Mafia Grievances

[RandA lThor]

wait... ppl play mafia sober? wtf?

for sure an amazing revelation to me.

 

I can't even imagine a world like this... and... I don't want to.

 

 

it's horrible. Stop thinking about it as soon as possible.

 

stop thinking about what?

 

six shots later I misrecall.

 

nice

 

life's good again

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

wait... ppl play mafia sober? wtf?

for sure an amazing revelation to me.

 

I can't even imagine a world like this... and... I don't want to.

 

 

it's horrible. Stop thinking about it as soon as possible.

 

stop thinking about what?

 

six shots later I misrecall.

 

nice

 

life's good again

 

... now it's six shots later than that and I'll hear about derailing an important thread meant for more specific whining.

 

check in again In a half hour though or the next SIMD

[kght22]

wait... ppl play mafia sober? wtf?

for sure an amazing revelation to me.

 

I can't even imagine a world like this... and... I don't want to.

 

 

it's horrible. Stop thinking about it as soon as possible.

 

stop thinking about what?

 

six shots later I misrecall.

 

nice

 

life's good again

 

... now it's six shots later than that and I'll hear about derailing an important thread meant for more specific whining.

 

check in again In a half hour though or the next SIMD

meh, getting wasted is an excellent excuse to whine... err, i think i got that backwards... whining is an excellent excuse to get wasted.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

ok I'll keep crying and grieving the mafia etc goodnight

[Basel Gill]

Anyone can say anything. I can say that I'm the Queen of England.

 

Mish is lying! I am the real Queen of England.

[Arez Al'Loke]

Anyone can say anything. I can say that I'm the Queen of England.

 

Mish is lying! I am the real Queen of England.

 

Dragqueen?

[bgrishinko]

I think that if people are having an issue with how someone is behaving in a game, let the mod know. If you don't let the Mod know and you keep it to yourself, there's no way to know if you feel it is personally affecting you.

 

Concerning EP: I'd rather have people trying to be smart and come up with gambits and sometimes failing miserably like EP does 3/4 of the time then not try at all. Afterall, he is sometimes successful. I'd agree with Despo in that sometimes people don't realize they are trolling in a bad way, and I think that applies to EP. Takes me back to my first point, if you think someone isn't playing by the spirit of the game PLEASE TELL THE MOD!

[Red2111]

again Arez, i apologize for putting your name in EPs place *smh*

 

 

also, it was not my intent for this to turn into a "gang up on so&so's playstyle" session. i'm taking issues with a tactic, reguardless of who uses it. it just so happens Ep was the agressor thsi time. i'd be complaining just as loudly if it were Wes, Mynd, Ishy or Verb who did this.

 

my issue is with the tactic, not with the player.

 

 

Honestly I don't think EP tries "trolling" people on purpose at all. I think he tries using that excuse when people start getting pissed off at him, because he has an abrasive playstyle, so that it looks like he has an excuse for acting like a jerk at times ("Oh don't worry guys, it was for reactions"). I think the canon discussions were him legitimately trying to put his two cents in about what he DID know about the story, I don't think he was purposefully trying to piss people off with that maneuver. He was and is purposefully obtuse at times, but I think it's because he thinks other people will think it's cute or something. And honestly, while he didn't do that great in that game, his scumdar usually isn't that bad honestly.

 

note - do not read spoiler if you have not read or watched "Game of Thrones" by George RR Martin.

 

okay are you seriously claiming that he wasn't being purposefully obtuse with

him stating multiple times that Joffery wasn't a bastard. even though multiple people whove read the series quoted stuff (to include from GRRM) which states point blank that Joffery is infact a bastard by the literal sense of the word.

 

 

Now, while it prob looks like I'm defending EP here, I will say that I don't like his playstyle much either. He goes for the big play WAAAAY too often, trying to look like a genius pulling off some awesome gambit or maneuver, when the vast majority of the time all his moves do is hurt his team when town. When scum, they can be surprisingly effective at times, mostly cause I think he's an easy candidate to bus rofl, but as town he either gets himself lynched and omgus's all the way down to the grave, or confuses and misleads town and distracts everyone from scumhunting cause they get peeved at him.

 

playstyles are one thing. people can play how they want, but if they employ a game tactic that is not kosher they need to be called out on it. this tactic was not kosher. my beef with this particular tactic is that it creats drama outside the game, and has nothign to do with actually playing the game.

 

 

 

That all being said, I honestly don't really have a problem with "trolling" being used as a legitimate strategy to play the game with. I don't think it's effective, and it will most likely alienate all the other players, but I'm all about people having the freedom to play the game in a ton of different ways. Some would say that Mynd trolls at times (although he does it like a gentleman), and it seems to work for him. If someone goes too far with this strategy however, it is easy to see that they will most likely piss everyone off enough to the point where they start policy lynching them, or just not playing with them.

