Egwene Poll

[Kahsm]

You like her..for others personal ambition in the face of certain world disaster is grating especially when she is the only main character displaying this trait.

 

Again you assume she's selfish. She's looking out for the world in the way she thinks is best. At the moment, that conflicts with what Rand thinks is best, and for some reason that makes her fain-like to you. Again, she needs to get her house in order before she can be of much use.

 

Sorry she doesn't mindlessly follow the DR and thoughtlessly dedicate her existence to every crazy whim he has while her position as Amyrlin exists at the whim of a hall that is often very self centred and even more divided in opinion.

[Suttree]

You like her..for others personal ambition in the face of certain world disaster is grating especially when she is the only main character displaying this trait.

 

I guess this may be the central issue to some people with Egwene. If you truly believe she values her personnel ambition over the greater good of the world, that her reforms/unification etc. is just a front and that she isn't doing what she deems best to help the side of the light, then I can see how you would dislike her...

[XXX]

You like her..for others personal ambition in the face of certain world disaster is grating especially when she is the only main character displaying this trait.

 

Again you assume she's selfish. She's looking out for the world in the way she thinks is best. At the moment, that conflicts with what Rand thinks is best, and for some reason that makes her fain-like to you. Again, she needs to get her house in order before she can be of much use.

 

Sorry she doesn't mindlessly follow the DR and thoughtlessly dedicate her existence to every crazy whim he has while her position as Amyrlin exists at the whim of a hall that is often very self centred and even more divided in opinion.

 

Ny doesn't follow the Dragon mindlessly and people like her. Moraine beats heads with the Dragon throughout the time she is there and people like her.

 

It is not a question of following the Dragon..she is the only person who leave 2 rivers for her own ambitions in the first book and that trait continues throughout the books. She is not exactly selfish but she looks to climb up the ladder. As I said considering she is the only character who displays this..it is annoying to many people. You almost hope that she falls on her face for her ambitions.

 

Egwene has in a way gate crashed her way to importance..the boys are special threads of the pattern, Ny follows for other people's sake. There is a difference between them and Egwene.

[XXX]

You like her..for others personal ambition in the face of certain world disaster is grating especially when she is the only main character displaying this trait.

 

I guess this may be the central issue to some people with Egwene. If you truly believe she values her personnel ambition over the greater good of the world, that her reforms/unification etc. is just a front and that she isn't doing what she deems best to help the side of the light, then I can see how you would dislike her...

 

She values her personal ambitions along with what is the greater good in her opinion...the only person from the 2 rivers who does that.

[David Selig]

Rand does not want to be the Dragon,does not want to be the ruler..wants to go home and live in a village. Perrin does not want to be a ruler, wants to go home and live in a village. Mat does not want to be a ruler or noble,does not want glory from battle, wants nothing other than to gamble and drink in small taverns. Ny wants to be an AS but only to learn healing and wants to go and live with the her husband.

 

Compared to all of them Egwene is ambitious.

That's one of the few things I like about her. Nothing wrong with ambition per se. Plus I really dislike the fantasy trope of the reluctant hero, who becomes a king and/or a world saviour even though he really doesn't want it and whine about it all the time (*cough* Perrin).

 

BTW, I believe in other circumstances, like not being the guy prophesied to die saving the world, Rand would've been much more ambitious IMO. Apart from the brief period in TGH, he never had a problem with being a leader, a Car'a'carn or a king, and didn't whine about like Mat or especially Perrin. But he knew that being the Dragon means he would die and most probably go insane in a few years at most, and naturally the glory and the thrones aren't big enough compensation for that.

[AshaShan]

Rand does not want to be the Dragon,does not want to be the ruler..wants to go home and live in a village. Perrin does not want to be a ruler, wants to go home and live in a village. Mat does not want to be a ruler or noble,does not want glory from battle, wants nothing other than to gamble and drink in small taverns. Ny wants to be an AS but only to learn healing and wants to go and live with the her husband.

 

Compared to all of them Egwene is ambitious.

That's one of the few things I like about her. Nothing wrong with ambition per se. Plus I really dislike the fantasy trope of the reluctant hero, who becomes a king and/or a world saviour even though he really doesn't want it and whine about it all the time (*cough* Perrin).

 

BTW, I believe in other circumstances, like not being the guy prophesied to die saving the world, Rand would've been much more ambitious IMO. Apart from the brief period in TGH, he never had a problem with being a leader, a Car'a'carn or a king, and didn't whine about like Mat or especially Perrin. But he knew that being the Dragon means he would die and most probably go insane in a few years at most, and naturally the glory and the thrones aren't big enough compensation for that.

 

I agree about Rand. His previous self wasn't a prophecised saviour after all and he still became one of the most preeminent politicions and generals of his Age.

 

Egwene's ravenous ambition is mainly a problem for me due to the way it drives her to believe that anything that advances the White Tower's influence (and so her own) is good for the world. I despise the 3rd Age Aes Sedai and consider them, with some very few exeptions, to be irredeemably corrupt. Yet Egwene, despite being best positioned of all the major characters to see the Aes Sedai for the fools they are, seems to have managed to convince herself that the sun shines out of the White Tower's basement. Ambition on its own would be nothing. Ambition in the service of such a cause as Tar Valon's... that will win you my ire. Especially when those ambitions place you in conflict with more sympathetic groups as Egwene's do.

[Elan Tedronai]

ravenous ambition? i guess everyone skipped chapter 36 of TOM.

[amegakure]

lol what about chapter 36. and i agree so much that she thinks everything she does has to be good for the world. like if she and the white tower wernt there the world would fall into chaos. Not true. although the lack of channelers would hurt. it would be a relief to have the constant scheming of rand. Plus with them gone he could focus on the black tower kill whoever taim is and recruit much more people and teach them under a good teacher.

[Himiko]

I dont like the way she is written. I think thats it. To me, it seems like she only became a main character because the real main three were all men. I mean its obvious she was meant to be Amyrlin from the EotW foreshadowing, but that happened by pure chance. There was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING she did to earn that title before she was picked by the rebels. Going against Elaida, the rebels could have put Cenn Buie on the Amyrlin Seat if they decided they wanted to.

 

It just seems to me that she wants to be Rand. Not consciously, but... Rand built up mass tolerance of pain through torture, fighting, being marked and saidin, rinse and repeat through several books. Egwene spends a bit of time with the Aiel specifically-SPECIFICALLY-to be able to handle Elaidas beatings. Theres no two ways about it.

 

Egwene: I want to be Ta'veren.

Rand: Well you're not.

