Are the Amyrlin and Dragon Equal?

[Jon Paul]

Sorry but every time I read Egwene's scenes all I imagine is Cartment shouting "RESPECT MA AUTHORITAH!"

[Mr Ares]

I have to agree with what others have said about much of the recent Egwene/AS bashing becoming rather tiresome. I'm not a big Egwene fan, and there are legitimate criticisms to be levelled against her, and the same with the AS, but so many posts recently just exaggerate this to a ludicrous degree - Egwene is worse than the Chosen! No AS can do anything right!

 

Now, is Egwene Rand's equal? In what respect? Rand is necessary for the continued survival of the world, but he is not alone in that. Rand commands more soldiers, rules more countries, that much is not in doubt. In terms of political skill, military ability, Egwene is clearly better at the former, and I wouldn't say either has much of an edge in terms of the latter. In terms of bravery, I stand by an argument I made a while back - Rand essentially had no choice, while Egwene did make choices to make her a part of the story. Therefore Egwene is braver, because she chose this. Rand can only make the best of a bad situation. In terms of morals, that depends entirely on the reader. Even those who believe morals are objective are not necessarily going to be in agreement about what the objective truth is. Egwene is important - perhaps even vital - to the world, as is Rand. To attempt to argue about whether or not they are equal is pointless.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

I have to agree with what others have said about much of the recent Egwene/AS bashing becoming rather tiresome. I'm not a big Egwene fan, and there are legitimate criticisms to be levelled against her, and the same with the AS, but so many posts recently just exaggerate this to a ludicrous degree - Egwene is worse than the Chosen! No AS can do anything right!

 

Now, is Egwene Rand's equal? In what respect? Rand is necessary for the continued survival of the world, but he is not alone in that. Rand commands more soldiers, rules more countries, that much is not in doubt. In terms of political skill, military ability, Egwene is clearly better at the former, and I wouldn't say either has much of an edge in terms of the latter. In terms of bravery, I stand by an argument I made a while back - Rand essentially had no choice, while Egwene did make choices to make her a part of the story. Therefore Egwene is braver, because she chose this. Rand can only make the best of a bad situation. In terms of morals, that depends entirely on the reader. Even those who believe morals are objective are not necessarily going to be in agreement about what the objective truth is. Egwene is important - perhaps even vital - to the world, as is Rand. To attempt to argue about whether or not they are equal is pointless.

 

This. Now stop creating Egwene threads to bash her - there are enough of those almost solely dedicated to doing that - or you'll start sounding like a fanatic Whitecloak.

[XXX]

I think part of the answer is in the question itself. Is the Amyrlin equal to the Dragon, not is Egwene equal to Rand? It's not the person itself, but the position. (Even though it may be argued that for Rand/DR it is the same thing.) The position of Amyrlin has been the most important and powerful job for the last 3 millenia in Randland, and leads an organisation of paramount importance and potential power. The Dragon is the natural leader in the fight against the DO, but he is not the natural, or the best, leader of the world in other areas.

So, equal or not? Well I don't see the need of either kneeling to the other, at least.

 

 

Sorry the Amyrlin is head of one city state,nothing more nothing less..it does not matter in the big scheme of things if Tar Valon get's destroyed. No one cares except the AS.

BTW Egwene's Amyrlin position is no more the most powerful head in Randland,the position has fallen far from what it was when Siuan held the post.

 

Egwene should be on her knees in front of Rand..that she ask him to "submit" to her foolish tower makes her delusional.

[XXX]

 

Rand is prophecised to defeat the Dark One and save the world, also to Break it and herald the beginning of a new Age. Egwene is prophecised to be touched by a hawk.

 

 

 

lol..lol

[JKN-SW]

I think part of the answer is in the question itself. Is the Amyrlin equal to the Dragon, not is Egwene equal to Rand? It's not the person itself, but the position. (Even though it may be argued that for Rand/DR it is the same thing.) The position of Amyrlin has been the most important and powerful job for the last 3 millenia in Randland, and leads an organisation of paramount importance and potential power. The Dragon is the natural leader in the fight against the DO, but he is not the natural, or the best, leader of the world in other areas.

