Least Favorite Character

[Maleshub]

Sutt that is not fair I have proved you and others wrong on more than one occasion as for quotes it has nothing to do with anything but my laziness it is too much work. you want me to start another thread with quotes Just let me be free for a while and I'll give you al the quotes you want. lol @ Theodril I have never said that I hate eggy but she is stupid and stupidity always irritates me there is a diffrnc between being irritated and hating

 

Another Lol ... One of the main anti-Egwene arguments is that she is too Mary Sue with everyone around her suffering from stupidity spells, making her look like a genius. But your statement, Muddasssir, is the opposite of that!

 

By the end of AMoL, you "might" find Egwene less irritating .

how bout this one?

"What motion are we standing for?"

"An important one," Saerin said.

"well, I suppose I'll stand for it, then." (Doesine)

"As will I" Yukiri said.

"The lesser consensus is given, it seems," Saerin said. ...

"No!" Saroiya said, slimbing to her feet. "Don't you see? He is a king!... You'ver just given the Amyrlin sole responsibility for dealing with the Dragon Reborn!"

 

you can't tell me that doesn't show mary sueness, that two sitters would walk into a meeting and automatically vote in favour of what she wanted, barely giving her the lesser consensus

 

What I was trying to convey is that Muddasssir was saying Egwene is stupid; and I replied that a major sticking point against her is that she is made to look like a genius by the sudden stupidity of other people around her, not her own stupidity. Egwene is a genius because other people around her act stupidly.

 

Anyway, it was a small light-hearted banter not intended to fuel another Egwene flame!

[muddasssir]

My point exactly Theodril She is so stupid that to make her look good they have to destroy the entire story line. They have to dumb down everyone so much so that it seems that she is dealing with imbeciles. Take the example given above. It was completely out of left field with no justification or foreshadowing. I mean Romanda is almost the oldest Aes sedai alive and this upstart from a village beats her silly. I mean she has to be at least couple of centuries old and she has been an Aes Sedai most of it. Again Aes Sedai Are rumored to have invented the great game. Try to put all of it together and you have a woman who has been at it for more than two hundred years against someone who is about 20 and our dear old eggy makes her look stupid at every turn. Where her level of smartness is that she thinks that Rand wants her to stop him from breaking seals. I mean everyone talks about textual evidence. is there any evidence that supports this assertion? I am not arguing what will happen in their confrontation. I am just trying to show that how dumb she is.

[Suttree]

Where her level of smartness is that she thinks that Rand wants her to stop him from breaking seals. I mean everyone talks about textual evidence.

 

But that is exactly what some people complain about. The AS are dumbed down for Egwene with very blunt plot work, the same is then done to her(she gets dumbed down) when Rand comes into the WT for the meeting. Unfortunately this happens all too often in TGS and ToM when characters come into conflict.

 

Btw just so it's clear Mudd. When people ask for textual evidence to support opinion they are referring to fellow posters not the characters in text.

[Maleshub]

My point exactly Theodril She is so stupid that to make her look good they have to destroy the entire story line. They have to dumb down everyone so much so that it seems that she is dealing with imbeciles. Take the example given above. It was completely out of left field with no justification or foreshadowing. I mean Romanda is almost the oldest Aes sedai alive and this upstart from a village beats her silly. I mean she has to be at least couple of centuries old and she has been an Aes Sedai most of it. Again Aes Sedai Are rumored to have invented the great game. Try to put all of it together and you have a woman who has been at it for more than two hundred years against someone who is about 20 and our dear old eggy makes her look stupid at every turn. Where her level of smartness is that she thinks that Rand wants her to stop him from breaking seals. I mean everyone talks about textual evidence. is there any evidence that supports this assertion? I am not arguing what will happen in their confrontation. I am just trying to show that how dumb she is.

 

Kiss a goat on mother's day! This is turning into another Egwene thingie!

 

A few things to remember in Egwene's relationship to other Aes Sedai:

- She is the Amyrlin! the Boss, the top-ranking official, the one who gives orders.

- Aes Sedai have sworn to obey her according to Tower law and customs.

- She holds authority over all of them, regardless of age; and they defer to her.

- Egwene has the majority of tower initiates strongly behind her, all novices and accepted and a good chunk of Aes Sedai.

- Egwene just cleansed the WT of the Black Ajah and has discovered Traveling and the making of Cuendillar.