Egwene: Oh, but I am.

 

She has some skill with the Power, and the whole Dreamer/Dreamwalker thing is cool. But thats as far as it goes in my oppinion. And even then, Perrin overshadows her with his ability, the first time I buzzed off Perrin for a looong time. Not because Perrin did good, but because he showed Egwene there were people with better skill than her. After TGS everyone was like "Oooh Egwene yay" when really she just did something anyone could and should have done. Which means linking with the novices isnt a big thing to fret over.

 

I hope she dies soon. But you know that if she does, she will be bound to the Horn out of pure cheesiness.

I agree with some of your views but she was chosen, by the rebels, due to her connection with Rand, she's strong in the power, and (they thought) easily manipulated and they couldn't agree on which powerful AS to choose in Salidar. Yet your right that it's a stretch to think about her when she's in the Waste and couldn't be farther than their minds at the time. Easily Nynaeve or Elayne fit the requirements as well or better. I just boils down to plot at that point and a suspension of belief. (I have some extra if ya need it )

 

In fairness, I very much doubt that Nynaeve really fitted the bill for being easily manipulated. Yes, Nynaeve CAN be manipulated, often to anger, etc- but bear in mind, she has had experience as leader of a group of women who consider her too young for the post, she is known as stubborn and short tempered, I very, very much doubt the Hall would have readily approved her. Elayne similarly had political training. I agree that Egwene's rise to Amyrlin was clumsily dealt with and felt forced at times, but within the reasons the Hall gave, Egwene made more sense than either of the other Supergirls at that point. It does still read like "Egwene became Amyrlin because RJ wanted her to be Amyrlin", to me, but there we go.

[lilltempest]

Egwene's ravenous ambition is mainly a problem for me due to the way it drives her to believe that anything that advances the White Tower's influence (and so her own) is good for the world. I despise the 3rd Age Aes Sedai and consider them, with some very few exeptions, to be irredeemably corrupt. Yet Egwene, despite being best positioned of all the major characters to see the Aes Sedai for the fools they are, seems to have managed to convince herself that the sun shines out of the White Tower's basement. Ambition on its own would be nothing. Ambition in the service of such a cause as Tar Valon's... that will win you my ire. Especially when those ambitions place you in conflict with more sympathetic groups as Egwene's do.

 

You're scratching the surface of why I loathe her. In my opinion, she is extremely adept at justifying everything she does and/or wants while condemning others for behaviors that mirror hers, so much so that she doesn't even see the similarities. She is an intelligent character, in some ways, but she is the lease self-aware character in the series. She orders women to swear fealty to her in order to keep them from manipulating her, but when she finds out that sisters have sworn to Rand (when she knew damn well that many AS meant him harm!) she condemns him and doesn't even consider that it might have been self-preservation that could have caused him to demand it. She condemns Elaida for demoting a full AS to Accepted by decree, thinking that the Amyrlin should not have such power, yet raises Accepted to full AS by decree for no other purpose than to have a show of power and to have at least a couple of sisters she can trust. It's all about what Egwene wants and needs, not about what's right.

 

The same applies to "helping the world". Egwene thinks the White Tower should be able to force the world to its will because she thinks SHE knows what's best. Why? Because she's Amyrlin, so it's fine for the WT and the AS to return to the days when they removed kings for not agreeing with the Amrylin's will (as she thinks about doing to Darlin when he doesn't turn on Rand fast enough to suit her). She condemns Elaida for trying to kidnap Rand because she says Rand must be free to fulfill prophecy, then demands that he submit himself to the Tower for punishment and evaluation as soon as he shows up to speak to her. Egwene behaves, in almost every way, like someone suffering from narcissistic personality disorder. She's never been told "No!" and suffered real consequences when she did as she pleased. She doesn't like anyone who disagrees with her and writes them off as being ta'veren influenced and/or stupid. The only time she backs off on her quest for power is when she's faced with a situation where she knows she will look a fool if she continues pushing and fails (like when she thought they could not hold Rand against his will, so she decided to let him leave).

 

The girl has a serious god complex, even more so than Rand did (also, Rand's was caused by madness and post traumatic stress disorder, so once he got control of his emotions, he got over it - as opposed to Egwene, who has always behaved like she wanted to be a god), and there are no signs that anyone will put a stop to it. Given that any "help" she wants to offer someone just happens to be in a way where she has complete control over them and is insisting that they obey her completely and without question (which is exactly what Rand was practically crucified for by all of the Egwene fans, as well as everyone around him in the story), I don't trust anything the girl says. Until she wakes up and starts analyzing her own behavior - and seeing how horribly she treats the people who care about her and who once called themselves her friends - I think she's completely hopeless as a character and will never find her likable or a truly "good" person. She came close in ToM, when she realized Gawyn was dying because SHE was an asshole and wouldn't listen to him, but Gawyn completely screwed that up by apologizing and agreeing to be her mindless slave for life, thereby justifying (in her mind) the very behavior she had almost begun to regret. Unless something happens at FoM to give her a hard smack to the face and wake her up, she is not redeemable. Worse, unless Tuon refuses to ally with her, I have a feeling the world is going to suffer a tyrant's rule with her running the White Tower. But since no one has the balls to stand up to her, they'll get exactly what they deserve.

[Kahsm]

You like her..for others personal ambition in the face of certain world disaster is grating especially when she is the only main character displaying this trait.

 

Again you assume she's selfish. She's looking out for the world in the way she thinks is best. At the moment, that conflicts with what Rand thinks is best, and for some reason that makes her fain-like to you. Again, she needs to get her house in order before she can be of much use.

 

Sorry she doesn't mindlessly follow the DR and thoughtlessly dedicate her existence to every crazy whim he has while her position as Amyrlin exists at the whim of a hall that is often very self centred and even more divided in opinion.

 

Ny doesn't follow the Dragon mindlessly and people like her. Moraine beats heads with the Dragon throughout the time she is there and people like her.

 

It is not a question of following the Dragon..she is the only person who leave 2 rivers for her own ambitions in the first book and that trait continues throughout the books. She is not exactly selfish but she looks to climb up the ladder. As I said considering she is the only character who displays this..it is annoying to many people. You almost hope that she falls on her face for her ambitions.

 

Egwene has in a way gate crashed her way to importance..the boys are special threads of the pattern, Ny follows for other people's sake. There is a difference between them and Egwene.

 

A little luck and a lot of hard work is more annoying that 3 characters who all won the lottery and do nothing to really earn their status. Yeah ok.

 

You like her..for others personal ambition in the face of certain world disaster is grating especially when she is the only main character displaying this trait.