So, equal or not? Well I don't see the need of either kneeling to the other, at least.

 

 

Sorry the Amyrlin is head of one city state,nothing more nothing less..it does not matter in the big scheme of things if Tar Valon get's destroyed. No one cares except the AS.

BTW Egwene's Amyrlin position is no more the most powerful head in Randland,the position has fallen far from what it was when Siuan held the post.

 

Egwene should be on her knees in front of Rand..that she ask him to "submit" to her foolish tower makes her delusional.

 

Well you could argue that the tens or hundreds of thousands living in Tar Valon might have an interest in the survival of their city? Whether you like the AS or not, (and I'm not particularly fond of them) they have been the most powerful and influential organization for the last three millenia, and the Amyrlin is their kleader. Kings and Queens bow to hear and come at her call. Egwene has been Amyrling for the united tower for how long? Weeks or perhaps a few months? Hardly fair to judge her position on that a short period.

[Guest PiotrekS]

In terms of bravery, I stand by an argument I made a while back - Rand essentially had no choice, while Egwene did make choices to make her a part of the story. Therefore Egwene is braver, because she chose this. Rand can only make the best of a bad situation.

 

I strongly disagree. Egwene had a choice and made it - to seek a career as an Aes Sedai. She was brave enough to leave her village for something new (hardly an exceptional thing, although maybe more in WOT than in real world and especially in the Two Rivers) but that is about it when we look at consious choice as a proof of her courage. Her situation and Rand's are simply incomparable - with her serious defficiencies in introspection and empathy I doubt Egwene is even potentially able to comprehend the horror of Rand's situation when he is told he is the DR, looses his roots and family and learns that he is to live and die as a scapegoat (mad, hated and lonely scapegoat, let's not forget).

 

Rand's courage manifested itself in the way in which he faced his destiny. I really don't see anything even remotely similar in Egwene's case.Even her behaviour during the fight with Mesaana showed more of an arrogance and megalomania than courage, which would need a sense of danger that had to be faced and controlled. Egwene believed that she was the White Tower, all-powerful and invincible. When I think about it, I realize we don't really know too much about whether Egwene is really brave or not (and that's one of many personal traits of hers we know nothing about because of the inhuman way she is written...).

[David Selig]

Sorry the Amyrlin is head of one city state,nothing more nothing less..it does not matter in the big scheme of things if Tar Valon get's destroyed. No one cares except the AS.

The hundreds of thousands non-Aes Sedai who live in Tar Valon strongly disagree with you.

 

Not to mention that it's the biggest commercial and financial centre in Randland. But who cares, right, those arrogant Aes Sedai has to be punished at all costs...

[randsc]

No, they're not equal. They're not intended to be equal. Egwene is not, as far as we know, even essential to the light-side victory. Which makes her not the equal of Mat or Perrin, never mind Rand.

 

Is the "submit to the guidance of the Tower" thing idiocy? Yes, but it is an idiocy born of the arrogance of once nearly omnipotent but now decayed and decadent organization. It is not an indicator of the respective positions of the Amyrlin and the Dragon Reborn.

 

As for the rankings by bravery (which seems to me to be a foolish exercise, but whatever, if you want to play that game, we can) I don't know that there is much to choose between the two. Rand has faced far greater threats and dangers (far, far, far, far, far to the nth degree...) but they have both reacted to threats with courage. The argument that Egwene is braver because she choose her path and Rand did not is extremely silly. I choose to fight fires for a living. That doesn't make me automatically braver than a random passerby who pulls people from a burning building (the opposite is very probably true). Bravery is in the action, not in how you came to find yourself in a position to act.