 

And the WT is just reunited after its first civil war; and it needs a strong Amyrlin. Anyone, including the Hall, seen to be trying to undermine the Amyrlin with Tarmon Gaidon about to break out and the Dragon Reborn loose on the world would not be very popular in the WT. The Tower cannot afford further bickering and Daes Dae'mar. They need to rebuild and redefine their role and purpose in the world. And that requires standing behind the Amyrlin and supporting her.

[XoMeltdownoX]

Mudd: far be for me to defend Egwene, as i can not stand her character, but she is not stupid. Far from it. Since the beginning of the series she has been shown to be a very bright girl. Yes her political enemies have been dumbed down, but that does not mean she is stupid, just the plot line.

[avernite]

Meh.

 

I think it was pretty good the first time around, managing to trick the rebel Hall into declaring war. Making use of other peoples' arrogance to trick them into using an obscure law? Smart.

Second time around, though, they should've all been ten times as suspicious.

 

Annoying people: Valda. He was necessary to get Galad into place, I suppose, but really... Niall would have been so much better as LCC against the Seanchan.

[Maleshub]

Meh.

 

1- I think it was pretty good the first time around, managing to trick the rebel Hall into declaring war. Making use of other peoples' arrogance to trick them into using an obscure law? Smart.

Second time around, though, they should've all been ten times as suspicious.

 

2- Annoying people: Valda. He was necessary to get Galad into place, I suppose, but really... Niall would have been so much better as LCC against the Seanchan.

 

1- Or you can look at it this way: They should not have been stupid enough to go back to their politicking, Daes Dae'mar, and pulling the same stupid stunts that threw the WT in turmoil. It was a time of healing and rebuilding with dangers surrounding the WT from within (Mesaana) and without (Seanchan); yet the Hall was being really dense about it all.

 

It is no surprise that the select few Aes Sedai who are helping Egwene hunt Mesaana (a Foresaken hiding INSIDE the Tower) would stand to support her in the Hall in such a manner. They have a more important task at hand than some Romanda-Lelaine inspired childish maneuvering.

 

2- Valda was an annoying criminal! He killed Niall and raped Morgase! But Niall was behind the Dragonsword plagues in many countries. He was idiotically sowing chaos and openly undermining Rand (contacts with rebels in Tear and maybe Cairhien).

[999134]

Was glad to read that other people hated Faile as much as I did, if I had to pick my next one, perhaps Elayne.

 

Least favourite male character is a more difficult one, probably Gawyn but often found Perrins parts comparably dull.

[Smilingjack]

Cadsuane is my least favorite character. It is mostly due to the fact, that she never understands, that she should help Rand, rather than manipulate him.

Her very annoying insistence, that swearing is unacceptable. The fact that she doesnt understand that to the only way for Rand to trust her, is for her to trust him and show herself trustworthy.

 

Rand never realises why he needs her, and she never makes it clear to him (though he really should have been able to figure it out). He only knows, that he needs her, and that is the only reason he accepts to keep her close.

 

The only thing Cadsuane manages, is to make Rand frustrated and, in some cases, harder.

HOW on earth, can you teach someone to laugh and cry again, by insisting they be civil and stop swearing? It makes no sence.

 

The worst thing about her is, that she is so extremely manipulating. Her intentions are good, but GOOD GOD, for all her arrogance, she fails in her mission so massively. Can she not understand, that if you could control / guilde the Dragon Reborn too easily, he would have turned to shadow long ago.

 

The way she wraps Tam in flows of air, infuriated me so much! I was glad that Tam put her in her place, but the fact that she demands civility from others, and then uses the power to browbeat a person like Tam (whose son almost just killed him, and should be completely excused for his anger), is such a display of doublestandard.. ARGH! I want to see her bottom smacked!!!

 

The other person that truely angers me, is Elayne. I can accept her mostly. But her acceptance of Egwenes completely lacking arguments, that the seals must not be broken. The fact that Egwene, and Elayne even more so, never cosider the fact, that it is possible that Rand is correct, is very annoying. Elayne can feel how Rand has changed, but he is completely ready to oppose Rand, rather than waiting to condemn his plan, before she knows the reasons.

 

Egwene... well. I dont like her really. She thinks she knows Rand.. but nothing could be further from the truth. She knows parts of his person, but the conclusions she draw from what she knows, are so terribly wrong.

At some point, she implies, that Rands hardness and rage, had always been a part of him, is so wrong. Rands rage and hardness, comes from him trying to become something he is not, from trying to cut off his emotions so that he cant hurt.