 

I guess this may be the central issue to some people with Egwene. If you truly believe she values her personnel ambition over the greater good of the world, that her reforms/unification etc. is just a front and that she isn't doing what she deems best to help the side of the light, then I can see how you would dislike her...

 

She values her personal ambitions along with what is the greater good in her opinion...the only person from the 2 rivers who does that.

 

And that makes her a repulsive human being? Makes her a realistic human being IMO. And the 3 are or can be quite selfish too. Denying their roles for so long is just as selfish "I'm just a blacksmith!" "I'm just a sheep herder!".

 

Rand does not want to be the Dragon,does not want to be the ruler..wants to go home and live in a village. Perrin does not want to be a ruler, wants to go home and live in a village. Mat does not want to be a ruler or noble,does not want glory from battle, wants nothing other than to gamble and drink in small taverns. Ny wants to be an AS but only to learn healing and wants to go and live with the her husband.

 

Compared to all of them Egwene is ambitious.

That's one of the few things I like about her. Nothing wrong with ambition per se. Plus I really dislike the fantasy trope of the reluctant hero, who becomes a king and/or a world saviour even though he really doesn't want it and whine about it all the time (*cough* Perrin).

 

BTW, I believe in other circumstances, like not being the guy prophesied to die saving the world, Rand would've been much more ambitious IMO. Apart from the brief period in TGH, he never had a problem with being a leader, a Car'a'carn or a king, and didn't whine about like Mat or especially Perrin. But he knew that being the Dragon means he would die and most probably go insane in a few years at most, and naturally the glory and the thrones aren't big enough compensation for that.

 

I agree about Rand. His previous self wasn't a prophecised saviour after all and he still became one of the most preeminent politicions and generals of his Age.

 

Egwene's ravenous ambition is mainly a problem for me due to the way it drives her to believe that anything that advances the White Tower's influence (and so her own) is good for the world. I despise the 3rd Age Aes Sedai and consider them, with some very few exeptions, to be irredeemably corrupt. Yet Egwene, despite being best positioned of all the major characters to see the Aes Sedai for the fools they are, seems to have managed to convince herself that the sun shines out of the White Tower's basement. Ambition on its own would be nothing. Ambition in the service of such a cause as Tar Valon's... that will win you my ire. Especially when those ambitions place you in conflict with more sympathetic groups as Egwene's do.

 

Maybe she does and plans to chanage it. I hate most politicians, but I don't tbink we should end all democracy because of the current crop of crap.Some small process changes and some charismatic leadership to change mindsets can slowly bring the institutions around. And Egwene's actions during the WT attack should start to shame some Aes Sedai and motivate others, or at least accepteds and novices. She'll right the ship.

 

Egwene's ravenous ambition is mainly a problem for me due to the way it drives her to believe that anything that advances the White Tower's influence (and so her own) is good for the world. I despise the 3rd Age Aes Sedai and consider them, with some very few exeptions, to be irredeemably corrupt. Yet Egwene, despite being best positioned of all the major characters to see the Aes Sedai for the fools they are, seems to have managed to convince herself that the sun shines out of the White Tower's basement. Ambition on its own would be nothing. Ambition in the service of such a cause as Tar Valon's... that will win you my ire. Especially when those ambitions place you in conflict with more sympathetic groups as Egwene's do.

 

You're scratching the surface of why I loathe her. In my opinion, she is extremely adept at justifying everything she does and/or wants while condemning others for behaviors that mirror hers, so much so that she doesn't even see the similarities. She is an intelligent character, in some ways, but she is the lease self-aware character in the series. She orders women to swear fealty to her in order to keep them from manipulating her, but when she finds out that sisters have sworn to Rand (when she knew damn well that many AS meant him harm!) she condemns him and doesn't even consider that it might have been self-preservation that could have caused him to demand it. She condemns Elaida for demoting a full AS to Accepted by decree, thinking that the Amyrlin should not have such power, yet raises Accepted to full AS by decree for no other purpose than to have a show of power and to have at least a couple of sisters she can trust. It's all about what Egwene wants and needs, not about what's right.

 

The same applies to "helping the world". Egwene thinks the White Tower should be able to force the world to its will because she thinks SHE knows what's best. Why? Because she's Amyrlin, so it's fine for the WT and the AS to return to the days when they removed kings for not agreeing with the Amrylin's will (as she thinks about doing to Darlin when he doesn't turn on Rand fast enough to suit her). She condemns Elaida for trying to kidnap Rand because she says Rand must be free to fulfill prophecy, then demands that he submit himself to the Tower for punishment and evaluation as soon as he shows up to speak to her. Egwene behaves, in almost every way, like someone suffering from narcissistic personality disorder. She's never been told "No!" and suffered real consequences when she did as she pleased. She doesn't like anyone who disagrees with her and writes them off as being ta'veren influenced and/or stupid. The only time she backs off on her quest for power is when she's faced with a situation where she knows she will look a fool if she continues pushing and fails (like when she thought they could not hold Rand against his will, so she decided to let him leave).

 

The girl has a serious god complex, even more so than Rand did (also, Rand's was caused by madness and post traumatic stress disorder, so once he got control of his emotions, he got over it - as opposed to Egwene, who has always behaved like she wanted to be a god), and there are no signs that anyone will put a stop to it. Given that any "help" she wants to offer someone just happens to be in a way where she has complete control over them and is insisting that they obey her completely and without question (which is exactly what Rand was practically crucified for by all of the Egwene fans, as well as everyone around him in the story), I don't trust anything the girl says. Until she wakes up and starts analyzing her own behavior - and seeing how horribly she treats the people who care about her and who once called themselves her friends - I think she's completely hopeless as a character and will never find her likable or a truly "good" person. She came close in ToM, when she realized Gawyn was dying because SHE was an asshole and wouldn't listen to him, but Gawyn completely screwed that up by apologizing and agreeing to be her mindless slave for life, thereby justifying (in her mind) the very behavior she had almost begun to regret. Unless something happens at FoM to give her a hard smack to the face and wake her up, she is not redeemable. Worse, unless Tuon refuses to ally with her, I have a feeling the world is going to suffer a tyrant's rule with her running the White Tower. But since no one has the balls to stand up to her, they'll get exactly what they deserve.

 

This is just silly. I particularly like the part about she complained about demoting Aes Sedai but raised one given as an example of hypocrisy. Yes, doing the opposite is doing the same.

 

As soon as she abolishes the hall (which can vote her out at any time) then claim tyrannical rule. You're just being overly hyperbolic until then.