[SharpDressedAsha'Man]

Well you could argue that the tens or hundreds of thousands living in Tar Valon might have an interest in the survival of their city? Whether you like the AS or not, (and I'm not particularly fond of them) they have been the most powerful and influential organization for the last three millenia, and the Amyrlin is their kleader. Kings and Queens bow to hear and come at her call. Egwene has been Amyrling for the united tower for how long? Weeks or perhaps a few months? Hardly fair to judge her position on that a short period.

Kings and Queens come to the tower's call because, until now, the Amyrlin was the only known ruler in the world who could turn them to ash in the blink of an eye. Or so people thought anyway; they've mystified and dehumanised themselves almost as much as the Forsaken. Heed Tam's words, a bully is a bully.

 

You've got to remember though, Lews Therin was a more than capable leader and diplomat. He wore the Ring of the Tamyrlin, which is the closest thing to 'ruling' the world that we know has existed in Randland. And guess who has LTT's memories and (so it seems) has taken on the better parts of his personality?

 

Seems like the Dragon even beats the Amyrlin at being Amyrlin

[SuperFade]

In terms of bravery, I stand by an argument I made a while back - Rand essentially had no choice, while Egwene did make choices to make her a part of the story. Therefore Egwene is braver, because she chose this. Rand can only make the best of a bad situation.

 

So what if he didn't have a choice? That doesn't mean a damn thing. In fact, it actually makes him more heroic; he knows he will die at the end, knows that the whole world will hate him and never give him any respect, knows that even if he does win the world will still be broken. And yet he struggles on anyway, because he's the only one who can. He's faced far more horrors, worse torture and more painful betrayals than Egwene ever has, and the fact that he couldn't have walked away in no way diminishes his accomplishments in comparison to her.

[randsc]

No one has a choice, in a world with a Pattern and ta'veren. And that includes Egwene.

[Rose]

I must say I'm amazed by the amount of energy some people invest into hating a character. All I can say is, if she's hated so much, it's probably because she's well written. And you know, the whole idea of people being in positions of power and dealing badly with it is somewhat recurrent in WoT. And so is the theme of people with good intentions making wrong decisions because of their pride or arrogance. Almost all of the main characters have gone through that to some extent, and Rand not the least of them. Well now it's Egwene's turn. And don't go saying she doesn't have good intentions, that she's just utterly selfish and power crazy, because that's simply not true. I'm not trying to make a comparison with Rand or anything, because he's simply on a different level, but bear in mind that she didn't have much of a choice in many instances either.

 

Yes, she chose to leave the Two Rivers with the boys. But then, she kind of had to go to the Tower to learn since she had the spark. And then, she didn't really choose to get abducted by the Seanchan. Nor did she ask to be sent hunting the Black Ajah. Or to be a Dreamer and have to learn more to avoid hurting herself by accident. Or to be summoned to become the Amyrlin seat in Salidar. She basically got bumped from one place to another and had no choice but to adapt. Admittedly, in some cases, she could have said no and run away. But so could have Rand. She didn't run away because she was brave enough and had a sense of duty strong enough to stay and do her best. And as we know, when she decides to do her best, she's kind of good at it.

 

Now from there, she started gaining more and more power, and what had happened to most characters much earlier happened to her later in the books, what I like to call the Super Hero Syndrome. When you are so powerful, when everybody is expecting so much of you and you have so many responsibilities, it is not a stretch to think that you'd go a bit crazy with it. Now I'm not saying she's right to act that way, but it's understandable, and she's hardly the only one who has gone through that. Her timing is just a bit unfortunate, and in contrast with Rand's newly found sanity, it looks worse.

 

Now to answer the initial question, it's a tough one to consider because the Dragon isn't something you routinely have around all the time. His appearance is exceptional, while the Amyrlin is a positions that's thousands of years old. For that matter, "Dragon" isn't even a position. I think they operate on completely different levels, but I also think they're kind of complementary. After all, the Dragon is not, I think, intended to be a ruler. He is supposed to be a leader who will lead the world to victory at Tarmon Gaidon. He does not really have political power. He is not meant to rule the world. The Amyrlin, on the contrary, is very much ruler with a great deal of political power. But the Amyrlin has no business leading the worldwide war against the Shadow, at least not if the Dragon is there to do it. The way I see it, they really need to act together. The Amyrlin has to get her forces to follow the Dragon's lead against the Shadow. And the Dragon has to respect the Amyrlin's (or any other ruler's for that matter) political authority and not think he should run their countries for them. Elayne has understood that quite well, I believe.