 

Mynd doesn't troll for the sake of trolling, his "trolling" or "beating the grass to startle the snakes" is usually backed by in game reasons specific to the game he's currently using that tactic in. thsi is different than the tactic EP employed.

 

 

 

And I also think it's a violent overreaction to think that mafia would get banned just because of someone trolling.

 

if it creates drama outside of the game that leaks over into other parts of DM ... theres a reason why some Org's dont allow Mafia games on their boards.

 

 

I think DM mafia can withstand much more antagonistic personalities than EP's, and those that it can't withstand can just be disallowed from playing, if it ever became obvious that certain personalities were causing serious problems for the whole board. But I don't think we're really anywhere near that territory yet. EP can be annoying, but I think he just needs to learn to try and work with the team more often, and not go off the deep end trying some risky play just so he can feel like a badass. He might say that's how he enjoys the game, but if we were all playing kickball and someone was constantly coming up and stabbing the ball cause that's how they liked to play, well then eventually that kid would have to spend some time in timeout or something till he realized that he needed to enjoy the game in a way that let everyone else enjoy it as well

 

which is why i again clarify, this isn't about EP's playstyle its about a tactic he happened to be employing. and imo its better to take a proactive stance against tactics like these and bring the problem to the fore front rather than waiting for the snake to bite and punish everyone.

 

 

 

min in blue

 

 

 

 

I think that if people are having an issue with how someone is behaving in a game, let the mod know. If you don't let the Mod know and you keep it to yourself, there's no way to know if you feel it is personally affecting you.

 

Concerning EP: I'd rather have people trying to be smart and come up with gambits and sometimes failing miserably like EP does 3/4 of the time then not try at all. Afterall, he is sometimes successful. I'd agree with Despo in that sometimes people don't realize they are trolling in a bad way, and I think that applies to EP. Takes me back to my first point, if you think someone isn't playing by the spirit of the game PLEASE TELL THE MOD!

 

i did tell the Mod, as well as letting EP have a good piece of my mind about it on game thread if memory serves.

 

again, my beef isn't with how EP plays, i've said it before, in games i enjoy playing with him. his antics create a certain unknown factor to the game and usually, regaurdless of alignment, his antics give me something to work off of.

 

but, i do take issue with this particular antic as i see it as not a true tactic and more a creation of drama. mafia has enough drama in it, without aiming to create more for the sake of creating it.

[bgrishinko]

Fair enough then. I just see often times people moan and complain about something and the Mod was never informed. So good for you.

[peacesells]

Red..I don't see how your example of EP's play was something that would create drama elsewhere other than the fact it frustrated you to no end. Yes he was being obtuse. Yes he was obviously lying in a trolling fashion. But neither of those things should come across as a personal insult to you to the extent that it creates issues elsewhere. He was being childish. The worse it should have affected you was to maybe lose a little respect for him due to his maturity (lack of) level.

 

Now, if he had attacked you with a statement like this "You are nothing but a right wing blowhard who couldn't see an obvious point if it was an elephant standing in front of you" then I could see a problem.

[Red2111]

peace, it wasn't just the stuff i listed, those are just examples of a few things he was arguing abotu for the sake of arguing about that had nothing to do with game related discussion and scum hunting that i recall. his aim was to piss me off, not just to get a reaction but specifically to get me angery. he stated as much in the game thread if i reacall, something along the lines of "i wanted to get her mad to get a reaction, i'm happy with the read i've gotten, i'll stop and move on." meaning he would have kept on with different things at me until i finally got pissed off and reacted.

 

now i know how pissed off i was at this, i'm no longer mad but my concern still lingers over this. while all of us currently playing knwo that "what happens in mafia stays in mafia" and dont let what happens in games leak over into everyday activity of DM; there are people who are not so understanding or have the love of the game that we do. as i said, theres a reason why some Orgs dont allow Mafia to be played on their boards.

 

there are people who, as pissed off as i was at that point, would take the drama outside the game into their Orgs or other areas of DM. you say it wont happen, i say it has happened in the past. and while i didn't take EPs move as a personal attack, but as a poorly thought out tactic that shouldn't be employed because it garners no info, helps the scum and creates too much drama, others might take that as a personal attack.

 

 

you also overlook the other concern i posted on this; which is that this specific tactic will turn off people to mafia. we need new players, this keeps the game fresh; without new players, the game stalls out because it becomes one big meta-feast. while i'm not advocating a less than cut throat atmosphere (i mean come on, ya'll know how agressive i am), this playstyle goes beyond being cut throat and having a thick skin to semi-personal attacking and will turn people off from the game, even if its just one person using the tactic and only in a few games. those new players may stop or keep from playing for fear of being bullied

[Ithillian Turambar]

 

[peacesells]

Red..I understand your concern. I have two things to say about it.