 

Gawyn was questioning her every decision in public. Give me one moment any bodyguard has publicly complained about a president while serving. It doesn't happen because it's inappropriate. Yes, gawyn and Egwene had young lovers communication issues, but it went both ways. And it's pretty easy to dislike her for that when other relationships are completely baseless (elayne).

 

And she thinks the WT is an institution capable of figuring out what's best under proper leadership. And it likely is the best of all those out there. And she believes she's capable of running it. What's wrong with that? You'd like her if she kicked and screamed and cried about home for 5 books then got super powered?

 

And she offered to plan with Rand, he refused, though like all other egwene haters you were blinded with rage after "submit" and couldn't keep reading I guess. And again, she has no reason to believe Rand isn't off his rocker.

 

Finally, she's never been told no? She works in a semi-democratic institution... lots of people have said no. She just makes sure she has the votes first. Wise one's said no all the time. So yeah, more lunacy.

[randsc]

Kael, seriously, chill. You're whining like an Aes Sedai. It doesn't help your cause.

[Suttree]

then demands that he submit himself to the Tower for punishment

 

IIRC I don't think that ever happened. Care to provide a quote?

 

I don't trust anything the girl says.

 

She has met her toh for the lie to the WO's about being a full sister. Have we seen her do anything else that would make her untrustworthy?

 

 

Worse, unless Tuon refuses to ally with her, I have a feeling the world is going to suffer a tyrant's rule with her running the White Tower.

 

On the contrary, Egwene sees the necessity of working together, reforming the WT and says straight out...

 

ToM "An Invitation"

If we try to hold too tightly to all of this, we will either become tyrants or fools, depending on how successful we are. I accept neither title.

[Guest PiotrekS]

You like her..for others personal ambition in the face of certain world disaster is grating especially when she is the only main character displaying this trait.

 

Again you assume she's selfish. She's looking out for the world in the way she thinks is best. At the moment, that conflicts with what Rand thinks is best, and for some reason that makes her fain-like to you. Again, she needs to get her house in order before she can be of much use.

 

Sorry she doesn't mindlessly follow the DR and thoughtlessly dedicate her existence to every crazy whim he has while her position as Amyrlin exists at the whim of a hall that is often very self centred and even more divided in opinion.

 

Ny doesn't follow the Dragon mindlessly and people like her. Moraine beats heads with the Dragon throughout the time she is there and people like her.

 

It is not a question of following the Dragon..she is the only person who leave 2 rivers for her own ambitions in the first book and that trait continues throughout the books. She is not exactly selfish but she looks to climb up the ladder. As I said considering she is the only character who displays this..it is annoying to many people. You almost hope that she falls on her face for her ambitions.

 

Egwene has in a way gate crashed her way to importance..the boys are special threads of the pattern, Ny follows for other people's sake. There is a difference between them and Egwene.

 

A little luck and a lot of hard work is more annoying that 3 characters who all won the lottery and do nothing to really earn their status. Yeah ok.

 

You like her..for others personal ambition in the face of certain world disaster is grating especially when she is the only main character displaying this trait.

 

I guess this may be the central issue to some people with Egwene. If you truly believe she values her personnel ambition over the greater good of the world, that her reforms/unification etc. is just a front and that she isn't doing what she deems best to help the side of the light, then I can see how you would dislike her...

 

She values her personal ambitions along with what is the greater good in her opinion...the only person from the 2 rivers who does that.

 

And that makes her a repulsive human being? Makes her a realistic human being IMO. And the 3 are or can be quite selfish too. Denying their roles for so long is just as selfish "I'm just a blacksmith!" "I'm just a sheep herder!".

 

Rand does not want to be the Dragon,does not want to be the ruler..wants to go home and live in a village. Perrin does not want to be a ruler, wants to go home and live in a village. Mat does not want to be a ruler or noble,does not want glory from battle, wants nothing other than to gamble and drink in small taverns. Ny wants to be an AS but only to learn healing and wants to go and live with the her husband.

 

Compared to all of them Egwene is ambitious.

That's one of the few things I like about her. Nothing wrong with ambition per se. Plus I really dislike the fantasy trope of the reluctant hero, who becomes a king and/or a world saviour even though he really doesn't want it and whine about it all the time (*cough* Perrin).

 

BTW, I believe in other circumstances, like not being the guy prophesied to die saving the world, Rand would've been much more ambitious IMO. Apart from the brief period in TGH, he never had a problem with being a leader, a Car'a'carn or a king, and didn't whine about like Mat or especially Perrin. But he knew that being the Dragon means he would die and most probably go insane in a few years at most, and naturally the glory and the thrones aren't big enough compensation for that.

 

I agree about Rand. His previous self wasn't a prophecised saviour after all and he still became one of the most preeminent politicions and generals of his Age.

 

Egwene's ravenous ambition is mainly a problem for me due to the way it drives her to believe that anything that advances the White Tower's influence (and so her own) is good for the world. I despise the 3rd Age Aes Sedai and consider them, with some very few exeptions, to be irredeemably corrupt. Yet Egwene, despite being best positioned of all the major characters to see the Aes Sedai for the fools they are, seems to have managed to convince herself that the sun shines out of the White Tower's basement. Ambition on its own would be nothing. Ambition in the service of such a cause as Tar Valon's... that will win you my ire. Especially when those ambitions place you in conflict with more sympathetic groups as Egwene's do.

 

Maybe she does and plans to chanage it. I hate most politicians, but I don't tbink we should end all democracy because of the current crop of crap.Some small process changes and some charismatic leadership to change mindsets can slowly bring the institutions around. And Egwene's actions during the WT attack should start to shame some Aes Sedai and motivate others, or at least accepteds and novices. She'll right the ship.

 

Egwene's ravenous ambition is mainly a problem for me due to the way it drives her to believe that anything that advances the White Tower's influence (and so her own) is good for the world. I despise the 3rd Age Aes Sedai and consider them, with some very few exeptions, to be irredeemably corrupt. Yet Egwene, despite being best positioned of all the major characters to see the Aes Sedai for the fools they are, seems to have managed to convince herself that the sun shines out of the White Tower's basement. Ambition on its own would be nothing. Ambition in the service of such a cause as Tar Valon's... that will win you my ire. Especially when those ambitions place you in conflict with more sympathetic groups as Egwene's do.