[Kahsm]

I must say I'm amazed by the amount of energy some people invest into hating a character. All I can say is, if she's hated so much, it's probably because she's well written. And you know, the whole idea of people being in positions of power and dealing badly with it is somewhat recurrent in WoT. And so is the theme of people with good intentions making wrong decisions because of their pride or arrogance. Almost all of the main characters have gone through that to some extent, and Rand not the least of them. Well now it's Egwene's turn. And don't go saying she doesn't have good intentions, that she's just utterly selfish and power crazy, because that's simply not true. I'm not trying to make a comparison with Rand or anything, because he's simply on a different level, but bear in mind that she didn't have much of a choice in many instances either.

 

Yes, she chose to leave the Two Rivers with the boys. But then, she kind of had to go to the Tower to learn since she had the spark. And then, she didn't really choose to get abducted by the Seanchan. Nor did she ask to be sent hunting the Black Ajah. Or to be a Dreamer and have to learn more to avoid hurting herself by accident. Or to be summoned to become the Amyrlin seat in Salidar. She basically got bumped from one place to another and had no choice but to adapt. Admittedly, in some cases, she could have said no and run away. But so could have Rand. She didn't run away because she was brave enough and had a sense of duty strong enough to stay and do her best. And as we know, when she decides to do her best, she's kind of good at it.

 

Now from there, she started gaining more and more power, and what had happened to most characters much earlier happened to her later in the books, what I like to call the Super Hero Syndrome. When you are so powerful, when everybody is expecting so much of you and you have so many responsibilities, it is not a stretch to think that you'd go a bit crazy with it. Now I'm not saying she's right to act that way, but it's understandable, and she's hardly the only one who has gone through that. Her timing is just a bit unfortunate, and in contrast with Rand's newly found sanity, it looks worse.

 

Now to answer the initial question, it's a tough one to consider because the Dragon isn't something you routinely have around all the time. His appearance is exceptional, while the Amyrlin is a positions that's thousands of years old. For that matter, "Dragon" isn't even a position. I think they operate on completely different levels, but I also think they're kind of complementary. After all, the Dragon is not, I think, intended to be a ruler. He is supposed to be a leader who will lead the world to victory at Tarmon Gaidon. He does not really have political power. He is not meant to rule the world. The Amyrlin, on the contrary, is very much ruler with a great deal of political power. But the Amyrlin has no business leading the worldwide war against the Shadow, at least not if the Dragon is there to do it. The way I see it, they really need to act together. The Amyrlin has to get her forces to follow the Dragon's lead against the Shadow. And the Dragon has to respect the Amyrlin's (or any other ruler's for that matter) political authority and not think he should run their countries for them. Elayne has understood that quite well, I believe.

 

I know this is often considered bad forum etiquette, but all I really have to say to this is -- hear hear! You should cut and paste this into every forum XXX47 has made and likely ever will make.

[randsc]

Except that it is wrong, in several important respects. The Dragon breaks all bonds, incluing the political. It is very clear that the prophecies say exactly that, and are understood as saying that by many people in-story. So no, the Dragon need not respect the Amyrlin's political authority, or that of any other political figure. And if he had shown that sort of deference to the established political order, the story would already be over and the light would have lost.

[XXX]

I have to agree with what others have said about much of the recent Egwene/AS bashing becoming rather tiresome. I'm not a big Egwene fan, and there are legitimate criticisms to be levelled against her, and the same with the AS, but so many posts recently just exaggerate this to a ludicrous degree - Egwene is worse than the Chosen! No AS can do anything right!