 

Nyneave and Morraine, are my most favorite female characters. Women who change so much throughout the books. Morraine who lays down her pride completely, by swearing to Rand. I find that extemely admirable, since so few, if any, has ever done it in WoT. I truely came to like her, after she swore to Rand. I never really disliked her, but she has become the epitome of true strength for me.

 

Nyneave has become so amazing. How she puts forth the argument, that Aes Sedai put the White Tower before the needs of the people they claim to serve. How she stands up to Tuon, and defends Mat and speak so well of him. True, it may have been the pattern or ta'veren that causes her to say it, but I do not doubt that she meant what she said. She develops into an amazing character that has much depth. She is can no longer simply be defined as, stubborn, angry and hypocritical, but as a thoughtfull, genuine, trustworthy, caring, strong and loving character, with a strong temper ;).

 

Min is another character I like. Obviously she isnt completely realistic, but she is how she is described. A woman who has thrown her heart at a mans feet, completely. Everything she does, everything she fights for, is Rand and his survival. That has become her sole personal goal. It is a completely romantic sentiment, and the depth of a character suffers from it.. but I still like her.

 

Aviendha has developed so little throughout the books. I must admit I dislike her greatly. She makes early Nyneave seem biddable. Her stubbornness is unmatched! But I expect her character to develop in the last book, following her visit to Rhuidian. Atleast I hope so.

 

I can never really figure out, if I hate Faile. I dislike her.. mm yes. But I think that Perrin may be worse. Good GOD! The reason that Faile becomes so extremely annoying, is because Perrin is such a weakling! SPANK THAT WOMAN, BURN YOU! Show her who is the man! Pathetic weakling Perrin is, when it comes to women.

 

These are my opinions ofcourse.. don't flame me too much :).

 

My favorite character? I gues the one I personally find the most sympathetic, is Thom! While I probably wouldnt like Rand as a person, atleast not Hard and Dark Rand, he is a very unique main character. Many characters in fantasy novels, feel superficial. Have you ever read Eragon (Inheritence Cycle), Tanis (Dragonlance) or Drizzt (forgotten Realms)... those characters can be so annoyingly.. lame. Nothing is worse, that a completely good main character. Eventhough Tanis was said to be of both dark and light, he really only was good.. and a weakling. (No flaming plz!)

 

TL:DR: I dislike Casuane and Aviendha. Also Elayne, Gawyn, Egwene to a lesser degree.

[TheAngryDruid]

Well, if I had to rank them. Going through my re-read, and I'm on Winter's Heart, so it may change.

 

1. Tuon. And it isn't even close.

2. Elaida. OK, maybe it is close.

3. Gawyn. So bad, for so long. Still, at least he turned it around in ToM.

4. Galad. Ditto. And ditto.

5. Liandrin. No redeeming qualities whatsoever.

[muddasssir]

Cadsuane is my least favorite character. It is mostly due to the fact, that she never understands, that she should help Rand, rather than manipulate him.

Her very annoying insistence, that swearing is unacceptable. The fact that she doesnt understand that to the only way for Rand to trust her, is for her to trust him and show herself trustworthy.

 

Rand never realises why he needs her, and she never makes it clear to him (though he really should have been able to figure it out). He only knows, that he needs her, and that is the only reason he accepts to keep her close.

 

The only thing Cadsuane manages, is to make Rand frustrated and, in some cases, harder.

HOW on earth, can you teach someone to laugh and cry again, by insisting they be civil and stop swearing? It makes no sence.

 

The worst thing about her is, that she is so extremely manipulating. Her intentions are good, but GOOD GOD, for all her arrogance, she fails in her mission so massively. Can she not understand, that if you could control / guilde the Dragon Reborn too easily, he would have turned to shadow long ago.

 

The way she wraps Tam in flows of air, infuriated me so much! I was glad that Tam put her in her place, but the fact that she demands civility from others, and then uses the power to browbeat a person like Tam (whose son almost just killed him, and should be completely excused for his anger), is such a display of doublestandard.. ARGH! I want to see her bottom smacked!!!

 

The other person that truely angers me, is Elayne. I can accept her mostly. But her acceptance of Egwenes completely lacking arguments, that the seals must not be broken. The fact that Egwene, and Elayne even more so, never cosider the fact, that it is possible that Rand is correct, is very annoying. Elayne can feel how Rand has changed, but he is completely ready to oppose Rand, rather than waiting to condemn his plan, before she knows the reasons.