 

You're scratching the surface of why I loathe her. In my opinion, she is extremely adept at justifying everything she does and/or wants while condemning others for behaviors that mirror hers, so much so that she doesn't even see the similarities. She is an intelligent character, in some ways, but she is the lease self-aware character in the series. She orders women to swear fealty to her in order to keep them from manipulating her, but when she finds out that sisters have sworn to Rand (when she knew damn well that many AS meant him harm!) she condemns him and doesn't even consider that it might have been self-preservation that could have caused him to demand it. She condemns Elaida for demoting a full AS to Accepted by decree, thinking that the Amyrlin should not have such power, yet raises Accepted to full AS by decree for no other purpose than to have a show of power and to have at least a couple of sisters she can trust. It's all about what Egwene wants and needs, not about what's right.

 

The same applies to "helping the world". Egwene thinks the White Tower should be able to force the world to its will because she thinks SHE knows what's best. Why? Because she's Amyrlin, so it's fine for the WT and the AS to return to the days when they removed kings for not agreeing with the Amrylin's will (as she thinks about doing to Darlin when he doesn't turn on Rand fast enough to suit her). She condemns Elaida for trying to kidnap Rand because she says Rand must be free to fulfill prophecy, then demands that he submit himself to the Tower for punishment and evaluation as soon as he shows up to speak to her. Egwene behaves, in almost every way, like someone suffering from narcissistic personality disorder. She's never been told "No!" and suffered real consequences when she did as she pleased. She doesn't like anyone who disagrees with her and writes them off as being ta'veren influenced and/or stupid. The only time she backs off on her quest for power is when she's faced with a situation where she knows she will look a fool if she continues pushing and fails (like when she thought they could not hold Rand against his will, so she decided to let him leave).

 

The girl has a serious god complex, even more so than Rand did (also, Rand's was caused by madness and post traumatic stress disorder, so once he got control of his emotions, he got over it - as opposed to Egwene, who has always behaved like she wanted to be a god), and there are no signs that anyone will put a stop to it. Given that any "help" she wants to offer someone just happens to be in a way where she has complete control over them and is insisting that they obey her completely and without question (which is exactly what Rand was practically crucified for by all of the Egwene fans, as well as everyone around him in the story), I don't trust anything the girl says. Until she wakes up and starts analyzing her own behavior - and seeing how horribly she treats the people who care about her and who once called themselves her friends - I think she's completely hopeless as a character and will never find her likable or a truly "good" person. She came close in ToM, when she realized Gawyn was dying because SHE was an asshole and wouldn't listen to him, but Gawyn completely screwed that up by apologizing and agreeing to be her mindless slave for life, thereby justifying (in her mind) the very behavior she had almost begun to regret. Unless something happens at FoM to give her a hard smack to the face and wake her up, she is not redeemable. Worse, unless Tuon refuses to ally with her, I have a feeling the world is going to suffer a tyrant's rule with her running the White Tower. But since no one has the balls to stand up to her, they'll get exactly what they deserve.

 

This is just silly. I particularly like the part about she complained about demoting Aes Sedai but raised one given as an example of hypocrisy. Yes, doing the opposite is doing the same.

 

If you thought for 5 seconds about this instead of offering a knee-jerk rebuttal, you'd see that the power to promote and the power to demote are usually intrinsically linked. There was a procedure prescribed by the law for both raising and demoting an Aes Sedai. Both Egwene and Elaida have shown that it was no longer a matter of satisfying pre-defined conditions set by law, but instead it was the Amyrlin's whim that made a woman an Aes Sedai or Accepted. Every lawyer would tell you that the moment Egwene usurped for herself the power to raise an Aes Sedai in contravention of applicable procedure and custom, she took also the power to demote said Aes Sedai to Accepted or Novice, because it is her decree alone that is now the legal basis for the right to the title. And the Amyrlin can withdraw or change her decree when she wishes.

 

So yes, Egwene and Elaida has both done a lot to destroy the rule of law among the Aes Sedai and both wanted a more arbitrary, personal kind of government.

 

And she thinks the WT is an institution capable of figuring out what's best under proper leadership. And it likely is the best of all those out there. And she believes she's capable of running it. What's wrong with that? You'd like her if she kicked and screamed and cried about home for 5 books then got super powered?

 

I think she's wrong about that. It's plain common sense, why should they be able to figure what's best if they have gone from a blunder to a blunder for years?

 

And she offered to plan with Rand, he refused, though like all other egwene haters you were blinded with rage after "submit" and couldn't keep reading I guess. And again, she has no reason to believe Rand isn't off his rocker.

 

And Rand has no reason to believe she's not one of those people who put him in the box and tortured Min and him. Egwene acts with the premise she should play dominant role in the Last Battle - it's plain wrong, because that's the reason for Dragon's existence.

But I agree that in this scene the fault lies on both sides.

[David Selig]

If you thought for 5 seconds about this instead of offering a knee-jerk rebuttal, you'd see that the power to promote and the power to demote are usually intrinsically linked. There was a procedure prescribed by the law for both raising and demoting an Aes Sedai. Both Egwene and Elaida have shown that it was no longer a matter of satisfying pre-defined conditions set by law, but instead it was the Amyrlin's whim that made a woman an Aes Sedai or Accepted.

But the Aes Sedai aren't your typical organisation in which demotions happen all the time - once you are an Aes Sedai, you are always one except if you get stilled (the lawful stilling requires a trial and only very few Aes Sedai has ever been stilled after such a procedure) or burnt out. Shemerin was the only exception ever. On the other hand, new Aes Sedai are raised all the time and the Amyrlin is well within her rights to say one is ready for the Testing (though she usually leaves it to the Mistress of novices). The problem with the four she raised was that the testing ter'angreal and the Oath Rod were not avaiilable at the moment, but Egwene didn't intend to ignore that, as we saw in ToM when she innsisted that Nynaeve and Elayne went through the testing and swear the oaths. Sure, it wasn't strictly according to the laws and customs, but it was a far lesser violation than what Elaida did to Shemerin IMO. The reaction of Romanda and Sheriam was pretty mild.

[Puny]

 

On the contrary, Egwene sees the necessity of working together, reforming the WT and says straight out...

 

ToM "An Invitation"

If we try to hold too tightly to all of this, we will either become tyrants or fools, depending on how successful we are. I accept neither title.

 

It´s all talk. She may be thinking that she wants to reform the Tower, or be a different Amyrlin but she is not acting upon it. If we take the case with the raising of Nyn to Aes Sedai, she did it because she felt she needed someone to trust. That is an ok argument... but she fails to look at it deeper then that as an Amyrlin should. Nowhere does she reflect upon that what she did is the same as Elaida did, and how can she condemd her but to the very thing she condems Elaida for?