 

Now, is Egwene Rand's equal? In what respect? Rand is necessary for the continued survival of the world, but he is not alone in that. Rand commands more soldiers, rules more countries, that much is not in doubt. In terms of political skill, military ability, Egwene is clearly better at the former, and I wouldn't say either has much of an edge in terms of the latter. In terms of bravery, I stand by an argument I made a while back - Rand essentially had no choice, while Egwene did make choices to make her a part of the story. Therefore Egwene is braver, because she chose this. Rand can only make the best of a bad situation. In terms of morals, that depends entirely on the reader. Even those who believe morals are objective are not necessarily going to be in agreement about what the objective truth is. Egwene is important - perhaps even vital - to the world, as is Rand. To attempt to argue about whether or not they are equal is pointless.

 

 

You must be kidding me..the Dragon and the Amyrlin are equal in military ability?...Rand has 3 out of 4 great captains sworn to him,has a lot more armies, Mat and Perin are loyal to him. He is the chief of the Aiel,the best fighters in all of Randland.

 

Individually Rand can melt Egwene out of existence at the blink of an eye..they are equal seriously?

 

And why exactly is Egwene vital to the World as Rand..if she is dead another Amyrlin will be chosen.

[Kahsm]

Except that it is wrong, in several important respects. The Dragon breaks all bonds, incluing the political. It is very clear that the prophecies say exactly that, and are understood as saying that by many people in-story. So no, the Dragon need not respect the Amyrlin's political authority, or that of any other political figure. And if he had shown that sort of deference to the established political order, the story would already be over and the light would have lost.

 

Except that he only takes over, by force, lands that he had to. Rand tries very hard to be as 'discrete' (for lack of a better word) as possible. You seem to be speaking as if the Dragon should act like Artur Hawkwing reborn and not LTT. Rand knows he won't be the Dragon after the LB (he assumes he'll be dead) and he's smart enough to know not to leave the world tearing itself apart (like APT did). The Amyrlin can be a huge part of keeping the Dragon's peace (if it ever actually happens). He doesn't have to bow and kneel to her, but simply respect her position. As I believe he did by showing up at the Tower and asking for an audience (as any citizen has the right to do) on her terms. Unfortunately, he's being a dick about his plan to break the seals and being as bad as the worst meddling Aes Sedai by playing games with someone who would probably help him if he just explained his position.

 

So while you may be right, this particular Dragon is not interested breaking all bonds if he doesn't have to. And there's no indication he NEEDS to break this one.

[XXX]

I must say I'm amazed by the amount of energy some people invest into hating a character. All I can say is, if she's hated so much, it's probably because she's well written. And you know, the whole idea of people being in positions of power and dealing badly with it is somewhat recurrent in WoT. And so is the theme of people with good intentions making wrong decisions because of their pride or arrogance. Almost all of the main characters have gone through that to some extent, and Rand not the least of them. Well now it's Egwene's turn. And don't go saying she doesn't have good intentions, that she's just utterly selfish and power crazy, because that's simply not true. I'm not trying to make a comparison with Rand or anything, because he's simply on a different level, but bear in mind that she didn't have much of a choice in many instances either.

 

Yes, she chose to leave the Two Rivers with the boys. But then, she kind of had to go to the Tower to learn since she had the spark. And then, she didn't really choose to get abducted by the Seanchan. Nor did she ask to be sent hunting the Black Ajah. Or to be a Dreamer and have to learn more to avoid hurting herself by accident. Or to be summoned to become the Amyrlin seat in Salidar. She basically got bumped from one place to another and had no choice but to adapt. Admittedly, in some cases, she could have said no and run away. But so could have Rand. She didn't run away because she was brave enough and had a sense of duty strong enough to stay and do her best. And as we know, when she decides to do her best, she's kind of good at it.