 

Egwene... well. I dont like her really. She thinks she knows Rand.. but nothing could be further from the truth. She knows parts of his person, but the conclusions she draw from what she knows, are so terribly wrong.

At some point, she implies, that Rands hardness and rage, had always been a part of him, is so wrong. Rands rage and hardness, comes from him trying to become something he is not, from trying to cut off his emotions so that he cant hurt.

 

Nyneave and Morraine, are my most favorite female characters. Women who change so much throughout the books. Morraine who lays down her pride completely, by swearing to Rand. I find that extemely admirable, since so few, if any, has ever done it in WoT. I truely came to like her, after she swore to Rand. I never really disliked her, but she has become the epitome of true strength for me.

 

Nyneave has become so amazing. How she puts forth the argument, that Aes Sedai put the White Tower before the needs of the people they claim to serve. How she stands up to Tuon, and defends Mat and speak so well of him. True, it may have been the pattern or ta'veren that causes her to say it, but I do not doubt that she meant what she said. She develops into an amazing character that has much depth. She is can no longer simply be defined as, stubborn, angry and hypocritical, but as a thoughtfull, genuine, trustworthy, caring, strong and loving character, with a strong temper ;).

 

Min is another character I like. Obviously she isnt completely realistic, but she is how she is described. A woman who has thrown her heart at a mans feet, completely. Everything she does, everything she fights for, is Rand and his survival. That has become her sole personal goal. It is a completely romantic sentiment, and the depth of a character suffers from it.. but I still like her.

 

Aviendha has developed so little throughout the books. I must admit I dislike her greatly. She makes early Nyneave seem biddable. Her stubbornness is unmatched! But I expect her character to develop in the last book, following her visit to Rhuidian. Atleast I hope so.

 

I can never really figure out, if I hate Faile. I dislike her.. mm yes. But I think that Perrin may be worse. Good GOD! The reason that Faile becomes so extremely annoying, is because Perrin is such a weakling! SPANK THAT WOMAN, BURN YOU! Show her who is the man! Pathetic weakling Perrin is, when it comes to women.

 

These are my opinions ofcourse.. don't flame me too much :).

 

My favorite character? I gues the one I personally find the most sympathetic, is Thom! While I probably wouldnt like Rand as a person, atleast not Hard and Dark Rand, he is a very unique main character. Many characters in fantasy novels, feel superficial. Have you ever read Eragon (Inheritence Cycle), Tanis (Dragonlance) or Drizzt (forgotten Realms)... those characters can be so annoyingly.. lame. Nothing is worse, that a completely good main character. Eventhough Tanis was said to be of both dark and light, he really only was good.. and a weakling. (No flaming plz!)

 

TL:DR: I dislike Casuane and Aviendha. Also Elayne, Gawyn, Egwene to a lesser degree.

that last one about Perrin was really heart felt wasn't it but there was another scene in the book when faile returned with Deven riders or was it the other ones anyway a young kid came to Perrin and tells him that girls are horrible and he gives a long wind about how somethings will remain the same but he will eventually get to like the girls. From your irritation you are not bmarried are you? neither are you in a serious relationship. you will learn lol another quot for you "women are like Sun you cannot live without it but they extract a price".

[Apples First]

I got bored, so I made mine into a band

 

***

The song is called 'Nobody Likes Us' and is by...

 

The Trakand Trio ft. Elaida (guitar: since when wasn't the Red Ajah into Death Metal, I mean comeon... red?), Tuon (drums: recently, I have been seeing many a bald drummer) Egwene (she can dance like a BIRD!! Isn't that right, Perrin?), Faile (choreographer: she knows the sa'sara!), Areina Treehill (backing vocalists)

 

***

 

 

OMG! Just saw this!!! -----> AWESOME

[Smilingjack]

Cadsuane is my least favorite character. It is mostly due to the fact, that she never understands, that she should help Rand, rather than manipulate him.

Her very annoying insistence, that swearing is unacceptable. The fact that she doesnt understand that to the only way for Rand to trust her, is for her to trust him and show herself trustworthy.

 

Rand never realises why he needs her, and she never makes it clear to him (though he really should have been able to figure it out). He only knows, that he needs her, and that is the only reason he accepts to keep her close.

 

The only thing Cadsuane manages, is to make Rand frustrated and, in some cases, harder.

HOW on earth, can you teach someone to laugh and cry again, by insisting they be civil and stop swearing? It makes no sence.