She thinks that she will do one thing and then does another. This is my view of it. Rand was like that and I didn´t like what he did either (even though you could claim he had a "right" because he is the Dragon... we saw how that went when he turned Dark)

 

To Kael: You are the one being hyperbolic. All the Egwene-haters.. I fracking hate that phrase and I´ve not been a member of this forum for long. I don´t like Egwene as a person/fictional character/whatever you wanna call it, simply because I don´t think she is very well written. I don´t find her arc believable or her believable and after some rereads that opinion hasn´t changed. She has had good moments but overall... no I don´t find her to be a well-written or symphatetic character. RJ wrote her that way... maybe it´s his "fault" maybe I´m not reading her as RJ "intended" but that doesn´t change the fact that I think she is badly written.

 

Does that make me a rabid, saliva-chewing Egwene hater? Hardly. I think she is totaly unrealistic as a character and the way she behaves/is written frustrates me in the same way when you know a girl who is self-centered/narrow-minded/indoctrinated/. As soon as there is some comment about Egwene doing something bad it´s Egwene-hate. Serioulsy...

I readily agree that Egwene has done good things. Yes. Does that balance out in my mind the bad things she has done. No.

[Elan Tedronai]

lol what about chapter 36.

 

 

it makes a mockery of people that claim egwene only cares about the WT and her ambitions

[Kahsm]

You're scratching the surface of why I loathe her. In my opinion, she is extremely adept at justifying everything she does and/or wants while condemning others for behaviors that mirror hers, so much so that she doesn't even see the similarities. She is an intelligent character, in some ways, but she is the lease self-aware character in the series. She orders women to swear fealty to her in order to keep them from manipulating her, but when she finds out that sisters have sworn to Rand (when she knew damn well that many AS meant him harm!) she condemns him and doesn't even consider that it might have been self-preservation that could have caused him to demand it. She condemns Elaida for demoting a full AS to Accepted by decree, thinking that the Amyrlin should not have such power, yet raises Accepted to full AS by decree for no other purpose than to have a show of power and to have at least a couple of sisters she can trust. It's all about what Egwene wants and needs, not about what's right.

 

The same applies to "helping the world". Egwene thinks the White Tower should be able to force the world to its will because she thinks SHE knows what's best. Why? Because she's Amyrlin, so it's fine for the WT and the AS to return to the days when they removed kings for not agreeing with the Amrylin's will (as she thinks about doing to Darlin when he doesn't turn on Rand fast enough to suit her). She condemns Elaida for trying to kidnap Rand because she says Rand must be free to fulfill prophecy, then demands that he submit himself to the Tower for punishment and evaluation as soon as he shows up to speak to her. Egwene behaves, in almost every way, like someone suffering from narcissistic personality disorder. She's never been told "No!" and suffered real consequences when she did as she pleased. She doesn't like anyone who disagrees with her and writes them off as being ta'veren influenced and/or stupid. The only time she backs off on her quest for power is when she's faced with a situation where she knows she will look a fool if she continues pushing and fails (like when she thought they could not hold Rand against his will, so she decided to let him leave).

 

The girl has a serious god complex, even more so than Rand did (also, Rand's was caused by madness and post traumatic stress disorder, so once he got control of his emotions, he got over it - as opposed to Egwene, who has always behaved like she wanted to be a god), and there are no signs that anyone will put a stop to it. Given that any "help" she wants to offer someone just happens to be in a way where she has complete control over them and is insisting that they obey her completely and without question (which is exactly what Rand was practically crucified for by all of the Egwene fans, as well as everyone around him in the story), I don't trust anything the girl says. Until she wakes up and starts analyzing her own behavior - and seeing how horribly she treats the people who care about her and who once called themselves her friends - I think she's completely hopeless as a character and will never find her likable or a truly "good" person. She came close in ToM, when she realized Gawyn was dying because SHE was an asshole and wouldn't listen to him, but Gawyn completely screwed that up by apologizing and agreeing to be her mindless slave for life, thereby justifying (in her mind) the very behavior she had almost begun to regret. Unless something happens at FoM to give her a hard smack to the face and wake her up, she is not redeemable. Worse, unless Tuon refuses to ally with her, I have a feeling the world is going to suffer a tyrant's rule with her running the White Tower. But since no one has the balls to stand up to her, they'll get exactly what they deserve.

 

This is just silly. I particularly like the part about she complained about demoting Aes Sedai but raised one given as an example of hypocrisy. Yes, doing the opposite is doing the same.

 

If you thought for 5 seconds about this instead of offering a knee-jerk rebuttal, you'd see that the power to promote and the power to demote are usually intrinsically linked. There was a procedure prescribed by the law for both raising and demoting an Aes Sedai. Both Egwene and Elaida have shown that it was no longer a matter of satisfying pre-defined conditions set by law, but instead it was the Amyrlin's whim that made a woman an Aes Sedai or Accepted. Every lawyer would tell you that the moment Egwene usurped for herself the power to raise an Aes Sedai in contravention of applicable procedure and custom, she took also the power to demote said Aes Sedai to Accepted or Novice, because it is her decree alone that is now the legal basis for the right to the title. And the Amyrlin can withdraw or change her decree when she wishes.

 

So yes, Egwene and Elaida has both done a lot to destroy the rule of law among the Aes Sedai and both wanted a more arbitrary, personal kind of government.

 

I don't even have to rebut, David Selig did a great job. It's very different for Aes Sedai. You need to look at it in context of the organization, not your own personal opinion. Plus, you've given an great example of something I'll talk about lower down. People who complain about change even when they go around talking about how change is required, BUT NOT THAT CHANGE!

 

And what else has Egwene done to manifest more power to herself? Since we've debunked this one. Nothing.

 

And she thinks the WT is an institution capable of figuring out what's best under proper leadership. And it likely is the best of all those out there. And she believes she's capable of running it. What's wrong with that? You'd like her if she kicked and screamed and cried about home for 5 books then got super powered?

 

I think she's wrong about that. It's plain common sense, why should they be able to figure what's best if they have gone from a blunder to a blunder for years?

 

I'm glad YOU think that way, but you are complaining about Egwene, and she wouldn't be much of a leader if she stood up and said "Well lets just shut the place down, we're a bunch of screw ups!". Honestly... no leader on earth would do that. They'd try to keep moral up while making slow changes to the culture of the institution.

 

And she offered to plan with Rand, he refused, though like all other egwene haters you were blinded with rage after "submit" and couldn't keep reading I guess. And again, she has no reason to believe Rand isn't off his rocker.