 

Now from there, she started gaining more and more power, and what had happened to most characters much earlier happened to her later in the books, what I like to call the Super Hero Syndrome. When you are so powerful, when everybody is expecting so much of you and you have so many responsibilities, it is not a stretch to think that you'd go a bit crazy with it. Now I'm not saying she's right to act that way, but it's understandable, and she's hardly the only one who has gone through that. Her timing is just a bit unfortunate, and in contrast with Rand's newly found sanity, it looks worse.

 

Now to answer the initial question, it's a tough one to consider because the Dragon isn't something you routinely have around all the time. His appearance is exceptional, while the Amyrlin is a positions that's thousands of years old. For that matter, "Dragon" isn't even a position. I think they operate on completely different levels, but I also think they're kind of complementary. After all, the Dragon is not, I think, intended to be a ruler. He is supposed to be a leader who will lead the world to victory at Tarmon Gaidon. He does not really have political power. He is not meant to rule the world. The Amyrlin, on the contrary, is very much ruler with a great deal of political power. But the Amyrlin has no business leading the worldwide war against the Shadow, at least not if the Dragon is there to do it. The way I see it, they really need to act together. The Amyrlin has to get her forces to follow the Dragon's lead against the Shadow. And the Dragon has to respect the Amyrlin's (or any other ruler's for that matter) political authority and not think he should run their countries for them. Elayne has understood that quite well, I believe.

 

I agree with this post...the Amyrlin is equal to the head of the BT or King and Queens of Randland. Nothing more and nothing less. Unfortunately Egwene with her "submit to the tower" non sense thinks herself above everyone else.

[XXX]

Sorry the Amyrlin is head of one city state,nothing more nothing less..it does not matter in the big scheme of things if Tar Valon get's destroyed. No one cares except the AS.

The hundreds of thousands non-Aes Sedai who live in Tar Valon strongly disagree with you.

 

Not to mention that it's the biggest commercial and financial centre in Randland. But who cares, right, those arrogant Aes Sedai has to be punished at all costs...

 

 

Is Tar Valon more important than the Seachan who controls vastly more areas..including an entire continent bigger than Randland?

 

Both are not as important as the world..Tar Valon can fall into the sea and the world will live on. Rand fails and it is all over.

[Kahsm]

Sorry the Amyrlin is head of one city state,nothing more nothing less..it does not matter in the big scheme of things if Tar Valon get's destroyed. No one cares except the AS.

The hundreds of thousands non-Aes Sedai who live in Tar Valon strongly disagree with you.

 

Not to mention that it's the biggest commercial and financial centre in Randland. But who cares, right, those arrogant Aes Sedai has to be punished at all costs...

 

 

Is Tar Valon more important than the Seachan who controls vastly more areas..including an entire continent bigger than Randland?

 

Both are not as important as the world..Tar Valon can fall into the sea and the world will live on. Rand fails and it is all over.

 

Not that I'm surprised, but now you're just being ridiculous. Yes that is true. But just about anyone, or any group other than The Dragon, could disappear and the same "logic" (and I use that word extremely loosely) would apply.

[XXX]

Except that it is wrong, in several important respects. The Dragon breaks all bonds, incluing the political. It is very clear that the prophecies say exactly that, and are understood as saying that by many people in-story. So no, the Dragon need not respect the Amyrlin's political authority, or that of any other political figure. And if he had shown that sort of deference to the established political order, the story would already be over and the light would have lost.

 

Except that he only takes over, by force, lands that he had to. Rand tries very hard to be as 'discrete' (for lack of a better word) as possible. You seem to be speaking as if the Dragon should act like Artur Hawkwing reborn and not LTT. Rand knows he won't be the Dragon after the LB (he assumes he'll be dead) and he's smart enough to know not to leave the world tearing itself apart (like APT did). The Amyrlin can be a huge part of keeping the Dragon's peace (if it ever actually happens). He doesn't have to bow and kneel to her, but simply respect her position. As I believe he did by showing up at the Tower and asking for an audience (as any citizen has the right to do) on her terms. Unfortunately, he's being a dick about his plan to break the seals and being as bad as the worst meddling Aes Sedai by playing games with someone who would probably help him if he just explained his position.