 

The worst thing about her is, that she is so extremely manipulating. Her intentions are good, but GOOD GOD, for all her arrogance, she fails in her mission so massively. Can she not understand, that if you could control / guilde the Dragon Reborn too easily, he would have turned to shadow long ago.

 

The way she wraps Tam in flows of air, infuriated me so much! I was glad that Tam put her in her place, but the fact that she demands civility from others, and then uses the power to browbeat a person like Tam (whose son almost just killed him, and should be completely excused for his anger), is such a display of doublestandard.. ARGH! I want to see her bottom smacked!!!

 

The other person that truely angers me, is Elayne. I can accept her mostly. But her acceptance of Egwenes completely lacking arguments, that the seals must not be broken. The fact that Egwene, and Elayne even more so, never cosider the fact, that it is possible that Rand is correct, is very annoying. Elayne can feel how Rand has changed, but he is completely ready to oppose Rand, rather than waiting to condemn his plan, before she knows the reasons.

 

Egwene... well. I dont like her really. She thinks she knows Rand.. but nothing could be further from the truth. She knows parts of his person, but the conclusions she draw from what she knows, are so terribly wrong.

At some point, she implies, that Rands hardness and rage, had always been a part of him, is so wrong. Rands rage and hardness, comes from him trying to become something he is not, from trying to cut off his emotions so that he cant hurt.

 

Nyneave and Morraine, are my most favorite female characters. Women who change so much throughout the books. Morraine who lays down her pride completely, by swearing to Rand. I find that extemely admirable, since so few, if any, has ever done it in WoT. I truely came to like her, after she swore to Rand. I never really disliked her, but she has become the epitome of true strength for me.

 

Nyneave has become so amazing. How she puts forth the argument, that Aes Sedai put the White Tower before the needs of the people they claim to serve. How she stands up to Tuon, and defends Mat and speak so well of him. True, it may have been the pattern or ta'veren that causes her to say it, but I do not doubt that she meant what she said. She develops into an amazing character that has much depth. She is can no longer simply be defined as, stubborn, angry and hypocritical, but as a thoughtfull, genuine, trustworthy, caring, strong and loving character, with a strong temper ;).

 

Min is another character I like. Obviously she isnt completely realistic, but she is how she is described. A woman who has thrown her heart at a mans feet, completely. Everything she does, everything she fights for, is Rand and his survival. That has become her sole personal goal. It is a completely romantic sentiment, and the depth of a character suffers from it.. but I still like her.

 

Aviendha has developed so little throughout the books. I must admit I dislike her greatly. She makes early Nyneave seem biddable. Her stubbornness is unmatched! But I expect her character to develop in the last book, following her visit to Rhuidian. Atleast I hope so.

 

I can never really figure out, if I hate Faile. I dislike her.. mm yes. But I think that Perrin may be worse. Good GOD! The reason that Faile becomes so extremely annoying, is because Perrin is such a weakling! SPANK THAT WOMAN, BURN YOU! Show her who is the man! Pathetic weakling Perrin is, when it comes to women.

 

These are my opinions ofcourse.. don't flame me too much :).

 

My favorite character? I gues the one I personally find the most sympathetic, is Thom! While I probably wouldnt like Rand as a person, atleast not Hard and Dark Rand, he is a very unique main character. Many characters in fantasy novels, feel superficial. Have you ever read Eragon (Inheritence Cycle), Tanis (Dragonlance) or Drizzt (forgotten Realms)... those characters can be so annoyingly.. lame. Nothing is worse, that a completely good main character. Eventhough Tanis was said to be of both dark and light, he really only was good.. and a weakling. (No flaming plz!)

 

TL:DR: I dislike Casuane and Aviendha. Also Elayne, Gawyn, Egwene to a lesser degree.

that last one about Perrin was really heart felt wasn't it but there was another scene in the book when faile returned with Deven riders or was it the other ones anyway a young kid came to Perrin and tells him that girls are horrible and he gives a long wind about how somethings will remain the same but he will eventually get to like the girls. From your irritation you are not bmarried are you? neither are you in a serious relationship. you will learn lol another quot for you "women are like Sun you cannot live without it but they extract a price".

 

Wuaw, Im not sure how you gather that from what I said about Perrin. I am in a relationship, and have been for a 4 years now, hopefully we will marry. Either way... I cant really disagree with your quote, but I am puzzled how you managed to draw those conclusions from my post. As for Perrin and Faile... Faile wants Perrin to yell at her (or well, to stand up for himself), and probably give a little spanking.