 

And Rand has no reason to believe she's not one of those people who put him in the box and tortured Min and him. Egwene acts with the premise she should play dominant role in the Last Battle - it's plain wrong, because that's the reason for Dragon's existence.

But I agree that in this scene the fault lies on both sides.

 

I didn't say Rand had to accept, but you can't claim she won't work with people because they refuse. That doesn't mean she's not willing, it means THEY are not willing. Very different. I don't see you complaing about Rand's refusal to work with her. Oh but he has an excuse, she might have put him int he box. Yeah well Egwene had no reason not to believe Rand isn't bat shit crazy out of his mind! So either they're both horrible vile tyranical people as you'd say, or neither are.

 

On the contrary, Egwene sees the necessity of working together, reforming the WT and says straight out...

ToM "An Invitation"

If we try to hold too tightly to all of this, we will either become tyrants or fools, depending on how successful we are. I accept neither title.

 

It´s all talk. She may be thinking that she wants to reform the Tower, or be a different Amyrlin but she is not acting upon it. If we take the case with the raising of Nyn to Aes Sedai, she did it because she felt she needed someone to trust. That is an ok argument... but she fails to look at it deeper then that as an Amyrlin should. Nowhere does she reflect upon that what she did is the same as Elaida did, and how can she condemd her but to the very thing she condems Elaida for?

She thinks that she will do one thing and then does another. This is my view of it. Rand was like that and I didn´t like what he did either (even though you could claim he had a "right" because he is the Dragon... we saw how that went when he turned Dark)

 

To Kael: You are the one being hyperbolic. All the Egwene-haters.. I fracking hate that phrase and I´ve not been a member of this forum for long. I don´t like Egwene as a person/fictional character/whatever you wanna call it, simply because I don´t think she is very well written. I don´t find her arc believable or her believable and after some rereads that opinion hasn´t changed. She has had good moments but overall... no I don´t find her to be a well-written or symphatetic character. RJ wrote her that way... maybe it´s his "fault" maybe I´m not reading her as RJ "intended" but that doesn´t change the fact that I think she is badly written.

 

Does that make me a rabid, saliva-chewing Egwene hater? Hardly. I think she is totaly unrealistic as a character and the way she behaves/is written frustrates me in the same way when you know a girl who is self-centered/narrow-minded/indoctrinated/. As soon as there is some comment about Egwene doing something bad it´s Egwene-hate. Serioulsy...

I readily agree that Egwene has done good things. Yes. Does that balance out in my mind the bad things she has done. No.

 

We already delt with how silly it is to compare making an Aes Sedai a novice as the same as making an Accepted an Aes Sedai but temporarily skipping some protocol. It's completely ridiculous to claim that is hypocrisy. You can claim that it's wrong. I'm not saying it was right, but it's nowhere near the same as Elaida's actions. It's like calling someone who wants minor tax hikes a communist/socialist, or end-of-life counseling is the same as death panels. Lets just say I'd feel bad for Egwene if you guys were in the Hall.

 

So on the first part, she can't just come in as Amyrlin, change EVERYTHING that's wrong with the institution, wipe her hands and sit back. There's a Hall she has to deal with. A hall that could choose to depose her at any moment. So she has to play politics. Make small changes here and there, give small demonstrations of being a better calibre Aes Sedai. The changes will be slow, and at the same time she needs to prep them for the LB. And deal with the day-to-day stuff. Everyone has the right to petition the Amyrlin, and that doesn't stop just because it's not mentioned recently.

 

Did the US dramatically shift left when Obama came in? No. Would he have liked it to? Probably, but that's the fastest way to get ousted, and he's ways less vulnerable than Egwene. The Hall is quite versed in stripping Amyrlins these days. She is a leader in the true sense of the term. She can lead people along the a path, but the Hall has to walk it before anything substantial will change.

 

Normally I would apologize for wide generalizations, but you sound like an Egwene hater to me lol. pretty sure the whole second paragraph was written in bile.

 

Also, I'm not even arguing she's done good things. I'm arguing she's not some crazy tyrannical power-mad fool who's on the verge of destroying the pattern with her arrogance and self-centred-ness. There's simply no evidence of that. It's all bluster. The only solid facts Egwene haters have is in her lack of "sympathetic"-ness. And who cares? Why does every good guy have to be a wussy crybaby? People seem to LOVE Logain, likely because he was sympathetic when gentled, but he was a false dragon who killed a lot of innocent people, but he's not HALF as bad as Egwene.

[Suttree]

 

On the contrary, Egwene sees the necessity of working together, reforming the WT and says straight out...

 

ToM "An Invitation"

If we try to hold too tightly to all of this, we will either become tyrants or fools, depending on how successful we are. I accept neither title.

 

It´s all talk. She may be thinking that she wants to reform the Tower, or be a different Amyrlin but she is not acting upon it.

 

I don't understand, this whole chapter was a meeting with the other channeling groups specifically ironing out changes for the future. How is that not acting upon it?

[lilltempest]

I don't understand, this whole chapter was a meeting with the other channeling groups specifically ironing out changes for the future. How is that not acting upon it?

 

Hopefully I won't regret initiating a conversation here...

 

The reason it does not seem like reform here (reform being that she doesn't wish to be a tyrant and doesn't think the Aes Sedai should rule all) is because of her thoughts after the Wise Ones say that they worried that she might try to chain them to the Tower. She thinks, a split second later, that no, she will tie them with ribbons. The end result, however, appears to be the same - she wants the Wise Ones answering to the Tower and, specifically, to her. The meeting with the other channelers was not about accepting them as equals to the Aes Sedai, but about getting them under her thumb so they accept her "leadership". It was all about manipulating them into accepting a WT leash, which puts her (in my opinion) in a very bad light and just drives home my belief that, for her, it's all about being a despot.

[Suttree]

I don't understand, this whole chapter was a meeting with the other channeling groups specifically ironing out changes for the future. How is that not acting upon it?

 

Hopefully I won't regret initiating a conversation here...

 

The reason it does not seem like reform here (reform being that she doesn't wish to be a tyrant and doesn't think the Aes Sedai should rule all) is because of her thoughts after the Wise Ones say that they worried that she might try to chain them to the Tower. She thinks, a split second later, that no, she will tie them with ribbons. The end result, however, appears to be the same - she wants the Wise Ones answering to the Tower and, specifically, to her. The meeting with the other channelers was not about accepting them as equals to the Aes Sedai, but about getting them under her thumb so they accept her "leadership". It was all about manipulating them into accepting a WT leash, which puts her (in my opinion) in a very bad light and just drives home my belief that, for her, it's all about being a despot.

