Three questions about Ta'veren

[DigitalSoul]

1) Do we know of any except Rand, Perrin, Mat and Arthur Hawkwing?

2) We know that Rand is the strongest but do you think that Mat or Perrin is stronger that Arthur Hawkwing was?

3) Is there a difference in ta'veren strenght between Mat and Perrin? Who is the strongest?

[Hopefire]

Jaim Farstrider may have been a ta'veren, if I recall.

[David Selig]

1 Yes - Mabriam en Shereed, a Queen few centuries after the Breaking, who was instrumental in the formation of the Compact of the Ten Nations.

 

2. No, Hawkwing was probably much stronger than mat and perrin

 

3. No idea.

[Durinax]

wasnt rands dad a taveren? He did forge a peace agreement between two clans with blood feuds I believe (and nearly united teh clans)

[DigitalSoul]

wasnt rands dad a taveren? He did forge a peace agreement between two clans with blood feuds I believe (and nearly united teh clans)

 

maybe was just a way to show how great genes rand has=) if he was a taveren he was proabably a quite weak one

[True Source Creator]

^

Rand couldn't have good genes from Tam...since he was an orphan.

[Stitch]

He wasnt talking about Tam.

 

Personally I think that Mat is more Taveren than Perrin (the luck thing shows it best for me), though neither has shown as much strength in that regard as Hawkwing (people said they could sometimes feel the pattern bending around them... the closest we have seen from either of those two is Mat's 'ima gonna win everythin' moments)

[csarmi]

I think that both Mat and Perrin are stronger ta'veren than Arthur Hawkwing was.

[USURP888]

Thom remarked to tuon that Arthur Hawkwing was the strongest Ta'veren who ever lived right? Maybe Rand was stronger than Arthur but I don't think Mat and Perrin are.

[Sid]

Either RJ or BS said Hawkwing was ta'veren more strongly than Mat or Perrin.

 

or maybe just Mat...

Netherlands tour 8 April 2001, Elf Fantasy Fair - Gonzo reporting

 

 

Gonzo: Is Mat really as strongly ta'veren as Hawkwing was?

 

RJ: No.

 

Rand was said to be the strongest ta'veren since Lews Therin Telemon, though I believe it was Moiraine that mentioned it and how she would know is anyone's guess. I get the feeling that Rand is a good deal more strongly ta'veren than Hawkwing was though.

[Stitch]

Any RP character is stronger than Hawkwing was! I can alter the pattern with each keystroke!

 

Objectively speaking I dont believe that we can absolutely determine the scope of their Taveren powers, except perhaps from direct BS or RJ quotes or else if we use as a basis the scope of their purpose within the pattern (if the pattern needs them to be able to do something it makes them taveren, therefore if they need to do more things they are probably more strongly taveren)... That stated Rand has a larger part to play on the Pattern's behalf (in dealing directly with the dark one) than just about anyone we can consider including Hawkwing. On the other hand, can we consider the part that either Mat or Perrin have to play as being more consequential to the pattern than that of Hawkwing in uniting all of Randland and sending his soldiers across the seas? Personally I dont think so.

[Demon_AS]

I'm pretty sure Artur Hawkwing was stronger than Perrin and Mat, who are probably roughly as strongly ta'veren a each other. Rand is the strongest ta'veren ever, as far as I'm aware - stronger than Hawkwing.

 

As for how Perrin and Mat compare to Hawkwing... weaker, but not THAT much weaker. Both Perrin and Mat get what they need, though - just recall Perrin's meeting with Elyas in the first book, a man who disappeared from the world years ago, and how all his skeletons arrived in ToM for him to conquer. And Mat altering chance how he does, as well as yanking Verin half-way across the continent at need (amongst many other things).

[mb]

Verin's comment to Mat in Gathering Storm seems to imply that Mat is/was stronger than Hawkwing.

 

About Rand's dad, taveren-ness I take to not be inherited. I recall various posters quoting Robert Jordan telling that taveren-ness is not from the person's birth.

 

 

At Great Hunt Rand's taverenness was much stronger than Mat's & Perrin's.

I guess Rand's taverenness is still stronger than Mat's & Perrin's.

[DigitalSoul]

Is the dices in Mats head connected to him being a taveren? They started appearing after he was hanged in the aiel waste.

At which points does Perrins tavereness manifest itself? Proabably when the trollocks attacked the two rivers and when the queen of Gheldan swore to him. More?

[Arc]

Is the dices in Mats head connected to him being a taveren? They started appearing after he was hanged in the aiel waste.

At which points does Perrins tavereness manifest itself? Proabably when the trollocks attacked the two rivers and when the queen of Gheldan swore to him. More?

 

In ToM it is stated several times that people are learning more quickly then they normally could in Perrins army. There are more things I supose, like his meeting with the Whitecloaks.

[Mr Ares]

Is the dices in Mats head connected to him being a taveren? They started appearing after he was hanged in the aiel waste.

Mat's super luck and the dice in his head appear not to be ta'veren. The most likely source is Shadar Logoth, although the why remains unclear. Mat notes two increases in his luck - he got luckier after picking up the dagger, and then luckier still after being Healed...from the dagger. Two changes in his luck, both relating to the dagger. The possibility is raised in the books themselves, although Mat is reluctant to consider it, and he also considers his luck separately from his ta'veren (at least in all of RJ's books).

[MasterAblar]

Is the dices in Mats head connected to him being a taveren? They started appearing after he was hanged in the aiel waste.

At which points does Perrins tavereness manifest itself? Proabably when the trollocks attacked the two rivers and when the queen of Gheldan swore to him. More?

 

Loial claims them all to be tavereen as early as book 1 if I remember correctly.

[David Selig]

Is the dices in Mats head connected to him being a taveren? They started appearing after he was hanged in the aiel waste.

At which points does Perrins tavereness manifest itself? Proabably when the trollocks attacked the two rivers and when the queen of Gheldan swore to him. More?

 

Perrin meeting Elyas just when his wolfbrother ability was starting to demonstrate itself was most probably due to ta'veren effect, it's too much of a coincidence otherwise.

[Sid]

Verin even says right out that Perrin's ability to talk the farmers in the area into gathering in Emond's Field was ta'veren at work. Meeting Faile was also, probably.

 

Ta'veren may have allowed Mat to get an extra few answers from the Finn's the first visit, too, which led to swaying 2 immense decisions later ('marrying the DotNM' and 'half the light of the world')