[Suttree]

Wuaw, Im not sure how you gather that from what I said about Perrin. I am in a relationship, and have been for a 4 years now, hopefully we will marry. Either way... I cant really disagree with your quote, but I am puzzled how you managed to draw those conclusions from my post.

 

Trust me mate, on this and most other topics you are not the only one.

[Mr Ares]

Cadsuane is my least favorite character. It is mostly due to the fact, that she never understands, that she should help Rand, rather than manipulate him.

Her very annoying insistence, that swearing is unacceptable. The fact that she doesnt understand that to the only way for Rand to trust her, is for her to trust him and show herself trustworthy.

 

Rand never realises why he needs her, and she never makes it clear to him (though he really should have been able to figure it out). He only knows, that he needs her, and that is the only reason he accepts to keep her close.

 

The only thing Cadsuane manages, is to make Rand frustrated and, in some cases, harder.

HOW on earth, can you teach someone to laugh and cry again, by insisting they be civil and stop swearing? It makes no sence.

 

The worst thing about her is, that she is so extremely manipulating. Her intentions are good, but GOOD GOD, for all her arrogance, she fails in her mission so massively. Can she not understand, that if you could control / guilde the Dragon Reborn too easily, he would have turned to shadow long ago.

 

The way she wraps Tam in flows of air, infuriated me so much! I was glad that Tam put her in her place, but the fact that she demands civility from others, and then uses the power to browbeat a person like Tam (whose son almost just killed him, and should be completely excused for his anger), is such a display of doublestandard.. ARGH! I want to see her bottom smacked!!!

Cadsuane wrapping Tam up in flows of Air is decidedly out of character for her. To an extent, it could be considered a result of her frustrations, but Sanderson has a distinct tendency to make one person look bad in order to make another look better, and so it is here. Cadsuane has to be a bully for Tam to call her one. Usually, she is a very adaptable woman. Her treatment of Rand is not typical of her treatment of everyone, it is specific to him. She does try to help him, not simply manipulate him. Rand took a turn for the worse not as a result of anything she did, but due to factors entirely out of her hands. And ultimately, she succeeded. Things did not go to plan, her success was due to accident in a large part, but her goal was achieved.

[muddasssir]

Ok if you are in a relationship. You have never felt like banging your head in a wall. you wanted to s a movie or do something else and did not do it because your partner did not want you to do it. Last minute changes in plans or anything like that if you have than you cannot ask Perrin to spank Faile or anything and if you tell me that it has never happened to you and she understands everything you say and do. Politely I refuse to believe you.

[Smilingjack]

Ok if you are in a relationship. You have never felt like banging your head in a wall. you wanted to s a movie or do something else and did not do it because your partner did not want you to do it. Last minute changes in plans or anything like that if you have than you cannot ask Perrin to spank Faile or anything and if you tell me that it has never happened to you and she understands everything you say and do. Politely I refuse to believe you.

 

I have no idea what you refuse to believe. So refuse all you want. Either way, lets stay on topic.

[Smilingjack]

Cadsuane is my least favorite character. It is mostly due to the fact, that she never understands, that she should help Rand, rather than manipulate him.

Her very annoying insistence, that swearing is unacceptable. The fact that she doesnt understand that to the only way for Rand to trust her, is for her to trust him and show herself trustworthy.

 

Rand never realises why he needs her, and she never makes it clear to him (though he really should have been able to figure it out). He only knows, that he needs her, and that is the only reason he accepts to keep her close.

 

The only thing Cadsuane manages, is to make Rand frustrated and, in some cases, harder.

HOW on earth, can you teach someone to laugh and cry again, by insisting they be civil and stop swearing? It makes no sence.

 

The worst thing about her is, that she is so extremely manipulating. Her intentions are good, but GOOD GOD, for all her arrogance, she fails in her mission so massively. Can she not understand, that if you could control / guilde the Dragon Reborn too easily, he would have turned to shadow long ago.

 

The way she wraps Tam in flows of air, infuriated me so much! I was glad that Tam put her in her place, but the fact that she demands civility from others, and then uses the power to browbeat a person like Tam (whose son almost just killed him, and should be completely excused for his anger), is such a display of doublestandard.. ARGH! I want to see her bottom smacked!!!