 

No matter how you look at it, the proposals represent a sea change for the AS in how to deal with other channelers. Far from being a despot Egwene says they can not try to control all as before

 

ToM "An Invitation"

If we try to hold too tightly to all of this, we will either become tyrants or fools, depending on how successful we are. I accept neither title.

 

and recognizes all the groups will be vying for control, her final thoughts on the matter in that chapter...

 

"Then we have to play the best," Egwene said. "All of this is secondary, for now. We need unity against the Shadow and the Seanchan."

 

She says straight out she will not accept the title of tyrant. Why people try to cast aside what is actually written and make up the exact opposite like "it's all about being a despot" is beyond me. The bolded bit above proves what her true focus is...

[lilltempest]

She says straight out she will not accept the title of tyrant. Why people try to cast aside what is actually written and make up the exact opposite like "it's all about being a despot" is beyond me. The bolded bit above proves what her true focus is...

 

Because her words don't match her attitude, thoughts, or actions. First she thinks what she does about the Wise Ones, about tying them to the Tower with ribbons. If you want to ignore that one, fine. But what about her thoughts that she may have to replace Darlin with a more biddable king simply because he didn't jump to turn on Rand when she snapped? That is despotism. She has NO right to replace any kings. She is NOT an empress, yet she thinks like one because she is so determined to have everyone obey her without question. That is why she comes across this way to some.

[Suttree]

She says straight out she will not accept the title of tyrant. Why people try to cast aside what is actually written and make up the exact opposite like "it's all about being a despot" is beyond me. The bolded bit above proves what her true focus is...

 

Because her words don't match her attitude, thoughts, or actions. First she thinks what she does about the Wise Ones, about tying them to the Tower with ribbons. If you want to ignore that one, fine.

 

I didn't ignore it, I gave you a quote that shows Egwene understands what the reality of the relationship will be. Far from thinking they will "control" the wise ones she thinks they will have to "play best" and then goes on to say that is secondary to the overriding goal of facing the shadow. Again the WT for thousands of years has treated channelers a certain way, this whole chapter represents a huge reform from that way of thinking. This is not even remotely open to dispute.

 

As for Darlin not sure why you would condemn someone for a stray thought. Do we see her act on it at all? Should we condemn Rand for every stray thought during his "dark" period. I sure hope note because he would be a monster a number of times over. TG is coming, everyone has to look at motivations, quite clearly Egwene's are "We need unity against the Shadow and the Seanchan."

[lilltempest]

She says straight out she will not accept the title of tyrant. Why people try to cast aside what is actually written and make up the exact opposite like "it's all about being a despot" is beyond me. The bolded bit above proves what her true focus is...

 

Because her words don't match her attitude, thoughts, or actions. First she thinks what she does about the Wise Ones, about tying them to the Tower with ribbons. If you want to ignore that one, fine.

 

I didn't ignore it, I gave you a quote that shows Egwene understands what the reality of the relationship will be. Far from thinking they will "control" the wise ones she thinks they will have to "play best" and then goes on to say that is secondary to the overriding goal of facing the shadow. Again the WT for thousands of years has treated channelers a certain way, this whole chapter represents a huge reform from that way of thinking. This is not even remotely open to dispute.

 

As for Darlin not sure why you would condemn someone for a stray thought. Do we see her act on it at all? Should we condemn Rand for every stray thought during his "dark" period. I sure hope note because he would be a monster a number of times over. TG is coming, everyone has to look at motivations, quite clearly Egwene's are "We need unity against the Shadow and the Seanchan."

 

People's thoughts are usually more telling about their true intentions than their words. Yes, she believes unity is needed - under HER authority. That she has yet to act on replacing Darlin does not mean she won't do it. Again, her thoughts and her words conflict. What's more, her words can easily be linked to her thoughts. Do you remember her self-aggrandizing, never-ending arrogant speech to the Aes Sedai after she was raised by the Tower Hall? Do you remember how she said that the WT had manipulated and controlled (through "guidance", of course) the thrones of the Westlands before and they would get that glory and power back again? Sure, she wants unity...with her controlling everyone. Sure, she doesn't want to be seen as a tyrant or fool...because she intends to control via manipulation, just like the AS have always done. She does want complete obedience from the world (to be a despot) and she intends to get it by manipulating them into agreeing to accept her leash. I don't believe for a moment that she would replace Darlin outright...no, she would ruin him via political manipulation and "suggest" someone in his stead that would obey her more readily.

 

Look, I get it. You want to take what she says at face value (when it makes her seem awesome and perfect) and disregard any thoughts or actions on her part that put her in a bad light. The thing is that I don't. I do not give her the benefit of the doubt because I don't think she is a good "person". She serves the Light (I would never accuse her of being a Darkfriend) in her own way, but as I see it, she only does so in a way that gives her more power and is not willing to let anyone else lead. EVER.

 

She wants, by her own admission, complete obedience from everyone around her. But she is not an idiot - she knows if she attempts to force her will in a situation where she knows people will refuse to obey her or are capable of standing up to her publicly (Darlin, Rand at the WT, etc.) then she will look a fool - so in those cases she resorts to manipulation or political games behind the scenes (considering replacing Darlin, using the armies of the Westlands to intimidate Rand into obeying her).

[Suttree]

People's thoughts are usually more telling about their true intentions than their words. Yes, she believes unity is needed - under HER authority.

 

and what about actions? The entire scene clearly shows that she understands what the new relationship will be with other channelers.

 

"We achieve that by not holding too tightly, by bringing their channelers to train with us and by sending our most talented Accepted to become experts in the things they are best at."

 

Why is it so hard for you to admit that she has just initiated a reform that will change the balance of power to a more neutral field forever. Cant you see how much of a diff it will make to have AS who have trained with the Sea Folk and WO's? Those are not the actions of someone attempting to be a tyrant and to gain power against all costs. BS is a fairly blunt writer, he spells most things out instead of alluding to them. This chapter could not make it anymore plain in what he is attempting to show us about the evolution of the Tower.

 

"The world as it was cannot be ours any longer"

 

 

Look, I get it. You want to take what she says at face value (when it makes her seem awesome and perfect) and disregard any thoughts or actions on her part that put her in a bad light.

 

The funny thing about this is I'm not even much of an Egwene fan. It wasn't until I got on DM and saw the ridiculous lengths some go to vilify her that I felt a need to try and set the record straight. If you think she is a tyrant, who cares only for power and control(with a grudging admission of her not being a DF thrown in...thanks for that ) , I guess her actions will tell in AMoL. We will all have to read and find out.