So while you may be right, this particular Dragon is not interested breaking all bonds if he doesn't have to. And there's no indication he NEEDS to break this one.

 

 

He does not have to...Egwene is not equal to the Dragon. She follows his lead. If he asks for advice she should give it otherwise shut her trap.

[XXX]

Sorry the Amyrlin is head of one city state,nothing more nothing less..it does not matter in the big scheme of things if Tar Valon get's destroyed. No one cares except the AS.

The hundreds of thousands non-Aes Sedai who live in Tar Valon strongly disagree with you.

 

Not to mention that it's the biggest commercial and financial centre in Randland. But who cares, right, those arrogant Aes Sedai has to be punished at all costs...

 

 

Is Tar Valon more important than the Seachan who controls vastly more areas..including an entire continent bigger than Randland?

 

Both are not as important as the world..Tar Valon can fall into the sea and the world will live on. Rand fails and it is all over.

 

Not that I'm surprised, but now you're just being ridiculous. Yes that is true. But just about anyone, or any group other than The Dragon, could disappear and the same "logic" (and I use that word extremely loosely) would apply.

 

I was replying to the above poster who was telling me about the importance of Tar Valon..as I just showed it is nothing compared to the world.

[David Selig]

Except that it is wrong, in several important respects. The Dragon breaks all bonds, incluing the political. It is very clear that the prophecies say exactly that, and are understood as saying that by many people in-story. So no, the Dragon need not respect the Amyrlin's political authority, or that of any other political figure. And if he had shown that sort of deference to the established political order, the story would already be over and the light would have lost.

Except that he only takes over, by force, lands that he had to. Rand tries very hard to be as 'discrete' (for lack of a better word) as possible. You seem to be speaking as if the Dragon should act like Artur Hawkwing reborn and not LTT. Rand knows he won't be the Dragon after the LB (he assumes he'll be dead) and he's smart enough to know not to leave the world tearing itself apart (like APT did). The Amyrlin can be a huge part of keeping the Dragon's peace (if it ever actually happens). He doesn't have to bow and kneel to her, but simply respect her position. As I believe he did by showing up at the Tower and asking for an audience (as any citizen has the right to do) on her terms. Unfortunately, he's being a dick about his plan to break the seals and being as bad as the worst meddling Aes Sedai by playing games with someone who would probably help him if he just explained his position.So while you may be right, this particular Dragon is not interested breaking all bonds if he doesn't have to. And there's no indication he NEEDS to break this one.

And in the countries where people took the "The Dragon breaks all bonds" more seriously, like Tarabon, Arad Doman and Ghealdan, were much more damaged than the others where people didn't declare themselves Dragonsworn en masse.

 

Sorry the Amyrlin is head of one city state,nothing more nothing less..it does not matter in the big scheme of things if Tar Valon get's destroyed. No one cares except the AS.

The hundreds of thousands non-Aes Sedai who live in Tar Valon strongly disagree with you. Not to mention that it's the biggest commercial and financial centre in Randland. But who cares, right, those arrogant Aes Sedai has to be punished at all costs...

Is Tar Valon more important than the Seachan who controls vastly more areas..including an entire continent bigger than Randland?Both are not as important as the world..Tar Valon can fall into the sea and the world will live on. Rand fails and it is all over.

You are trolling, right? Your reply has almost nothing to do with what I wrote. I never said that Tar Valon is more important than Seanchan or the Dragon, just that a lot of people will care if it gets destroyed.

 

Your argument is like saying that nobody will care if London gets destroyed, because the rest of Europe is bigger and more important. It's complete nonsense.

[XXX]

Actually my argument is like the mayor of London trying to boss around Jesus who has returned to save the world.

 

Sounds ridiculous does it not...

[David Selig]

Yes, but that's quite different from "Nobody will care if London/Tar Valon was destroyed".