Cadsuane wrapping Tam up in flows of Air is decidedly out of character for her. To an extent, it could be considered a result of her frustrations, but Sanderson has a distinct tendency to make one person look bad in order to make another look better, and so it is here. Cadsuane has to be a bully for Tam to call her one. Usually, she is a very adaptable woman. Her treatment of Rand is not typical of her treatment of everyone, it is specific to him. She does try to help him, not simply manipulate him. Rand took a turn for the worse not as a result of anything she did, but due to factors entirely out of her hands. And ultimately, she succeeded. Things did not go to plan, her success was due to accident in a large part, but her goal was achieved.

 

That is true to some extent. But I must admit, I got so frustrated on how Cadsuane went about her work. I wish I had seen some more "open cards" or something like "A conversation with the Dragon" between Cadsuane and Rand. They never really got to trust each other. And while Rand was difficult, I just dont want to give Cadsuane credit for Rands transformation, unless she succeded by failing.

 

Either way, I think it is appropriate what Rand thinks: He wished he knew what she was supposed to teach him, other than to grind his teeth.

The entire relationship between them is one massive frustration, for the reader also.

 

Edit: I will say though, you are most likely correct. I am letting my emotions run away with me :). Can't help it.

[Luckers]

Cadsuane is my least favorite character. It is mostly due to the fact, that she never understands, that she should help Rand, rather than manipulate him.

Her very annoying insistence, that swearing is unacceptable. The fact that she doesnt understand that to the only way for Rand to trust her, is for her to trust him and show herself trustworthy.

 

Rand never realises why he needs her, and she never makes it clear to him (though he really should have been able to figure it out). He only knows, that he needs her, and that is the only reason he accepts to keep her close.

 

The only thing Cadsuane manages, is to make Rand frustrated and, in some cases, harder.

HOW on earth, can you teach someone to laugh and cry again, by insisting they be civil and stop swearing? It makes no sence.

 

The worst thing about her is, that she is so extremely manipulating. Her intentions are good, but GOOD GOD, for all her arrogance, she fails in her mission so massively. Can she not understand, that if you could control / guilde the Dragon Reborn too easily, he would have turned to shadow long ago.

 

The way she wraps Tam in flows of air, infuriated me so much! I was glad that Tam put her in her place, but the fact that she demands civility from others, and then uses the power to browbeat a person like Tam (whose son almost just killed him, and should be completely excused for his anger), is such a display of doublestandard.. ARGH! I want to see her bottom smacked!!!

Cadsuane wrapping Tam up in flows of Air is decidedly out of character for her. To an extent, it could be considered a result of her frustrations, but Sanderson has a distinct tendency to make one person look bad in order to make another look better, and so it is here. Cadsuane has to be a bully for Tam to call her one. Usually, she is a very adaptable woman. Her treatment of Rand is not typical of her treatment of everyone, it is specific to him. She does try to help him, not simply manipulate him. Rand took a turn for the worse not as a result of anything she did, but due to factors entirely out of her hands. And ultimately, she succeeded. Things did not go to plan, her success was due to accident in a large part, but her goal was achieved.

 

That is true to some extent. But I must admit, I got so frustrated on how Cadsuane went about her work. I wish I had seen some more "open cards" or something like "A conversation with the Dragon" between Cadsuane and Rand. They never really got to trust each other. And while Rand was difficult, I just dont want to give Cadsuane credit for Rands transformation, unless she succeded by failing.

 

Either way, I think it is appropriate what Rand thinks: He wished he knew what she was supposed to teach him, other than to grind his teeth.

The entire relationship between them is one massive frustration, for the reader also.

 

Edit: I will say though, you are most likely correct. I am letting my emotions run away with me :). Can't help it.

 

I think Brandon shot himself in the foot with the resolution to Cadsuane and Rand's arc. There was potential there for some really great moments, instead he went for the cheap and easy carthartic release.

[Suttree]

Cadsuane is my least favorite character. It is mostly due to the fact, that she never understands, that she should help Rand, rather than manipulate him.

Her very annoying insistence, that swearing is unacceptable. The fact that she doesnt understand that to the only way for Rand to trust her, is for her to trust him and show herself trustworthy.

 

Rand never realises why he needs her, and she never makes it clear to him (though he really should have been able to figure it out). He only knows, that he needs her, and that is the only reason he accepts to keep her close.

 

The only thing Cadsuane manages, is to make Rand frustrated and, in some cases, harder.

HOW on earth, can you teach someone to laugh and cry again, by insisting they be civil and stop swearing? It makes no sence.

