VERY upset if we end with an end of magc tale again. Just like the old cartoon I cannot remember the name of where mathematics wins over the wizard and dragons and magic or even worse comparative to Goodkind (shudder). There better be channeling when this is done or Jordan will become the first and (hopefully) only person I curse i there grave.

[Naked~Frog]

She was right. In the books they already figured that out. Part under their rule and part under his. They will still be as one because Matt's marriage ensures peace between the two. Also once Rand bows down and accepts her rule over him.