 

First and foremost. We are responsible for our own emotions. How we hold ourselves in times of distress however it may come is a measure of our character. If fact, this is a credo I'd think you would wholeheartedly agree with and live given your conservative nature.

 

Second. Practically speaking there is no way to govern the actions you describe outside of peer pressure and still have a viable game. Everyone on is offended differently. Everyone has different opinions on what should be allowed. If you please everyone in this subject there will be no game. In essence, you are trying to "socialize" the game." Those who have the stomach to deal with a bit of anger once in awhile will push through. Those who don't won't.

 

Mafia is an exercise in mental strength. No exercise comes without some pain.

[Arez Al'Loke]

"

Everyone on is offended differently. Everyone has different opinions on what should be allowed

 

I agree so very much

[Basel Gill]

This seems like a good place for a rant. I am not going to be playing mafia for the foreseeable future as I have reached my boiling point. Over two-plus years, I've had games beyond counting where I have gone off for a work shift and been totally offline for several hours, only to come home and find myself lynched because I haven't been around. The usual line of moronic idiocy has been that I haven't been posting, and I haven't been making any effort to defend myself or reveal during the ensuing period. This has been despite a long-established meta that I AM NOT AROUND at certain times of the day on a regular basis in pretty much every game I play.

 

I can't even begin to describe what kind of obnoxious, offensive, garbage this is. Is my personal availability somehow indicative of my alignment? I keep seeing all the time that I leave when I am under pressure and I leave town hanging. Never mind that I leave at the same time every day. I leave when I have to go to work. End of story. This might come as a huge shock to some of you, but not everyone in the world has the ability to sit on their lazy ass and play mafia 24/7. So then if I think I might be run during the daytime while I am gone, I have tried revealing before I leave, only to then get hit for claiming unnecessarily. You people can't have it both ways. I can even understand somewhat when scum run me up when I'm not around to score an easy mislynch. But all too often, I have seen townies driving a lynch on me while I am out for the day.

 

I still plan on modding games. But I flat out refuse to put up with how scummy I am perceived somehow being dependent upon my work schedule any longer. If I see any sign that this will change, I might begin playing again. But I'm not holding my breath.

[csarmi]

You are perceived as scummy because you go of to your work shift with considerable pressure on you (high amount of votes, for instance) without making sure to make your announcement. Then you get back shortly before deadline, or even after it.

 

This is called "keeping the town hostage", I've seen you do this several times. I understand that some of the time (when you are town) it is NOT intentional, but try to see it from other's PoV - in the end it doesn't matter why you haven't been around, the results are the same.

 

Of course town shouldn't leave lynches to the last minutes but that's another story.

[Krakalakachkn]

This seems like a lot of work for a place to rant.

[csarmi]

Stop stalking me!

[Krakalakachkn]

I HATE YOU!

[csarmi]

oh well

 

it's okay then

 

carry on!

[Krakalakachkn]

Call me.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

I watch the games csarmi. every one he plays.

 

he goes to work the same time every day.

 

he usually has one or two votes on him because he's considered an easy lynch and if you can't figure out the timing the rest of the regulars can.

 

he comes back the same time every day.

 

for years the same schedule.

 

scum starts running him up while they know he's gone, they use the lines you're parroting, and by the time he gets back from work he's at L-2 or 1 with people yammering he's been gone too long (a whole work day ) and one scummer slipping off the train saying give him a chance to defend himself. classic scum tell by the way. as if there's a defense for that BS.

 

and then slides back on for the easy lynch.

 

it happens every game.

 

y'all should make all the games invite only if you run certain players off every time they play. he's by no means the only player that gets treated that way. I've seen some of that discussed openly elsewhere -'we hate so and so, lets lynch them so we don't have to deal with them."

 

blech.

 

enjoy the social club. it has you for a member and all.

 

carry on.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

Call me.

you shush

[Basel Gill]

You are perceived as scummy because you go of to your work shift with considerable pressure on you (high amount of votes, for instance) without making sure to make your announcement. Then you get back shortly before deadline, or even after it.

This just shows you aren't paying attention. I go to work with hardly any pressure on me. If I am leaving for my shift and I am at halfway to a lynch or more, I make a reveal then because I can and have pick up the remaining votes in that time, even the day before DL. I am referring to the numerous times that I have left with little or no pressure and gotten home to find myself dead because I wasn't speaking in my defense. The last time this happened, it was a townie claiming this must make me mafia.

 

So please, if you can't get your facts right, then put a sock in it and just shut up. I have been run up in absentia for the final time. Mafia has lost a player.

[Leelou]

Where did the term holding town hostage come from?