 

The worst thing about her is, that she is so extremely manipulating. Her intentions are good, but GOOD GOD, for all her arrogance, she fails in her mission so massively. Can she not understand, that if you could control / guilde the Dragon Reborn too easily, he would have turned to shadow long ago.

 

The way she wraps Tam in flows of air, infuriated me so much! I was glad that Tam put her in her place, but the fact that she demands civility from others, and then uses the power to browbeat a person like Tam (whose son almost just killed him, and should be completely excused for his anger), is such a display of doublestandard.. ARGH! I want to see her bottom smacked!!!

Cadsuane wrapping Tam up in flows of Air is decidedly out of character for her. To an extent, it could be considered a result of her frustrations, but Sanderson has a distinct tendency to make one person look bad in order to make another look better, and so it is here. Cadsuane has to be a bully for Tam to call her one. Usually, she is a very adaptable woman. Her treatment of Rand is not typical of her treatment of everyone, it is specific to him. She does try to help him, not simply manipulate him. Rand took a turn for the worse not as a result of anything she did, but due to factors entirely out of her hands. And ultimately, she succeeded. Things did not go to plan, her success was due to accident in a large part, but her goal was achieved.

 

That is true to some extent. But I must admit, I got so frustrated on how Cadsuane went about her work. I wish I had seen some more "open cards" or something like "A conversation with the Dragon" between Cadsuane and Rand. They never really got to trust each other. And while Rand was difficult, I just dont want to give Cadsuane credit for Rands transformation, unless she succeded by failing.

 

Either way, I think it is appropriate what Rand thinks: He wished he knew what she was supposed to teach him, other than to grind his teeth.

The entire relationship between them is one massive frustration, for the reader also.

 

Edit: I will say though, you are most likely correct. I am letting my emotions run away with me :). Can't help it.

 

I think Brandon shot himself in the foot with the resolution to Cadsuane and Rand's arc. There was potential there for some really great moments, instead he went for the cheap and easy carthartic release.

 

Can not + that statement enough. Pretty frustrating...

[Maleshub]

I think Brandon shot himself in the foot with the resolution to Cadsuane and Rand's arc. There was potential there for some really great moments, instead he went for the cheap and easy carthartic release.

 

Can not + that statement enough. Pretty frustrating...

 

My impression is that Cadsuane was "done" after Veins of Gold. She achieved her purpose and fulfilled her mission. It seems that Rand doesn't need her anymore. She'll be in support-mode till the end and might go out in a glorious and heroic battle. But the main purpose, teaching Ashaman that they were men, is over.

[Luckers]

I think Brandon shot himself in the foot with the resolution to Cadsuane and Rand's arc. There was potential there for some really great moments, instead he went for the cheap and easy carthartic release.

 

Can not + that statement enough. Pretty frustrating...

 

My impression is that Cadsuane was "done" after Veins of Gold. She achieved her purpose and fulfilled her mission. It seems that Rand doesn't need her anymore. She'll be in support-mode till the end and might go out in a glorious and heroic battle. But the main purpose, teaching Ashaman that they were men, is over.

 

My impression is that that is precisely how Brandon looks at it. I'm just saying its sad because he could have done some amazing things with post-VoG Rand and Cadsuane (and in about the same amount of words as what he does have).

[muddasssir]

it is just the matter of perspective Luckers.We have lots of moments like this where we can say the outcome could or should have been different but I guess it is a writer's prerogative and we have to live with it. lol

[Luckers]

it is just the matter of perspective Luckers.We have lots of moments like this where we can say the outcome could or should have been different but I guess it is a writer's prerogative and we have to live with it. lol

 

Yes and no. What Brandon wrote was the bluntest, most obvious, and easiest version of the Cadsuane/Rand resolution, and whilst I have all sorts of ideas about what I would have preferred to see, what I'm saying here is nothing other than that. I'm not angry that what he wrote was different from what I hoped for (I actually hoped for more or less the same sequence of general events, just with specific subtlety rather than Idiot-Cadsuane being an idiot so Puppet-Tam could call her out and Jesus-Rand could speak-from-the-high-place to her)--that as you said is the writers perogative--what I'm angry about was that what he wrote was lazily planned--a lowest common denominator plotwork offering that speaks more to fan gratification than it does to serving the plot. It was, in a word, cheap.

[XoMeltdownoX]

BS has stated that he dislikes her character and I believe that is why she comes off so poorly in the Tam scene.